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Leveraging an external offer against your own company (1 Viewer)

Evilgrin 72

Distributor of Pain
Anyone done it?

I've been at my current employer for nearly 15 years and am pretty well compensated, but I believe I'm actually worth a little more than they pay me.  Recently, an opportunity has basically fallen into my lap where another local company (not in the same space) is coming pretty hard to the hole and apparently, according to the headhunter, preparing an offer to send me that is going to pay me about 25-40% more than my current employer, plus a pretty massive year-end bonus structure.

All things being equal, I'd just as soon stay here.  I have iron-clad job security, a fully vested 401(k), maximum comp time, and a level of comfort with management and fellow employees.  The team I manage is packed with pretty solid associates, none of whom are disciplinary issues.  I have a lot to do, but I'm on cruise control most of the time.  When this offer comes through, I plan to talk to the COO about it.  It might just be too much money to pass up, but I suspect there's a more-than-decent chance that my current employer will attempt to retain me by matching (or coming close to it) the offer.  My question is : for anyone who has run this gambit successfully, was there any lingering resentment?  If you were deemed a "good soldier" prior, were you then viewed as a "mercenary" thereafter?  Believe it or not, I have a sterling reputation at this company and don't want to destroy that if I decide to stick around here.

 
There's no shame in coasting to retirement if you're already on a good path.  Hard to turn down another 25-40% though.

 
I recall seeing stats that something like 80% of people who take a counter offer are gone within 1 year (either let go or realize after a few months there was a reason they were looking in the first place )

Your situation seems a little different in that you were approached with this lucrative offer and not actively looking.  I think in your case it's worth it to ask but be prepared to walk 

It does suck giving up comfort, but for 40% I'd take the risk

 
This rarely works out well. You may get the money from your current company, but you will no longer be their loyal guy. The expectations of you will increase significant and their loyalty to you going forward will be nil. This is typically a short-term win but a long-term losing situation.

 
Usually a bad idea. You'll be one of the first ones to go when layoffs come (or before then).
I don't foresee layoffs coming, we're on a very solid growth trajectory.  Your point is well-taken, however, and that's my fear.  My devils advocate position would be : if that's the case, then they can simply not match the offer and let me walk.  Why would they give me a hefty pay raise to keep me in the fold just to then turn around and fire me?

 
proninja said:
Everyone at your company both above and below you would probably bolt for a 40% raise. We're all mercenaries unless we own the place. I left a small business to its closest competition for a 40% raise last year, and the owner congratulated me and told me he wished he could match (he legitimately couldn't, was less than two years into owning the company and paying himself roughly the difference between what I made and what I was offered.) We are still friendly, and that's after I left. 
This is the scenario I'd be hoping for if it went down this way.  I believe they will try to match, though and if they do, I'd almost surely stay.  It's the aftermath of THAT which concerns me somewhat.

 
I don't foresee layoffs coming, we're on a very solid growth trajectory.  Your point is well-taken, however, and that's my fear.  My devils advocate position would be : if that's the case, then they can simply not match the offer and let me walk.  Why would they give me a hefty pay raise to keep me in the fold just to then turn around and fire me?
Because they arent currently prepared to let you walk. They could change that in a couple months if they want to. 

 
There's no shame in coasting to retirement if you're already on a good path.  Hard to turn down another 25-40% though.
I wouldn't change my lifestyle much (if at all) at this point.  The additional salary would allow me to pre-pay or re-fi my mortgage down to a shorter note and crank my 401(k) and investment allocations up significantly.  It might be the difference between coasting to retirement at 65 or battling more toward retirement at 60-62.

 
I recall seeing stats that something like 80% of people who take a counter offer are gone within 1 year (either let go or realize after a few months there was a reason they were looking in the first place )

Your situation seems a little different in that you were approached with this lucrative offer and not actively looking.  I think in your case it's worth it to ask but be prepared to walk 

It does suck giving up comfort, but for 40% I'd take the risk
That's exactly where I am.  I'm not actively looking at all, but I might be willing to walk one last time for that significant an increase.  I wouldn't be playing chicken with my current employer in this instance, I would be legitimately prepared to leave, but if they do counter (I'd say it's 75% likely they would,) I just don't want to go from hero to pariah overnight.

