LGBT, LGBTQ, LGBT+ Thread (1 Viewer)

[the moops]

Still waiting for the link for 50K kids annually getting stuff chopped off or being made infertile by hormone treatment.

Well earlier he told us that parents getting jailed in Canada because of disagreeing with their child over stuff like this happened "very frequently" or something to that effect. Which resulted in two links to prove that. So I imagine, with similar math, a few links will prove that the 50K number is fact

 

[Max Power]

I've come around to thinking this stuff is an INSANE topic for those under 18. There is no single size its all discussion on the issues. There is no single point of treatment that addresses everything. People pushing this stuff are hurting kids. Letting your kids be who they are is one thing. Anyone promoting it is awful.

What was your position before and what was it that made you rethink things?

I thought keeping an open mind was ok and even a small level of exposure was ok.

Little did I know just how major of a topic this is in places like middle school. They think it's cool to be in this community and are only learning about it through people who are actively promoting it.

My breaking point was my middle son telling the whole family at the dinner table that he is pan sexual. I had a nice long and honest discussion with him. He is being influenced by his peer group (band kids) and frankly has no clue what he is talking about.

Several days later he comes back and says he is also non-binary and wants to go by they/them. Again we had another long talk and he confessed that his school has about 10 non-binary kids and a another handful who fall in the LGBTQ community.

My son doesn't understand what he is talking about and isnt mature enough for these conversations, but is being constantly exposed to it through his peer group. So like I said l, I think the over exposure is harmful.

 

[Sunshine6854]

I've come around to thinking this stuff is an INSANE topic for those under 18. There is no single size its all discussion on the issues. There is no single point of treatment that addresses everything. People pushing this stuff are hurting kids. Letting your kids be who they are is one thing. Anyone promoting it is awful.

What was your position before and what was it that made you rethink things?

I thought keeping an open mind was and even a small level was ok.

Little did I know just how major of a topic this is in places like middle school. They think it's cool to be in this community and are only learning about it through people who are actively promoting it.

My breaking point was my middle son telling the whole family at the dinner table that he is pan sexual. I had a nice long and honest discussion with him. He is being influenced by his peer group (band kids) and frankly has no clue what he is talking about.

Several days later he comes back and says he is also non-binary and wants to go by they/them. Again we had another long talk and he confessed that his school has about 10 non-binary kids and a another handful who fall in the LGBTQ community.

My son doesn't understand what he is talking about and isnt mature enough for these conversations, but is being constantly exposed to it through his peer group. So like I said l, I think the over exposure is harmful.

Kids have been exposed to stupid things from their peer group since the dawn of time.

It sounds like you handled it exactly like you should.

Well done.

 

[Max Power]

I've come around to thinking this stuff is an INSANE topic for those under 18. There is no single size its all discussion on the issues. There is no single point of treatment that addresses everything. People pushing this stuff are hurting kids. Letting your kids be who they are is one thing. Anyone promoting it is awful.

What is your line of difference between promoting and being an accepting parent??

To me it seems like people equate allowing with promoting it, and I don't agree with that so was curious your thoughts.

I replied to little coat with more along my line of thinking. But ultimately the LGBTQ community is exploding in the younger generations. This is some mature material that I know they dont fully grasp.

Sure there can be some outliers, but the majority of kids dont really comprehend the issues at play. The exposure comes from other kids, other parents and even now the schools want to have a finger in the pot by being inclusive to kids who now start thinking this is normal and not the rare thing it really is.

 

[timschochet]

I've come around to thinking this stuff is an INSANE topic for those under 18. There is no single size its all discussion on the issues. There is no single point of treatment that addresses everything. People pushing this stuff are hurting kids. Letting your kids be who they are is one thing. Anyone promoting it is awful.

What was your position before and what was it that made you rethink things?

I thought keeping an open mind was ok and even a small level of exposure was ok.

Little did I know just how major of a topic this is in places like middle school. They think it's cool to be in this community and are only learning about it through people who are actively promoting it.

My breaking point was my middle son telling the whole family at the dinner table that he is pan sexual. I had a nice long and honest discussion with him. He is being influenced by his peer group (band kids) and frankly has no clue what he is talking about.

Several days later he comes back and says he is also non-binary and wants to go by they/them. Again we had another long talk and he confessed that his school has about 10 non-binary kids and a another handful who fall in the LGBTQ community.

My son doesn't understand what he is talking about and isnt mature enough for these conversations, but is being constantly exposed to it through his peer group. So like I said l, I think the over exposure is harmful.

How is this harmful? If he really doesn’t understand then he’ll get over it soon enough. In the meantime if he wants to be called “they” why not do it?

I honestly don’t see anything harmful about any of this. It’s not like they’re being peer pressured to take drugs, which would be a real concern. There are troubled kids out there who really do suffer from gender dysphoria. If increased openness and acceptance helps even one of them then it’s worth it.

 

[Sunshine6854]

I've come around to thinking this stuff is an INSANE topic for those under 18. There is no single size its all discussion on the issues. There is no single point of treatment that addresses everything. People pushing this stuff are hurting kids. Letting your kids be who they are is one thing. Anyone promoting it is awful.

What was your position before and what was it that made you rethink things?

I thought keeping an open mind was ok and even a small level of exposure was ok.

Little did I know just how major of a topic this is in places like middle school. They think it's cool to be in this community and are only learning about it through people who are actively promoting it.

My breaking point was my middle son telling the whole family at the dinner table that he is pan sexual. I had a nice long and honest discussion with him. He is being influenced by his peer group (band kids) and frankly has no clue what he is talking about.

Several days later he comes back and says he is also non-binary and wants to go by they/them. Again we had another long talk and he confessed that his school has about 10 non-binary kids and a another handful who fall in the LGBTQ community.

My son doesn't understand what he is talking about and isnt mature enough for these conversations, but is being constantly exposed to it through his peer group. So like I said l, I think the over exposure is harmful.

How is this harmful? If he really doesn’t understand then he’ll get over it soon enough. In the meantime if he wants to be called “they” why not do it?

I honestly don’t see anything harmful about any of this. It’s not like they’re being peer pressured to take drugs, which would be a real concern. There are troubled kids out there who really do suffer from gender dysphoria. If increased openness and acceptance helps even one of them then it’s worth it.

While I think it's fine for an adult to make that decision, I think it makes sense to steer young people toward traditional roles until they're actually old enough to understand roles, sexuality, etc.

 

[Max Power]

I've come around to thinking this stuff is an INSANE topic for those under 18. There is no single size its all discussion on the issues. There is no single point of treatment that addresses everything. People pushing this stuff are hurting kids. Letting your kids be who they are is one thing. Anyone promoting it is awful.

What was your position before and what was it that made you rethink things?

I thought keeping an open mind was ok and even a small level of exposure was ok.

Little did I know just how major of a topic this is in places like middle school. They think it's cool to be in this community and are only learning about it through people who are actively promoting it.

My breaking point was my middle son telling the whole family at the dinner table that he is pan sexual. I had a nice long and honest discussion with him. He is being influenced by his peer group (band kids) and frankly has no clue what he is talking about.

Several days later he comes back and says he is also non-binary and wants to go by they/them. Again we had another long talk and he confessed that his school has about 10 non-binary kids and a another handful who fall in the LGBTQ community.

My son doesn't understand what he is talking about and isnt mature enough for these conversations, but is being constantly exposed to it through his peer group. So like I said l, I think the over exposure is harmful.

How is this harmful? If he really doesn’t understand then he’ll get over it soon enough. In the meantime if he wants to be called “they” why not do it?

I honestly don’t see anything harmful about any of this. It’s not like they’re being peer pressured to take drugs, which would be a real concern. There are troubled kids out there who really do suffer from gender dysphoria. If increased openness and acceptance helps even one of them then it’s worth it.

Arent the LGBTQ at increased risk of violence and self harm? There are plenty of reasons to be concerned with a 13 year old running around bragging about his sexual orientation.

I dont want him going down a path he doeant understand while other people cheerlead him making these decisions.

Is embracing this worth it even if it hurts multiple kids?

 

[timschochet]

I've come around to thinking this stuff is an INSANE topic for those under 18. There is no single size its all discussion on the issues. There is no single point of treatment that addresses everything. People pushing this stuff are hurting kids. Letting your kids be who they are is one thing. Anyone promoting it is awful.

What was your position before and what was it that made you rethink things?

I thought keeping an open mind was ok and even a small level of exposure was ok.

Little did I know just how major of a topic this is in places like middle school. They think it's cool to be in this community and are only learning about it through people who are actively promoting it.

My breaking point was my middle son telling the whole family at the dinner table that he is pan sexual. I had a nice long and honest discussion with him. He is being influenced by his peer group (band kids) and frankly has no clue what he is talking about.

Several days later he comes back and says he is also non-binary and wants to go by they/them. Again we had another long talk and he confessed that his school has about 10 non-binary kids and a another handful who fall in the LGBTQ community.

My son doesn't understand what he is talking about and isnt mature enough for these conversations, but is being constantly exposed to it through his peer group. So like I said l, I think the over exposure is harmful.

How is this harmful? If he really doesn’t understand then he’ll get over it soon enough. In the meantime if he wants to be called “they” why not do it?

I honestly don’t see anything harmful about any of this. It’s not like they’re being peer pressured to take drugs, which would be a real concern. There are troubled kids out there who really do suffer from gender dysphoria. If increased openness and acceptance helps even one of them then it’s worth it.

Arent the LGBTQ at increased risk of violence and self harm? There are plenty of reasons to be concerned with a 13 year old running around bragging about his sexual orientation.

I dont want him going down a path he doeant understand while other people cheerlead him making these decisions.

Is embracing this worth it even if it hurts multiple kids?

I would say yes. The “hurt” you’re discussing is due to ignorance and intolerance, and it will only be solved by understanding, acceptance and love.

 

[Max Power]

I've come around to thinking this stuff is an INSANE topic for those under 18. There is no single size its all discussion on the issues. There is no single point of treatment that addresses everything. People pushing this stuff are hurting kids. Letting your kids be who they are is one thing. Anyone promoting it is awful.

What was your position before and what was it that made you rethink things?

I thought keeping an open mind was ok and even a small level of exposure was ok.

Little did I know just how major of a topic this is in places like middle school. They think it's cool to be in this community and are only learning about it through people who are actively promoting it.

My breaking point was my middle son telling the whole family at the dinner table that he is pan sexual. I had a nice long and honest discussion with him. He is being influenced by his peer group (band kids) and frankly has no clue what he is talking about.

Several days later he comes back and says he is also non-binary and wants to go by they/them. Again we had another long talk and he confessed that his school has about 10 non-binary kids and a another handful who fall in the LGBTQ community.

My son doesn't understand what he is talking about and isnt mature enough for these conversations, but is being constantly exposed to it through his peer group. So like I said l, I think the over exposure is harmful.

How is this harmful? If he really doesn’t understand then he’ll get over it soon enough. In the meantime if he wants to be called “they” why not do it?

I honestly don’t see anything harmful about any of this. It’s not like they’re being peer pressured to take drugs, which would be a real concern. There are troubled kids out there who really do suffer from gender dysphoria. If increased openness and acceptance helps even one of them then it’s worth it.

Arent the LGBTQ at increased risk of violence and self harm? There are plenty of reasons to be concerned with a 13 year old running around bragging about his sexual orientation.

I dont want him going down a path he doeant understand while other people cheerlead him making these decisions.

Is embracing this worth it even if it hurts multiple kids?

I would say yes. The “hurt” you’re discussing is due to ignorance and intolerance, and it will only be solved by understanding, acceptance and love.

You arent a parent are you? It's my job to protect my children. Telling him to be proud, while likely going through a phase, and exposing himself to ignorance, intolerance, and potentially long term psychological issues is not being a good father.

If he was serious about it, I'd support him. I dont think he is because he cant answer basic questions about this stuff. It's our society promoting it and I believe it's all influenced

 

[timschochet]

I've come around to thinking this stuff is an INSANE topic for those under 18. There is no single size its all discussion on the issues. There is no single point of treatment that addresses everything. People pushing this stuff are hurting kids. Letting your kids be who they are is one thing. Anyone promoting it is awful.

What was your position before and what was it that made you rethink things?

I thought keeping an open mind was ok and even a small level of exposure was ok.

Little did I know just how major of a topic this is in places like middle school. They think it's cool to be in this community and are only learning about it through people who are actively promoting it.

My breaking point was my middle son telling the whole family at the dinner table that he is pan sexual. I had a nice long and honest discussion with him. He is being influenced by his peer group (band kids) and frankly has no clue what he is talking about.

Several days later he comes back and says he is also non-binary and wants to go by they/them. Again we had another long talk and he confessed that his school has about 10 non-binary kids and a another handful who fall in the LGBTQ community.

My son doesn't understand what he is talking about and isnt mature enough for these conversations, but is being constantly exposed to it through his peer group. So like I said l, I think the over exposure is harmful.

How is this harmful? If he really doesn’t understand then he’ll get over it soon enough. In the meantime if he wants to be called “they” why not do it?

I honestly don’t see anything harmful about any of this. It’s not like they’re being peer pressured to take drugs, which would be a real concern. There are troubled kids out there who really do suffer from gender dysphoria. If increased openness and acceptance helps even one of them then it’s worth it.

Arent the LGBTQ at increased risk of violence and self harm? There are plenty of reasons to be concerned with a 13 year old running around bragging about his sexual orientation.

I dont want him going down a path he doeant understand while other people cheerlead him making these decisions.

Is embracing this worth it even if it hurts multiple kids?

I would say yes. The “hurt” you’re discussing is due to ignorance and intolerance, and it will only be solved by understanding, acceptance and love.

You arent a parent are you? It's my job to protect my children. Telling him to be proud, while likely going through a phase, and exposing himself to ignorance, intolerance, and potentially long term psychological issues is not being a good father.

If he was serious about it, I'd support him. I dont think he is because he cant answer basic questions about this stuff. It's our society promoting it and I believe it's all influenced

I am a parent. I have two daughters. If either had gender dysphoria I would do my best to be accepting and loving. They aren’t but they know people that are and treat them with respect. They are generally in support of trans, and I’m proud of them for not being intolerant like our generation has been.

 

[Max Power]

I've come around to thinking this stuff is an INSANE topic for those under 18. There is no single size its all discussion on the issues. There is no single point of treatment that addresses everything. People pushing this stuff are hurting kids. Letting your kids be who they are is one thing. Anyone promoting it is awful.

What was your position before and what was it that made you rethink things?

I thought keeping an open mind was ok and even a small level of exposure was ok.

Little did I know just how major of a topic this is in places like middle school. They think it's cool to be in this community and are only learning about it through people who are actively promoting it.

My breaking point was my middle son telling the whole family at the dinner table that he is pan sexual. I had a nice long and honest discussion with him. He is being influenced by his peer group (band kids) and frankly has no clue what he is talking about.

Several days later he comes back and says he is also non-binary and wants to go by they/them. Again we had another long talk and he confessed that his school has about 10 non-binary kids and a another handful who fall in the LGBTQ community.

