Lee Evans Talent Level (1 Viewer)

[Mortimer Ichabod]

There seems to be a wide range of opinion on the skills of one Lee Evans. Some say he is a great #1WR talent trapped on a bad team. Others say he's really okay, nothing great, sort of like a glorified Santana Moss. As a Bills fan I have a difficult team being objective in this matter so I would like to pose this question to the board. Where do you see Lee Evans talent level to be at? Is he a legit #1 or a complimentary speed guy a la Moss? Is last year an abberation or the beginning of a trend? Does Mr. Evans have what it takes to be great?

 

[travdogg]

I would say he's closer to Moss than Harrison, however I believe if Moss had ever had an elite QB throwing to him he'd be an annual top-10 type of guy.

 

[Banger]

Harrison is/was one of the best to play the game Evans is not.

 

[Super King]

If Lee Evans was in the Indy offense, he'd be a top 3 WR in the NFL.

 

[Mr. Yuk]

I think the Harrison comparison is a little unfair. Harrison was not just a '#1' reciever, but one of the better recievers of all time. If it was between, say, a Santana Moss and an Anquan Boldin, I would put him much closer to Boldin, or in other words, a top 15-20 reciever talent wise.

 

[Banger]

If Lee Evans was in the Indy offense, he'd be a top 3 WR in the NFL.

Maybe but so would Chad Johnson, Colston, Marshall, Holt, Steve Smith, Andre Johnson, Larry Fitz, B. Edwards, Moss, Owens, etc.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

I think he's better than both of those players but Santana Moss is a better comparison than Harrison. Harrison is soft. Moss is small but plays big.

 

[munchkin]

Santana Moss is a one trick pony who i have seen give up on plays one too many times. I would hope Evans is more than that and I believe he is. I would definitely rather have Evans on my Dynasty team over Moss.

 

[Mortimer Ichabod]

I think he's better than both of those players but Santana Moss is a better comparison than Harrison. Harrison is soft. Moss is small but plays big.

Perhaps Marvin now. I was using him more as an example of an elite #1 WR comparable in size to Evans.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

I think he's better than both of those players but Santana Moss is a better comparison than Harrison. Harrison is soft. Moss is small but plays big.

Perhaps Marvin now. I was using him more as an example of an elite #1 WR comparable in size to Evans.

Harrison is a great route runner with track star speed who was fortunate enough to land in Indy where he got to play indoors with one of the best QBs and most wide open offenses in the league. If the Bills drafted him, he would have been no better than Eric Moulds, IMO.Evans is a more complete player than Harrison.

 

[sholditch]

Evans is a total joke who got lucky in about 4-5 games of one year and has been riding it ever since

Lee Evans owner last year

 

[Banger]

I think he's better than both of those players but Santana Moss is a better comparison than Harrison. Harrison is soft. Moss is small but plays big.

Perhaps Marvin now. I was using him more as an example of an elite #1 WR comparable in size to Evans.

Harrison is a great route runner with track star speed who was fortunate enough to land in Indy where he got to play indoors with one of the best QBs and most wide open offenses in the league. If the Bills drafted him, he would have been no better than Eric Moulds, IMO.Evans is a more complete player than Harrison.

spoken like a Bills fan. I think you are overestimating Evans and underestimating Harrison.

 

[sholditch]

I think he's better than both of those players but Santana Moss is a better comparison than Harrison. Harrison is soft. Moss is small but plays big.

Perhaps Marvin now. I was using him more as an example of an elite #1 WR comparable in size to Evans.

Harrison is a great route runner with track star speed who was fortunate enough to land in Indy where he got to play indoors with one of the best QBs and most wide open offenses in the league. If the Bills drafted him, he would have been no better than Eric Moulds, IMO.

Evans is a more complete player than Harrison.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

I can't think of any WR in the league who goes down easier on contact than Marvin Harrison. He's a finesse receiver. Great at what he does but it wouldn't work nearly as well on most other teams around the league.

 

[Banger]

I can't think of any WR in the league who goes down easier on contact than Marvin Harrison. He's a finesse receiver. Great at what he does but it wouldn't work nearly as well on most other teams around the league.

Moss (Randy) isn't exactly a power WR.

