fatness
Footballguy
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Larry Johnson refusing to report to camp (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter fatness
- Start date
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
It's been discussed already, but it's a potentially big enough story, that I'm interested in all new developments.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
IMO, athletes are normally in the wrong in regards to holding out.
This is not one of those cases. I'd hold out too.
This is not one of those cases. I'd hold out too.
dapunisher
Footballguy
I'm with LJ on this one.
Warpig
Footballguy
joffer
Footballguy
do you think the Chiefs should give him $28 mil guaranteed?
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
For what they ask him to do, for what he delivers, and compared to his peers (of which there are precious few) absolutely YES.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
It would be very hard to explain not giving LJ a new deal if I'm GM Carl Peterson. He's in the final year of his contract and is grossly underpaid; there's no principle against renegotiation here because the alternative is having to tag LJ next year and create even more animosity.
duaneok66
Footballguy
has camp started?? If not, then I think this have been discussed already; actually, it won't even matter until the regular season starts . . . LJ missing a few pre season games is no big deal . . .
btw, if Im Peterson, I trade him and spend cap dollars on rebuilding the team . . . LJ isn't a guy that you want as the "face of the franchise" . . . and he's nearing the AARP age for running backs . . .
btw, if Im Peterson, I trade him and spend cap dollars on rebuilding the team . . . LJ isn't a guy that you want as the "face of the franchise" . . . and he's nearing the AARP age for running backs . . .
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Depending on what you could get, I would too. The cap hit wouldn't be huge given his contract.Problem is, what would another team be willing to give up for a disgruntled running back? If all I get in return is a single pick that I'm going to use to try and replace him, it's not worth it.
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Keys Myaths
Pokerguy
What do you guys think the percentages are on a preseason trade, though? 5%?
Gr00vus
Footballguy
There's an easy explanation - he's not in the team's long term plans, for whatever reason (and on field performance not withstanding, Johnson has given them some reasons).
AnonymousBob
Footballguy
Stick it to the man, LJ.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
To what end do the Chiefs benefit from trading Johnson? He's irreplaceable for what they would get back in trade (most likely), is in his prime and deserves more money. They could easily give him a new deal within the parameters of an NFL budget that should still be able to contend. Removing Johnson from the equation could be disastrous on many levels. With changes on the O-line, and the desire to build up a new young QB, the Chiefs could end up shattering Croyle's development and turning the offense so pedestrian that any potential improvements on defense will be obfuscated.
Nookular Power
Footballguy
Amazing. I'd guess that most of the readers on this board will in general not support a guy under contract who's looking to hold-out. I'm one of them. I'm also with those who think that in this case thinks LJ should definitely try and get his money now. What more is there to say than has been said? They work him another year like they did last year, and he's not going to have another shot at this kind of money. As for suggestions they trade him...ask Indy or Seattle how easy it is to trade a top RB looking for big money. There's no way anyone else takes on the contract hassle AND gives up assets/picks for the right to do so. LJs money almost HAS to come from KC.
jonessed
Footballguy
I can't think of anyone off-hand except for maybe Dallas.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Depends on how bad of shape you think the Chiefs are in. And like I said, it would depend on what you could get in return.I view the Chiefs like I did the Raiders in the year after their Super Bowl appearance. They got old fast and refused to start rebuilding with youth, instead trying to make just one more run. The Chiefs are the same way at the corner, o-line, TE, and WR positions.
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Jason Wood
Zoo York
The reason so few NFL trades are ever viewed "equally" is, as you know, because intentions are often transparent. No team is going to race to overwhelm Peterson with an offer for LJ, particularly this late in the offseason. The only thing a team would be willing to do, MAYBE, is trade '08 and '09 picks, which would be hard to explain away if your CP unless you're willing to admit to the fans that the Chiefs need to be worse before they get better.
AnonymousBob
Footballguy
Does anyone other than Carl Peterson believe LJ doesn't deserve more money?