 
This rarely works out well. You may get the money from your current company, but you will no longer be their loyal guy. The expectations of you will increase significant and their loyalty to you going forward will be nil. This is typically a short-term win but a long-term losing situation.
You just spelled out my concern, with the exception of the increased expectations bit.  I don't see that being the case, but could absolutely handle it if necessary.  Everything else you detail is precisely what worries me.

 
I'm in the recruiting world and while statistically it typically doesn't work out for a lot of people my personal opinion is that the only thing that really matters is your particular situation. I think this can be successfully done but a lot of it comes down to how you approach it with your COO.  You know him better than me obviously but your lowest risk approach is to be transparent with the guy.  Tell him you weren't looking but were approached with an opportunity and you listened.  Explain that they are coming in with a much higher offer and while you would prefer to stay put, the money gap is making you question the wisdom of that thinking.  Tell him you wouldn't expect them to match the new offer but did want to open up discussions about your compensation in light of this external offer.  Figure out whether you would be happy if they covered 25%, 50%, 75%, etc, of what the new position is offering.

 
Because they arent currently prepared to let you walk. They could change that in a couple months if they want to. 
I suppose.  I feel like they'd have a hard time getting someone as good as I am for less than what they'd have to counter-offer for, but perhaps I overestimate my worth to the company.

 
I'm in the recruiting world and while statistically it typically doesn't work out for a lot of people my personal opinion is that the only thing that really matters is your particular situation. I think this can be successfully done but a lot of it comes down to how you approach it with your COO.  You know him better than me obviously but your lowest risk approach is to be transparent with the guy.  Tell him you weren't looking but were approached with an opportunity and you listened.  Explain that they are coming in with a much higher offer and while you would prefer to stay put, the money gap is making you question the wisdom of that thinking.  Tell him you wouldn't expect them to match the new offer but did want to open up discussions about your compensation in light of this external offer.  Figure out whether you would be happy if they covered 25%, 50%, 75%, etc, of what the new position is offering.
I had planned to do exactly what I bolded, while stopping short of telling him that I don't expect them to match.  Let them make that determination on their own and I would work with whatever comes back, if anything.  I'd have a number in my head up front that would be my rubicon, so to speak.

 
I suppose.  I feel like they'd have a hard time getting someone as good as I am for less than what they'd have to counter-offer for, but perhaps I overestimate my worth to the company.
You could be very well be right. Sometimes, however, even COOs make emotional decisions. 

 
You need to put a price on your comp time, your comfort level with your employees and your employer.

You are replaceable.  You need to also understand that.

When was your last review?  Here is how I would play it, pending a firm offer in hand.  I would ask to sit down with the COO and ask him to review your salary package.  Let him know while you are happy there, you feel like you deserve more using industry comps (a higher base, a better year end bonus while hitting certain goals, higher profit sharing incentive, whatever your company offers).  Show how valuable you are to the company.  They are not going to match a 40% pay raise (I don't think), and even if they did, wouldn't that burn you up that you were working at a significant discount all this time?  You need to put a figure in mind as to what to realistically expect and do not forget to assign a price to the other things about your employer detailed below.  Let's say you would be happy with 20% increase, ask for 25%.  Then if they offer 10%, you need to do a bit of soul searching to decide if the grass is really greener on the other side.  

 
That's exactly where I am.  I'm not actively looking at all, but I might be willing to walk one last time for that significant an increase.  I wouldn't be playing chicken with my current employer in this instance, I would be legitimately prepared to leave, but if they do counter (I'd say it's 75% likely they would,) I just don't want to go from hero to pariah overnight.
I don't think you'll be a pariah unless your owners are #####.  We have a guy who left to take more money a few months ago, didn't like where he was at, and our owners welcomed him back with open arms.

 
It's all about how you present it to your current employer. If you go in and say, 'I wasn't looking, this just kind of fell into my lap... I like being here, I want to stay here but it did kind of open my eyes to the type of compensation I could expect on the open market... Would you be willing to increase my compensation to be more in line with this?