My son doesn't understand what he is talking about and isnt mature enough for these conversations, but is being constantly exposed to it through his peer group. So like I said l, I think the over exposure is harmful.

How is this harmful? If he really doesn’t understand then he’ll get over it soon enough. In the meantime if he wants to be called “they” why not do it?

I honestly don’t see anything harmful about any of this. It’s not like they’re being peer pressured to take drugs, which would be a real concern. There are troubled kids out there who really do suffer from gender dysphoria. If increased openness and acceptance helps even one of them then it’s worth it.

Arent the LGBTQ at increased risk of violence and self harm? There are plenty of reasons to be concerned with a 13 year old running around bragging about his sexual orientation.

I dont want him going down a path he doeant understand while other people cheerlead him making these decisions.

Is embracing this worth it even if it hurts multiple kids?

I would say yes. The “hurt” you’re discussing is due to ignorance and intolerance, and it will only be solved by understanding, acceptance and love.

You arent a parent are you? It's my job to protect my children. Telling him to be proud, while likely going through a phase, and exposing himself to ignorance, intolerance, and potentially long term psychological issues is not being a good father.

If he was serious about it, I'd support him. I dont think he is because he cant answer basic questions about this stuff. It's our society promoting it and I believe it's all influenced

I am a parent. I have two daughters. If either had gender dysphoria I would do my best to be accepting and loving. They aren’t but they know people that are and treat them with respect. They are generally in support of trans, and I’m proud of them for not being intolerant like our generation has been.

And I'm not going to let a 13 year old boy self diagnose gender dysphoria. I see his maturity level daily and he isn't mature enough for this.

From talking to him, he doesnt have more than a surface level understanding of any of this.

I love him and will support him regardless. What baffles me is to see adults and society who don't even know the kid tell him how brave he is and that this is all perfectly fine.

 

[timschochet]

I've come around to thinking this stuff is an INSANE topic for those under 18. There is no single size its all discussion on the issues. There is no single point of treatment that addresses everything. People pushing this stuff are hurting kids. Letting your kids be who they are is one thing. Anyone promoting it is awful.

What was your position before and what was it that made you rethink things?

I thought keeping an open mind was ok and even a small level of exposure was ok.

Little did I know just how major of a topic this is in places like middle school. They think it's cool to be in this community and are only learning about it through people who are actively promoting it.

My breaking point was my middle son telling the whole family at the dinner table that he is pan sexual. I had a nice long and honest discussion with him. He is being influenced by his peer group (band kids) and frankly has no clue what he is talking about.

Several days later he comes back and says he is also non-binary and wants to go by they/them. Again we had another long talk and he confessed that his school has about 10 non-binary kids and a another handful who fall in the LGBTQ community.

My son doesn't understand what he is talking about and isnt mature enough for these conversations, but is being constantly exposed to it through his peer group. So like I said l, I think the over exposure is harmful.

How is this harmful? If he really doesn’t understand then he’ll get over it soon enough. In the meantime if he wants to be called “they” why not do it?

I honestly don’t see anything harmful about any of this. It’s not like they’re being peer pressured to take drugs, which would be a real concern. There are troubled kids out there who really do suffer from gender dysphoria. If increased openness and acceptance helps even one of them then it’s worth it.

Arent the LGBTQ at increased risk of violence and self harm? There are plenty of reasons to be concerned with a 13 year old running around bragging about his sexual orientation.

I dont want him going down a path he doeant understand while other people cheerlead him making these decisions.

Is embracing this worth it even if it hurts multiple kids?

I would say yes. The “hurt” you’re discussing is due to ignorance and intolerance, and it will only be solved by understanding, acceptance and love.

You arent a parent are you? It's my job to protect my children. Telling him to be proud, while likely going through a phase, and exposing himself to ignorance, intolerance, and potentially long term psychological issues is not being a good father.

If he was serious about it, I'd support him. I dont think he is because he cant answer basic questions about this stuff. It's our society promoting it and I believe it's all influenced

I am a parent. I have two daughters. If either had gender dysphoria I would do my best to be accepting and loving. They aren’t but they know people that are and treat them with respect. They are generally in support of trans, and I’m proud of them for not being intolerant like our generation has been.

And I'm not going to let a 13 year old boy self diagnose gender dysphoria. I see his maturity level daily and he isn't mature enough for this.

From talking to him, he doesnt have more than a surface level understanding of any of this.

I love him and will support him regardless. What baffles me is to see adults and society who don't even know the kid tell him how brave he is and that this is all perfectly fine.

There are some 13 year olds out there who do have gender dysphoria and who need help. My concern is that your solution is working against them.
Max, I am not trying to tell you how to be a parent. I’m quite sure you’re a wonderful dad. We have to find a solution here that respects your rights as a parent but also helps those teenagers who truly have this issue.

 

[Max Power]

I've come around to thinking this stuff is an INSANE topic for those under 18. There is no single size its all discussion on the issues. There is no single point of treatment that addresses everything. People pushing this stuff are hurting kids. Letting your kids be who they are is one thing. Anyone promoting it is awful.

What was your position before and what was it that made you rethink things?

I thought keeping an open mind was ok and even a small level of exposure was ok.

Little did I know just how major of a topic this is in places like middle school. They think it's cool to be in this community and are only learning about it through people who are actively promoting it.

My breaking point was my middle son telling the whole family at the dinner table that he is pan sexual. I had a nice long and honest discussion with him. He is being influenced by his peer group (band kids) and frankly has no clue what he is talking about.

Several days later he comes back and says he is also non-binary and wants to go by they/them. Again we had another long talk and he confessed that his school has about 10 non-binary kids and a another handful who fall in the LGBTQ community.

My son doesn't understand what he is talking about and isnt mature enough for these conversations, but is being constantly exposed to it through his peer group. So like I said l, I think the over exposure is harmful.

How is this harmful? If he really doesn’t understand then he’ll get over it soon enough. In the meantime if he wants to be called “they” why not do it?

I honestly don’t see anything harmful about any of this. It’s not like they’re being peer pressured to take drugs, which would be a real concern. There are troubled kids out there who really do suffer from gender dysphoria. If increased openness and acceptance helps even one of them then it’s worth it.

Arent the LGBTQ at increased risk of violence and self harm? There are plenty of reasons to be concerned with a 13 year old running around bragging about his sexual orientation.

I dont want him going down a path he doeant understand while other people cheerlead him making these decisions.

Is embracing this worth it even if it hurts multiple kids?

I would say yes. The “hurt” you’re discussing is due to ignorance and intolerance, and it will only be solved by understanding, acceptance and love.

You arent a parent are you? It's my job to protect my children. Telling him to be proud, while likely going through a phase, and exposing himself to ignorance, intolerance, and potentially long term psychological issues is not being a good father.

If he was serious about it, I'd support him. I dont think he is because he cant answer basic questions about this stuff. It's our society promoting it and I believe it's all influenced

I am a parent. I have two daughters. If either had gender dysphoria I would do my best to be accepting and loving. They aren’t but they know people that are and treat them with respect. They are generally in support of trans, and I’m proud of them for not being intolerant like our generation has been.

And I'm not going to let a 13 year old boy self diagnose gender dysphoria. I see his maturity level daily and he isn't mature enough for this.

From talking to him, he doesnt have more than a surface level understanding of any of this.

I love him and will support him regardless. What baffles me is to see adults and society who don't even know the kid tell him how brave he is and that this is all perfectly fine.

There are some 13 year olds out there who do have gender dysphoria and who need help. My concern is that your solution is working against them.
Max, I am not trying to tell you how to be a parent. I’m quite sure you’re a wonderful dad. We have to find a solution here that respects your rights as a parent but also helps those teenagers who truly have this issue.

I agree there are a rare few 13 year olds with gender dysphoria, but this has been rare throughout the history of mankind. Why is it seemingly exploding now with a heavier dose of it in the US? It's because society is promoting and celebrating it in an impressionable age group.

So my question is, what "help" do trans or non-binary kids need? Does it need to come from qualified professional? Society doesnt know or understand enough to help the situation.

Also how is my solution of not flat out embracing what my child doesnt understand work against the situation? You can't broad brush my actions against a group when I'm discussing a specific situation here.

 

[timschochet]

I've come around to thinking this stuff is an INSANE topic for those under 18. There is no single size its all discussion on the issues. There is no single point of treatment that addresses everything. People pushing this stuff are hurting kids. Letting your kids be who they are is one thing. Anyone promoting it is awful.

What was your position before and what was it that made you rethink things?

I thought keeping an open mind was ok and even a small level of exposure was ok.

Little did I know just how major of a topic this is in places like middle school. They think it's cool to be in this community and are only learning about it through people who are actively promoting it.

My breaking point was my middle son telling the whole family at the dinner table that he is pan sexual. I had a nice long and honest discussion with him. He is being influenced by his peer group (band kids) and frankly has no clue what he is talking about.

Several days later he comes back and says he is also non-binary and wants to go by they/them. Again we had another long talk and he confessed that his school has about 10 non-binary kids and a another handful who fall in the LGBTQ community.

My son doesn't understand what he is talking about and isnt mature enough for these conversations, but is being constantly exposed to it through his peer group. So like I said l, I think the over exposure is harmful.

How is this harmful? If he really doesn’t understand then he’ll get over it soon enough. In the meantime if he wants to be called “they” why not do it?

I honestly don’t see anything harmful about any of this. It’s not like they’re being peer pressured to take drugs, which would be a real concern. There are troubled kids out there who really do suffer from gender dysphoria. If increased openness and acceptance helps even one of them then it’s worth it.

Arent the LGBTQ at increased risk of violence and self harm? There are plenty of reasons to be concerned with a 13 year old running around bragging about his sexual orientation.

I dont want him going down a path he doeant understand while other people cheerlead him making these decisions.

Is embracing this worth it even if it hurts multiple kids?

I would say yes. The “hurt” you’re discussing is due to ignorance and intolerance, and it will only be solved by understanding, acceptance and love.

You arent a parent are you? It's my job to protect my children. Telling him to be proud, while likely going through a phase, and exposing himself to ignorance, intolerance, and potentially long term psychological issues is not being a good father.

If he was serious about it, I'd support him. I dont think he is because he cant answer basic questions about this stuff. It's our society promoting it and I believe it's all influenced

I am a parent. I have two daughters. If either had gender dysphoria I would do my best to be accepting and loving. They aren’t but they know people that are and treat them with respect. They are generally in support of trans, and I’m proud of them for not being intolerant like our generation has been.

And I'm not going to let a 13 year old boy self diagnose gender dysphoria. I see his maturity level daily and he isn't mature enough for this.

From talking to him, he doesnt have more than a surface level understanding of any of this.

I love him and will support him regardless. What baffles me is to see adults and society who don't even know the kid tell him how brave he is and that this is all perfectly fine.

There are some 13 year olds out there who do have gender dysphoria and who need help. My concern is that your solution is working against them.
Max, I am not trying to tell you how to be a parent. I’m quite sure you’re a wonderful dad. We have to find a solution here that respects your rights as a parent but also helps those teenagers who truly have this issue.

I agree there are a rare few 13 year olds with gender dysphoria, but this has been rare throughout the history of mankind. Why is it seemingly exploding now with a heavier dose of it in the US? It's because society is promoting and celebrating it in an impressionable age group.

So my question is, what "help" do trans or non-binary kids need? Does it need to come from qualified professional? Society doesnt know or understand enough to help the situation.

Also how is my solution of not flat out embracing what my child doesnt understand work against the situation? You can't broad brush my actions against a group when I'm discussing a specific situation here.

It’s not as rare as you think and it’s not exploding either. According to most medical experts this problem was always around, but kids are willing to admit it these days because there is more acceptance and medical treatment available. Take away the medical treatment, as some here keep insisting on, and you will have more suicides.

 

[Max Power]

I've come around to thinking this stuff is an INSANE topic for those under 18. There is no single size its all discussion on the issues. There is no single point of treatment that addresses everything. People pushing this stuff are hurting kids. Letting your kids be who they are is one thing. Anyone promoting it is awful.

What was your position before and what was it that made you rethink things?

I thought keeping an open mind was ok and even a small level of exposure was ok.

Little did I know just how major of a topic this is in places like middle school. They think it's cool to be in this community and are only learning about it through people who are actively promoting it.

My breaking point was my middle son telling the whole family at the dinner table that he is pan sexual. I had a nice long and honest discussion with him. He is being influenced by his peer group (band kids) and frankly has no clue what he is talking about.

Several days later he comes back and says he is also non-binary and wants to go by they/them. Again we had another long talk and he confessed that his school has about 10 non-binary kids and a another handful who fall in the LGBTQ community.

My son doesn't understand what he is talking about and isnt mature enough for these conversations, but is being constantly exposed to it through his peer group. So like I said l, I think the over exposure is harmful.

How is this harmful? If he really doesn’t understand then he’ll get over it soon enough. In the meantime if he wants to be called “they” why not do it?

I honestly don’t see anything harmful about any of this. It’s not like they’re being peer pressured to take drugs, which would be a real concern. There are troubled kids out there who really do suffer from gender dysphoria. If increased openness and acceptance helps even one of them then it’s worth it.

Arent the LGBTQ at increased risk of violence and self harm? There are plenty of reasons to be concerned with a 13 year old running around bragging about his sexual orientation.

I dont want him going down a path he doeant understand while other people cheerlead him making these decisions.

Is embracing this worth it even if it hurts multiple kids?

I would say yes. The “hurt” you’re discussing is due to ignorance and intolerance, and it will only be solved by understanding, acceptance and love.

You arent a parent are you? It's my job to protect my children. Telling him to be proud, while likely going through a phase, and exposing himself to ignorance, intolerance, and potentially long term psychological issues is not being a good father.

If he was serious about it, I'd support him. I dont think he is because he cant answer basic questions about this stuff. It's our society promoting it and I believe it's all influenced

I am a parent. I have two daughters. If either had gender dysphoria I would do my best to be accepting and loving. They aren’t but they know people that are and treat them with respect. They are generally in support of trans, and I’m proud of them for not being intolerant like our generation has been.

And I'm not going to let a 13 year old boy self diagnose gender dysphoria. I see his maturity level daily and he isn't mature enough for this.

From talking to him, he doesnt have more than a surface level understanding of any of this.

I love him and will support him regardless. What baffles me is to see adults and society who don't even know the kid tell him how brave he is and that this is all perfectly fine.

There are some 13 year olds out there who do have gender dysphoria and who need help. My concern is that your solution is working against them.
Max, I am not trying to tell you how to be a parent. I’m quite sure you’re a wonderful dad. We have to find a solution here that respects your rights as a parent but also helps those teenagers who truly have this issue.

I agree there are a rare few 13 year olds with gender dysphoria, but this has been rare throughout the history of mankind. Why is it seemingly exploding now with a heavier dose of it in the US? It's because society is promoting and celebrating it in an impressionable age group.

So my question is, what "help" do trans or non-binary kids need? Does it need to come from qualified professional? Society doesnt know or understand enough to help the situation.

Also how is my solution of not flat out embracing what my child doesnt understand work against the situation? You can't broad brush my actions against a group when I'm discussing a specific situation here.