Mr. Peterson
Footballguy
If he holds out for a significant amount of time can Bennett really hold down the job?
jonessed
Footballguy
I imagine he does as well, but that's not the point. He has to decide how much more and what the long-term benefits are. I don't envy his position given where KC stands at the moment.
supermark_28
Footballguy
The LJ owner in my keeper league is currently putting out feelers for a trade.Probably too soon to jump ship but this gets a lot of fantasy owners thinking.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Yep. You don't trade him just to trade him. You have to get something back that makes your team better in the long run.At the same time though, not paying LJ isn't the best way to attract potentially impactful free agents to your squad.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
No way.
phthalatemagic
Footballguy
I can't think of any team that would make a major move like that right now. Who would?
as a Pats fan, I see LJ's move very similar to the Branch holdout last year.
Both LJ and Branch are/were underpaid for their level of performance.
Both had a right to be concerned about career ending injury before garnering a big pay day.
I don't blame either of them for wanting more compensation.
The difference (IMO) is that LJ truly is among the elites at his position whereas Branch, while very good, was not elite.
Both LJ and Branch are/were underpaid for their level of performance.
Both had a right to be concerned about career ending injury before garnering a big pay day.
I don't blame either of them for wanting more compensation.
The difference (IMO) is that LJ truly is among the elites at his position whereas Branch, while very good, was not elite.
The Tahitian Facemask
Footballguy
Being a Packer fan I'm still hoping they get something done here. Obviously they've had interest but it would seem out of charater for Ted Thompson to throw that kind of money at a player, not to mention give up the draft picks it would take, but he's done very little, if anything, to improve the offense. They have plenty of room under the cap. With Favre going out soon, a strong running game could give a young QB (Rodgers?) protection while he develops.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
As was discussed in the Cory Redding thread though, today's "monster deal" is tomorrow's "good contract."There are reports today that Michael Strahan is seriously considering a hold out because he's underpaid. He's owed $1.9mm so one could certainly see his point if he can approximate his normal level of play. Yet, when Strahan last redid his deal, it was the highest ever for a DE in guaranteed money.The league's success and revenue streams are healthy, paying LJ market value makes imminent sense. Is he worth less than Frank Gore? Brian Westbrook? Steven Jackson? Certainly not.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
I think that's the reality of their situation. I don't see them being a super bowl contender any time soon - Johnson will be on the downside of his career most likely if it happens. Is it better to be consistently mediocre with Johnson or get what you can for him now with an eye toward finally getting back to the big game a few years down the road? Tough call, especially when you're trying to sell tickets. The problem is now the market is much smaller for Johnson that it would have been pre-draft day and free agent signings. He could have put a team like Baltimore over the top for instance, probably would have made sense for the Jets too. Now the only real suitor seems to be the Packers.
dapunisher
Footballguy
Exactly. Peterson is in a box, and he has himself to blame for that. To avoid this, he should have started back in Februrary trying either to renegotiate the contract or harvest some cash and high draft picks from teams with a lot of both. Now, he's negotiating from a position of weakness, both with LJ and with other GMs. The Trent Green situation proved that Peterson can play hardball, but it also proved that he doesn't allow the possibility of ending up with nada to deter his unwillingness to blink.
Anytime anyone signs a written contract, they need to abide by that contract. I pour concrete for a living, and if I violated the terms of a contract between me and the homeowner or business,... well I'd be taken to court and the judge would ask me why I violated the contract... no excuses, I'd be in the wrong, and probably be sued. ALL players should think before they sign on the dotted line. Don't wait a few years and then decide they are worth more than the current contract that they signed years ago. That's immature. He should Honor the contract that he SIGNED. Period.
supermark_28
Footballguy
I know the Pack keep getting thrown out there but seriously,what could they offer KC?
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I used to think the same way. But the difference is that you have some recourse if your employer "cuts you from the team" and doesn't fulfill his end of the contract.In the NFL, the money's not guaranteed and a team can cut a player without paying out the contract.So the comparison is a bit apples and oranges.