You put it to them this way and you haven't drawn any lines in the sand. Hopefully they see where you are coming from and everything can be handled amicably. No need to go the cutthroat route unless you have to.

 
Related question: I've been at the same company for about 20 years (first interned in 1996, full time 1998).  My company has been undergoing some restructuring and people have left or been let go.  Some have ended up in better situations and have me wondering if I'm selling myself short by never looking at other opportunities.  How does the whole headhunter / recruiter thing work? 

 
Related question: I've been at the same company for about 20 years (first interned in 1996, full time 1998).  My company has been undergoing some restructuring and people have left or been let go.  Some have ended up in better situations and have me wondering if I'm selling myself short by never looking at other opportunities.  How does the whole headhunter / recruiter thing work? 
Get on LinkedIn.  They will throw themselves at you. Be prepared to talk to chicks just out of college who know nothing about your industry trying to recruit you for a position that's a terrible fit.

But there are great upsides.  I put almost zero effort into my last job change.  Guy came to me with a good proposal for a client he worked with, I interviewed and got the job.

 
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You need to put a price on your comp time, your comfort level with your employees and your employer.

You are replaceable.  You need to also understand that.

When was your last review?  Here is how I would play it, pending a firm offer in hand.  I would ask to sit down with the COO and ask him to review your salary package.  Let him know while you are happy there, you feel like you deserve more using industry comps (a higher base, a better year end bonus while hitting certain goals, higher profit sharing incentive, whatever your company offers).  Show how valuable you are to the company.  They are not going to match a 40% pay raise (I don't think), and even if they did, wouldn't that burn you up that you were working at a significant discount all this time?  You need to put a figure in mind as to what to realistically expect and do not forget to assign a price to the other things about your employer detailed below.  Let's say you would be happy with 20% increase, ask for 25%.  Then if they offer 10%, you need to do a bit of soul searching to decide if the grass is really greener on the other side.  
Last review was in February, they're actually due 12/31 of each year, but they are never done on time (I do mine for my employees on their hire date, every year, without fail BTW.)  So, I'm nearing review time anyway.

The crux of it really is assigning a value to the positives I have staying here (as detailed earlier.)  I need to really find a hard # above/below which I would have a clear decision.

 
Get on LinkedIn.  They will throw themselves at you.
I am and I've gotten some requests.  Some look legit, some are blank profiles.  Some have contacted me about completely unrelated jobs.  Just thinking there's probably a better way to go about it than responding to random requests.

 
I don't think you'll be a pariah unless your owners are #####.  We have a guy who left to take more money a few months ago, didn't like where he was at, and our owners welcomed him back with open arms.
That happened once before a few years back with the QA Manager.  That's what gives me hope that I can pull this off without generating acrimony.  I just don't know if I'm being realistic or not.

 
It's all about how you present it to your current employer. If you go in and say, 'I wasn't looking, this just kind of fell into my lap... I like being here, I want to stay here but it did kind of open my eyes to the type of compensation I could expect on the open market... Would you be willing to increase my compensation to be more in line with this?

You put it to them this way and you haven't drawn any lines in the sand. Hopefully they see where you are coming from and everything can be handled amicably. No need to go the cutthroat route unless you have to.
That's precisely my plan.  I don't plan to go cutthroat at all.  Either they'll counter with something I'd be comfortable accepting or they won't and I'll leave.

 
EG, I accepted a counter offer at my current job, 2 years ago, when I had been here for 2 years.  It was for 15% more.  Seems to still be doing ok here, and I've been told I'm getting another promotion at end of year.  

 
I am and I've gotten some requests.  Some look legit, some are blank profiles.  Some have contacted me about completely unrelated jobs.  Just thinking there's probably a better way to go about it than responding to random requests.
I get correspondence through LinkedIn all the time.  A lot of it is garbage.  This one, the guy had an open position the title of which sounded just like my current one.  I wrote back and just said : "sure, send me the info."  It all went from there.  Only one I ever answered of hundreds received.

 
EG, I accepted a counter offer at my current job, 2 years ago, when I had been here for 2 years.  It was for 15% more.  Seems to still be doing ok here, and I've been told I'm getting another promotion at end of year.  
Thanks man.  No resentment from management or "punishment" through added responsibilities or anything?