It’s not as rare as you think and it’s not exploding either. According to most medical experts this problem was always around, but kids are willing to admit it these days because there is more acceptance and medical treatment available. Take away the medical treatment, as some here keep insisting on, and you will have more suicides.

What's the number then? Show me some stats.

I said my kid just told me he has 10 non-binary kids in his school. Which is like 200 kids. That seems crazy high. He also goes to a pretty "red" district.

Again, what medical treatment is needed?

 

[timschochet]

I've come around to thinking this stuff is an INSANE topic for those under 18. There is no single size its all discussion on the issues. There is no single point of treatment that addresses everything. People pushing this stuff are hurting kids. Letting your kids be who they are is one thing. Anyone promoting it is awful.

What was your position before and what was it that made you rethink things?

I thought keeping an open mind was ok and even a small level of exposure was ok.

Little did I know just how major of a topic this is in places like middle school. They think it's cool to be in this community and are only learning about it through people who are actively promoting it.

My breaking point was my middle son telling the whole family at the dinner table that he is pan sexual. I had a nice long and honest discussion with him. He is being influenced by his peer group (band kids) and frankly has no clue what he is talking about.

Several days later he comes back and says he is also non-binary and wants to go by they/them. Again we had another long talk and he confessed that his school has about 10 non-binary kids and a another handful who fall in the LGBTQ community.

My son doesn't understand what he is talking about and isnt mature enough for these conversations, but is being constantly exposed to it through his peer group. So like I said l, I think the over exposure is harmful.

How is this harmful? If he really doesn’t understand then he’ll get over it soon enough. In the meantime if he wants to be called “they” why not do it?

I honestly don’t see anything harmful about any of this. It’s not like they’re being peer pressured to take drugs, which would be a real concern. There are troubled kids out there who really do suffer from gender dysphoria. If increased openness and acceptance helps even one of them then it’s worth it.

Arent the LGBTQ at increased risk of violence and self harm? There are plenty of reasons to be concerned with a 13 year old running around bragging about his sexual orientation.

I dont want him going down a path he doeant understand while other people cheerlead him making these decisions.

Is embracing this worth it even if it hurts multiple kids?

I would say yes. The “hurt” you’re discussing is due to ignorance and intolerance, and it will only be solved by understanding, acceptance and love.

You arent a parent are you? It's my job to protect my children. Telling him to be proud, while likely going through a phase, and exposing himself to ignorance, intolerance, and potentially long term psychological issues is not being a good father.

If he was serious about it, I'd support him. I dont think he is because he cant answer basic questions about this stuff. It's our society promoting it and I believe it's all influenced

I am a parent. I have two daughters. If either had gender dysphoria I would do my best to be accepting and loving. They aren’t but they know people that are and treat them with respect. They are generally in support of trans, and I’m proud of them for not being intolerant like our generation has been.

And I'm not going to let a 13 year old boy self diagnose gender dysphoria. I see his maturity level daily and he isn't mature enough for this.

From talking to him, he doesnt have more than a surface level understanding of any of this.

I love him and will support him regardless. What baffles me is to see adults and society who don't even know the kid tell him how brave he is and that this is all perfectly fine.

There are some 13 year olds out there who do have gender dysphoria and who need help. My concern is that your solution is working against them.
Max, I am not trying to tell you how to be a parent. I’m quite sure you’re a wonderful dad. We have to find a solution here that respects your rights as a parent but also helps those teenagers who truly have this issue.

I agree there are a rare few 13 year olds with gender dysphoria, but this has been rare throughout the history of mankind. Why is it seemingly exploding now with a heavier dose of it in the US? It's because society is promoting and celebrating it in an impressionable age group.

So my question is, what "help" do trans or non-binary kids need? Does it need to come from qualified professional? Society doesnt know or understand enough to help the situation.

Also how is my solution of not flat out embracing what my child doesnt understand work against the situation? You can't broad brush my actions against a group when I'm discussing a specific situation here.

It’s not as rare as you think and it’s not exploding either. According to most medical experts this problem was always around, but kids are willing to admit it these days because there is more acceptance and medical treatment available. Take away the medical treatment, as some here keep insisting on, and you will have more suicides.

What's the number then? Show me some stats.

I said my kid just told me he has 10 non-binary kids in his school. Which is like 200 kids. That seems crazy high. He also goes to a pretty "red" district.

Again, what medical treatment is needed?

According to Wiki, 1.7-2.7 teens have gender dysphoria:

Gender dysphoria in children - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Even at the lessor amount that’s over 5 million children. It’s not an insignificant number and it’s not fantasy.

As far as medical treatment: I think you know. Therapy, hormone treatment, and in some cases surgery. These decisions should be a private affair between the teen, the teen’s parents, and their doctors. The government should never be involved.

 

[FairWarning]

I've come around to thinking this stuff is an INSANE topic for those under 18. There is no single size its all discussion on the issues. There is no single point of treatment that addresses everything. People pushing this stuff are hurting kids. Letting your kids be who they are is one thing. Anyone promoting it is awful.

What was your position before and what was it that made you rethink things?

I thought keeping an open mind was ok and even a small level of exposure was ok.

Little did I know just how major of a topic this is in places like middle school. They think it's cool to be in this community and are only learning about it through people who are actively promoting it.

My breaking point was my middle son telling the whole family at the dinner table that he is pan sexual. I had a nice long and honest discussion with him. He is being influenced by his peer group (band kids) and frankly has no clue what he is talking about.

Several days later he comes back and says he is also non-binary and wants to go by they/them. Again we had another long talk and he confessed that his school has about 10 non-binary kids and a another handful who fall in the LGBTQ community.

My son doesn't understand what he is talking about and isnt mature enough for these conversations, but is being constantly exposed to it through his peer group. So like I said l, I think the over exposure is harmful.

How is this harmful? If he really doesn’t understand then he’ll get over it soon enough. In the meantime if he wants to be called “they” why not do it?

I honestly don’t see anything harmful about any of this. It’s not like they’re being peer pressured to take drugs, which would be a real concern. There are troubled kids out there who really do suffer from gender dysphoria. If increased openness and acceptance helps even one of them then it’s worth it.

Arent the LGBTQ at increased risk of violence and self harm? There are plenty of reasons to be concerned with a 13 year old running around bragging about his sexual orientation.

I dont want him going down a path he doeant understand while other people cheerlead him making these decisions.

Is embracing this worth it even if it hurts multiple kids?

I would say yes. The “hurt” you’re discussing is due to ignorance and intolerance, and it will only be solved by understanding, acceptance and love.

You arent a parent are you? It's my job to protect my children. Telling him to be proud, while likely going through a phase, and exposing himself to ignorance, intolerance, and potentially long term psychological issues is not being a good father.

If he was serious about it, I'd support him. I dont think he is because he cant answer basic questions about this stuff. It's our society promoting it and I believe it's all influenced

I am a parent. I have two daughters. If either had gender dysphoria I would do my best to be accepting and loving. They aren’t but they know people that are and treat them with respect. They are generally in support of trans, and I’m proud of them for not being intolerant like our generation has been.

And I'm not going to let a 13 year old boy self diagnose gender dysphoria. I see his maturity level daily and he isn't mature enough for this.

From talking to him, he doesnt have more than a surface level understanding of any of this.

I love him and will support him regardless. What baffles me is to see adults and society who don't even know the kid tell him how brave he is and that this is all perfectly fine.

There are some 13 year olds out there who do have gender dysphoria and who need help. My concern is that your solution is working against them.
Max, I am not trying to tell you how to be a parent. I’m quite sure you’re a wonderful dad. We have to find a solution here that respects your rights as a parent but also helps those teenagers who truly have this issue.

I agree there are a rare few 13 year olds with gender dysphoria, but this has been rare throughout the history of mankind. Why is it seemingly exploding now with a heavier dose of it in the US? It's because society is promoting and celebrating it in an impressionable age group.

So my question is, what "help" do trans or non-binary kids need? Does it need to come from qualified professional? Society doesnt know or understand enough to help the situation.

Also how is my solution of not flat out embracing what my child doesnt understand work against the situation? You can't broad brush my actions against a group when I'm discussing a specific situation here.

It’s not as rare as you think and it’s not exploding either. According to most medical experts this problem was always around, but kids are willing to admit it these days because there is more acceptance and medical treatment available. Take away the medical treatment, as some here keep insisting on, and you will have more suicides.

What's the number then? Show me some stats.

I said my kid just told me he has 10 non-binary kids in his school. Which is like 200 kids. That seems crazy high. He also goes to a pretty "red" district.

Again, what medical treatment is needed?

According to Wiki, 1.7-2.7 teens have gender dysphoria:

Gender dysphoria in children - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Even at the lessor amount that’s over 5 million children. It’s not an insignificant number and it’s not fantasy.

As far as medical treatment: I think you know. Therapy, hormone treatment, and in some cases surgery. These decisions should be a private affair between the teen, the teen’s parents, and their doctors. The government should never be involved.

How about teachers who tell the kids not to tell their parents, the school is a safe haven?

 

[timschochet]

I've come around to thinking this stuff is an INSANE topic for those under 18. There is no single size its all discussion on the issues. There is no single point of treatment that addresses everything. People pushing this stuff are hurting kids. Letting your kids be who they are is one thing. Anyone promoting it is awful.

What was your position before and what was it that made you rethink things?

I thought keeping an open mind was ok and even a small level of exposure was ok.

Little did I know just how major of a topic this is in places like middle school. They think it's cool to be in this community and are only learning about it through people who are actively promoting it.

My breaking point was my middle son telling the whole family at the dinner table that he is pan sexual. I had a nice long and honest discussion with him. He is being influenced by his peer group (band kids) and frankly has no clue what he is talking about.

Several days later he comes back and says he is also non-binary and wants to go by they/them. Again we had another long talk and he confessed that his school has about 10 non-binary kids and a another handful who fall in the LGBTQ community.

My son doesn't understand what he is talking about and isnt mature enough for these conversations, but is being constantly exposed to it through his peer group. So like I said l, I think the over exposure is harmful.

How is this harmful? If he really doesn’t understand then he’ll get over it soon enough. In the meantime if he wants to be called “they” why not do it?

I honestly don’t see anything harmful about any of this. It’s not like they’re being peer pressured to take drugs, which would be a real concern. There are troubled kids out there who really do suffer from gender dysphoria. If increased openness and acceptance helps even one of them then it’s worth it.

Arent the LGBTQ at increased risk of violence and self harm? There are plenty of reasons to be concerned with a 13 year old running around bragging about his sexual orientation.

I dont want him going down a path he doeant understand while other people cheerlead him making these decisions.

Is embracing this worth it even if it hurts multiple kids?

I would say yes. The “hurt” you’re discussing is due to ignorance and intolerance, and it will only be solved by understanding, acceptance and love.

You arent a parent are you? It's my job to protect my children. Telling him to be proud, while likely going through a phase, and exposing himself to ignorance, intolerance, and potentially long term psychological issues is not being a good father.

If he was serious about it, I'd support him. I dont think he is because he cant answer basic questions about this stuff. It's our society promoting it and I believe it's all influenced

I am a parent. I have two daughters. If either had gender dysphoria I would do my best to be accepting and loving. They aren’t but they know people that are and treat them with respect. They are generally in support of trans, and I’m proud of them for not being intolerant like our generation has been.

And I'm not going to let a 13 year old boy self diagnose gender dysphoria. I see his maturity level daily and he isn't mature enough for this.

From talking to him, he doesnt have more than a surface level understanding of any of this.

I love him and will support him regardless. What baffles me is to see adults and society who don't even know the kid tell him how brave he is and that this is all perfectly fine.

There are some 13 year olds out there who do have gender dysphoria and who need help. My concern is that your solution is working against them.
Max, I am not trying to tell you how to be a parent. I’m quite sure you’re a wonderful dad. We have to find a solution here that respects your rights as a parent but also helps those teenagers who truly have this issue.

I agree there are a rare few 13 year olds with gender dysphoria, but this has been rare throughout the history of mankind. Why is it seemingly exploding now with a heavier dose of it in the US? It's because society is promoting and celebrating it in an impressionable age group.

So my question is, what "help" do trans or non-binary kids need? Does it need to come from qualified professional? Society doesnt know or understand enough to help the situation.

Also how is my solution of not flat out embracing what my child doesnt understand work against the situation? You can't broad brush my actions against a group when I'm discussing a specific situation here.

It’s not as rare as you think and it’s not exploding either. According to most medical experts this problem was always around, but kids are willing to admit it these days because there is more acceptance and medical treatment available. Take away the medical treatment, as some here keep insisting on, and you will have more suicides.

What's the number then? Show me some stats.

I said my kid just told me he has 10 non-binary kids in his school. Which is like 200 kids. That seems crazy high. He also goes to a pretty "red" district.

Again, what medical treatment is needed?

According to Wiki, 1.7-2.7 teens have gender dysphoria:

Gender dysphoria in children - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Even at the lessor amount that’s over 5 million children. It’s not an insignificant number and it’s not fantasy.

As far as medical treatment: I think you know. Therapy, hormone treatment, and in some cases surgery. These decisions should be a private affair between the teen, the teen’s parents, and their doctors. The government should never be involved.

How about teachers who tell the kids not to tell their parents, the school is a safe haven?

What about them? I don’t think teens should have to tell their parents if they’re concerned about the reaction.

 

[Max Power]

I've come around to thinking this stuff is an INSANE topic for those under 18. There is no single size its all discussion on the issues. There is no single point of treatment that addresses everything. People pushing this stuff are hurting kids. Letting your kids be who they are is one thing. Anyone promoting it is awful.

What was your position before and what was it that made you rethink things?

I thought keeping an open mind was ok and even a small level of exposure was ok.

Little did I know just how major of a topic this is in places like middle school. They think it's cool to be in this community and are only learning about it through people who are actively promoting it.

My breaking point was my middle son telling the whole family at the dinner table that he is pan sexual. I had a nice long and honest discussion with him. He is being influenced by his peer group (band kids) and frankly has no clue what he is talking about.

Several days later he comes back and says he is also non-binary and wants to go by they/them. Again we had another long talk and he confessed that his school has about 10 non-binary kids and a another handful who fall in the LGBTQ community.

My son doesn't understand what he is talking about and isnt mature enough for these conversations, but is being constantly exposed to it through his peer group. So like I said l, I think the over exposure is harmful.

How is this harmful? If he really doesn’t understand then he’ll get over it soon enough. In the meantime if he wants to be called “they” why not do it?

I honestly don’t see anything harmful about any of this. It’s not like they’re being peer pressured to take drugs, which would be a real concern. There are troubled kids out there who really do suffer from gender dysphoria. If increased openness and acceptance helps even one of them then it’s worth it.

Arent the LGBTQ at increased risk of violence and self harm? There are plenty of reasons to be concerned with a 13 year old running around bragging about his sexual orientation.

I dont want him going down a path he doeant understand while other people cheerlead him making these decisions.

Is embracing this worth it even if it hurts multiple kids?

I would say yes. The “hurt” you’re discussing is due to ignorance and intolerance, and it will only be solved by understanding, acceptance and love.