The Kansas Comet
Footballguy
While LJ's workload the last two seasons has been phenomenal, he hasn't been run into the ground over the course of his college and pro career. For a 27 year-old franchise back, his mileage is relatively low. If the Chiefs wish to give the appearance of a team wanting to contend now and in the near future, there is no way they can justify not signing him to an extension. Trading him or allowing him to hold out tells KC fans, "We're going to try and do this on the cheap. If we lose and get some good draft picks, well, we're fine with that because we didn't really want to contend this year anyway." And it certainly sends the wrong message to potential free agents KC would want to sign - if LJ didn't earn a good contract from them, who could? I can't remember agreeing so much with a holdout in any sport.
AnonymousBob
Footballguy
He's paid less than many backups. He plays a sport and a position that can leave you crippled in your later years. The Chiefs signed him as a backup-he no longer plays that role so why should he be paid as such?Look at it this way-if you were suddenly given a LOT more job responsibilities would you continue to do the job without expecting a pay raise?
LJ does NOT have a of wear-and-tear, as another poster mentioned. I think it's ridiculous to talk about a 27-year old going into his fifth season with fewer than 900 carries as being a high-miler of some kind. And he's gotta get paid. I would hold out if I was him, for sure. $1.9 million is what you pay a nickel corner, not one of the very best RBs in the league.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
A need at RB. It'd have to be draft picks mainly going to KC. Not a good deal for either team I don't think.GB has to know it would take more than Johnson to put them over the top.
dapunisher
Footballguy
It sounds harsh, but your analogy doesn't apply because your ability to pour concrete doesn't: 1) a short-term life span, supported by historical evidence; 2) doesn't uniquely define you to be among the five best in the world at this particular skill; and 3) fill Arrowhead Stadium with thousands of supporters wanting to watch you apply 6-mil poly.
Fullback Fro
yesno
IMHO - LJ will be trade to Dallas for Julius Jones and one of their firsts next year. Dallas will be able to pay the man.
The Tahitian Facemask
Footballguy
KGB and draft picks. Not saying it's fair value, but it's what they have. The first rounders could be fairly high the next couple years but Thompson likes to collect them, not lose them.
no kiddin'!?DAL instantly becomes the NFC SB favorite.LJ firmly entrenches himself as the #2 overall fantasy pick.
I completely understand. But in my opinion,... I would have signed a 1-year contract instead of a multi-year contract knowing that I would have been the starter after that year, or increased workload. After that 1 year, if Priest was still deemed the starter, then I would have signed another 1-year deal, etc,etc. These players are going to have to start thinking before they get pencil-happy.
I understand.
AnonymousBob
Footballguy
I understand your viewpoint but it doesn't happen that way. Teams have most of the leverage. You are an unproven talent-if you want to have even the CHANCE to work for them you have to accept their terms. If contracts were guaranteed (as in baseball) then I would agree it is wrong for a player to hold out. Do you get upset when a team cuts a player? How about when they force a player to restructure a contract? In those cases the team is refusing to honor the contract as well. The players that hold out are simply getting what they can before the team screws them over. It's not pretty but that's the way it is.
ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
The problem with the LJ situation from the Chiefs standpoint isn't really if he's worth the money, he is, but whether it's worth giving all that money when their offense is horrendous and even god himself couldn't make them good.
They aren't one year away from being a legit offense, they are a few years away, and by the time the rest of the offense gets competent and playoff worthy LJ is 29-30.
If the Chiefs didn't have the worst offense in the NFL (even with Johnson) i'd say pay him, but they are so bad i think they need to admit they need to rebuild and get all they can for him now.
LJ's prime is just going to end up wasted in KC.
They aren't one year away from being a legit offense, they are a few years away, and by the time the rest of the offense gets competent and playoff worthy LJ is 29-30.
If the Chiefs didn't have the worst offense in the NFL (even with Johnson) i'd say pay him, but they are so bad i think they need to admit they need to rebuild and get all they can for him now.
LJ's prime is just going to end up wasted in KC.
