Lockheed Martin cuts $ to BSA for anti-gay/atheist rules. (1 Viewer)

[fatness]

When Boy Scouts of America delegates voted at last month’s National Council meeting to allow gay youth to become Scouts but to continue banning gay and lesbian adults, the organization put itself in a precarious position.

The Boy Scouts’ new policy has managed to infuriate groups that oppose and groups that embrace discrimination against LGBT people. Corporations and charitable organizations balked at the fact that the organization decided to continue to discriminate against adult members and troop leaders based on their sexual orientation. At the same time, conservative groups and some churches were irate that the Scouts would allow openly gay youth to join.

The result has been an exodus of support from both sides of the debate.

http://americanindependent.com/219725/after-new-policy-boy-scouts-still-losing-money-sponsors

 

[timschochet]

Here's the people you ought to be mad at.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3103517/posts

Here's why.

I can't believe my brother spends time in that website. Those people are out of their ####### minds.

 

[mad sweeney]

Here's the people you ought to be mad at.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3103517/posts

Here's why.

I can't believe my brother spends time in that website. Those people are out of their ####### minds.

Weird, I don't find anything on that site trashing Lockheed Martin for this either. Though they do jump on the "free speech" bandwagon driven by supposed Constitutionalists, who don't know the Constitution, about Duck Dynasty. Surely, SURELY this LM issue should be front and center of the war against the Homosexual Agenda!!! Where oh where are all of the defenders of Christian Values? Where is the moral defense against the Evil Liberal Left? Why is no one fighting for our children, the next generation of morality? Will they stop taking payoffs and lobbyist perks and advisor jobs from this dirty liberal defense contractor in a parallel protest along with their new war against A&E?

 

[KCitons]

Why would I be mad at them? They aren't posting in the FFA.

That, and I only have enough time for one obsession.

Because they're one ones pushing the BSA in the anti-gay direction, which currently is "no gay leaders". That's something you don't agree with, you've said that.

Yet instead of taking them on you obsess about one guy, me, who won't buy one Christmas tree a year from BSA.

Basically you're afraid to go after the source of the problem.

Yeah, it's only you.

You seem worked up about this.

Oh yeah, almost forgot this --->

 

[mad sweeney]

Why would I be mad at them? They aren't posting in the FFA.

That, and I only have enough time for one obsession.

Because they're one ones pushing the BSA in the anti-gay direction, which currently is "no gay leaders". That's something you don't agree with, you've said that.

Yet instead of taking them on you obsess about one guy, me, who won't buy one Christmas tree a year from BSA.

Basically you're afraid to go after the source of the problem.

Yeah, it's only you. You seem worked up about this.

Oh yeah, almost forgot this --->

Yeah right. The guy with 50+ posts in the thread! including comparisons (poor ones) of Scouts being crack babies and war casualties, who flailed about trying to make a point about living in the US, who admits to being caught up in it due to him actually being involved, who continuously tries to convince people not to boycott and who goes off on tangents about what another post means by not including their entire manifesto on the subject in one tidy post... is probably not the guy who's worked up about this. You're as convincing in this endeavor as you have been all thread, namely

 

[fatness]

Do I think everyone should turn their backs on the BSA? No. Does there need to be pressure put on them to rethink their views? Yes. But it needs to be done in a manner that doesn't effect the kids.

How did you do that?

Did it work?

 

[mad sweeney]

Do I think everyone should turn their backs on the BSA? No. Does there need to be pressure put on them to rethink their views? Yes. But it needs to be done in a manner that doesn't effect the kids.

How did you do that?

Did it work?

By convincing people that they're the bad guys for not thinking of the children (straight ones of course) when deciding to not just keep the money rolling into an organization that actively promotes discrimination.

 

[fatness]

Do you discuss BSA's anti-gay-leader policy with your kids? Or hide it from them? Do you tell them why you think it's a good policy? Or do you tell them why it's a bad policy but it's OK to ignore it, lose good leaders, be bigoted, so that funds keep coming in?

We have discussed it with our kids. No reason to hide it from them. I didn't tell them anything but the truth and the facts. We let them ask questions and form their own opinions.

Already said, my kids are 16, and they didn't know anything about the decision.

Which is it?

 

[KCitons]

Why would I be mad at them? They aren't posting in the FFA.

That, and I only have enough time for one obsession.

Because they're one ones pushing the BSA in the anti-gay direction, which currently is "no gay leaders". That's something you don't agree with, you've said that.

Yet instead of taking them on you obsess about one guy, me, who won't buy one Christmas tree a year from BSA.

Basically you're afraid to go after the source of the problem.

Yeah, it's only you. You seem worked up about this.

Oh yeah, almost forgot this --->

Yeah right. The guy with 50+ posts in the thread! including comparisons (poor ones) of Scouts being crack babies and war casualties, who flailed about trying to make a point about living in the US, who admits to being caught up in it due to him actually being involved, who continuously tries to convince people not to boycott and who goes off on tangents about what another post means by not including their entire manifesto on the subject in one tidy post... is probably not the guy who's worked up about this. You're as convincing in this endeavor as you have been all thread, namely

Yeah, it would be easier to spread my posts out over two or three users in this thread. Since I have to respond to multiple people, the post count goes up.

Do you discuss BSA's anti-gay-leader policy with your kids? Or hide it from them? Do you tell them why you think it's a good policy? Or do you tell them why it's a bad policy but it's OK to ignore it, lose good leaders, be bigoted, so that funds keep coming in?

We have discussed it with our kids. No reason to hide it from them. I didn't tell them anything but the truth and the facts. We let them ask questions and form their own opinions.

Already said, my kids are 16, and they didn't know anything about the decision.

Which is it?

Nice try. How long did it take you to put that together.

