Larry Johnson says training camp holdout is possible (1 Viewer)

[CA_7]

Larry Johnson says training camp holdout is possible

Pro Bowl running back sits down with The Star’s Jason Whitlock for an exclusive interview in which Johnson reveals his intent to hold out if the Chiefs don’t give him a new contract before training ca

Question: Do you feel Carl has sold you out?

Johnson: “Not necessarily he sold me out. He’s just a businessman. It’s hard to be close friends with a guy you go to for money. When you’re asking for the kind of money we’re asking for, it’s hard to be the good guy.”

Question: If you hold out, how do you think your teammates will react?

Johnson: “I watched Brian (Waters) go through his ordeal (trying to get a contract). I watched Eddie Kennison, as far as what he was asking. He told me how he approached his deal. I seen what John Tait went through with his deal. At the end of the day, they (my teammates) understand that I deserve this. Tony Gonzalez agreed that I deserve what I get. If I have to hold out, I don’t know how they would view me. You’d have to ask them.”

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/158912-p2.html

 

[JaxBill]

Question: Larry, do you think the average football fan or sportswriters in general understand why you need such a large contract at this time?Johnson: “If they really want it to hit home, look at Earl Campbell. He’s not complaining, but he can barely walk. He’s sitting in wheelchairs. He can’t sit at banquets for a long amount of time before he has to leave. It’s sad to have to watch him go through what he has to go through. You look at me; I don’t want to be like that. But I may end up like him. Who knows? I have to be able to plan for that, plan for my kids. I don’t know if I’m going to be running back and forth taking my kids to soccer practice.”

 

[TheGreatest]

I agree with him holding out. He has been one of the best backs in the league for last couple of years. Has been a workhorse for KC during that time and KC would be in seriuos trouble without him. Also, with all the carries he has been getting, I understand him wanting a new contract so he can get paid before he does get injured. He is severly underpaid and KC needs to pony up some money for this guy. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

[CA_7]

I agree with him holding out. He has been one of the best backs in the league for last couple of years. Has been a workhorse for KC during that time and KC would be in seriuos trouble without him. Also, with all the carries he has been getting, I understand him wanting a new contract so he can get paid before he does get injured. He is severly underpaid and KC needs to pony up some money for this guy. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

I agree as well. I wouldn't be surprised if the Trent Green situation added to this also. Trent was a leader for that team,well liked and am sure most KC players probably feel he was treated poorly by management. I understand these are business decisions but players have to play the game too. KC would be screwed at RB with no LJ so he has some leverage too.

 

[JaxBill]

Countdown to Kevin Ashcraft to appear to tell us all is well with the Chiefs....

 

[burd]

So if he has to settle for 3 mil a year versus 6 mil a year (for example), he may not be able to take care of his kids financially? these players had no problem growing up w/ watered down Kool-Aid and hot dogs and now they can't make ends meet unless they're making multi-million dollars a year? Please!

He should just come clean and say "I want $XXX because I've earned it and deserve it". This whole "I need to make sure my family is financially secure" BS is insulting to anyone w/ half a brain. The guy has already made enough money to live securely ... and that's not even considering the NFL pension he'll someday get. Don't get me wrong, I think he deserves every penny he's asking for (and probably more) because the owner is making a ton of money off of the hard work of the players, but when these million dollar athletes start crying hardship to fans that are a couple of missed paychecks from being penniless, I find it insulting.

 

[dpeease]

IMHO he'll be traded before they give him more money this year. Maybe next year.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

There are rare times when I agree with a player holding out. This is one of them.

He's set to make only $1.7 million this year. For a player of his caliber and importance to his team, that's almost insulting.

They gave him the ball 416 times last year. 416! Add in another 41 catches and the pounding the team asks him to take is deserving of commensurate compensation.

 

[GroveDiesel]

There are rare times when I agree with a player holding out. This is one of them.He's set to make only $1.7 million this year. For a player of his caliber and importance to his team, that's almost insulting.They gave him the ball 416 times last year. 416! Add in another 41 catches and the pounding the team asks him to take is deserving of commensurate compensation.