 
Thanks man.  No resentment from management or "punishment" through added responsibilities or anything?
Not at all, as far as I can tell anyhow. I work for a different Director now than the one who gave me the pay bump to match.  But nothing changed about my responsibilities at my old position, and I was there for another year before taking a lateral move within the company.

 
Not at all, as far as I can tell anyhow. I work for a different Director now than the one who gave me the pay bump to match.  But nothing changed about my responsibilities at my old position, and I was there for another year before taking a lateral move within the company.
That's the kind of "story" I was hoping to hear, thanks.

 
What ever happened to Clyde?
I wish I knew.  He might be dead, he might be sweeping floors and emptying trash bins at another company.  I prefer to think he's in a rocking chair somewhere sipping Courvoisier and saying : "Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan, look......"

 
That's precisely my plan.  I don't plan to go cutthroat at all.  Either they'll counter with something I'd be comfortable accepting or they won't and I'll leave.
if you end up going this route a lot of times putting in your notice gets the true best offer. You may also want to consider offering them more than 2 weeks. If they can't match (maybe they are bluffing) you say, alright guys I appreciate you considering this but I just can't pass up X%. I have a lot of loyalty to this company and I appreciate everything you guys have done for me. I'd be happy to stay on for a full month and help in the transition as much as possible.

By doing this, you cement in their minds, 'look, he's not trying to shake us down, I'd do the same thing in his position etc...' So they may come back with one last offer or, let's say you take a new jobs and it sucks, or you're laid off etc... you've given them every reason to believe you handled this in the most forthright manner and no bridges have been burned.

 
if you end up going this route a lot of times putting in your notice gets the true best offer. You may also want to consider offering them more than 2 weeks. If they can't match (maybe they are bluffing) you say, alright guys I appreciate you considering this but I just can't pass up X%. I have a lot of loyalty to this company and I appreciate everything you guys have done for me. I'd be happy to stay on for a full month and help in the transition as much as possible.

By doing this, you cement in their minds, 'look, he's not trying to shake us down, I'd do the same thing in his position etc...' So they may come back with one last offer or, let's say you take a new jobs and it sucks, or you're laid off etc... you've given them every reason to believe you handled this in the most forthright manner and no bridges have been burned.
I'd very much like to do that - in fact, I'd prefer to even finish out the year here.  The problem will be if the new company needs me to start sooner than that.  If I tell them I can't start for a month and they rescind the offer, I'm ####ed.

 
This is a simple business decision and negotiation process.

What do you want from this? Ideally.  Go for that (stay at your own place, they match the offer)

What do you want from this that would make you happy? Be glad if you end up where you are with close to the same offer but maybe 10% or so apart.

What do you need to make you happy? That's for you to decide, and the pivot point of the decision.  At some point, 10% less, 20% less... it's worth you taking the personal risk (in terms of finances long term/stability and heading to a new environment which presents personal and economic risk itself) to say thanks but no thanks.

Personally, and this would be my tact at a company where I've been for a long time, like and respect the management and feel it's mutual: Be honest, but firm.  

Tell them you have an offer, tell them what it is (maybe even inflate it like 10%).  Tell them that you'd prefer to stay here, but their offer is a large increase and you'd have to be true to yourself and future and strongly consider it.

Feel them out as to the response.  Is it like, hey, we love you, but we aren't even in the same ballpark - in that case, if you really want to stay, tell them what is just above your lower limit to stay... maybe they take that, maybe you get squeezed down to your bare minimum, but still justifies you not moving.  If they recognize that this is a real offer and want to work with you, see how far they are willing to be pushed in terms of matching or coming close.

That said, always negotiate from a position of strength. You have the leverage, but its really only leverage if they think (and likely inside you actually feel) ready to leave them.  Which comes back to the key question above.  What is your pivot point? If it's say 20% less pay and you'd stay and they offer you that, stay and be happy. If they don't offer that then leave - and be proud.  Just be in a place where your decision is made, and your employer will play into where you'd be glad to stay, or happy to go, even if somewhat reluctantly.

Hope that helps. 