 

[TheLastDispatch]

I think the Harrison comparison is a little unfair. Harrison was not just a '#1' reciever, but one of the better recievers of all time. If it was between, say, a Santana Moss and an Anquan Boldin, I would put him much closer to Boldin, or in other words, a top 15-20 reciever talent wise.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

I can't think of any WR in the league who goes down easier on contact than Marvin Harrison. He's a finesse receiver. Great at what he does but it wouldn't work nearly as well on most other teams around the league.

Moss (Randy) isn't exactly a power WR.

Agreed. But he's stronger than he looks and wins a lot of contested balls because of it. Almost all of Harrison's catches happen because corners can't stay with him.I'm not trying to bash Marvin. I'm a big fan. Just think he tends to get overrated because of the perfect situation he's played in during his career.

 

[FUBAR]

I think the Harrison comparison is a little unfair. Harrison was not just a '#1' reciever, but one of the better recievers of all time. If it was between, say, a Santana Moss and an Anquan Boldin, I would put him much closer to Boldin, or in other words, a top 15-20 reciever talent wise.

If you took Boldin, Lav. Coles, Harrison, Steve Smith, and Santana Moss, threw them in a blender...

 

[JPeso]

The thread was "talent level," not "style."

He plays like S. Moss, but I think he is much better.

Evans is somewhere in between S. Moss and Steve Smith.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

For me the two options were a little odd because I think both Evans and Moss have the talent to be elite if they were in better situations. Moss' game has some holes, but he was the #2 receiver one year, and on better teams with better QBs and a stable system, he could really do some damage. I think think both of them are more talented than Wayne for example, but Wayne is by far the better fantasy option.

 

[cstu]

He's certainly better than S. Moss but it's unfair to compare him to Harrison. Talent-wise you could say Evans and Harrison are similar but until Evans gets a real QB it will be difficult to know how good he really is.

 

[SSOG]

I think that Evans is one of the 5 most talented receivers in the league. I'm higher on Moss than most, too, though- I think he falls in the 10-15 range.

 

[Summer Wheat]

Evens seems to log 75% of his stats in 3-4 games. As does Moss.

If those happen to be a playoff game you are golden. Moss won a few owners a title a couple of years back.

 

[Super King]

If Evans hadnt ripped his knee up in college, he would have been a top 5 pick. I think him and Trent do some good things this year.

 

[Banger]

If Evans hadnt ripped his knee up in college, he would have been a top 5 pick. I think him and Trent do some good things this year.

I'd certainly be looking to snag him this year. I thought he was a little expensive last year considering the team and situation but hovering around wr20-23 right now is a good place to take a shot at him. There will be a ton of people avoiding him this year due to being burned by him last year so there's a chance he'll fall farther than he should in a lot of drafts.

 

[Maroney=Sped]

I would say he's closer to Moss than Harrison, however I believe if Moss had ever had an elite QB throwing to him legs that didn't get injured at the drop of a hat he'd be an annual top-10 type of guy.

Fixed. Moss is underrated, but that's only because of his injuries. I don't get the Moss-Harrison comparison anyway. Moss is a burner who is excellent on deep routes. Certainly, Marvin can get deep too, but I view him more in the Jerry Rice mold, a guy who runs superb routes with great hands, and relies more upon those attributes than speed to get separation and make plays.

 

[Grahamburn]

I think that Evans is one of the 5 most talented receivers in the league. I'm higher on Moss than most, too, though- I think he falls in the 10-15 range.

I was ecstatic to grab Lee Evans in the 4th round in my redraft league in 2007, largely because of SSOG's posting in Lee's spotlight thread. Nice points in there. I then continued to "start him with confidence" hoping for that big breakout. He did have those couple big games, but was largely a disappointment overall. In fact, he killed me at the beginning of the season. While watching his games though, I didn't feel like it was because Lee Evans wasn't a talented player. It was more the playcalling approach (lack of targets) and poor QB play that depreciated Lee's value. So, are we expected anything different in Buffalo this year? I guess that's the million dollar question.With that said, I'll be hoping to grab him in the 5th round in 2008. I love this guy.

 

[Buckna]

Not a fan, I think he's highly overrated. 22% of his production in '06 came in 1 game out of 16: his 265 yard, 2 TD game against Houston. 166 of those yards and both TD's were on 83 yard bombs in the 1st quarter. That screams fluke to me.

