ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
I'm hardly a hater considering I went to Penn State and own him in a keeper league. So why won't you take the Sig bet? 
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Larry Johnson (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter coolnerd
- Start date
I'm hardly a hater considering I went to Penn State and own him in a keeper league. So why won't you take the Sig bet? 
Routilla
Footballguy
I really think many of the negative posts are a result of getting pounded by LJ in their FF playoffs over the last few years. There is really no other logical explanation. What happened to the old saying, "If you can't beat 'em join 'em", or in this case DRAFT 'em?It seems some folks are in fact out thinking themselves on LJ. Some people are looking for a reason not to like him as a fantasy RB. It makes no sesnse to me.
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moleculo
Footballguy
It's tough for me to put a finger on why, but I simply don't like LJ, and I would hate to be rooting for him. It could be because I am a Bronco fan and he is a division rival. i have a personal long-standing FF rule to never draft a raider (or capitalize the word "raider", for that matter), and I generally dislike the chiefs as well. On the other hand, I have drafted Gonzo and I have the KC defense in a dynasty league, so I don't think my distaste for LJ stems from him being a Chief. I guess I don't trust that he will stay healthy. This is a subjective arguement - I'm not going to cite some 370 carry rule, I just think that he takes a lot of pounding. Rarely do you see an LJ run where he is untouched, where LT goes untouched quite a bit - either to the end zone or out of bounds. LJ is a run over you kind of guy; LT is a run around you kind of guy. It's difficult for me to wrap my mind around the concept that LJ can run the way he does for the number of carries Herm will give him without breaking down.I really think many of the negative posts are a result of getting pounded by LJ in their FF playoffs over the last few years. There is really no other logical explanation. What happened to the old saying, "If you can't beat 'em join 'em", or in this case DRAFT 'em?It seems some folks are in fact out thinking themselves on LJ. Some people are looking for a reason not to like him as a fantasy RB. It makes no sesnse to me.
also the "angry runner" thing as mentioned previously.
Family Matters
Footballguy
I think that's what would explain alot of people and their feelings. This is why I (and others) keep saying don't over think this. You just may end up out smarting yourself.BTW-I would advise that you never have any hard and fast rules about liking or disliking a player for FF purposes. All you're doing is weaking your team and making others stronger.It's tough for me to put a finger on why, but I simply don't like LJ, and I would hate to be rooting for him. It could be because I am a Bronco fan and he is a division rival. i have a personal long-standing FF rule to never draft a raider (or capitalize the word "raider", for that matter), and I generally dislike the chiefs as well. On the other hand, I have drafted Gonzo and I have the KC defense in a dynasty league, so I don't think my distaste for LJ stems from him being a Chief. I guess I don't trust that he will stay healthy. This is a subjective arguement - I'm not going to cite some 370 carry rule, I just think that he takes a lot of pounding. Rarely do you see an LJ run where he is untouched, where LT goes untouched quite a bit - either to the end zone or out of bounds. LJ is a run over you kind of guy; LT is a run around you kind of guy. It's difficult for me to wrap my mind around the concept that LJ can run the way he does for the number of carries Herm will give him without breaking down.I really think many of the negative posts are a result of getting pounded by LJ in their FF playoffs over the last few years. There is really no other logical explanation. What happened to the old saying, "If you can't beat 'em join 'em", or in this case DRAFT 'em?It seems some folks are in fact out thinking themselves on LJ. Some people are looking for a reason not to like him as a fantasy RB. It makes no sesnse to me.
also the "angry runner" thing as mentioned previously.
moleculo
Footballguy
not for me. FF is about having fun. Being in a position to cheer for the raiders is never fun for me. Cheering for players that I don't like is not fun.Football is much more enjoyable when your FF interests and your general interests are aligned.
Anthony Borbely
Footballguy
Fun in fantasy football = winning.
Warpig
Footballguy
Fun in fantasy football = winning.
Winning = FunNot winning = Not fun
Keys Myaths
Pokerguy
For you guys, sure. If someone else has fun for a different reason, why is that automatically wrong?Fun in fantasy football = winning.
Anthony Borbely
Footballguy
Who said it is wrong? I only gave my opinions of fun in fantasy football.For you guys, sure. If someone else has fun for a different reason, why is that automatically wrong?Fun in fantasy football = winning.