 
I don't foresee layoffs coming, we're on a very solid growth trajectory.  Your point is well-taken, however, and that's my fear.  My devils advocate position would be : if that's the case, then they can simply not match the offer and let me walk.  Why would they give me a hefty pay raise to keep me in the fold just to then turn around and fire me?
So you have time to train your replacement

 
I wish I knew.  He might be dead, he might be sweeping floors and emptying trash bins at another company.  I prefer to think he's in a rocking chair somewhere sipping Courvoisier and saying : "Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan, look......"
:lmao:  

"Gather 'round, kids...Grampa Clyde's gonna tell you the story of the dookie bandit...."

 
If the other company is solid with a good reputation, I would walk.   You are talking about a nice chunk of change.  I just took a new position at my company after many years.  I did not really have a choice and did not really want it even though it was a nice pay raise.  I was happy where I was at.  The new position has made work interesting again.  Sometimes, a new challenge instead of being on cruise control can be refreshing. 

You need to do some research on the bonus, vacation time, benefits, and 401K at the new company.   More money may be covering up weak benefits.  How is their 401K structured?  Who manages it and what is the EE match?  Ask for their insurance info.  How much vacation time are you giving up?  You may be able to squeeze more vacation time out of the new place since it sounds like they are really interested in you. 

 
This is a simple business decision and negotiation process.

What do you want from this? Ideally.  Go for that (stay at your own place, they match the offer)

What do you want from this that would make you happy? Be glad if you end up where you are with close to the same offer but maybe 10% or so apart.

What do you need to make you happy? That's for you to decide, and the pivot point of the decision.  At some point, 10% less, 20% less... it's worth you taking the personal risk (in terms of finances long term/stability and heading to a new environment which presents personal and economic risk itself) to say thanks but no thanks.

Personally, and this would be my tact at a company where I've been for a long time, like and respect the management and feel it's mutual: Be honest, but firm.  

Tell them you have an offer, tell them what it is (maybe even inflate it like 10%).  Tell them that you'd prefer to stay here, but their offer is a large increase and you'd have to be true to yourself and future and strongly consider it.

Feel them out as to the response.  Is it like, hey, we love you, but we aren't even in the same ballpark - in that case, if you really want to stay, tell them what is just above your lower limit to stay... maybe they take that, maybe you get squeezed down to your bare minimum, but still justifies you not moving.  If they recognize that this is a real offer and want to work with you, see how far they are willing to be pushed in terms of matching or coming close.

That said, always negotiate from a position of strength. You have the leverage, but its really only leverage if they think (and likely inside you actually feel) ready to leave them.  Which comes back to the key question above.  What is your pivot point? If it's say 20% less pay and you'd stay and they offer you that, stay and be happy. If they don't offer that then leave - and be proud.  Just be in a place where your decision is made, and your employer will play into where you'd be glad to stay, or happy to go, even if somewhat reluctantly.

Hope that helps. 
Very much so.  This is exactly what I plan to decide/do.  Thanks GB.

My reason for starting the thread is basically because I feel the most likely eventuality is that I :

a) Get the offer from company B

b) Present it as detailed to the COO

c) Get a counter offer within 24 hours or so

d) Accept the counter offer and stay for a substantial pay increase

I'm very prepared for it to play out exactly like this, I just want to be certain that if it does, that I'm not going to be viewed as a turncoat of some sort.  People around here seem predisposed not to believe anything anyone says when it comes to stuff like this.  I call out very infrequently but every time I do, people assume it's the "Irish Flu" (it never is.) I don't know if they'll believe that this just fell into my lap and that I wasn't actively seeking an offer to use as leverage for a pay raise, even though it's the honest-to-God truth.

 
That happened once before a few years back with the QA Manager.  That's what gives me hope that I can pull this off without generating acrimony.  I just don't know if I'm being realistic or not.
You can do this.  You can do this with out overtly leveraging them.  Talk straightforward with your boss.  Tell him you were not looking and have been very happy right were you are.  Tell him you were approached by a head hunter, not the other way around, and they  are enticing you with 40% more.  Tell him you hate to leave family, and you do think of them as family, but are thinking about it since you are a responsible husband and father, and you did not want him to learn of it from outsiders.  Don't bring up the subject of more money.  just let him know that the situation has you considering the offer since as a family man you must.  Your COO will not feel leveraged by you, but rather by circumstances.  He will offer something as his choice, not at your behest.  When you gratefully and graciously accept without ever having made demands or even suggestions you will be just fine with your reputation with your employer. 