 

[ookook]

I would put Evans around the 8th to 12th talent-wise.

I think Owens, S. Moss, Smith, Edwards, Boldin, Chad Johnson, R. Williams and Buress are probably more talented. Harrison and Holt USED to be. (BTW, I am not talking about motivation, just athleticism and knowledge). I think R. Wayne, A. Johnson and Evans then start to come up about even.

I suspect I would then put S. Moss in somewhere between 12th and 15th.

 

[Gopher State]

If Lee Evans was in the Indy offense, he'd be a top 3 WR in the NFL.

Troy Williamson would be top 10 in Indy's offense also

 

[Maroney=Sped]

If Lee Evans was in the Indy offense, he'd be a top 3 WR in the NFL.

Troy Williamson would be top 10 in Indy's offense also

Jim Abbott has better hands than Troy Williamson.

 

[gianmarco]

I would put Evans around the 8th to 12th talent-wise.I think Owens, S. Moss, Smith, Edwards, Boldin, Chad Johnson, R. Williams and Buress are probably more talented. Harrison and Holt USED to be. (BTW, I am not talking about motivation, just athleticism and knowledge). I think R. Wayne, A. Johnson and Evans then start to come up about even. I suspect I would then put S. Moss in somewhere between 12th and 15th.

Hmm....I think Andre Johnson is easily one of the top 5 most talented WR's in the league.Also, where's Randy and Fitz on that list?

 

[sholditch]

Evans makes a decent WR2 and a great WR3. He's been in the league for four years and has one season with 80+ catches and 1100+ yards. That season he had 3 games over 100 yards, 4 under 50 (more terrible games than great ones), and the rest (9) in the 50-99 range.

That same year, Harrison had six games over 100 yards, 4 games under 50 (more great games than terrible, and twice the amount of great games as Evan's best season to date), and the rest (6) in the 50-99 range.

In 2006 (Evans's best season which he has not come close to matching) Marvin had 4 more TDs, 13 more receptions, and averaged 4 more yards per game. If you compare Marvin's best year (2002) to Evans's best (2006) Marvin had over 60 more receptions, 3 more TDs, and almost 500 more yards.

Furthermore, once Marvin hit 1000 yards in 99, he didn't fail to do so again until last year, when he played only five games at age 35.

If Evans even has a slight hope of being anything close to the player that Marvin has been, he needs to average about 1250 yards for the next decade+.

 

[munchkin]

Evans makes a decent WR2 and a great WR3. He's been in the league for four years and has one season with 80+ catches and 1100+ yards. That season he had 3 games over 100 yards, 4 under 50 (more terrible games than great ones), and the rest (9) in the 50-99 range. That same year, Harrison had six games over 100 yards, 4 games under 50 (more great games than terrible, and twice the amount of great games as Evan's best season to date), and the rest (6) in the 50-99 range.In 2006 (Evans's best season which he has not come close to matching) Marvin had 4 more TDs, 13 more receptions, and averaged 4 more yards per game. If you compare Marvin's best year (2002) to Evans's best (2006) Marvin had over 60 more receptions, 3 more TDs, and almost 500 more yards. Furthermore, once Marvin hit 1000 yards in 99, he didn't fail to do so again until last year, when he played only five games at age 35.If Evans even has a slight hope of being anything close to the player that Marvin has been, he needs to average about 1250 yards for the next decade+.

How good would Marvin have looked with Bledsoe and Losman tossing him the ball. Dude is talented, no doubt, but his situation could not have been any better. Production isn't always a measure of talent. How good did Moss look in Oakland? Granted he had some personal issues but that team around him was pretty bad.

 

[sholditch]

Personal issues? He intentionally tanked it the whole time he was there. There's no use in getting in chicken-and-the-egg arguments about QBs and receivers. Would Jerry Rice have been as good had he not played with Joe Montana and Steve Young? Who knows? No one will ever know. But would you compare Evans to Rice just because Evans has had crappy QBs and Rice had great ones? No. This comparison makes just as much sense.

 

[cstu]

If Lee Evans was in the Indy offense, he'd be a top 3 WR in the NFL.