You arent a parent are you? It's my job to protect my children. Telling him to be proud, while likely going through a phase, and exposing himself to ignorance, intolerance, and potentially long term psychological issues is not being a good father.

If he was serious about it, I'd support him. I dont think he is because he cant answer basic questions about this stuff. It's our society promoting it and I believe it's all influenced

I am a parent. I have two daughters. If either had gender dysphoria I would do my best to be accepting and loving. They aren’t but they know people that are and treat them with respect. They are generally in support of trans, and I’m proud of them for not being intolerant like our generation has been.

And I'm not going to let a 13 year old boy self diagnose gender dysphoria. I see his maturity level daily and he isn't mature enough for this.

From talking to him, he doesnt have more than a surface level understanding of any of this.

I love him and will support him regardless. What baffles me is to see adults and society who don't even know the kid tell him how brave he is and that this is all perfectly fine.

There are some 13 year olds out there who do have gender dysphoria and who need help. My concern is that your solution is working against them.
Max, I am not trying to tell you how to be a parent. I’m quite sure you’re a wonderful dad. We have to find a solution here that respects your rights as a parent but also helps those teenagers who truly have this issue.

I agree there are a rare few 13 year olds with gender dysphoria, but this has been rare throughout the history of mankind. Why is it seemingly exploding now with a heavier dose of it in the US? It's because society is promoting and celebrating it in an impressionable age group.

So my question is, what "help" do trans or non-binary kids need? Does it need to come from qualified professional? Society doesnt know or understand enough to help the situation.

Also how is my solution of not flat out embracing what my child doesnt understand work against the situation? You can't broad brush my actions against a group when I'm discussing a specific situation here.

It’s not as rare as you think and it’s not exploding either. According to most medical experts this problem was always around, but kids are willing to admit it these days because there is more acceptance and medical treatment available. Take away the medical treatment, as some here keep insisting on, and you will have more suicides.

What's the number then? Show me some stats.

I said my kid just told me he has 10 non-binary kids in his school. Which is like 200 kids. That seems crazy high. He also goes to a pretty "red" district.

Again, what medical treatment is needed?

According to Wiki, 1.7-2.7 teens have gender dysphoria:

Gender dysphoria in children - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Even at the lessor amount that’s over 5 million children. It’s not an insignificant number and it’s not fantasy.

As far as medical treatment: I think you know. Therapy, hormone treatment, and in some cases surgery. These decisions should be a private affair between the teen, the teen’s parents, and their doctors. The government should never be involved.

The 1.7-2.7 number in kids and teens is from survey data and not clinically diagnosed cases, so we have to view that for what it is. The study also cited year over year increases in kids who identified as transgender which confirms this is blowing up if we see such rapid statistical increases.

Another aspect of that study was that adults only reported at 0.5% for gender dysphoria. So this either means it's a passing phase in kids or it has jumped multiple % points over a generation. With the numbers from my kid's school (5% in just the ones he is claiming), it really does seem like this is exploding.

I'm disagreeing with the treatment option as well. We cant say being non-binary is normal and then tell someone they need therapy for it. They likely do because of self harm factors, but then that doesn't make this "normal".

I think federal government should stay out of this, but states can do what they want.

 

[timschochet]

I've come around to thinking this stuff is an INSANE topic for those under 18. There is no single size its all discussion on the issues. There is no single point of treatment that addresses everything. People pushing this stuff are hurting kids. Letting your kids be who they are is one thing. Anyone promoting it is awful.

What was your position before and what was it that made you rethink things?

I thought keeping an open mind was ok and even a small level of exposure was ok.

Little did I know just how major of a topic this is in places like middle school. They think it's cool to be in this community and are only learning about it through people who are actively promoting it.

My breaking point was my middle son telling the whole family at the dinner table that he is pan sexual. I had a nice long and honest discussion with him. He is being influenced by his peer group (band kids) and frankly has no clue what he is talking about.

Several days later he comes back and says he is also non-binary and wants to go by they/them. Again we had another long talk and he confessed that his school has about 10 non-binary kids and a another handful who fall in the LGBTQ community.

My son doesn't understand what he is talking about and isnt mature enough for these conversations, but is being constantly exposed to it through his peer group. So like I said l, I think the over exposure is harmful.

How is this harmful? If he really doesn’t understand then he’ll get over it soon enough. In the meantime if he wants to be called “they” why not do it?

I honestly don’t see anything harmful about any of this. It’s not like they’re being peer pressured to take drugs, which would be a real concern. There are troubled kids out there who really do suffer from gender dysphoria. If increased openness and acceptance helps even one of them then it’s worth it.

Arent the LGBTQ at increased risk of violence and self harm? There are plenty of reasons to be concerned with a 13 year old running around bragging about his sexual orientation.

I dont want him going down a path he doeant understand while other people cheerlead him making these decisions.

Is embracing this worth it even if it hurts multiple kids?

I would say yes. The “hurt” you’re discussing is due to ignorance and intolerance, and it will only be solved by understanding, acceptance and love.

You arent a parent are you? It's my job to protect my children. Telling him to be proud, while likely going through a phase, and exposing himself to ignorance, intolerance, and potentially long term psychological issues is not being a good father.

If he was serious about it, I'd support him. I dont think he is because he cant answer basic questions about this stuff. It's our society promoting it and I believe it's all influenced

I am a parent. I have two daughters. If either had gender dysphoria I would do my best to be accepting and loving. They aren’t but they know people that are and treat them with respect. They are generally in support of trans, and I’m proud of them for not being intolerant like our generation has been.

And I'm not going to let a 13 year old boy self diagnose gender dysphoria. I see his maturity level daily and he isn't mature enough for this.

From talking to him, he doesnt have more than a surface level understanding of any of this.

I love him and will support him regardless. What baffles me is to see adults and society who don't even know the kid tell him how brave he is and that this is all perfectly fine.

There are some 13 year olds out there who do have gender dysphoria and who need help. My concern is that your solution is working against them.
Max, I am not trying to tell you how to be a parent. I’m quite sure you’re a wonderful dad. We have to find a solution here that respects your rights as a parent but also helps those teenagers who truly have this issue.

I agree there are a rare few 13 year olds with gender dysphoria, but this has been rare throughout the history of mankind. Why is it seemingly exploding now with a heavier dose of it in the US? It's because society is promoting and celebrating it in an impressionable age group.

So my question is, what "help" do trans or non-binary kids need? Does it need to come from qualified professional? Society doesnt know or understand enough to help the situation.

Also how is my solution of not flat out embracing what my child doesnt understand work against the situation? You can't broad brush my actions against a group when I'm discussing a specific situation here.

It’s not as rare as you think and it’s not exploding either. According to most medical experts this problem was always around, but kids are willing to admit it these days because there is more acceptance and medical treatment available. Take away the medical treatment, as some here keep insisting on, and you will have more suicides.

What's the number then? Show me some stats.

I said my kid just told me he has 10 non-binary kids in his school. Which is like 200 kids. That seems crazy high. He also goes to a pretty "red" district.

Again, what medical treatment is needed?

According to Wiki, 1.7-2.7 teens have gender dysphoria:

Gender dysphoria in children - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Even at the lessor amount that’s over 5 million children. It’s not an insignificant number and it’s not fantasy.

As far as medical treatment: I think you know. Therapy, hormone treatment, and in some cases surgery. These decisions should be a private affair between the teen, the teen’s parents, and their doctors. The government should never be involved.

The 1.7-2.7 number in kids and teens is from survey data and not clinically diagnosed cases, so we have to view that for what it is. The study also cited year over year increases in kids who identified as transgender which confirms this is blowing up if we see such rapid statistical increases.

Another aspect of that study was that adults only reported at 0.5% for gender dysphoria. So this either means it's a passing phase in kids or it has jumped multiple % points over a generation. With the numbers from my kid's school (5% in just the ones he is claiming), it really does seem like this is exploding.

I'm disagreeing with the treatment option as well. We cant say being non-binary is normal and then tell someone they need therapy for it. They likely do because of self harm factors, but then that doesn't make this "normal".

I think federal government should stay out of this, but states can do what they want.

I think the percentages are lower among adults because the realization occurs at puberty. Once the change has occurred the dysphoria is over, and the new man or woman is a healthy human being, no?

Why should states have the right to interfere with private medical decisions outside of a public health emergency (like Covid)? Why should any government ever be involved? I just don’t see it.

 

[BladeRunner]

I've come around to thinking this stuff is an INSANE topic for those under 18. There is no single size its all discussion on the issues. There is no single point of treatment that addresses everything. People pushing this stuff are hurting kids. Letting your kids be who they are is one thing. Anyone promoting it is awful.

What was your position before and what was it that made you rethink things?

I thought keeping an open mind was ok and even a small level of exposure was ok.

Little did I know just how major of a topic this is in places like middle school. They think it's cool to be in this community and are only learning about it through people who are actively promoting it.

My breaking point was my middle son telling the whole family at the dinner table that he is pan sexual. I had a nice long and honest discussion with him. He is being influenced by his peer group (band kids) and frankly has no clue what he is talking about.

Several days later he comes back and says he is also non-binary and wants to go by they/them. Again we had another long talk and he confessed that his school has about 10 non-binary kids and a another handful who fall in the LGBTQ community.

My son doesn't understand what he is talking about and isnt mature enough for these conversations, but is being constantly exposed to it through his peer group. So like I said l, I think the over exposure is harmful.

Yep. This whole "theye're born this way" argument is falling by the wayside as we see this group explode in numbers. There is no way on Earth that THAT many people are born that way. That lifestyle is diametrically opposed to the #1 Prime Directive, which is procreation and advancing the species survival. There is no way nature makes this many anomalies.

I think instead of "born this way" it's more like "it's trendy this week" is a stronger argument.

 

[jon_mx]

Still waiting for the link for 50K kids annually getting stuff chopped off or being made infertile by hormone treatment.

Why aren't you waiting for the data which really matters....how effective are these treatments and what are the long term impacts. I have read several recently they talk about the lack of data and lack of evidence to support their use and describe the use if puberty blockers as common. I am left to extrapolate based on what little data is available. The people who have the data, don't release the data. And that is a problem. If you gave a rats butt about children being permantly harmed, you would be far more interested in the data which proves these treatments are safe and effective.

For every one of the hundreds of stories out there about people who regret these therapies and the irreversible damage it has done, there are probably a hundred who remain silent and don't want to go public.

But yeah, blame me for not having percise statistics and not the nazis experimenting on children who are suppressing the data. The sex change mills have grown from one to over 300 since 2008. They know exactly what they are doing and hope they don't get exposed like they did in Britain.

 

[dkp993]

I've come around to thinking this stuff is an INSANE topic for those under 18. There is no single size its all discussion on the issues. There is no single point of treatment that addresses everything. People pushing this stuff are hurting kids. Letting your kids be who they are is one thing. Anyone promoting it is awful.

What was your position before and what was it that made you rethink things?

I thought keeping an open mind was ok and even a small level of exposure was ok.

Little did I know just how major of a topic this is in places like middle school. They think it's cool to be in this community and are only learning about it through people who are actively promoting it.

My breaking point was my middle son telling the whole family at the dinner table that he is pan sexual. I had a nice long and honest discussion with him. He is being influenced by his peer group (band kids) and frankly has no clue what he is talking about.

Several days later he comes back and says he is also non-binary and wants to go by they/them. Again we had another long talk and he confessed that his school has about 10 non-binary kids and a another handful who fall in the LGBTQ community.

My son doesn't understand what he is talking about and isnt mature enough for these conversations, but is being constantly exposed to it through his peer group. So like I said l, I think the over exposure is harmful.

Yep. This whole "theye're born this way" argument is falling by the wayside as we see this group explode in numbers. There is no way on Earth that THAT many people are born that way. That lifestyle is diametrically opposed to the #1 Prime Directive, which is procreation and advancing the species survival. There is no way nature makes this many anomalies.

I think instead of "born this way" it's more like "it's trendy this week" is a stronger argument.

To quote one of the greatest philosophers of our time……

”Mother nature’s a maaaaddd scientist!”
-Cosmo Kramer

 

[timschochet]

I've come around to thinking this stuff is an INSANE topic for those under 18. There is no single size its all discussion on the issues. There is no single point of treatment that addresses everything. People pushing this stuff are hurting kids. Letting your kids be who they are is one thing. Anyone promoting it is awful.

What was your position before and what was it that made you rethink things?

I thought keeping an open mind was ok and even a small level of exposure was ok.

Little did I know just how major of a topic this is in places like middle school. They think it's cool to be in this community and are only learning about it through people who are actively promoting it.

My breaking point was my middle son telling the whole family at the dinner table that he is pan sexual. I had a nice long and honest discussion with him. He is being influenced by his peer group (band kids) and frankly has no clue what he is talking about.

Several days later he comes back and says he is also non-binary and wants to go by they/them. Again we had another long talk and he confessed that his school has about 10 non-binary kids and a another handful who fall in the LGBTQ community.

My son doesn't understand what he is talking about and isnt mature enough for these conversations, but is being constantly exposed to it through his peer group. So like I said l, I think the over exposure is harmful.

Yep. This whole "theye're born this way" argument is falling by the wayside as we see this group explode in numbers. There is no way on Earth that THAT many people are born that way. That lifestyle is diametrically opposed to the #1 Prime Directive, which is procreation and advancing the species survival. There is no way nature makes this many anomalies.

I think instead of "born this way" it's more like "it's trendy this week" is a stronger argument.

I have no idea whether or not people are born that way. I don’t see that it makes any difference. And I don’t believe in the “prime directive”.

i have to add too that the notion, which seems to be growing prevalent among cultural conservatives and people generally opposed to trans, that kids are doing it because it’s “trendy” strikes me as really absurd.

 

[dkp993]

Still waiting for the link for 50K kids annually getting stuff chopped off or being made infertile by hormone treatment.

Why aren't you waiting for the data which really matters....how effective are these treatments and what are the long term impacts. I have read several recently they talk about the lack of data and lack of evidence to support their use and describe the use if puberty blockers as common. I am left to extrapolate based on what little data is available. The people who have the data, don't release the data. And that is a problem. If you gave a rats butt about children being permantly harmed, you would be far more interested in the data which proves these treatments are safe and effective.

For every one of the hundreds of stories out there about people who regret these therapies and the irreversible damage it has done, there are probably a hundred who remain silent and don't want to go public.

But yeah, blame me for not having percise statistics and not the nazis experimenting on children who are suppressing the data. The sex change mills have grown from one to over 300 since 2008. They know exactly what they are doing and hope they don't get exposed like they did in Britain.

Wouldn‘t it have been much easier to just say “I don’t have the stats to back up my claim” then to spend paragraphs basically saying just that.

 

[timschochet]

Still waiting for the link for 50K kids annually getting stuff chopped off or being made infertile by hormone treatment.

Why aren't you waiting for the data which really matters....how effective are these treatments and what are the long term impacts. I have read several recently they talk about the lack of data and lack of evidence to support their use and describe the use if puberty blockers as common. I am left to extrapolate based on what little data is available. The people who have the data, don't release the data. And that is a problem. If you gave a rats butt about children being permantly harmed, you would be far more interested in the data which proves these treatments are safe and effective.