 
So you have time to train your replacement
Best of luck to whomever that is.  I've developed a very specific set of skills (/Neeson) based on over a decade of experience in our rather unique environment.  No amount of training can replace that. 95% of my job is making decisions on the fly and my positive result rate is a combination of the aforementioned experience and an inherent ability to make calculated judgments on situations very quickly. I don't know what % of the available workforce has the innate ability to do what I do, and even those that may would have a long and hard period of adjustment.

"A what period of adjustment?  Uh huh huh huh" - Butt-head

 
:lmao:  

"Gather 'round, kids...Grampa Clyde's gonna tell you the story of the dookie bandit...."
I would virtually guarantee that he's told the story at some point.  What I wouldn't give to have a recording of that... I'd love to hear the tale told from his perspective.

 
If the other company is solid with a good reputation, I would walk.   You are talking about a nice chunk of change.  I just took a new position at my company after many years.  I did not really have a choice and did not really want it even though it was a nice pay raise.  I was happy where I was at.  The new position has made work interesting again.  Sometimes, a new challenge instead of being on cruise control can be refreshing. 

You need to do some research on the bonus, vacation time, benefits, and 401K at the new company.   More money may be covering up weak benefits.  How is their 401K structured?  Who manages it and what is the EE match?  Ask for their insurance info.  How much vacation time are you giving up?  You may be able to squeeze more vacation time out of the new place since it sounds like they are really interested in you. 
I'm giving up at least a week of vacation time, minimum.  Possibly 2.  The bonus information is fairly solid, but there is some ambiguity on precisely how the bonus is earned.  I've asked but am still waiting on more details on much of what you list here.

The new challenge vs. cruise control point is very well-taken.  Often, I feel like I want new challenges and other times, I'm happy to be on cruise control.  It's a very legitimate point and one on which I am going to have to spend some serious thought.

 
You can do this.  You can do this with out overtly leveraging them.  Talk straightforward with your boss.  Tell him you were not looking and have been very happy right were you are.  Tell him you were approached by a head hunter, not the other way around, and they  are enticing you with 40% more.  Tell him you hate to leave family, and you do think of them as family, but are thinking about it since you are a responsible husband and father, and you did not want him to learn of it from outsiders.  Don't bring up the subject of more money.  just let him know that the situation has you considering the offer since as a family man you must.  Your COO will not feel leveraged by you, but rather by circumstances.  He will offer something as his choice, not at your behest.  When you gratefully and graciously accept without ever having made demands or even suggestions you will be just fine with your reputation with your employer. 
Thanks GB.  That is my exact strategic plan and this makes me feel a lot better about it.

 
Anyone done it?

I've been at my current employer for nearly 15 years and am pretty well compensated, but I believe I'm actually worth a little more than they pay me.  Recently, an opportunity has basically fallen into my lap where another local company (not in the same space) is coming pretty hard to the hole and apparently, according to the headhunter, preparing an offer to send me that is going to pay me about 25-40% more than my current employer, plus a pretty massive year-end bonus structure.

All things being equal, I'd just as soon stay here.  I have iron-clad job security, a fully vested 401(k), maximum comp time, and a level of comfort with management and fellow employees.  The team I manage is packed with pretty solid associates, none of whom are disciplinary issues.  I have a lot to do, but I'm on cruise control most of the time.  When this offer comes through, I plan to talk to the COO about it.  It might just be too much money to pass up, but I suspect there's a more-than-decent chance that my current employer will attempt to retain me by matching (or coming close to it) the offer.  My question is : for anyone who has run this gambit successfully, was there any lingering resentment?  If you were deemed a "good soldier" prior, were you then viewed as a "mercenary" thereafter?  Believe it or not, I have a sterling reputation at this company and don't want to destroy that if I decide to stick around here.
If you do take the offer, let me be the first to congratulate you on passing the $1M/yr mark.   I remember that moment like it was yesterday.

 

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