Troy Williamson would be top 10 in Indy's offense also

Jim Abbott has better hands than Troy Williamson.

 

[munchkin]

Personal issues? He intentionally tanked it the whole time he was there. There's no use in getting in chicken-and-the-egg arguments about QBs and receivers. Would Jerry Rice have been as good had he not played with Joe Montana and Steve Young? Who knows? No one will ever know. But would you compare Evans to Rice just because Evans has had crappy QBs and Rice had great ones? No. This comparison makes just as much sense.

Jerry Rice would have had the same talent and work ethic whether he played with Montana or Joe Kapp, it's his PRODUCTION that would have been different. If you can't see the value in a quarterback receiver relationship then you are missing something.And yes I would compare Evans to Rice and I doubt that Evans would have been as productive as Rice was on those 49'er teams but I also don't think Marvin would have been as productive as Rice in the same situation. No-one can say FOR SURE how two players would produce under the same conditions but it is reasonable to assume that a player could be more productive with more talent around him. The Brady to Moss combination looked a lot better than the Brady Reche Caldwell/Jabar Gaffney combo's looked last year. Why do you think Brady petitioned so hard to bring Moss back? Don't you think Moss brought Brady's stats up just a little bit?

 

[SSOG]

Not a fan, I think he's highly overrated. 22% of his production in '06 came in 1 game out of 16: his 265 yard, 2 TD game against Houston. 166 of those yards and both TD's were on 83 yard bombs in the 1st quarter. That screams fluke to me.

Evans is a deep threat. That's going to be true of ALL deep threats, even the elite ones. Look at Chad Johnson the past couple of years, for instance. Or Santana Moss and Steve Smith. When you're in an offense where your production is almost entirely dependent on one or two big plays, you're going to have great games (where you hit 2-3 big plays) and bad games (where you don't hit any) compared to the guys who play in more of a possession-type role. That's the nature of the position, not a comment on his talent level.

I would put Evans around the 8th to 12th talent-wise.I think Owens, S. Moss, Smith, Edwards, Boldin, Chad Johnson, R. Williams and Buress are probably more talented. Harrison and Holt USED to be. (BTW, I am not talking about motivation, just athleticism and knowledge). I think R. Wayne, A. Johnson and Evans then start to come up about even. I suspect I would then put S. Moss in somewhere between 12th and 15th.

I think I'd go something like Randy Moss, Smiff, Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, then Lee Evans. After that, you've got Chad Johnson, Braylon Edwards, Anquan Boldin, Torry Holt, and Terrell Owens all bunched up. Then you have your Wayne, Roy Williams, Santana Moss, Plaxico Burress tier. I'm sure I'm forgetting some people, but that's how I'd break it down.

 

[Fallerjw]

Evans is a total joke who got lucky in about 4-5 games of one year and has been riding it ever since Lee Evans owner last year

Which 4 - 5 games of which single year did he get lucky?Here are some of your choices:2004:8 catches 92 yards 2 TD5 catches 101 yards 1 TD4 catches 110 yards 2 TD2005:5 catches 107 yards 1 TD5 catches 117 yards 3 TD3 catches 66 yards 2 TD2006:7 catches 145 yards 1 TD11 catches 265 yards 2 TD9 catches 94 yards 1 TD2007:2 catches 79 yards 2 TD9 catches 165 yards 1 TD5 catches 138 yards 1 TD

 

[sholditch]

Personal issues? He intentionally tanked it the whole time he was there. There's no use in getting in chicken-and-the-egg arguments about QBs and receivers. Would Jerry Rice have been as good had he not played with Joe Montana and Steve Young? Who knows? No one will ever know. But would you compare Evans to Rice just because Evans has had crappy QBs and Rice had great ones? No. This comparison makes just as much sense.

Jerry Rice would have had the same talent and work ethic whether he played with Montana or Joe Kapp, it's his PRODUCTION that would have been different. If you can't see the value in a quarterback receiver relationship then you are missing something.And yes I would compare Evans to Rice and I doubt that Evans would have been as productive as Rice was on those 49'er teams but I also don't think Marvin would have been as productive as Rice in the same situation. No-one can say FOR SURE how two players would produce under the same conditions but it is reasonable to assume that a player could be more productive with more talent around him. The Brady to Moss combination looked a lot better than the Brady Reche Caldwell/Jabar Gaffney combo's looked last year. Why do you think Brady petitioned so hard to bring Moss back? Don't you think Moss brought Brady's stats up just a little bit?