I'm usually one of the first to say that guys should fulfill the contract that they've signed and quit whining. But he was signed as a backup RB to one of the best in the game. Now they've asked a TON of him and he's delivered while taking a beating. The Chiefs would be incredibly stupid to not pay him. Ty Law is a million years old and yet the Chiefs are paying him $3M this season.

 

[Statorama]

No way at the rate they're paying him now will he be able to 'make it rain' at the clubs. At $1.7 mill he can barely make it drizzle.

 

[az_prof]

I have always believed that the RB production in KC is a product of the system, not the individual RB. I wouldn't pay him that much more. I would give Michael Bennett a chance first. Back in the day Derrick Blaylock did just as well or better than LJ behind that line. Derrick who? That's right. The guy who went to New York and failed to become a starter.

 

[ImTheScientist]

There are rare times when I agree with a player holding out. This is one of them.He's set to make only $1.7 million this year. For a player of his caliber and importance to his team, that's almost insulting.They gave him the ball 416 times last year. 416! Add in another 41 catches and the pounding the team asks him to take is deserving of commensurate compensation.

I do understand that he deserves the money, but why pay someone an insane amount of money when he has peaked (or you feel he has, which Im sure the Cheifs do). He has had an insane amount of carries the last two years and is not getting any younger on a team that is rebuilding. The best thing for both parties would be to trade him, although I doubt there are many teams that would pay him what he wants to get paid.

 

[ImTheScientist]

I have always believed that the RB production in KC is a product of the system, not the individual RB. I wouldn't pay him that much more. I would give Michael Bennett a chance first. Back in the day Derrick Blaylock did just as well or better than LJ behind that line. Derrick who? That's right. The guy who went to New York and failed to become a starter.

I tend to also agree with you. The best test of that will be this year. The line is not what it used to be.

 

[aldelgreco]

here is what florio says.

i think it is interesting that he feels it will be a deion branch situation- long holdout followed by a trade.

Chiefs running back Larry Johnson tells Jason Whitlock of the Kansas City Star that Johnson might be forced to hold out if he doesn't get a new contract by the start of training camp.

"I'm prepared," Johnson told Whitlock. "They [my agent and father] got me saving money. I'm hustling to get more money to put in the bank. They already started setting aside different accounts, if that would have to happen. They're already telling me to be cautious about how I spend, where I go and stuff like that. To make sure that if it goes down like that, then I've got to be able to pace myself so I won't be in trouble."

Johnson said he believes that Chiefs president Carl Peterson is going to "test" him in connection with contract negotiations that could turn contentious quickly -- especially in light of the fact that the Chiefs were making it known earlier this year that Johnson was available via trade.

Johnson's agent, Alvin Keels, attended the interview, and added a few thoughts. Including this one: "The point I'd like to get out," Keels said, "is that if we were to have to hold out, it would be for the sake of good business, not being greedy. I think the picture that is being painted right now in the eyes of the fans is that we're coming into this negotiation being greedy. It's not good business for a player who rushes the ball 416 times in a season, back-to-back Pro Bowl seasons, back-to-back 1,700-yard seasons, back-to-back broken Kansas City Chiefs records, it's not good business for him to come back in and play for $1.7 million. And that's a sensitive area because $1.7 million is a lot more than most people in Kansas City make."

But the real question, as we see it, is whether Johnson is a truly great runner, who will get his yards even with shoddy blocking, or whether his production is the result of the strong offensive lines that the team has enjoyed over the past few years. (But no more.)

Indeed, the retirement of Willie Roaf in 2006 might have directly contributed to that 0.9 yard-per-carry dropoff last season. And with Will Shields now out of the picture, too, there could be another slip in 2007.

And that could be why the Chiefs want to see what Johnson can do with an even weaker wall of blocking before paying him a bunch of money.