For every one of the hundreds of stories out there about people who regret these therapies and the irreversible damage it has done, there are probably a hundred who remain silent and don't want to go public.

But yeah, blame me for not having percise statistics and not the nazis experimenting on children who are suppressing the data. The sex change mills have grown from one to over 300 since 2008. They know exactly what they are doing and hope they don't get exposed like they did in Britain.

I believe all of your assertions are false. My own assumption, which I get from reading medical experts (and not bigoted websites) is that 99.99% of those who resolve their gender dysphoria with surgery or hormone treatments don’t regret it for a moment, unless the regret is the result of being ostracized by family and friends and made to feel like they’re some kind of freak.

 

[jon_mx]

I've come around to thinking this stuff is an INSANE topic for those under 18. There is no single size its all discussion on the issues. There is no single point of treatment that addresses everything. People pushing this stuff are hurting kids. Letting your kids be who they are is one thing. Anyone promoting it is awful.

What was your position before and what was it that made you rethink things?

I thought keeping an open mind was ok and even a small level of exposure was ok.

Little did I know just how major of a topic this is in places like middle school. They think it's cool to be in this community and are only learning about it through people who are actively promoting it.

My breaking point was my middle son telling the whole family at the dinner table that he is pan sexual. I had a nice long and honest discussion with him. He is being influenced by his peer group (band kids) and frankly has no clue what he is talking about.

Several days later he comes back and says he is also non-binary and wants to go by they/them. Again we had another long talk and he confessed that his school has about 10 non-binary kids and a another handful who fall in the LGBTQ community.

My son doesn't understand what he is talking about and isnt mature enough for these conversations, but is being constantly exposed to it through his peer group. So like I said l, I think the over exposure is harmful.

How is this harmful? If he really doesn’t understand then he’ll get over it soon enough. In the meantime if he wants to be called “they” why not do it?

I honestly don’t see anything harmful about any of this. It’s not like they’re being peer pressured to take drugs, which would be a real concern. There are troubled kids out there who really do suffer from gender dysphoria. If increased openness and acceptance helps even one of them then it’s worth it.

Arent the LGBTQ at increased risk of violence and self harm? There are plenty of reasons to be concerned with a 13 year old running around bragging about his sexual orientation.

I dont want him going down a path he doeant understand while other people cheerlead him making these decisions.

Is embracing this worth it even if it hurts multiple kids?

I would say yes. The “hurt” you’re discussing is due to ignorance and intolerance, and it will only be solved by understanding, acceptance and love.

You arent a parent are you? It's my job to protect my children. Telling him to be proud, while likely going through a phase, and exposing himself to ignorance, intolerance, and potentially long term psychological issues is not being a good father.

If he was serious about it, I'd support him. I dont think he is because he cant answer basic questions about this stuff. It's our society promoting it and I believe it's all influenced

I am a parent. I have two daughters. If either had gender dysphoria I would do my best to be accepting and loving. They aren’t but they know people that are and treat them with respect. They are generally in support of trans, and I’m proud of them for not being intolerant like our generation has been.

And I'm not going to let a 13 year old boy self diagnose gender dysphoria. I see his maturity level daily and he isn't mature enough for this.

From talking to him, he doesnt have more than a surface level understanding of any of this.

I love him and will support him regardless. What baffles me is to see adults and society who don't even know the kid tell him how brave he is and that this is all perfectly fine.

There are some 13 year olds out there who do have gender dysphoria and who need help. My concern is that your solution is working against them.
Max, I am not trying to tell you how to be a parent. I’m quite sure you’re a wonderful dad. We have to find a solution here that respects your rights as a parent but also helps those teenagers who truly have this issue.

I agree there are a rare few 13 year olds with gender dysphoria, but this has been rare throughout the history of mankind. Why is it seemingly exploding now with a heavier dose of it in the US? It's because society is promoting and celebrating it in an impressionable age group.

So my question is, what "help" do trans or non-binary kids need? Does it need to come from qualified professional? Society doesnt know or understand enough to help the situation.

Also how is my solution of not flat out embracing what my child doesnt understand work against the situation? You can't broad brush my actions against a group when I'm discussing a specific situation here.

It’s not as rare as you think and it’s not exploding either. According to most medical experts this problem was always around, but kids are willing to admit it these days because there is more acceptance and medical treatment available. Take away the medical treatment, as some here keep insisting on, and you will have more suicides.

What's the number then? Show me some stats.

I said my kid just told me he has 10 non-binary kids in his school. Which is like 200 kids. That seems crazy high. He also goes to a pretty "red" district.

Again, what medical treatment is needed?

According to Wiki, 1.7-2.7 teens have gender dysphoria:

Gender dysphoria in children - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Even at the lessor amount that’s over 5 million children. It’s not an insignificant number and it’s not fantasy.

As far as medical treatment: I think you know. Therapy, hormone treatment, and in some cases surgery. These decisions should be a private affair between the teen, the teen’s parents, and their doctors. The government should never be involved.

The 1.7-2.7 number in kids and teens is from survey data and not clinically diagnosed cases, so we have to view that for what it is. The study also cited year over year increases in kids who identified as transgender which confirms this is blowing up if we see such rapid statistical increases.

Another aspect of that study was that adults only reported at 0.5% for gender dysphoria. So this either means it's a passing phase in kids or it has jumped multiple % points over a generation. With the numbers from my kid's school (5% in just the ones he is claiming), it really does seem like this is exploding.

I'm disagreeing with the treatment option as well. We cant say being non-binary is normal and then tell someone they need therapy for it. They likely do because of self harm factors, but then that doesn't make this "normal".

I think federal government should stay out of this, but states can do what they want.

I think the percentages are lower among adults because the realization occurs at puberty. Once the change has occurred the dysphoria is over, and the new man or woman is a healthy human being, no?

Why should states have the right to interfere with private medical decisions outside of a public health emergency (like Covid)? Why should any government ever be involved? I just don’t see it.

If they get over it, why in the world would you destroy their bodies? That logic makes no sense.

Governments are already stepping in, they are forcing parents to allow their children to seek these harmful treatments from these asinine gender affirming quacks. A real doctor does not rely solely on the self-diagnosis especially when it comes from a child c

 

[timschochet]

Oh wait here is an actual series of studies on this subject:

Regret after Gender-affirmation Surgery: A Systematic... : Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery – Global Open

The aim of this study was to evaluate the prevalence of regret in transgender individuals who underwent GAS and evaluate associated factors. Methods: A systematic review of several databases was conducted. Random-effects meta-analysis, meta-regression, and subgroup and sensitivity analyses were...

journals.lww.com

Approximately 1% regret having the surgery. So I was a little off when I suggested .01%. It’s higher than that. Jon mx, however, is completely wrong about this.

 

[jon_mx]

Still waiting for the link for 50K kids annually getting stuff chopped off or being made infertile by hormone treatment.

Why aren't you waiting for the data which really matters....how effective are these treatments and what are the long term impacts. I have read several recently they talk about the lack of data and lack of evidence to support their use and describe the use if puberty blockers as common. I am left to extrapolate based on what little data is available. The people who have the data, don't release the data. And that is a problem. If you gave a rats butt about children being permantly harmed, you would be far more interested in the data which proves these treatments are safe and effective.

For every one of the hundreds of stories out there about people who regret these therapies and the irreversible damage it has done, there are probably a hundred who remain silent and don't want to go public.

But yeah, blame me for not having percise statistics and not the nazis experimenting on children who are suppressing the data. The sex change mills have grown from one to over 300 since 2008. They know exactly what they are doing and hope they don't get exposed like they did in Britain.

Wouldn‘t it have been much easier to just say “I don’t have the stats to back up my claim” then to spend paragraphs basically saying just that.

Because the lack of data is not the responsibility of those questioning the therapy, it is the responsibility for those administering the therapy. This is like drug companies flooding the market with new drugs and blaming the lack of data on those raising concerns about their safety and effectiveness.

 

[Max Power]

I've come around to thinking this stuff is an INSANE topic for those under 18. There is no single size its all discussion on the issues. There is no single point of treatment that addresses everything. People pushing this stuff are hurting kids. Letting your kids be who they are is one thing. Anyone promoting it is awful.

What was your position before and what was it that made you rethink things?

I thought keeping an open mind was ok and even a small level of exposure was ok.

Little did I know just how major of a topic this is in places like middle school. They think it's cool to be in this community and are only learning about it through people who are actively promoting it.

My breaking point was my middle son telling the whole family at the dinner table that he is pan sexual. I had a nice long and honest discussion with him. He is being influenced by his peer group (band kids) and frankly has no clue what he is talking about.

Several days later he comes back and says he is also non-binary and wants to go by they/them. Again we had another long talk and he confessed that his school has about 10 non-binary kids and a another handful who fall in the LGBTQ community.

My son doesn't understand what he is talking about and isnt mature enough for these conversations, but is being constantly exposed to it through his peer group. So like I said l, I think the over exposure is harmful.

How is this harmful? If he really doesn’t understand then he’ll get over it soon enough. In the meantime if he wants to be called “they” why not do it?

I honestly don’t see anything harmful about any of this. It’s not like they’re being peer pressured to take drugs, which would be a real concern. There are troubled kids out there who really do suffer from gender dysphoria. If increased openness and acceptance helps even one of them then it’s worth it.

Arent the LGBTQ at increased risk of violence and self harm? There are plenty of reasons to be concerned with a 13 year old running around bragging about his sexual orientation.

I dont want him going down a path he doeant understand while other people cheerlead him making these decisions.

Is embracing this worth it even if it hurts multiple kids?

I would say yes. The “hurt” you’re discussing is due to ignorance and intolerance, and it will only be solved by understanding, acceptance and love.

You arent a parent are you? It's my job to protect my children. Telling him to be proud, while likely going through a phase, and exposing himself to ignorance, intolerance, and potentially long term psychological issues is not being a good father.

If he was serious about it, I'd support him. I dont think he is because he cant answer basic questions about this stuff. It's our society promoting it and I believe it's all influenced

I am a parent. I have two daughters. If either had gender dysphoria I would do my best to be accepting and loving. They aren’t but they know people that are and treat them with respect. They are generally in support of trans, and I’m proud of them for not being intolerant like our generation has been.

And I'm not going to let a 13 year old boy self diagnose gender dysphoria. I see his maturity level daily and he isn't mature enough for this.

From talking to him, he doesnt have more than a surface level understanding of any of this.

I love him and will support him regardless. What baffles me is to see adults and society who don't even know the kid tell him how brave he is and that this is all perfectly fine.

There are some 13 year olds out there who do have gender dysphoria and who need help. My concern is that your solution is working against them.
Max, I am not trying to tell you how to be a parent. I’m quite sure you’re a wonderful dad. We have to find a solution here that respects your rights as a parent but also helps those teenagers who truly have this issue.

I agree there are a rare few 13 year olds with gender dysphoria, but this has been rare throughout the history of mankind. Why is it seemingly exploding now with a heavier dose of it in the US? It's because society is promoting and celebrating it in an impressionable age group.

So my question is, what "help" do trans or non-binary kids need? Does it need to come from qualified professional? Society doesnt know or understand enough to help the situation.

Also how is my solution of not flat out embracing what my child doesnt understand work against the situation? You can't broad brush my actions against a group when I'm discussing a specific situation here.

It’s not as rare as you think and it’s not exploding either. According to most medical experts this problem was always around, but kids are willing to admit it these days because there is more acceptance and medical treatment available. Take away the medical treatment, as some here keep insisting on, and you will have more suicides.

What's the number then? Show me some stats.

I said my kid just told me he has 10 non-binary kids in his school. Which is like 200 kids. That seems crazy high. He also goes to a pretty "red" district.

Again, what medical treatment is needed?

According to Wiki, 1.7-2.7 teens have gender dysphoria:

Gender dysphoria in children - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Even at the lessor amount that’s over 5 million children. It’s not an insignificant number and it’s not fantasy.

As far as medical treatment: I think you know. Therapy, hormone treatment, and in some cases surgery. These decisions should be a private affair between the teen, the teen’s parents, and their doctors. The government should never be involved.

The 1.7-2.7 number in kids and teens is from survey data and not clinically diagnosed cases, so we have to view that for what it is. The study also cited year over year increases in kids who identified as transgender which confirms this is blowing up if we see such rapid statistical increases.

Another aspect of that study was that adults only reported at 0.5% for gender dysphoria. So this either means it's a passing phase in kids or it has jumped multiple % points over a generation. With the numbers from my kid's school (5% in just the ones he is claiming), it really does seem like this is exploding.

I'm disagreeing with the treatment option as well. We cant say being non-binary is normal and then tell someone they need therapy for it. They likely do because of self harm factors, but then that doesn't make this "normal".

I think federal government should stay out of this, but states can do what they want.

I think the percentages are lower among adults because the realization occurs at puberty. Once the change has occurred the dysphoria is over, and the new man or woman is a healthy human being, no?

Why should states have the right to interfere with private medical decisions outside of a public health emergency (like Covid)? Why should any government ever be involved? I just don’t see it.

Gender dysphoria doesnt mean you have to change genders... it isnt over if you acknowledge it.

I think the state should have the right to regulate life altering medical procedures for minors. It's hard to argue that teens arent mature enough for x,y, and a but then say it's fine to start sex reassignment procedures.

 

[timschochet]

I've come around to thinking this stuff is an INSANE topic for those under 18. There is no single size its all discussion on the issues. There is no single point of treatment that addresses everything. People pushing this stuff are hurting kids. Letting your kids be who they are is one thing. Anyone promoting it is awful.

What was your position before and what was it that made you rethink things?

I thought keeping an open mind was ok and even a small level of exposure was ok.

Little did I know just how major of a topic this is in places like middle school. They think it's cool to be in this community and are only learning about it through people who are actively promoting it.

My breaking point was my middle son telling the whole family at the dinner table that he is pan sexual. I had a nice long and honest discussion with him. He is being influenced by his peer group (band kids) and frankly has no clue what he is talking about.

Several days later he comes back and says he is also non-binary and wants to go by they/them. Again we had another long talk and he confessed that his school has about 10 non-binary kids and a another handful who fall in the LGBTQ community.

My son doesn't understand what he is talking about and isnt mature enough for these conversations, but is being constantly exposed to it through his peer group. So like I said l, I think the over exposure is harmful.

How is this harmful? If he really doesn’t understand then he’ll get over it soon enough. In the meantime if he wants to be called “they” why not do it?

I honestly don’t see anything harmful about any of this. It’s not like they’re being peer pressured to take drugs, which would be a real concern. There are troubled kids out there who really do suffer from gender dysphoria. If increased openness and acceptance helps even one of them then it’s worth it.

Arent the LGBTQ at increased risk of violence and self harm? There are plenty of reasons to be concerned with a 13 year old running around bragging about his sexual orientation.

I dont want him going down a path he doeant understand while other people cheerlead him making these decisions.

Is embracing this worth it even if it hurts multiple kids?

I would say yes. The “hurt” you’re discussing is due to ignorance and intolerance, and it will only be solved by understanding, acceptance and love.