Tong Po
Footballguy
I don't post enough on these boards to care about my or anybody elses's signature. And I'm not calling you out specifically as a Larry Johnson hater. I'm simply pointing out that there was a long-running thread on these boards last season with many LJ detractors making the same exact arguements. About halfway through the season, NONE of them returned to the thread to admit they were horribly wrong.I see parallels in this thread and I find that funny.Carry on.I'm hardly a hater considering I went to Penn State and own him in a keeper league. So why won't you take the Sig bet?
Keys Myaths
Pokerguy
That seemed to be the implication when you said "fun=winning" as a direct reply to his post.Who said it is wrong? I only gave my opinions of fun in fantasy football.For you guys, sure. If someone else has fun for a different reason, why is that automatically wrong?Fun in fantasy football = winning.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
OK, but there are differences this season that seem worse on all 4 of my points:1) He had more of workload in 2006 than in 2005, so if there is any risk it would be greater this year. 2) He was upset about being underpaid last season. He no longer needs to be upset about being underpaid this season. 3) He lost another long time, excellent OLine member this season; again, worse than last season4) I can't imagine that anyone expects Croyle to perform better than a pre-concussed Trent Green or Damon Huard did in relief last year. So again, I ask: How does it NOT look worse for LJ this year?I don't post enough on these boards to care about my or anybody elses's signature. And I'm not calling you out specifically as a Larry Johnson hater. I'm simply pointing out that there was a long-running thread on these boards last season with many LJ detractors making the same exact arguements. About halfway through the season, NONE of them returned to the thread to admit they were horribly wrong.I see parallels in this thread and I find that funny.Carry on.
I see all these LJ excuses as to why he's overrated and I think they're all faulty logic.
Less angry cause he just got paid??? is there some scientific evidence that spells this out as a trend cause I don't remember it from any of the top RB's including LT.
Weaker OL this year??? Please, they were weaker last year on Will Shields last year of legs and an undersized Kyle Turley and LJ still got his yards.
370 rule/overuse??? Too small a sample size to make a valid argument and the simple fact of life in the NFL is that it's not a matter of if you get hurt but WHEN!!! LJ will get hurt at some point but it will have everything to do with bad luck and nothing to do with workload from the previous year. It still makes me laugh to think that people really believe this crap. You guys are too easy.
Worse QB??? Could be true if it's Croyle I suppose but more likely, a poor QB will mean less sustained drives, first downs, opportunities/carries for LJ so his workload will be reduced with the DEF on the field more. Croyle COULD be a factor. I don't think that Huard would be a negative factor.
What else COULD be a factor in a decline for LJ???
1. How about a simple thing called falling back to the norm in terms of number of carries in the NFL.
2. IF you saw last years playoff game you saw LJ stuffed with 8 in the box due to predictable offensive play calling. If every team does this and Gonzo has to stay in to block then it could be a long year for KC and LJ and he would get less carries due to a lot of 3 and outs.
3. Offensive balance,,,many teams tweak their tendancies from year to year and since last year it was LJ left, LJ right and LJ up the middle, this year we could see some better offensive play calling balance such as more passes and this could mean less carries for LJ, it could mean more passes for LJ but that remains to be seen since KC has played their cards very close to their vest in preseason games concerning offensive play calling. Herm did comment a couple of months ago that he wanted to get LJ more involved as a pass catcher this season and KC did draft a big posession WR (in the mold of Michael Irvin from what I read) so offensive balance may be what Herm has in mind as a response to the INDY playoff game. Knowing that Herm wants to play conservative and win with DEF, it makes sense that his version of opening up the offense means more short throws to TE, RB and a posession WR.
What do I think we'll see??? I think that history is the best predictor of future results and even if LJ has a decline in performance, anywhere you take him in the first round is a solid pick since it won't break your season. I think most other RB's have a lower downside risk than LJ.
Less angry cause he just got paid??? is there some scientific evidence that spells this out as a trend cause I don't remember it from any of the top RB's including LT.
Weaker OL this year??? Please, they were weaker last year on Will Shields last year of legs and an undersized Kyle Turley and LJ still got his yards.
370 rule/overuse??? Too small a sample size to make a valid argument and the simple fact of life in the NFL is that it's not a matter of if you get hurt but WHEN!!! LJ will get hurt at some point but it will have everything to do with bad luck and nothing to do with workload from the previous year. It still makes me laugh to think that people really believe this crap. You guys are too easy.