Of COURSE. Find me anything in what I said that would indicate anything else. If you're going to quote a post at least read it. My whole point is that these discussions are completely pointless. One, because no one can ever know who would have done what in a different situation until it happens. Two, because the only thing that really ever matters about a player is what they do on the field. Thus far, on the field, Evans and Harrison are not in the same league. That is an observable fact. Saying Evans would have been better with a better QB situation is nothing but speculation with nothing to back it up either way. The only evidence we have is that when a different QB came to buffalo, Evan's numbers took a major hit. Obviously Buffalo thought Edwards gave them a better chance to win than Losman, therefore, by the only measuring stick we have, Edwards is a better QB. And Evans did much worse with a better QB. Therefore, even the speculation that Evans would have done as well as Marvin had he played with Manning is already flawed.

 

[sholditch]

Evans is a total joke who got lucky in about 4-5 games of one year and has been riding it ever since Lee Evans owner last year

Which 4 - 5 games of which single year did he get lucky?Here are some of your choices:2004:8 catches 92 yards 2 TD5 catches 101 yards 1 TD4 catches 110 yards 2 TD2005:5 catches 107 yards 1 TD5 catches 117 yards 3 TD3 catches 66 yards 2 TD2006:7 catches 145 yards 1 TD11 catches 265 yards 2 TD9 catches 94 yards 1 TD2007:2 catches 79 yards 2 TD9 catches 165 yards 1 TD5 catches 138 yards 1 TD

I've broken the comparison down. If you want to respond to that go ahead. Evans is not in Harrison's league and likely never will be. End of discussion as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Alluro]

Lee Evans is one of the ELITE WRs in the NFL. I don't how that translates into fantasy production but I would definitely rank him in the top 5 WRs on talent alone.

 

[Sebowski]

I voted for Moss, but I don;t think that is a knock on Evans.

Me likey Santana Moss. He just needs to stay healthy.

 

[munchkin]

Personal issues? He intentionally tanked it the whole time he was there. There's no use in getting in chicken-and-the-egg arguments about QBs and receivers. Would Jerry Rice have been as good had he not played with Joe Montana and Steve Young? Who knows? No one will ever know. But would you compare Evans to Rice just because Evans has had crappy QBs and Rice had great ones? No. This comparison makes just as much sense.

Jerry Rice would have had the same talent and work ethic whether he played with Montana or Joe Kapp, it's his PRODUCTION that would have been different. If you can't see the value in a quarterback receiver relationship then you are missing something.And yes I would compare Evans to Rice and I doubt that Evans would have been as productive as Rice was on those 49'er teams but I also don't think Marvin would have been as productive as Rice in the same situation. No-one can say FOR SURE how two players would produce under the same conditions but it is reasonable to assume that a player could be more productive with more talent around him. The Brady to Moss combination looked a lot better than the Brady Reche Caldwell/Jabar Gaffney combo's looked last year. Why do you think Brady petitioned so hard to bring Moss back? Don't you think Moss brought Brady's stats up just a little bit?

Of COURSE. Find me anything in what I said that would indicate anything else. If you're going to quote a post at least read it. My whole point is that these discussions are completely pointless. One, because no one can ever know who would have done what in a different situation until it happens. Two, because the only thing that really ever matters about a player is what they do on the field. Thus far, on the field, Evans and Harrison are not in the same league. That is an observable fact. Saying Evans would have been better with a better QB situation is nothing but speculation with nothing to back it up either way. The only evidence we have is that when a different QB came to buffalo, Evan's numbers took a major hit. Obviously Buffalo thought Edwards gave them a better chance to win than Losman, therefore, by the only measuring stick we have, Edwards is a better QB. And Evans did much worse with a better QB. Therefore, even the speculation that Evans would have done as well as Marvin had he played with Manning is already flawed.

You don't think it reasonable to assume that Lee Evans would perform better with Montana or Brady tossing him the ball? I can't be certain but I believe it's reasonable assumption. If you don't understand the relationships I have drawn up in my posts and how they relate to yours, I can't help that.