You arent a parent are you? It's my job to protect my children. Telling him to be proud, while likely going through a phase, and exposing himself to ignorance, intolerance, and potentially long term psychological issues is not being a good father.

If he was serious about it, I'd support him. I dont think he is because he cant answer basic questions about this stuff. It's our society promoting it and I believe it's all influenced

I am a parent. I have two daughters. If either had gender dysphoria I would do my best to be accepting and loving. They aren’t but they know people that are and treat them with respect. They are generally in support of trans, and I’m proud of them for not being intolerant like our generation has been.

And I'm not going to let a 13 year old boy self diagnose gender dysphoria. I see his maturity level daily and he isn't mature enough for this.

From talking to him, he doesnt have more than a surface level understanding of any of this.

I love him and will support him regardless. What baffles me is to see adults and society who don't even know the kid tell him how brave he is and that this is all perfectly fine.

There are some 13 year olds out there who do have gender dysphoria and who need help. My concern is that your solution is working against them.
Max, I am not trying to tell you how to be a parent. I’m quite sure you’re a wonderful dad. We have to find a solution here that respects your rights as a parent but also helps those teenagers who truly have this issue.

I agree there are a rare few 13 year olds with gender dysphoria, but this has been rare throughout the history of mankind. Why is it seemingly exploding now with a heavier dose of it in the US? It's because society is promoting and celebrating it in an impressionable age group.

So my question is, what "help" do trans or non-binary kids need? Does it need to come from qualified professional? Society doesnt know or understand enough to help the situation.

Also how is my solution of not flat out embracing what my child doesnt understand work against the situation? You can't broad brush my actions against a group when I'm discussing a specific situation here.

It’s not as rare as you think and it’s not exploding either. According to most medical experts this problem was always around, but kids are willing to admit it these days because there is more acceptance and medical treatment available. Take away the medical treatment, as some here keep insisting on, and you will have more suicides.

What's the number then? Show me some stats.

I said my kid just told me he has 10 non-binary kids in his school. Which is like 200 kids. That seems crazy high. He also goes to a pretty "red" district.

Again, what medical treatment is needed?

According to Wiki, 1.7-2.7 teens have gender dysphoria:

Gender dysphoria in children - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Even at the lessor amount that’s over 5 million children. It’s not an insignificant number and it’s not fantasy.

As far as medical treatment: I think you know. Therapy, hormone treatment, and in some cases surgery. These decisions should be a private affair between the teen, the teen’s parents, and their doctors. The government should never be involved.

The 1.7-2.7 number in kids and teens is from survey data and not clinically diagnosed cases, so we have to view that for what it is. The study also cited year over year increases in kids who identified as transgender which confirms this is blowing up if we see such rapid statistical increases.

Another aspect of that study was that adults only reported at 0.5% for gender dysphoria. So this either means it's a passing phase in kids or it has jumped multiple % points over a generation. With the numbers from my kid's school (5% in just the ones he is claiming), it really does seem like this is exploding.

I'm disagreeing with the treatment option as well. We cant say being non-binary is normal and then tell someone they need therapy for it. They likely do because of self harm factors, but then that doesn't make this "normal".

I think federal government should stay out of this, but states can do what they want.

I think the percentages are lower among adults because the realization occurs at puberty. Once the change has occurred the dysphoria is over, and the new man or woman is a healthy human being, no?

Why should states have the right to interfere with private medical decisions outside of a public health emergency (like Covid)? Why should any government ever be involved? I just don’t see it.

Gender dysphoria doesnt mean you have to change genders... it isnt over if you acknowledge it.

I think the state should have the right to regulate life altering medical procedures for minors. It's hard to argue that teens arent mature enough for x,y, and a but then say it's fine to start sex reassignment procedures.

Unless you simply want it to be illegal (which is IMO going to lead to more teen suicides) I don’t see what possible good can come from the state interfering in private medical decisions. It’s a recipe for disaster.

 

[dkp993]

Still waiting for the link for 50K kids annually getting stuff chopped off or being made infertile by hormone treatment.

Why aren't you waiting for the data which really matters....how effective are these treatments and what are the long term impacts. I have read several recently they talk about the lack of data and lack of evidence to support their use and describe the use if puberty blockers as common. I am left to extrapolate based on what little data is available. The people who have the data, don't release the data. And that is a problem. If you gave a rats butt about children being permantly harmed, you would be far more interested in the data which proves these treatments are safe and effective.

For every one of the hundreds of stories out there about people who regret these therapies and the irreversible damage it has done, there are probably a hundred who remain silent and don't want to go public.

But yeah, blame me for not having percise statistics and not the nazis experimenting on children who are suppressing the data. The sex change mills have grown from one to over 300 since 2008. They know exactly what they are doing and hope they don't get exposed like they did in Britain.

Wouldn‘t it have been much easier to just say “I don’t have the stats to back up my claim” then to spend paragraphs basically saying just that.

Because the lack of data is not the responsibility of those questioning the therapy, it is the responsibility for those administering the therapy. This is like drug companies flooding the market with new drugs and blaming the lack of data on those raising concerns about their safety and effectiveness.

When you use numbers to support your point the correct numbers are important. You claimed it was 10’s of thousands of kids. The question posed to you was to support that claim.

 

[Max Power]

I've come around to thinking this stuff is an INSANE topic for those under 18. There is no single size its all discussion on the issues. There is no single point of treatment that addresses everything. People pushing this stuff are hurting kids. Letting your kids be who they are is one thing. Anyone promoting it is awful.

What was your position before and what was it that made you rethink things?

I thought keeping an open mind was ok and even a small level of exposure was ok.

Little did I know just how major of a topic this is in places like middle school. They think it's cool to be in this community and are only learning about it through people who are actively promoting it.

My breaking point was my middle son telling the whole family at the dinner table that he is pan sexual. I had a nice long and honest discussion with him. He is being influenced by his peer group (band kids) and frankly has no clue what he is talking about.

Several days later he comes back and says he is also non-binary and wants to go by they/them. Again we had another long talk and he confessed that his school has about 10 non-binary kids and a another handful who fall in the LGBTQ community.

My son doesn't understand what he is talking about and isnt mature enough for these conversations, but is being constantly exposed to it through his peer group. So like I said l, I think the over exposure is harmful.

How is this harmful? If he really doesn’t understand then he’ll get over it soon enough. In the meantime if he wants to be called “they” why not do it?

I honestly don’t see anything harmful about any of this. It’s not like they’re being peer pressured to take drugs, which would be a real concern. There are troubled kids out there who really do suffer from gender dysphoria. If increased openness and acceptance helps even one of them then it’s worth it.

Arent the LGBTQ at increased risk of violence and self harm? There are plenty of reasons to be concerned with a 13 year old running around bragging about his sexual orientation.

I dont want him going down a path he doeant understand while other people cheerlead him making these decisions.

Is embracing this worth it even if it hurts multiple kids?

I would say yes. The “hurt” you’re discussing is due to ignorance and intolerance, and it will only be solved by understanding, acceptance and love.

You arent a parent are you? It's my job to protect my children. Telling him to be proud, while likely going through a phase, and exposing himself to ignorance, intolerance, and potentially long term psychological issues is not being a good father.

If he was serious about it, I'd support him. I dont think he is because he cant answer basic questions about this stuff. It's our society promoting it and I believe it's all influenced

I am a parent. I have two daughters. If either had gender dysphoria I would do my best to be accepting and loving. They aren’t but they know people that are and treat them with respect. They are generally in support of trans, and I’m proud of them for not being intolerant like our generation has been.

And I'm not going to let a 13 year old boy self diagnose gender dysphoria. I see his maturity level daily and he isn't mature enough for this.

From talking to him, he doesnt have more than a surface level understanding of any of this.

I love him and will support him regardless. What baffles me is to see adults and society who don't even know the kid tell him how brave he is and that this is all perfectly fine.

There are some 13 year olds out there who do have gender dysphoria and who need help. My concern is that your solution is working against them.
Max, I am not trying to tell you how to be a parent. I’m quite sure you’re a wonderful dad. We have to find a solution here that respects your rights as a parent but also helps those teenagers who truly have this issue.

I agree there are a rare few 13 year olds with gender dysphoria, but this has been rare throughout the history of mankind. Why is it seemingly exploding now with a heavier dose of it in the US? It's because society is promoting and celebrating it in an impressionable age group.

So my question is, what "help" do trans or non-binary kids need? Does it need to come from qualified professional? Society doesnt know or understand enough to help the situation.

Also how is my solution of not flat out embracing what my child doesnt understand work against the situation? You can't broad brush my actions against a group when I'm discussing a specific situation here.

It’s not as rare as you think and it’s not exploding either. According to most medical experts this problem was always around, but kids are willing to admit it these days because there is more acceptance and medical treatment available. Take away the medical treatment, as some here keep insisting on, and you will have more suicides.

What's the number then? Show me some stats.

I said my kid just told me he has 10 non-binary kids in his school. Which is like 200 kids. That seems crazy high. He also goes to a pretty "red" district.

Again, what medical treatment is needed?

According to Wiki, 1.7-2.7 teens have gender dysphoria:

Gender dysphoria in children - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Even at the lessor amount that’s over 5 million children. It’s not an insignificant number and it’s not fantasy.

As far as medical treatment: I think you know. Therapy, hormone treatment, and in some cases surgery. These decisions should be a private affair between the teen, the teen’s parents, and their doctors. The government should never be involved.

The 1.7-2.7 number in kids and teens is from survey data and not clinically diagnosed cases, so we have to view that for what it is. The study also cited year over year increases in kids who identified as transgender which confirms this is blowing up if we see such rapid statistical increases.

Another aspect of that study was that adults only reported at 0.5% for gender dysphoria. So this either means it's a passing phase in kids or it has jumped multiple % points over a generation. With the numbers from my kid's school (5% in just the ones he is claiming), it really does seem like this is exploding.

I'm disagreeing with the treatment option as well. We cant say being non-binary is normal and then tell someone they need therapy for it. They likely do because of self harm factors, but then that doesn't make this "normal".

I think federal government should stay out of this, but states can do what they want.

I think the percentages are lower among adults because the realization occurs at puberty. Once the change has occurred the dysphoria is over, and the new man or woman is a healthy human being, no?

Why should states have the right to interfere with private medical decisions outside of a public health emergency (like Covid)? Why should any government ever be involved? I just don’t see it.

Gender dysphoria doesnt mean you have to change genders... it isnt over if you acknowledge it.

I think the state should have the right to regulate life altering medical procedures for minors. It's hard to argue that teens arent mature enough for x,y, and a but then say it's fine to start sex reassignment procedures.

Unless you simply want it to be illegal (which is IMO going to lead to more teen suicides) I don’t see what possible good can come from the state interfering in private medical decisions. It’s a recipe for disaster.

Your opinion is that not allowing kids to transition through medical means will lead them to commit suicide at a higher rate?

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

I've come around to thinking this stuff is an INSANE topic for those under 18. There is no single size its all discussion on the issues. There is no single point of treatment that addresses everything. People pushing this stuff are hurting kids. Letting your kids be who they are is one thing. Anyone promoting it is awful.

What was your position before and what was it that made you rethink things?

I thought keeping an open mind was ok and even a small level of exposure was ok.

Little did I know just how major of a topic this is in places like middle school. They think it's cool to be in this community and are only learning about it through people who are actively promoting it.

My breaking point was my middle son telling the whole family at the dinner table that he is pan sexual. I had a nice long and honest discussion with him. He is being influenced by his peer group (band kids) and frankly has no clue what he is talking about.

Several days later he comes back and says he is also non-binary and wants to go by they/them. Again we had another long talk and he confessed that his school has about 10 non-binary kids and a another handful who fall in the LGBTQ community.

My son doesn't understand what he is talking about and isnt mature enough for these conversations, but is being constantly exposed to it through his peer group. So like I said l, I think the over exposure is harmful.

How is this harmful? If he really doesn’t understand then he’ll get over it soon enough. In the meantime if he wants to be called “they” why not do it?

I honestly don’t see anything harmful about any of this. It’s not like they’re being peer pressured to take drugs, which would be a real concern. There are troubled kids out there who really do suffer from gender dysphoria. If increased openness and acceptance helps even one of them then it’s worth it.

Arent the LGBTQ at increased risk of violence and self harm? There are plenty of reasons to be concerned with a 13 year old running around bragging about his sexual orientation.

I dont want him going down a path he doeant understand while other people cheerlead him making these decisions.

Is embracing this worth it even if it hurts multiple kids?

I would say yes. The “hurt” you’re discussing is due to ignorance and intolerance, and it will only be solved by understanding, acceptance and love.

You arent a parent are you? It's my job to protect my children. Telling him to be proud, while likely going through a phase, and exposing himself to ignorance, intolerance, and potentially long term psychological issues is not being a good father.

If he was serious about it, I'd support him. I dont think he is because he cant answer basic questions about this stuff. It's our society promoting it and I believe it's all influenced

I am a parent. I have two daughters. If either had gender dysphoria I would do my best to be accepting and loving. They aren’t but they know people that are and treat them with respect. They are generally in support of trans, and I’m proud of them for not being intolerant like our generation has been.

And I'm not going to let a 13 year old boy self diagnose gender dysphoria. I see his maturity level daily and he isn't mature enough for this.

From talking to him, he doesnt have more than a surface level understanding of any of this.

I love him and will support him regardless. What baffles me is to see adults and society who don't even know the kid tell him how brave he is and that this is all perfectly fine.

Max Power,

Thanks for sharing your personal experience with your kid, I think it's awesome that he feels comfortable enough to talk to you about this stuff anfd that you had some long talks. You mentioned a bunch of times that you felt he wasn't really trans because he lacked some basic understandings. If it isn't too personal I'd be really interested in hearing about your conversations -- what you said to him, what he didn't understand, how he fellt after the conversations. Thanks.

 

[BladeRunner]

I've come around to thinking this stuff is an INSANE topic for those under 18. There is no single size its all discussion on the issues. There is no single point of treatment that addresses everything. People pushing this stuff are hurting kids. Letting your kids be who they are is one thing. Anyone promoting it is awful.

What was your position before and what was it that made you rethink things?

I thought keeping an open mind was ok and even a small level of exposure was ok.

Little did I know just how major of a topic this is in places like middle school. They think it's cool to be in this community and are only learning about it through people who are actively promoting it.

My breaking point was my middle son telling the whole family at the dinner table that he is pan sexual. I had a nice long and honest discussion with him. He is being influenced by his peer group (band kids) and frankly has no clue what he is talking about.

Several days later he comes back and says he is also non-binary and wants to go by they/them. Again we had another long talk and he confessed that his school has about 10 non-binary kids and a another handful who fall in the LGBTQ community.

My son doesn't understand what he is talking about and isnt mature enough for these conversations, but is being constantly exposed to it through his peer group. So like I said l, I think the over exposure is harmful.

Yep. This whole "theye're born this way" argument is falling by the wayside as we see this group explode in numbers. There is no way on Earth that THAT many people are born that way. That lifestyle is diametrically opposed to the #1 Prime Directive, which is procreation and advancing the species survival. There is no way nature makes this many anomalies.