Still, we see Johnson's side of it. "If they really want it to hit home, look at Earl Campbell," Johnson said. "He's not complaining, but he can barely walk. He's sitting in wheelchairs. He can't sit at banquets for a long amount of time before he has to leave. It's sad to have to watch him go through what he has to go through. You look at me; I don’t want to be like that. But I may end up like him. Who knows? I have to be able to plan for that, plan for my kids. I don't know if I'm going to be running back and forth taking my kids to soccer practice."

So why should he take another 400-carry punishment in 2007 for only $1.7 million? Though it would have been nice if he had considered this before, you know, signing his contract, the fact that he could be carrying the entire offense on his back this season suggests to us that, in all fairness, an adjustment is necessary.

Thus, our gut feeling on this one is that it could very well be another Deion Branch situation, with a lengthy holdout followed by a trade.

If, that is, there's someone who wants him bad enough to both pay the player and pay his team. If, after all, King Carl demanded a fourth-round pick for a quarterback he no longer needed, Peterson might ask for a Ricky Williams package when it comes to a running back he no longer wants.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

There are rare times when I agree with a player holding out. This is one of them.He's set to make only $1.7 million this year. For a player of his caliber and importance to his team, that's almost insulting.They gave him the ball 416 times last year. 416! Add in another 41 catches and the pounding the team asks him to take is deserving of commensurate compensation.

I do understand that he deserves the money, but why pay someone an insane amount of money when he has peaked (or you feel he has, which Im sure the Cheifs do). He has had an insane amount of carries the last two years and is not getting any younger on a team that is rebuilding. The best thing for both parties would be to trade him, although I doubt there are many teams that would pay him what he wants to get paid.

Personally, if I were GM, I'd pay him to send a message to ALL players currently on my roster and ones CONSIDERING coming to my team as a free agent. The message is "If you perform, you get paid."The current message they're sending, at least in this case, is that "We want to benefit from your talents on the cheap." If I'm a FA, do I want to go to a team like that? If I'm on the roster I have thoughts of "I wonder if they'll milk me like they're milking LJ."

 

[Heinz 57]

Obviously he should be making more. I think that he should holdout for his own sake. On the other hand, I can't blame the Chiefs for trying to get a steal here.. Johnson is to KC as LT is to SD. Hes not just a player on a team, he pretty much is the team (given, a solid O-Line). He deserves the loot.

 

[Loopdog]

i realize this is in the early stages but from all the quotes LJ has come out with, I actually think he's handling this quite well. He's not being pointed or rude. Just basically saying what he thinks he's worth. Everyone in here would take a raise at their job if they did the amount of work equivalent to what LJ is doing for his employer. I hope he gets paid.

 

[Statorama]

This should have all been taken care of weeks ago. I mean, how hard would it be to give the guy a $3 million dollar bonus for his work the last two years and lay out a huge incentive laden contract with a little bump in base pay? Put in a nice bonus if he gets traded.

There's all kinds of ways this could have been handled without the public getting involved.

 

[Heinz 57]

This should have all been taken care of weeks ago. I mean, how hard would it be to give the guy a $3 million dollar bonus for his work the last two years and lay out a huge incentive laden contract with a little bump in base pay? Put in a nice bonus if he gets traded.There's all kinds of ways this could have been handled without the public getting involved.

Your comment on the Drizzle was hilarious.

 

[MrNiceGuy]

I like the timing of this, too. Don't hint at a holdout until after OTA's...so many players talk about holding out even before the draft, thus allowing the team to find time for insurance/replacement.

Smart move, LJ.

 

[Illegal Pants Downfield]

There are rare times when I agree with a player holding out. This is one of them.

He's set to make only $1.7 million this year. For a player of his caliber and importance to his team, that's almost insulting.

They gave him the ball 416 times last year. 416! Add in another 41 catches and the pounding the team asks him to take is deserving of commensurate compensation.

I do understand that he deserves the money, but why pay someone an insane amount of money when he has peaked (or you feel he has, which Im sure the Cheifs do). He has had an insane amount of carries the last two years and is not getting any younger on a team that is rebuilding. The best thing for both parties would be to trade him, although I doubt there are many teams that would pay him what he wants to get paid.

How can you be sure the Chiefs think LJ has peaked as a player?

 

[The Man With No Name]

I have always believed that the RB production in KC is a product of the system, not the individual RB. I wouldn't pay him that much more. I would give Michael Bennett a chance first. Back in the day Derrick Blaylock did just as well or better than LJ behind that line. Derrick who? That's right. The guy who went to New York and failed to become a starter.

Blaylock only had 1 100+ yard game for them, and that was against the worst (32nd ranked) defense in the league.

 

[ImTheScientist]

There are rare times when I agree with a player holding out. This is one of them.

He's set to make only $1.7 million this year. For a player of his caliber and importance to his team, that's almost insulting.

They gave him the ball 416 times last year. 416! Add in another 41 catches and the pounding the team asks him to take is deserving of commensurate compensation.

I do understand that he deserves the money, but why pay someone an insane amount of money when he has peaked (or you feel he has, which Im sure the Cheifs do). He has had an insane amount of carries the last two years and is not getting any younger on a team that is rebuilding. The best thing for both parties would be to trade him, although I doubt there are many teams that would pay him what he wants to get paid.

How can you be sure the Chiefs think LJ has peaked as a player?

Would you not lock him up long term if you felt he would at least duplicate his last two years for 2-3 more years? This deal would have been done long ago if that is what they thought.

 

[a_troll00]

I'm completely siding with LJ on this issue. RB careers are short in the NFL, just ask Terrel Davis and Jamal Anderson. So, LJ needs to get paid NOW.

LJ has put up great numbers, he's the backbone of the offense, and KC has worked him like a mule. KC, man up and pay the guy. The team showed absolutely no class dealing with Green, hopefully they'll handle LJ much better.

 

[AnonymousBob]

I have zero problem when a player holds out. None whatsoever. If football wants to start making contracts guaranteed (follow how baseball does these things), then I'd be okay hearing the argument you should play at your rate of pay.

LJ won't be able to play this game forever and he should get as much as he possibly can while he's still worth anything. Nobody is going to pay a fortune for an over the hill has been. He's in his prime and he's an absolute stud. He should be paid accordingly.

 

[Ford Prefect]

Kirwan's take:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/10230519

CHIEF CONCERNS

I spoke with Kansas City GM Carl Peterson last week about the issue of signing ability for running back Larry Johnson and defensive end Jared Allen. Peterson would obviously love to have both under long-term contracts, but I got the impression there will be an order to the contract negotiations. Johnson, the workhorse ball carrier, has been in attendance all spring and it would appear he will be first on the list. Peterson is comfortable that a deal could be worked out. Others with limited knowledge of the situation believe Johnson is only going to settle for a contract that is better than the one signed by LaDainian Tomlinson.

No one is suggesting Johnson is a better player, but he's close enough that a deal to make him the highest paid running back is possible. Something tells me the Chiefs will get a deal done and the salary cap space Kansas City received back when it traded Trent Green will be used to lock up the man who carried the ball 416 times last year. The franchise tag for running backs (average of the top five backs) is $7 million. Green was scheduled to make $7.2 million before leaving for Miami. So connect the dots from there.

As for Allen, the caution flag is up for now. But he should eventually be a Chief for a long time. As Peterson said, Allen is serving a four game suspension and one more issue he could be gone for a long time. The Chiefs organization believes Allen is doing all the right things to mend his ways, but the team is going to wait. Peterson did remind me that's he's from the 'Show Me' state.

 

[Illegal Pants Downfield]

There are rare times when I agree with a player holding out. This is one of them.

He's set to make only $1.7 million this year. For a player of his caliber and importance to his team, that's almost insulting.

They gave him the ball 416 times last year. 416! Add in another 41 catches and the pounding the team asks him to take is deserving of commensurate compensation.

I do understand that he deserves the money, but why pay someone an insane amount of money when he has peaked (or you feel he has, which Im sure the Cheifs do). He has had an insane amount of carries the last two years and is not getting any younger on a team that is rebuilding. The best thing for both parties would be to trade him, although I doubt there are many teams that would pay him what he wants to get paid.