 

[sholditch]

I think any WR should perform better with a better QB but it's a far cry from an iron-clad cause-effect relationship. So even assuming a modest increase in production is already skirting the edge of fallacy. Assuming the only thing holding Evans back from being elite, and not just elite but fitting a comparison to one of the league's best receivers in this decade, is the play of his QBs, is a major fallacy. Furthermore, the fact that Edwards coming in had, if any effect at all (which can't be assumed), a negative effect on his numbers, pokes more holes in the theory. So not only is this argument attempting to manufacture evidence where there is none (speculating about his production with a better QB), it's ignoring the only relevant evidence where it does exist. Consider this: Bernard Berrian, considered by most to be a better than average receiver, but not considered elite by anyone except Vikings homers, had more yards and the same number of TDs as Evans last year, with the trifecta of Grossman, Griese, and Orton, on what was widely considered the worst offense in the league. Now, there's a good comparison for you. Evans is about equal to Bernard Berrian.

 

[Bri]

IMO Evans is more sly than dominant. He would be one of the best #2 WRs ever but he's gotta play the #1 role

 

[moderated]

Whole lotta Lee Evans over-rating goin on.

He doesn't work the intermediate routes well enough to be considered elite IMO. He's a perfect #2 but will never be a go to guy due to the weaknesses in his game.

Oh, and i love Evans going back to his college days, but he hasn't developed into a complete WR.

 

[munchkin]

I think any WR should perform better with a better QB but it's a far cry from an iron-clad cause-effect relationship. So even assuming a modest increase in production is already skirting the edge of fallacy. Assuming the only thing holding Evans back from being elite, and not just elite but fitting a comparison to one of the league's best receivers in this decade, is the play of his QBs, is a major fallacy. Furthermore, the fact that Edwards coming in had, if any effect at all (which can't be assumed), a negative effect on his numbers, pokes more holes in the theory. So not only is this argument attempting to manufacture evidence where there is none (speculating about his production with a better QB), it's ignoring the only relevant evidence where it does exist. Consider this: Bernard Berrian, considered by most to be a better than average receiver, but not considered elite by anyone except Vikings homers, had more yards and the same number of TDs as Evans last year, with the trifecta of Grossman, Griese, and Orton, on what was widely considered the worst offense in the league. Now, there's a good comparison for you. Evans is about equal to Bernard Berrian.

Chicago ranked 27th overall on offense Buffalo was 30th. In the passing game Chicago was rated 15th and Buffalo held their 30th ranking.http://www.coachescorner.com/n_input/nnweb...l_pass_rank.htm

And yes I would compare Evans to Rice and I doubt that Evans would have been as productive as Rice was on those 49'er teams but I also don't think Marvin would have been as productive as Rice in the same situation. No-one can say FOR SURE how two players would produce under the same conditions but it is reasonable to assume that a player could be more productive with more talent around him. The Brady to Moss combination looked a lot better than the Brady Reche Caldwell/Jabar Gaffney combo's looked last year. Why do you think Brady petitioned so hard to bring Moss back? Don't you think Moss brought Brady's stats up just a little bit?

I never said Evans was a fitting comparison in the sense you are implying. I said we could compare them and that Evans would arguably be better in that offense. Are you arguing with yourself because I can't follow you at all.

 

[SSOG]

Whole lotta Lee Evans over-rating goin on.He doesn't work the intermediate routes well enough to be considered elite IMO. He's a perfect #2 but will never be a go to guy due to the weaknesses in his game.Oh, and i love Evans going back to his college days, but he hasn't developed into a complete WR.

It's true that his intermediaries are a glaring weakness, but Smiff has demonstrated that a WR can be dominant in a game plan of nothing but screens and bombs.

 

[DoubleG]

I think the Harrison comparison is a little unfair. Harrison was not just a '#1' reciever, but one of the better recievers of all time. If it was between, say, a Santana Moss and an Anquan Boldin, I would put him much closer to Boldin, or in other words, a top 15-20 reciever talent wise.

If you took Boldin, Lav. Coles, Harrison, Steve Smith, and Santana Moss, threw them in a blender...

You'd have a WR smoothie??? The S. Moss comparison is spot on - both show flashes of greatness and then disappear for weeks (or seasons) at a time.