I think instead of "born this way" it's more like "it's trendy this week" is a stronger argument.

I have no idea whether or not people are born that way. I don’t see that it makes any difference. And I don’t believe in the “prime directive”.

i have to add too that the notion, which seems to be growing prevalent among cultural conservatives and people generally opposed to trans, that kids are doing it because it’s “trendy” strikes me as really absurd.

And yet, the numbers don't lie.

This group should be declining in numbers, not growing. Or, at the very least, remaining a very low % of the overall population.

 

[BladeRunner]

I've come around to thinking this stuff is an INSANE topic for those under 18. There is no single size its all discussion on the issues. There is no single point of treatment that addresses everything. People pushing this stuff are hurting kids. Letting your kids be who they are is one thing. Anyone promoting it is awful.

What was your position before and what was it that made you rethink things?

I thought keeping an open mind was ok and even a small level of exposure was ok.

Little did I know just how major of a topic this is in places like middle school. They think it's cool to be in this community and are only learning about it through people who are actively promoting it.

My breaking point was my middle son telling the whole family at the dinner table that he is pan sexual. I had a nice long and honest discussion with him. He is being influenced by his peer group (band kids) and frankly has no clue what he is talking about.

Several days later he comes back and says he is also non-binary and wants to go by they/them. Again we had another long talk and he confessed that his school has about 10 non-binary kids and a another handful who fall in the LGBTQ community.

My son doesn't understand what he is talking about and isnt mature enough for these conversations, but is being constantly exposed to it through his peer group. So like I said l, I think the over exposure is harmful.

How is this harmful? If he really doesn’t understand then he’ll get over it soon enough. In the meantime if he wants to be called “they” why not do it?

I honestly don’t see anything harmful about any of this. It’s not like they’re being peer pressured to take drugs, which would be a real concern. There are troubled kids out there who really do suffer from gender dysphoria. If increased openness and acceptance helps even one of them then it’s worth it.

Arent the LGBTQ at increased risk of violence and self harm? There are plenty of reasons to be concerned with a 13 year old running around bragging about his sexual orientation.

I dont want him going down a path he doeant understand while other people cheerlead him making these decisions.

Is embracing this worth it even if it hurts multiple kids?

I would say yes. The “hurt” you’re discussing is due to ignorance and intolerance, and it will only be solved by understanding, acceptance and love.

You arent a parent are you? It's my job to protect my children. Telling him to be proud, while likely going through a phase, and exposing himself to ignorance, intolerance, and potentially long term psychological issues is not being a good father.

If he was serious about it, I'd support him. I dont think he is because he cant answer basic questions about this stuff. It's our society promoting it and I believe it's all influenced

I am a parent. I have two daughters. If either had gender dysphoria I would do my best to be accepting and loving. They aren’t but they know people that are and treat them with respect. They are generally in support of trans, and I’m proud of them for not being intolerant like our generation has been.

And I'm not going to let a 13 year old boy self diagnose gender dysphoria. I see his maturity level daily and he isn't mature enough for this.

From talking to him, he doesnt have more than a surface level understanding of any of this.

I love him and will support him regardless. What baffles me is to see adults and society who don't even know the kid tell him how brave he is and that this is all perfectly fine.

There are some 13 year olds out there who do have gender dysphoria and who need help. My concern is that your solution is working against them.
Max, I am not trying to tell you how to be a parent. I’m quite sure you’re a wonderful dad. We have to find a solution here that respects your rights as a parent but also helps those teenagers who truly have this issue.

I agree there are a rare few 13 year olds with gender dysphoria, but this has been rare throughout the history of mankind. Why is it seemingly exploding now with a heavier dose of it in the US? It's because society is promoting and celebrating it in an impressionable age group.

So my question is, what "help" do trans or non-binary kids need? Does it need to come from qualified professional? Society doesnt know or understand enough to help the situation.

Also how is my solution of not flat out embracing what my child doesnt understand work against the situation? You can't broad brush my actions against a group when I'm discussing a specific situation here.

It’s not as rare as you think and it’s not exploding either. According to most medical experts this problem was always around, but kids are willing to admit it these days because there is more acceptance and medical treatment available. Take away the medical treatment, as some here keep insisting on, and you will have more suicides.

What's the number then? Show me some stats.

I said my kid just told me he has 10 non-binary kids in his school. Which is like 200 kids. That seems crazy high. He also goes to a pretty "red" district.

Again, what medical treatment is needed?

According to Wiki, 1.7-2.7 teens have gender dysphoria:

Gender dysphoria in children - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Even at the lessor amount that’s over 5 million children. It’s not an insignificant number and it’s not fantasy.

As far as medical treatment: I think you know. Therapy, hormone treatment, and in some cases surgery. These decisions should be a private affair between the teen, the teen’s parents, and their doctors. The government should never be involved.

The 1.7-2.7 number in kids and teens is from survey data and not clinically diagnosed cases, so we have to view that for what it is. The study also cited year over year increases in kids who identified as transgender which confirms this is blowing up if we see such rapid statistical increases.

Another aspect of that study was that adults only reported at 0.5% for gender dysphoria. So this either means it's a passing phase in kids or it has jumped multiple % points over a generation. With the numbers from my kid's school (5% in just the ones he is claiming), it really does seem like this is exploding.

I'm disagreeing with the treatment option as well. We cant say being non-binary is normal and then tell someone they need therapy for it. They likely do because of self harm factors, but then that doesn't make this "normal".

I think federal government should stay out of this, but states can do what they want.

I think the percentages are lower among adults because the realization occurs at puberty. Once the change has occurred the dysphoria is over, and the new man or woman is a healthy human being, no?

Why should states have the right to interfere with private medical decisions outside of a public health emergency (like Covid)? Why should any government ever be involved? I just don’t see it.

Gender dysphoria doesnt mean you have to change genders... it isnt over if you acknowledge it.

I think the state should have the right to regulate life altering medical procedures for minors. It's hard to argue that teens arent mature enough for x,y, and a but then say it's fine to start sex reassignment procedures.

Unless you simply want it to be illegal (which is IMO going to lead to more teen suicides) I don’t see what possible good can come from the state interfering in private medical decisions. It’s a recipe for disaster.

Your opinion is that not allowing kids to transition through medical means will lead them to commit suicide at a higher rate?

They're already committing suicide at a absurd rate, regardless of whether they get surgery or not. Surgery does not address the real problem - a mental illness of the kind where the body is at war with the mind.

 

[jon_mx]

Oh wait here is an actual series of studies on this subject:

Regret after Gender-affirmation Surgery: A Systematic... : Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery – Global Open

The aim of this study was to evaluate the prevalence of regret in transgender individuals who underwent GAS and evaluate associated factors. Methods: A systematic review of several databases was conducted. Random-effects meta-analysis, meta-regression, and subgroup and sensitivity analyses were...

journals.lww.com

Approximately 1% regret having the surgery. So I was a little off when I suggested .01%. It’s higher than that. Jon mx, however, is completely wrong about this.

The 1% number is still absurd because it does not even remotely apply to what is going in today. They got the 1% number by reviewing achieves of studies. This data is based on a time when it was adults making adult decisions who were mature enough and had sufficient pychological analysis to properly make a decision they would be happy with. This is grossly different from what is going on today when most these therapies are targeted towards teens who have numerous other mental stresses and are not mature enough to understand the longterm impact.

I have zero issues with adults deciding such things. But it is absolutely asinine to project that same regret rate onto children especially when you realize it is simply based on self-diagnosis from the child and involves zero physchological analysis.

But you are not one for logic, so the above explanation will be ignored.

 

[jon_mx]

Still waiting for the link for 50K kids annually getting stuff chopped off or being made infertile by hormone treatment.

Why aren't you waiting for the data which really matters....how effective are these treatments and what are the long term impacts. I have read several recently they talk about the lack of data and lack of evidence to support their use and describe the use if puberty blockers as common. I am left to extrapolate based on what little data is available. The people who have the data, don't release the data. And that is a problem. If you gave a rats butt about children being permantly harmed, you would be far more interested in the data which proves these treatments are safe and effective.

For every one of the hundreds of stories out there about people who regret these therapies and the irreversible damage it has done, there are probably a hundred who remain silent and don't want to go public.

But yeah, blame me for not having percise statistics and not the nazis experimenting on children who are suppressing the data. The sex change mills have grown from one to over 300 since 2008. They know exactly what they are doing and hope they don't get exposed like they did in Britain.

Wouldn‘t it have been much easier to just say “I don’t have the stats to back up my claim” then to spend paragraphs basically saying just that.

Because the lack of data is not the responsibility of those questioning the therapy, it is the responsibility for those administering the therapy. This is like drug companies flooding the market with new drugs and blaming the lack of data on those raising concerns about their safety and effectiveness.

When you use numbers to support your point the correct numbers are important. You claimed it was 10’s of thousands of kids. The question posed to you was to support that claim.

If there are 50 million children and 0.6 percent are trans, that is 300,000 trans kids. Tens of thousands is conservstive.

 

[Max Power]

Max Power,

Thanks for sharing your personal experience with your kid, I think it's awesome that he feels comfortable enough to talk to you about this stuff anfd that you had some long talks. You mentioned a bunch of times that you felt he wasn't really trans because he lacked some basic understandings. If it isn't too personal I'd be really interested in hearing about your conversations -- what you said to him, what he didn't understand, how he fellt after the conversations. Thanks.

So he first came out as pansexual and that was our first talk. I asked him what that was and how he knows that's who he is. He told me its being attracted to a person's personality, regardless of their sex. That seems to be the right use of the term.

I asked him if he was physically attracted to men and he said it doesn't matter their sex. That really wasn't an answer to me, so I rephrased it to ask when he gets aroused is he thinking about guys or girls. I could tell that was embarrassing to him and he tried to play it off that he doesn't really know. I think he said all sorts of things do. He's 13 and I've been in his room, I know what's happening in there.

I asked how he came to the conclusion he was pan and he said his friends were talking about it and he thought it applied to him. I talked to him about going through puberty and having thoughts that are tough to understand, and that he doesn't need to put every feeling in a box with a label on it. Those were the highlights for that conversation.

Then 2 days later he tells his sister he is non-binary, so I ask him about it. I dont even have a good understanding of non-binary vs transgender. So I ask him similar questions as I did before.

He says non-binary means he doesnt want to identify as either a male or female. So I ask what it means to identify as either and he gives me stereotype answers about traditional gender roles. So I ask how or if I should treat him any differently and he says I shouldnt treat him any differently he just wants the pronouns they/them now.

He goes back to the stereotype stuff again and says he doesnt like sports and people should assume he does... ok... Then starts talking about the PE teachers pay more attention to the good athletes and that's "sexist". So of course I try to get him to break down how that's sexist and he has no idea. He's just repeating what other kids say.

After this conversation goes way into left field, I bring it back to what started it and that's when he explained there are 10 other non-binary kids in his school. He is saying this in a very bragging manner in my opinion.

I just repeat some of the same things and warn him about the dangers that an come from openly bragging about that stuff. It all falls on deaf ears.

Probably a good time to mention he has ADD and is on medication to treat it. He is a smart kid, but struggles with complex thoughts in his everyday life. He has a history of doing baffling things and not being able to explain why he did them.

All that said, I think this is more of an attention seeking thing or him having some complicated thoughts and others steering him into putting these label on it. I really dont know what the "criteria" is for these diagnoses.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

Max Power,

Thanks for sharing your personal experience with your kid, I think it's awesome that he feels comfortable enough to talk to you about this stuff anfd that you had some long talks. You mentioned a bunch of times that you felt he wasn't really trans because he lacked some basic understandings. If it isn't too personal I'd be really interested in hearing about your conversations -- what you said to him, what he didn't understand, how he fellt after the conversations. Thanks.

So he first came out as pansexual and that was our first talk. I asked him what that was and how he knows that's who he is. He told me its being attracted to a person's personality, regardless of their sex. That seems to be the right use of the term.

I asked him if he was physically attracted to men and he said it doesn't matter their sex. That really wasn't an answer to me, so I rephrased it to ask when he gets aroused is he thinking about guys or girls. I could tell that was embarrassing to him and he tried to play it off that he doesn't really know. I think he said all sorts of things do. He's 13 and I've been in his room, I know what's happening in there.

I asked how he came to the conclusion he was pan and he said his friends were talking about it and he thought it applied to him. I talked to him about going through puberty and having thoughts that are tough to understand, and that he doesn't need to put every feeling in a box with a label on it. Those were the highlights for that conversation.

Then 2 days later he tells his sister he is non-binary, so I ask him about it. I dont even have a good understanding of non-binary vs transgender. So I ask him similar questions as I did before.

He says non-binary means he doesnt want to identify as either a male or female. So I ask what it means to identify as either and he gives me stereotype answers about traditional gender roles. So I ask how or if I should treat him any differently and he says I shouldnt treat him any differently he just wants the pronouns they/them now.

He goes back to the stereotype stuff again and says he doesnt like sports and people should assume he does... ok... Then starts talking about the PE teachers pay more attention to the good athletes and that's "sexist". So of course I try to get him to break down how that's sexist and he has no idea. He's just repeating what other kids say.

After this conversation goes way into left field, I bring it back to what started it and that's when he explained there are 10 other non-binary kids in his school. He is saying this in a very bragging manner in my opinion.

I just repeat some of the same things and warn him about the dangers that an come from openly bragging about that stuff. It all falls on deaf ears.

Probably a good time to mention he has ADD and is on medication to treat it. He is a smart kid, but struggles with complex thoughts in his everyday life. He has a history of doing baffling things and not being able to explain why he did them.

All that said, I think this is more of an attention seeking thing or him having some complicated thoughts and others steering him into putting these label on it. I really dont know what the "criteria" is for these diagnoses.

Thanks for this I really appreciate it and it sounds like you’re a great dad. I want to think about some stuff you wrote and I’ll probably have more to say tomorrow.

 

[timschochet]

Oh wait here is an actual series of studies on this subject:

Regret after Gender-affirmation Surgery: A Systematic... : Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery – Global Open

The aim of this study was to evaluate the prevalence of regret in transgender individuals who underwent GAS and evaluate associated factors. Methods: A systematic review of several databases was conducted. Random-effects meta-analysis, meta-regression, and subgroup and sensitivity analyses were...

journals.lww.com

Approximately 1% regret having the surgery. So I was a little off when I suggested .01%. It’s higher than that. Jon mx, however, is completely wrong about this.

The 1% number is still absurd because it does not even remotely apply to what is going in today. They got the 1% number by reviewing achieves of studies. This data is based on a time when it was adults making adult decisions who were mature enough and had sufficient pychological analysis to properly make a decision they would be happy with. This is grossly different from what is going on today when most these therapies are targeted towards teens who have numerous other mental stresses and are not mature enough to understand the longterm impact.

I have zero issues with adults deciding such things. But it is absolutely asinine to project that same regret rate onto children especially when you realize it is simply based on self-diagnosis from the child and involves zero physchological analysis.

But you are not one for logic, so the above explanation will be ignored.