How can you be sure the Chiefs think LJ has peaked as a player?

Would you not lock him up long term if you felt he would at least duplicate his last two years for 2-3 more years? This deal would have been done long ago if that is what they thought.

Ah...of course. Because teams are lining up to hurry to pay a guy market value when they know they've got a guy on an undervalued contract? I think teams will generally underpay a guy until they can't get away with it (holdout, threatened holdout, change in player attitude, contract running out and want to lock him up, etc.).

I think that's exactly the case here - the Chiefs aren't going to hurry to renegotiate LJ until LJ expresses discontent at his current contract. Now he is apparently doing just that, and I expect the Chiefs will renegotiate that contract.

But to jump to the conclusion that the Chiefs believe LJ is done simply based on the fact that they didn't VOLUNTEER to give him a new contract last year or the year before seems a bit silly...

 

[Family Matters]

There are rare times when I agree with a player holding out. This is one of them.

He's set to make only $1.7 million this year. For a player of his caliber and importance to his team, that's almost insulting.

They gave him the ball 416 times last year. 416! Add in another 41 catches and the pounding the team asks him to take is deserving of commensurate compensation.

I do understand that he deserves the money, but why pay someone an insane amount of money when he has peaked (or you feel he has, which Im sure the Cheifs do). He has had an insane amount of carries the last two years and is not getting any younger on a team that is rebuilding. The best thing for both parties would be to trade him, although I doubt there are many teams that would pay him what he wants to get paid.

How can you be sure the Chiefs think LJ has peaked as a player?

Would you not lock him up long term if you felt he would at least duplicate his last two years for 2-3 more years? This deal would have been done long ago if that is what they thought.

Sadly the NFL does not work that way. You have to play out your contract more often than not. As for the Chiefs not offerring yet, they sound like they don't want to pay any RB that kind of money. They know he's worth it, they just don't want to pay that much. They want a contract that makes them happy and that amount is way below market it seems.As for LJ already having his peak, you mean after 1 full season he's peaked? Not likely. If anything he's proven he can handle a bigger than normal load. That only improves his value.

 

[Family Matters]

It seems both sides are posturing at htis point. There's plent of time to get a deal done. Both sides are figuring out where each stands and this is in the early stages so I'm not too worried yet.

Is he a product of the system? Yes and no. They run a good system in KC. They have for years and I don't see that changing anytime soon. But this does not take away from what LJ has done. Few backs can do what he did. Over 450 touches and he's as strong at the end of the year as he was early on. He is a stud in a good system. Trust me, if Bennett could handle the load they would let him try. There's a reason few guys have ever carried the load LJ has.

 

[Ned]

I have always believed that the RB production in KC is a product of the system, not the individual RB. I wouldn't pay him that much more. I would give Michael Bennett a chance first. Back in the day Derrick Blaylock did just as well or better than LJ behind that line. Derrick who? That's right. The guy who went to New York and failed to become a starter.

probably one of the worst posts i've ever read on these boards.if you think last year was a product of the system then you clearly didn't watch any kc football.

 

[IndyHavoc]

I have always believed that the RB production in KC is a product of the system, not the individual RB. I wouldn't pay him that much more. I would give Michael Bennett a chance first. Back in the day Derrick Blaylock did just as well or better than LJ behind that line. Derrick who? That's right. The guy who went to New York and failed to become a starter.

probably one of the worst posts i've ever read on these boards.if you think last year was a product of the system then you clearly didn't watch any kc football.

Agreed. The system is nice and all, but LJ is an absolute beheamoth when it comes to breaking tackles and punishing tacklers. This guy would get tons of yards just about anywhere...well, maybe not in AZ :cry for Edge:FYI, I'm a Bennett dynasty owner...but even I won't kid myself into thinking he'd be anywhere in the ballpark in terms of production as LJ.

 

[StuntMonkee]

I agree that the guy needs to get paid. . .especially with the work load that they have put on him. . . .I even agree with the hold out to get that. . .what I dont agree with is that he apparently he thinks he more talented than LT, and nearly as valuable as Manning. . . . .