Worse QB??? Could be true if it's Croyle I suppose but more likely, a poor QB will mean less sustained drives, first downs, opportunities/carries for LJ so his workload will be reduced with the DEF on the field more. Croyle COULD be a factor. I don't think that Huard would be a negative factor.
What else COULD be a factor in a decline for LJ???
1. How about a simple thing called falling back to the norm in terms of number of carries in the NFL.
2. IF you saw last years playoff game you saw LJ stuffed with 8 in the box due to predictable offensive play calling. If every team does this and Gonzo has to stay in to block then it could be a long year for KC and LJ and he would get less carries due to a lot of 3 and outs.
3. Offensive balance,,,many teams tweak their tendancies from year to year and since last year it was LJ left, LJ right and LJ up the middle, this year we could see some better offensive play calling balance such as more passes and this could mean less carries for LJ, it could mean more passes for LJ but that remains to be seen since KC has played their cards very close to their vest in preseason games concerning offensive play calling. Herm did comment a couple of months ago that he wanted to get LJ more involved as a pass catcher this season and KC did draft a big posession WR (in the mold of Michael Irvin from what I read) so offensive balance may be what Herm has in mind as a response to the INDY playoff game. Knowing that Herm wants to play conservative and win with DEF, it makes sense that his version of opening up the offense means more short throws to TE, RB and a posession WR.
What do I think we'll see??? I think that history is the best predictor of future results and even if LJ has a decline in performance, anywhere you take him in the first round is a solid pick since it won't break your season. I think most other RB's have a lower downside risk than LJ.
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One
Not Allowed In Mexico
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Here's another:He's always had to prove himself.
"That's always made him a little more angry," says Chiefs president/general manager Carl Peterson. "I like to keep him angry. I think he runs well when he's angry."
Offensive lineman Brian Waters says that's part of Johnson's mystique.
"The angrier he gets, the more violent he gets, the better it is for us," Waters says.
Link
Tong Po
Footballguy
Allow me to retort...1) He STILL has been carrying the load as a starting RB for just 2 seasons. So his OVERALL workload is still pretty low.2) Let's shelf all this "running angry" bull. Maybe now that he has the fat contract, he will be out to PROVE his value.... and prove he DESERVES to be one of the Top 3 paid RBs in the league.3) The remainder of LJ's offensive line has now been playing together through an extra offseason. Despite losing a guy, isn't it possible they could actually gel more as a unit and be BETTER than they were last year?4) Last I heard, Huard was still the starter, and he actually played pretty decent down the stretch last year. And if Croyle wins the job, I gotta believe it's because he outplayed Huard. Not saying that's an impressive feat... but it's not like the guy has no talent or skill.So that's how I can say with confidence it does NOT look worse for LJ this year.OK, but there are differences this season that seem worse on all 4 of my points:1) He had more of workload in 2006 than in 2005, so if there is any risk it would be greater this year. 2) He was upset about being underpaid last season. He no longer needs to be upset about being underpaid this season. 3) He lost another long time, excellent OLine member this season; again, worse than last season4) I can't imagine that anyone expects Croyle to perform better than a pre-concussed Trent Green or Damon Huard did in relief last year. So again, I ask: How does it NOT look worse for LJ this year?I don't post enough on these boards to care about my or anybody elses's signature. And I'm not calling you out specifically as a Larry Johnson hater. I'm simply pointing out that there was a long-running thread on these boards last season with many LJ detractors making the same exact arguements. About halfway through the season, NONE of them returned to the thread to admit they were horribly wrong.I see parallels in this thread and I find that funny.Carry on.I'm hardly a hater considering I went to Penn State and own him in a keeper league. So why won't you take the Sig bet?