You were doing fine- I don’t agree with you but you were making a legitimate argument about the differences between adults and minors when it comes to how the law should proceed. It’s a reasonable disagreement to have.

Then you had to blow it by saying “but you are not one for logic”. I don’t understand why you consistently resort to insults, and I’ve never understood your anger on this and a variety of other issues.

 

[BladeRunner]

I find it simply fascinating that those who say they are/were bullied for being LGBTQ are now the ones doing the bullying. They're literally doing the same things that they say others are doing to them now that they have a little power.

I mean, did we NOT know this was going to happen?

 

[timschochet]

I find it simply fascinating that those who say they are/were bullied for being LGBTQ are now the ones doing the bullying. They're literally doing the same things that they say others are doing to them now that they have a little power.

I mean, did we NOT know this was going to happen?

What bullying are you referring to?

 

[BladeRunner]

I find it simply fascinating that those who say they are/were bullied for being LGBTQ are now the ones doing the bullying. They're literally doing the same things that they say others are doing to them now that they have a little power.

I mean, did we NOT know this was going to happen?

What bullying are you referring to?

Several stories in here from posters regarding there kids. Also, people losing jobs/livelihoods because they don't "gender" someone appropriately, etcetera, etcetera. The evidence is there and it is overwhelming. Libs of TikTok is a good start, but we've YouTube can help you out too.

Actually, this is probably more the "T" in LGBTQ than anything else. The rest of the Alphabet People are going along for the ride, though, since it mostly benefits them too.

 

[FairWarning]

I've come around to thinking this stuff is an INSANE topic for those under 18. There is no single size its all discussion on the issues. There is no single point of treatment that addresses everything. People pushing this stuff are hurting kids. Letting your kids be who they are is one thing. Anyone promoting it is awful.

What was your position before and what was it that made you rethink things?

I thought keeping an open mind was ok and even a small level of exposure was ok.

Little did I know just how major of a topic this is in places like middle school. They think it's cool to be in this community and are only learning about it through people who are actively promoting it.

My breaking point was my middle son telling the whole family at the dinner table that he is pan sexual. I had a nice long and honest discussion with him. He is being influenced by his peer group (band kids) and frankly has no clue what he is talking about.

Several days later he comes back and says he is also non-binary and wants to go by they/them. Again we had another long talk and he confessed that his school has about 10 non-binary kids and a another handful who fall in the LGBTQ community.

My son doesn't understand what he is talking about and isnt mature enough for these conversations, but is being constantly exposed to it through his peer group. So like I said l, I think the over exposure is harmful.

How is this harmful? If he really doesn’t understand then he’ll get over it soon enough. In the meantime if he wants to be called “they” why not do it?

I honestly don’t see anything harmful about any of this. It’s not like they’re being peer pressured to take drugs, which would be a real concern. There are troubled kids out there who really do suffer from gender dysphoria. If increased openness and acceptance helps even one of them then it’s worth it.

Arent the LGBTQ at increased risk of violence and self harm? There are plenty of reasons to be concerned with a 13 year old running around bragging about his sexual orientation.

I dont want him going down a path he doeant understand while other people cheerlead him making these decisions.

Is embracing this worth it even if it hurts multiple kids?

I would say yes. The “hurt” you’re discussing is due to ignorance and intolerance, and it will only be solved by understanding, acceptance and love.

You arent a parent are you? It's my job to protect my children. Telling him to be proud, while likely going through a phase, and exposing himself to ignorance, intolerance, and potentially long term psychological issues is not being a good father.

If he was serious about it, I'd support him. I dont think he is because he cant answer basic questions about this stuff. It's our society promoting it and I believe it's all influenced

I am a parent. I have two daughters. If either had gender dysphoria I would do my best to be accepting and loving. They aren’t but they know people that are and treat them with respect. They are generally in support of trans, and I’m proud of them for not being intolerant like our generation has been.

And I'm not going to let a 13 year old boy self diagnose gender dysphoria. I see his maturity level daily and he isn't mature enough for this.

From talking to him, he doesnt have more than a surface level understanding of any of this.

I love him and will support him regardless. What baffles me is to see adults and society who don't even know the kid tell him how brave he is and that this is all perfectly fine.

There are some 13 year olds out there who do have gender dysphoria and who need help. My concern is that your solution is working against them.
Max, I am not trying to tell you how to be a parent. I’m quite sure you’re a wonderful dad. We have to find a solution here that respects your rights as a parent but also helps those teenagers who truly have this issue.

I agree there are a rare few 13 year olds with gender dysphoria, but this has been rare throughout the history of mankind. Why is it seemingly exploding now with a heavier dose of it in the US? It's because society is promoting and celebrating it in an impressionable age group.

So my question is, what "help" do trans or non-binary kids need? Does it need to come from qualified professional? Society doesnt know or understand enough to help the situation.

Also how is my solution of not flat out embracing what my child doesnt understand work against the situation? You can't broad brush my actions against a group when I'm discussing a specific situation here.

It’s not as rare as you think and it’s not exploding either. According to most medical experts this problem was always around, but kids are willing to admit it these days because there is more acceptance and medical treatment available. Take away the medical treatment, as some here keep insisting on, and you will have more suicides.

What's the number then? Show me some stats.

I said my kid just told me he has 10 non-binary kids in his school. Which is like 200 kids. That seems crazy high. He also goes to a pretty "red" district.

Again, what medical treatment is needed?

According to Wiki, 1.7-2.7 teens have gender dysphoria:

Gender dysphoria in children - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Even at the lessor amount that’s over 5 million children. It’s not an insignificant number and it’s not fantasy.

As far as medical treatment: I think you know. Therapy, hormone treatment, and in some cases surgery. These decisions should be a private affair between the teen, the teen’s parents, and their doctors. The government should never be involved.

How about teachers who tell the kids not to tell their parents, the school is a safe haven?

What about them? I don’t think teens should have to tell their parents if they’re concerned about the reaction.

Good luck paying for that. Glad I don’t have kids.

 

[:deadbevo:]

I've come around to thinking this stuff is an INSANE topic for those under 18. There is no single size its all discussion on the issues. There is no single point of treatment that addresses everything. People pushing this stuff are hurting kids. Letting your kids be who they are is one thing. Anyone promoting it is awful.

What was your position before and what was it that made you rethink things?

I thought keeping an open mind was ok and even a small level of exposure was ok.

Little did I know just how major of a topic this is in places like middle school. They think it's cool to be in this community and are only learning about it through people who are actively promoting it.

My breaking point was my middle son telling the whole family at the dinner table that he is pan sexual. I had a nice long and honest discussion with him. He is being influenced by his peer group (band kids) and frankly has no clue what he is talking about.

Several days later he comes back and says he is also non-binary and wants to go by they/them. Again we had another long talk and he confessed that his school has about 10 non-binary kids and a another handful who fall in the LGBTQ community.

My son doesn't understand what he is talking about and isnt mature enough for these conversations, but is being constantly exposed to it through his peer group. So like I said l, I think the over exposure is harmful.

How is this harmful? If he really doesn’t understand then he’ll get over it soon enough. In the meantime if he wants to be called “they” why not do it?

I honestly don’t see anything harmful about any of this. It’s not like they’re being peer pressured to take drugs, which would be a real concern. There are troubled kids out there who really do suffer from gender dysphoria. If increased openness and acceptance helps even one of them then it’s worth it.

You aren't being honest in the least when you post this.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Max Power,

Thanks for sharing your personal experience with your kid, I think it's awesome that he feels comfortable enough to talk to you about this stuff anfd that you had some long talks. You mentioned a bunch of times that you felt he wasn't really trans because he lacked some basic understandings. If it isn't too personal I'd be really interested in hearing about your conversations -- what you said to him, what he didn't understand, how he fellt after the conversations. Thanks.

So he first came out as pansexual and that was our first talk. I asked him what that was and how he knows that's who he is. He told me its being attracted to a person's personality, regardless of their sex. That seems to be the right use of the term.

I asked him if he was physically attracted to men and he said it doesn't matter their sex. That really wasn't an answer to me, so I rephrased it to ask when he gets aroused is he thinking about guys or girls. I could tell that was embarrassing to him and he tried to play it off that he doesn't really know. I think he said all sorts of things do. He's 13 and I've been in his room, I know what's happening in there.

I asked how he came to the conclusion he was pan and he said his friends were talking about it and he thought it applied to him. I talked to him about going through puberty and having thoughts that are tough to understand, and that he doesn't need to put every feeling in a box with a label on it. Those were the highlights for that conversation.

Then 2 days later he tells his sister he is non-binary, so I ask him about it. I dont even have a good understanding of non-binary vs transgender. So I ask him similar questions as I did before.

He says non-binary means he doesnt want to identify as either a male or female. So I ask what it means to identify as either and he gives me stereotype answers about traditional gender roles. So I ask how or if I should treat him any differently and he says I shouldnt treat him any differently he just wants the pronouns they/them now.

He goes back to the stereotype stuff again and says he doesnt like sports and people should assume he does... ok... Then starts talking about the PE teachers pay more attention to the good athletes and that's "sexist". So of course I try to get him to break down how that's sexist and he has no idea. He's just repeating what other kids say.

After this conversation goes way into left field, I bring it back to what started it and that's when he explained there are 10 other non-binary kids in his school. He is saying this in a very bragging manner in my opinion.

I just repeat some of the same things and warn him about the dangers that an come from openly bragging about that stuff. It all falls on deaf ears.

Probably a good time to mention he has ADD and is on medication to treat it. He is a smart kid, but struggles with complex thoughts in his everyday life. He has a history of doing baffling things and not being able to explain why he did them.

All that said, I think this is more of an attention seeking thing or him having some complicated thoughts and others steering him into putting these label on it. I really dont know what the "criteria" is for these diagnoses.

Max, thanks for sharing. I'm sure that's not what you thought you were signing up for when you became a parent, but I want to echo what others said: It sounds like you handled it very well and are a caring father. (Side note: Dealing with a confusing, potentially charged situation by asking lots of questions is a great tactic for making the other person feel understood and preventing things from escalating.)

That said, your story highlights something I think has been missing from the recent debate over the various laws around sexuality and gender in schools. I think far too many of these laws are based on an illusion of control. People seem to think that, if kids don't hear about this stuff from their teachers, and parents don't talk about it at home, they can "protect" kids from learning about it. But as your example shows -- and as we've seen in a million other "vices" parents have tried to control, from sex to drugs to rock 'n' roll -- kids are often influenced far more by their peer group and the culture around them than they are by the adults in their life. And yes, they're probably going to learn about stuff long before what we might think is an appropriate age.

I don't have a specific policy recommendation based on that insight, it's just something I think we should all keep in mind

 

[timschochet]

I've come around to thinking this stuff is an INSANE topic for those under 18. There is no single size its all discussion on the issues. There is no single point of treatment that addresses everything. People pushing this stuff are hurting kids. Letting your kids be who they are is one thing. Anyone promoting it is awful.

What was your position before and what was it that made you rethink things?

I thought keeping an open mind was ok and even a small level of exposure was ok.

Little did I know just how major of a topic this is in places like middle school. They think it's cool to be in this community and are only learning about it through people who are actively promoting it.

My breaking point was my middle son telling the whole family at the dinner table that he is pan sexual. I had a nice long and honest discussion with him. He is being influenced by his peer group (band kids) and frankly has no clue what he is talking about.

Several days later he comes back and says he is also non-binary and wants to go by they/them. Again we had another long talk and he confessed that his school has about 10 non-binary kids and a another handful who fall in the LGBTQ community.

My son doesn't understand what he is talking about and isnt mature enough for these conversations, but is being constantly exposed to it through his peer group. So like I said l, I think the over exposure is harmful.

How is this harmful? If he really doesn’t understand then he’ll get over it soon enough. In the meantime if he wants to be called “they” why not do it?

I honestly don’t see anything harmful about any of this. It’s not like they’re being peer pressured to take drugs, which would be a real concern. There are troubled kids out there who really do suffer from gender dysphoria. If increased openness and acceptance helps even one of them then it’s worth it.

You aren't being honest in the least when you post this.

Thanks for the reply, but I think I know when I’m being honest.

Let me repeat: I honestly don’t see anything harmful about any of this.

 

[Sunshine6854]

I find it simply fascinating that those who say they are/were bullied for being LGBTQ are now the ones doing the bullying. They're literally doing the same things that they say others are doing to them now that they have a little power.

I mean, did we NOT know this was going to happen?

What bullying are you referring to?

Several stories in here from posters regarding there kids. Also, people losing jobs/livelihoods because they don't "gender" someone appropriately, etcetera, etcetera. The evidence is there and it is overwhelming. Libs of TikTok is a good start, but we've YouTube can help you out too.

Actually, this is probably more the "T" in LGBTQ than anything else. The rest of the Alphabet People are going along for the ride, though, since it mostly benefits them too.

People have been bullied all throughout history for plenty of reasons. I'd wager that being bullied by the alphabet folks for not being an alphabet person falls very very low on the bullying list. Maybe focus your bullying concerns on jocks bullying nerds? That's obviously a much bigger issue.

 

[jon_mx]

I've come around to thinking this stuff is an INSANE topic for those under 18. There is no single size its all discussion on the issues. There is no single point of treatment that addresses everything. People pushing this stuff are hurting kids. Letting your kids be who they are is one thing. Anyone promoting it is awful.

What was your position before and what was it that made you rethink things?

I thought keeping an open mind was ok and even a small level of exposure was ok.

Little did I know just how major of a topic this is in places like middle school. They think it's cool to be in this community and are only learning about it through people who are actively promoting it.

My breaking point was my middle son telling the whole family at the dinner table that he is pan sexual. I had a nice long and honest discussion with him. He is being influenced by his peer group (band kids) and frankly has no clue what he is talking about.

Several days later he comes back and says he is also non-binary and wants to go by they/them. Again we had another long talk and he confessed that his school has about 10 non-binary kids and a another handful who fall in the LGBTQ community.

My son doesn't understand what he is talking about and isnt mature enough for these conversations, but is being constantly exposed to it through his peer group. So like I said l, I think the over exposure is harmful.

How is this harmful? If he really doesn’t understand then he’ll get over it soon enough. In the meantime if he wants to be called “they” why not do it?

I honestly don’t see anything harmful about any of this. It’s not like they’re being peer pressured to take drugs, which would be a real concern. There are troubled kids out there who really do suffer from gender dysphoria. If increased openness and acceptance helps even one of them then it’s worth it.

You aren't being honest in the least when you post this.

Thanks for the reply, but I think I know when I’m being honest.

Let me repeat: I honestly don’t see anything harmful about any of this.

Of course they are being peer pressured into taking drugs. There are schools that have classes of kids with five, six, seven on puberty blocks. How in the world is something that is supposed to be extremepy rare. like 0.6 percent of the population now showing up in 20 percent of a class? You realize a lot of kids who go on blockers end up with surgery? You have already stated that most of these kids grow out of it. How in the world is a child who can not even legally consent to sex, able to make a decision which will permently destroy his ability to reproduce and put him in a state of requiring expensive medical treatments for the rest of their lives not being harmed. You seriously see no harm in that? Especially when they just grow out of it. No, let's cut off his balls.