 

[AnonymousBob]

I agree that the guy needs to get paid. . .especially with the work load that they have put on him. . . .I even agree with the hold out to get that. . .what I dont agree with is that he apparently he thinks he more talented than LT, and nearly as valuable as Manning. . . . .

The Niners signed Nate Clements, who will be making more than Champ. Is he better? Players constantly get paid more and set a higher bar. In a couple years we'll see rookies and other young guys making more than LJ. They may or may not be as talented. It's simply the way things work.

 

[ImTheScientist]

There are rare times when I agree with a player holding out. This is one of them.

He's set to make only $1.7 million this year. For a player of his caliber and importance to his team, that's almost insulting.

They gave him the ball 416 times last year. 416! Add in another 41 catches and the pounding the team asks him to take is deserving of commensurate compensation.

I do understand that he deserves the money, but why pay someone an insane amount of money when he has peaked (or you feel he has, which Im sure the Cheifs do). He has had an insane amount of carries the last two years and is not getting any younger on a team that is rebuilding. The best thing for both parties would be to trade him, although I doubt there are many teams that would pay him what he wants to get paid.

How can you be sure the Chiefs think LJ has peaked as a player?

Would you not lock him up long term if you felt he would at least duplicate his last two years for 2-3 more years? This deal would have been done long ago if that is what they thought.

Ah...of course. Because teams are lining up to hurry to pay a guy market value when they know they've got a guy on an undervalued contract? I think teams will generally underpay a guy until they can't get away with it (holdout, threatened holdout, change in player attitude, contract running out and want to lock him up, etc.).

I think that's exactly the case here - the Chiefs aren't going to hurry to renegotiate LJ until LJ expresses discontent at his current contract. Now he is apparently doing just that, and I expect the Chiefs will renegotiate that contract.

But to jump to the conclusion that the Chiefs believe LJ is done simply based on the fact that they didn't VOLUNTEER to give him a new contract last year or the year before seems a bit silly...

Where did I say done?

 

[Illegal Pants Downfield]

There are rare times when I agree with a player holding out. This is one of them.

He's set to make only $1.7 million this year. For a player of his caliber and importance to his team, that's almost insulting.

They gave him the ball 416 times last year. 416! Add in another 41 catches and the pounding the team asks him to take is deserving of commensurate compensation.

I do understand that he deserves the money, but why pay someone an insane amount of money when he has peaked (or you feel he has, which Im sure the Cheifs do). He has had an insane amount of carries the last two years and is not getting any younger on a team that is rebuilding. The best thing for both parties would be to trade him, although I doubt there are many teams that would pay him what he wants to get paid.

How can you be sure the Chiefs think LJ has peaked as a player?

Would you not lock him up long term if you felt he would at least duplicate his last two years for 2-3 more years? This deal would have been done long ago if that is what they thought.

Ah...of course. Because teams are lining up to hurry to pay a guy market value when they know they've got a guy on an undervalued contract? I think teams will generally underpay a guy until they can't get away with it (holdout, threatened holdout, change in player attitude, contract running out and want to lock him up, etc.).

I think that's exactly the case here - the Chiefs aren't going to hurry to renegotiate LJ until LJ expresses discontent at his current contract. Now he is apparently doing just that, and I expect the Chiefs will renegotiate that contract.

But to jump to the conclusion that the Chiefs believe LJ is done simply based on the fact that they didn't VOLUNTEER to give him a new contract last year or the year before seems a bit silly...

Where did I say done?

Sorry...peaked. Point still the same, however - just because they didn't rush to pay him market value doesn't mean they don't think he's worth it.

 

[posty]

Now this would just stink in my keeper league as he would be my 2nd round pick...

 

[Beaumont]

To make it clear, KC and most other teams do not renegotiate contracts ... they will, however, extend them with a big fat new signing bonus ...

I expect this to get done ...

 

[Bizkiteer]

Here he comes, here comes speed racer, he's a demon on wheels...

Go go Michael Bennett!!!