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Disagree with your points, but thanks for the retort. And please fell free to bump this later in the year so we can see who was right.Allow me to retort...1) He STILL has been carrying the load as a starting RB for just 2 seasons. So his OVERALL workload is still pretty low.2) Let's shelf all this "running angry" bull. Maybe now that he has the fat contract, he will be out to PROVE his value.... and prove he DESERVES to be one of the Top 3 paid RBs in the league.3) The remainder of LJ's offensive line has now been playing together through an extra offseason. Despite losing a guy, isn't it possible they could actually gel more as a unit and be BETTER than they were last year?4) Last I heard, Huard was still the starter, and he actually played pretty decent down the stretch last year. And if Croyle wins the job, I gotta believe it's because he outplayed Huard. Not saying that's an impressive feat... but it's not like the guy has no talent or skill.So that's how I can say with confidence it does NOT look worse for LJ this year.OK, but there are differences this season that seem worse on all 4 of my points:1) He had more of workload in 2006 than in 2005, so if there is any risk it would be greater this year. 2) He was upset about being underpaid last season. He no longer needs to be upset about being underpaid this season. 3) He lost another long time, excellent OLine member this season; again, worse than last season4) I can't imagine that anyone expects Croyle to perform better than a pre-concussed Trent Green or Damon Huard did in relief last year. So again, I ask: How does it NOT look worse for LJ this year?I don't post enough on these boards to care about my or anybody elses's signature. And I'm not calling you out specifically as a Larry Johnson hater. I'm simply pointing out that there was a long-running thread on these boards last season with many LJ detractors making the same exact arguements. About halfway through the season, NONE of them returned to the thread to admit they were horribly wrong.I see parallels in this thread and I find that funny.Carry on.
I find your retort intriguing and you may be right. But I do want to counter on a couple of your points.3) Isn't it possible that they could actually gel more as a unit and be better? Sure, it is possible. Anything is possible really. But from my view, I would feel more comfortable with Will Sheild's in front of me if I were LJ than without. If I were speculating, I would imagine that the loss of one of the great guards of this era, coupled with him being considered one of the "nice" guys and certainly a team guy will have more of a negative impact on the line than a positive one. Anything is possible though.4) Here in KC, they seem to think it is Croyle's job, even though it probably should not be. They seem to think that the front office wants Croyle the QB of the future to start now and take his lumps. To me that does not sound like a situation where LJ is not going to have the box stacked against him VERY often, but again anything is possible.
gump
Footballguy
Regarding the QB situation for LJ:
Croyle has a "cannon attached to his shoulder", as one of his teammates put it. So if he starts, doesn't that help open the field for LJ? (Assuming he's not completely ineffective).
I think the FO and Herm know Croyle will make mistakes, but think his upside is high because he can stretch the field with his arm (for one thing). He may throw a lot of picks, but he may also accent that with a lot of downfield completions and big plays.
Wouldn't that be good for the running game?
Croyle has a "cannon attached to his shoulder", as one of his teammates put it. So if he starts, doesn't that help open the field for LJ? (Assuming he's not completely ineffective).
I think the FO and Herm know Croyle will make mistakes, but think his upside is high because he can stretch the field with his arm (for one thing). He may throw a lot of picks, but he may also accent that with a lot of downfield completions and big plays.
Wouldn't that be good for the running game?
No question about it, if it is effective. If Croyle is able to throw the deep ball with some amount of precision and either Kennison or Bowe (they hope) are able to stretch the field it certainly has the potential to open some running lanes for LJ.But that is putting a lot of bank in what is essentially a rookie QB (I know he is not, but this is his first chance at playing time), a rookie WR and a aging WR who has been solid at stretching the field in the past.The best thing working for LJ, IMO, is Tony G. He still demands respect in the middle of the field, even though he too is aging.It is just my opinion, but I do not think the strength of Croyle's arm demands enough respect to keep people out of the box for LJ. Much in the same way that Kyle Boller's tremendous arm strength did not aid in Jamal Lewis' production in Baltimore. If Croyle ends up being something much more than Boller, it certainly could. But only time will tell with that, and at this point it is a gamble to assume otherwise.LJ will get his, no doubt. But it is hard for me to imagine that it will come as easily to him this year as it has in the past.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Maybe, although I would offset that with the thought that a less "careful" QB likely means less overall possessions and possibly playing from behind more. Due to the fact that LJ isn't used that much in the passing game (or as much as guys like Tomlinson, Jackson, Westbrook, Bush, etc), both those issues may lead to fewer touches (ironically) and less production this season.
Croyle has a higher upside than Huard which is why KC wants him to win the job. KC probably thinks that Huard can get them into the playoffs like last year but to win in the playoffs you typically need a better QB than an NFL journeyman backup. Problem with LJ is that Croyle has a higher downside than Huard as well and that means stalled drives, fumbles and INTs that reduce LJ's carries.gump said:
