Legal questions (1 Viewer)

[McGarnicle]

State=PA. A guy marries a lady. Things don't work out, guy moves out and cohabitates with another lady for about a year. The guy and the first lady are still legally married. One day the guy goes to work, he's standing in a warehouse having a conversation, and there is a forklift accident. A pallet falls on his head and he dies.

The guy has no will. The wife is aware that the guy had an IRA from an old job that has about $9500 in it. She calls the bank and they tell her the money has already been disbursed, and they provide the address of the girlfriend. She's perplexed, starts asking questions and they clam up, and tell her to talk to a lawyer. Indirectly it is learned that the girlfriend obtained the guy's death certificate under false pretenses and she admits she has the money.

Questions:

With no will, does the IRA legally go to the wife? What exceptions exist, if any?

Is it a fair assumption that the girlfriend must have obtained the money through fraud, or is there a legal basis for her to claim the money? Again, their only relationship is boyfriend/girlfriend and they lived together.

With just the above facts known, in other words, a good presumption of fraud but no direct evidence -- if the wife files charges, is it likely that the state's attorney will run with it and conduct a full investigation? Considering the sum of money, will they go to the trouble to serve subpoenas to the bank, try to interrogate the girlfriend, etc?

Is there a basis to sue the bank, since they failed to do their due diligence to ensure the girlfriend was entitled to the money?

Or, let's say the girlfriend perpetuated a very convincing fraud, for example, she posed as the wife and produced believable documents -- does that lessen the bank's culpability?

Other info:

The guy had a minor child dependent. The wife had a daughter from a previous relationship, and during the course of the marriage, the guy legally adopted the daughter.

Time elapsed from the death to the money being disbursed to the girlfriend is about 2 months.

 

[Henry Ford]

Who was the listed beneficiary of the IRA?

 

[Henry Ford]

An IRA usually has a listed beneficiary - unless it was already an inherited IRA. The girlfriend may well have been the beneficiary at the time of death.

 

[McGarnicle]

An IRA usually has a listed beneficiary - unless it was already an inherited IRA. The girlfriend may well have been the beneficiary at the time of death.

Almost positive it was the wife. But yeah, duh, great question. Hopefully he didn't do something stupid. Stay tuned.

 

[johnnycakes]

To qualify as an IRA, the IRA vehicle must say the wife gets the whole thing unless she previously surrendered some or all of that right in writing.

 

[johnnycakes]

To the second part if your question, it is possible the wife may have surrendered some or all of her right to the IRA, but that would have been done in writing and the fiduciary would have had it on file before making any disbursement to anyone other than the husband or wife. It is possible... But would be HIGHLY unusual. Other than that... yeah, I think the girlfriend must have represented herself as the wife.

Anyone can get a death certificate, btw... You don't have to be related. I have had to do that before and it's pretty easy. I think it's a public record.

 

[McGarnicle]

Beneficiary was the wife at time of death. Any answers to the specific answers raised would be appreciated. Wife is in the process of retaining counsel, but any knowledgable advice/experience in this area would help greatly.

 

[Bucky86]

Who's better looking? Wife or GF?

 

[Fennis]

Are you the wife or the GF in this scenario?

 

[fourd]

Beneficiary was the wife at time of death. Any answers to the specific answers raised would be appreciated. Wife is in the process of retaining counsel, but any knowledgable advice/experience in this area would help greatly.

If the wife was the beneficiary at the time of the death she gets the money. The only way the bank pays that out is if the girlfriend posed as the wife. She would have had to sign a distribution form to get the money and the bank would have a copy of it as it would have to be reported to the IRS. Not sure what liability the bank would have, but if it was distributed as a check it would have been made out in the beneficiary's name (the wife.) So I imagine the gf would have to have signed the wife's name to endorse the check.

How do you know the wife was still the beneficiary? Did the bank tell you that?

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

Sorry, I deleted a response until we could find out that the wife was the beneficiary.

None of this can substitute having actual counsel do some research and give advice, but my initial thoughts are:

1. The wife has a claim for conversion against the girlfriend. I get that a claim against the girlfriend isn't ideal as she may be judgment proof, but it's an obvious case if what you're telling us is true.

2. The wife may have a claim for breach of fiduciary duty against the bank. I haven't checked, but I assume an IRA beneficiary has a fiduciary relationship with the plan administrator. If true that subjects the administrator to the highest standard of care. So any perceived deviation from best practices could open up a decent claim. But its still a factual matter, so a jury could conceivably find that the fiduciary distributed the funds erroneously even while exhibiting the highest standard of care.

3. I'm sure the State's Attorney's office would listen to you about prosecution, but I'd be focused on civil remedies.

4. If the GF's attorney is claiming that the GF has a legal entitlement to the money, I'd probably use the threat of going to the State's Attorney's office as leverage to get him to agree to an interpleader action (the money is placed in escrow with a court who is tasked to determine the proper owner).

 

[Johnny Rock]

McGarnicle...are you dead?

 

[Henry Ford]

McGarnicle...are you dead?

Busy banging the g/f.

 

[McGarnicle]

McGarnicle...are you dead?

Yes, I am dead. Thanks.

 

[bigbottom]

Sorry, I deleted a response until we could find out that the wife was the beneficiary.

None of this can substitute having actual counsel do some research and give advice, but my initial thoughts are:

1. The wife has a claim for conversion against the girlfriend. I get that a claim against the girlfriend isn't ideal as she may be judgment proof, but it's an obvious case if what you're telling us is true.

2. The wife may have a claim for breach of fiduciary duty against the bank. I haven't checked, but I assume an IRA beneficiary has a fiduciary relationship with the plan administrator. If true that subjects the administrator to the highest standard of care. So any perceived deviation from best practices could open up a decent claim. But its still a factual matter, so a jury could conceivably find that the fiduciary distributed the funds erroneously even while exhibiting the highest standard of care.

3. I'm sure the State's Attorney's office would listen to you about prosecution, but I'd be focused on civil remedies.

All great points.

4. If the GF's attorney is claiming that the GF has a legal entitlement to the money, I'd probably use the threat of going to the State's Attorney's office as leverage to get him to agree to an interpleader action (the money is placed in escrow with a court who is tasked to determine the proper owner).

I'm not sure about the rules in PA, but this approach could potentially get the wife's lawyer an ethics complaint in Texas.

Edit: But the wife could make the threat herself, though talking directly to the GF's lawyer is probably not a great idea.

Edit #2: Just checked PA ethics rules and it looks like No. 4 is a-okay in the Commonwealth. Interesting.

 

[Johnny Rock]

McGarnicle...are you dead?

Yes, I am dead. Thanks.

Sorry. Poor attempt at humor. I apologize.