 

[BigRed]

So if he has to settle for 3 mil a year versus 6 mil a year (for example), he may not be able to take care of his kids financially? these players had no problem growing up w/ watered down Kool-Aid and hot dogs and now they can't make ends meet unless they're making multi-million dollars a year? Please!He should just come clean and say "I want $XXX because I've earned it and deserve it". This whole "I need to make sure my family is financially secure" BS is insulting to anyone w/ half a brain. The guy has already made enough money to live securely ... and that's not even considering the NFL pension he'll someday get. Don't get me wrong, I think he deserves every penny he's asking for (and probably more) because the owner is making a ton of money off of the hard work of the players, but when these million dollar athletes start crying hardship to fans that are a couple of missed paychecks from being penniless, I find it insulting.

 

[Bob Magaw]

like many, i don't think LJ is merely a product of system... when i see him & steven jackson in the open field, i don't see a big difference... they are both an elite, special combo of size, power, speed, agility, athleticism, elusiveness, contact balance, toughness, etc...

i also think KC recognizes this & will get something done...

but this does beg the question...

if a trade happened, how many teams would want him... and of those, how many could afford him... guessing it isn't a big list... at least this year... maybe next year with cap boost, that would add more teams to the list...

* but as noted, it is hard for me to see a scenario where they let him get away... imo they view him as a franchise caliber runner & cornerstone playey to build the offense around...

because they don't have the kind of OL they used to, where maybe they could have thrown anybody in there & gotten 1,200 yards, is precisely why they need him...

also, its not like they have a stellar passing attack to fall back on... this team was built to run, & will remain so for the forseeable future...

LJ is about 27-28, not old, & he didn't play a lot i think, dating back to his prep days (pattern of being late bloomer & not doing much until senior season), & he didn't get a lot of wear initially as a pro behind priest... he does have the ability to run away from players & when there is contact in the secondary as often as not he delivers the blow (ala payton), which could extend his career... earl campbell was a different animal in terms of their running style...

 

[ImTheScientist]

like many, i don't think LJ is merely a product of system... when i see him & steven jackson in the open field, i don't see a big difference... they are both an elite, special combo of size, power, speed, agility, athleticism, elusiveness, contact nalance, toughness, etc...

i also think KC recognizes this & will get something done...

but this does beg the question...

if a trade happened, how many teams would want him... and of those, how many could afford him... guessing it isn't a big list... at least this year... maybe next year with cap boost, that would add more teams to the list...

But at that point why pay that kind of money to a 29 year old running back?

 

[Bob Magaw]

would you pay that kind of money to a 29 year old LT II?

 

[Andy Dufresne]

if a trade happened, how many teams would want him... and of those, how many could afford him... guessing it isn't a big list... at least this year... maybe next year with cap boost, that would add more teams to the list...

I love Tennessee's o-line and think LJ would be monstrous for the Titans.Other good landing spots, at least for the team involved if not LJ himself, would be Houston, Cleveland, Atlanta, and Detroit (if KJ not ready).

 

[BigRed]

would you pay that kind of money to a 29 year old LT II?

Not a valid analogy. Two very diff RBs.And even w/LT, I'd backload the #$#@ outta that contract.

 

[Illegal Pants Downfield]

like many, i don't think LJ is merely a product of system... when i see him & steven jackson in the open field, i don't see a big difference... they are both an elite, special combo of size, power, speed, agility, athleticism, elusiveness, contact nalance, toughness, etc...

i also think KC recognizes this & will get something done...

but this does beg the question...

if a trade happened, how many teams would want him... and of those, how many could afford him... guessing it isn't a big list... at least this year... maybe next year with cap boost, that would add more teams to the list...

But at that point why pay that kind of money to a 29 year old running back?

Wow - you're not being very subtle about your backhanded dislike of LJ in this thread...He will be 29. But despite a couple of heavy-use years in the past 2, he should be a very fresh 29. His first 2 years in the NFL were pretty light, and IIRC, he didn't start at PSU until his senior year. So it's not like he's been a heavily used workhorse feature back for the last 10 years like some 29 year-old RBs.

 

[Bob Magaw]

would you pay that kind of money to a 29 year old LT II?

Not a valid analogy. Two very diff RBs.And even w/LT, I'd backload the #$#@ outta that contract.

many people, whether in NFL or in fantasy football, would put LJ & #2 or #3 RB in the NFL...not sure they are so different that you can just dismiss the point out of hand & say they are completely different...BTW, if your concern is touches as well as age, doesn't LT II have vastly more touches as a pro?i doubt if LT would sign a heavily backloaded contract... so that would effectively be the same as saying you wouldn't sign him...

 

[ImTheScientist]

would you pay that kind of money to a 29 year old LT II?

Not a valid analogy. Two very diff RBs.And even w/LT, I'd backload the #$#@ outta that contract.

many people, whether in NFL or in fantasy football, would put LJ & #2 or #3 RB in the NFL...not sure they are so different that you can just dismiss the point out of hand & say they are completely different...BTW, if your concern is touches as well as age, doesn't LT II have vastly more touches as a pro?i doubt if LT would sign a heavily backloaded contract... so that would effectively be the same as saying you wouldn't sign him...

For the record, I do think he is a good back. I don't think he is great. LJ is nowhere near the RB LTII is, I would never compare those two. LTII is on a planet of his own, and is a future HOF RB, where LJ is not. LJ has had 2.5 great years, however I would not pay him LTII money. For these reasons:1) Age/Running Style2) System has helped him 3) CharacterI do understand that I am in the minority and most feel he should get his, and he is a great, great back. Personally I think he is a lot more like a Shaun Alexander than a LTII. If he plays well this season I will have a change of heart.

 

[BigRed]

not sure they are so different that you can just dismiss the point out of hand & say they are completely different...

I didn't say they were "completely" different. They are different though.

BTW, if your concern is touches as well as age, doesn't LT II have vastly more touches as a pro?

True, although not the same kind of touches. He doesn't get hammered around nearly as much as LJ, again largely due to their diff. styles.

 

[BoulderBob]

Give the man his money, he has earned the raise.

 

[Bob Magaw]

not sure they are so different that you can just dismiss the point out of hand & say they are completely different...

I didn't say they were "completely" different. They are different though.

BTW, if your concern is touches as well as age, doesn't LT II have vastly more touches as a pro?

True, although not the same kind of touches. He doesn't get hammered around nearly as much as LJ, again largely due to their diff. styles.

its not like LJ is christian okoye... when he gets into secondary, he often delivers the blow... he will run away from defenders and to daylight when he can (not all of his TDs are dragging 5 defenders across the goal line )... they are both about 220-230 & run a 4.4 (pretty sure LT didn't clock a 4.2 or 4.3, so they are actually similar speed)... there are some similarities, too, that you are glossing over and choosing to deemphasize...LT is admittedly quicker & more elusive & avoids big hits better... if LT has as long & distinguished a career as payton & smith (& he might surpass them), it won't be because he doesn't get hit (or is cuddled to the ground by CBs)... he is a mutant that is built to take the punishment... LJ appears to be built to take the punishment, too, though this season should be telling...its an oversimplification to suggest that LT never gets hit by DL or LB (& conversely LJ is never tackled in sceondary), and therefore his touches are, if not completely different, so different that they aren't comparable... even if you weren't suggesting that, but that they are absorbing different shots from same players/positions, again, its not like LJ is taking kill shot sternum spears on a regular basis, or like all of LTs hits are glancing blows because of his superior field vision & awareness... LJ is able to avoid big hits at times, and LT fails to do so at times... again, LJ hasn't gotten 1,700 yards rushing two seasons in a row by stringing together hundreds of one yard runs where he is getting slammed by DL & LBs on every play... the dude gets to the second level... A LOT.* LJ has 892 rushes in his NFL careerLT has 2,050even if they are by nature different rushes, that is a lot of rushes...but this may all be a moot point, as an overarching concern for you seemed to be age... they are the same age (LJ actually a few months younger), & you already implied you wouldn't give LT a market value contract... a heavily backloaded contract for a player of LTs stature would not be market value...