Try to follow along. My kids have been in Cub/Boy Scouts for approx 7 years. Up until the past few months, there has been zero discussion about the BSA stance on gay scouts. It was never discussed at Troop meetings, or between us and my kids. Honestly, there were gay scouts already participating.

When the vote was made to allow openly gay scouts, there was a lot of media attention. My kids saw this, and we discussed it with them. They didn't notice anything different before, during, or after that change. In fact if it wasn't for the media, they wouldn't have known about it to begin with.

Fast forward to today, and it has been discussed a couple more times. Specifically in regards to the BSA's stance on gay leaders. I may have another discussion with them, do to this thread. Depending on the timing and the media coverage, my kids may not even know if the BSA changes their stance.

While I expected corporations to withhold donations, I never really considered that the people of a community would take the fight directly to the scouts themselves.

Either way, my kids will still continue on their path to their Eagle Scout. I'm proud of everything they've accomplished through the years, regardless of the BSA's stance. I've seen them help countless people regardless of race, religion or sexual orientation. I'm certain they will continue to do so, probably even help a few of those people that choose not to support them at this time.

 

[fatness]

Latest casualty of Boy Scouts' gay ban — Disney grant money

The Boy Scouts of America are facing more fallout over their ban on openly gay leaders — this time from Walt Disney World, which has cut off funding through its employee volunteer program.

Robert Utsey, president of the Scouts' Central Florida Council, sent an email to scout leaders and parents this week saying the program's support of scouting, and the money that comes with it, were being discontinued. "The National BSA [boy Scouts of America] Council has reached out to WDW to try to resolve the situation, however, according to WDW, their views do not currently align with the BSA and they are choosing to discontinue this level of support," Utsey wrote.

The national organization voted last spring to allow openly gay youth scouts but decided to keep the ban on openly gay troop leaders. Several corporations have severed funding to the scouts as a result, including Lockheed Martin, Merck and UPS.

 

[squistion]

And now Disney:

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/disney-cuts-ties-boy-scouts-anti-gay?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Disney cuts ties with Boy Scouts over anti-gay policy

The Walt Disney Company has joined a growing list of corporate sponsors to cut ties with the Boy Scouts of America (BSA) over a controversial policy banning gay adult leaders.



In an email posted online Friday by Scouts for Equality, an alumni association dedicated to ending anti-gay discrimination in the BSA, the board president of the BSA’s Central Florida Council alerted Scout leaders and parents of the entertainment company’s decision.



“It has recently come to our attention that the grant program titled ‘Ears to You’ provided by Walt Disney World (WDW,) to their employees, will be discontinued for Scouting volunteers,” said Robert Utsey, Central Florida Council board president, in the email. “We recognize that many Scout Units have received financial support over the last several years from this grant opportunity and are sad to see it go. The National BSA Council has reached out to WDW to try to resolve the situation, however, according to WDW, their views do not currently align with the BSA and they are choosing to discontinue this level of support.”



Disney did not provide direct funding to the BSA, but rather rewarded employees’ volunteerism through financial contributions to the eligible charities of their choice. With Disney’s decision, the Boy Scouts will be removed from the roster of charities employees could choose from for donations through the entertainment company’s “Ears to You” program.



The Walt Disney Company – which bans discrimination against employees and applicants on the basis of sexual orientation, among other characteristics – did not immediately respond to a request for comment.



“We believe every child deserves the opportunity to be a part of the Scouting experience, and we are disappointed in this decision because it will impact our ability to serve kids,” said BSA spokesman Deron Smith in a statement. “America’s youth need Scouting, and by continuing to focus on the goals that unite us, we continue to accomplish incredible things for young people and the communities we serve.”

 

[Hilts]

Boy Scouts revoke the charter of a Seattle troop after they refused to fire a gay Scout leader.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/21/us/washington-boy-scouts-revoke-charter-gay-scoutmaster/

(CNN) -- The Boy Scouts of America has revoked the charter of a Seattle church that refused to fire its pack's gay scoutmaster, according to a letter written by the organization's general counsel and provided to CNN by the church.

Pack and Troop 98 is composed of about 15 boys, and according to attorney Steven McGowan's letter, they will have an opportunity to transfer to another troop.

"As you are aware the policy of the Boy Scouts of America does not allow open or avowed homosexuals to serve as volunteer adult leaders," read McGowan's letter to an attorney representing Rainier Beach United Methodist Church.

The church received its charter in November and hired Geoff McGrath, a 49-year-old Eagle Scout, to lead the troop. The Rev. Monica Corsaro said she knew McGrath was gay, and she wasn't trying to make any political statement by hiring him.

"We were not hiding," she said. "We are talking about real people that are being effected by a policy of discrimination ... by a policy that BSA teaches, so we are just calling it out."

ts defy leaders at gay pride parade

She further said all the boys in the troop were aware of McGrath's sexuality and that his hiring was in line with the church's philosophy of being "open to all people." Corsaro has even performed same-sex marriages at the church, she said.

McGrath could not be reached for comment because he is out of the country, celebrating an anniversary with his partner of 20 years, Corsaro said. But he provided a statement to Scouts for Equality, a group that aims to end the BSA ban on gay scout leaders.

"I'm stunned and disappointed to hear the news," he told Scouts for Equality. "Pastor Corsaro specifically sought out someone with my Scouting background to help get these units off the ground, and her church is now being told to violate their religious convictions. It's unconscionable and irreverent."

According to Scouts for Equality, BSA questioned McGrath's sexuality after an NBC News report last month.

"McGrath, abiding by the Scout's commitment to trustworthiness, acknowledged his sexual orientation to the BSA, which in turn, responded by revoking McGrath's status as Scoutmaster," the group said on its website.

Corsaro refused to remove McGrath from his post, resulting in last week's letter from McGowan stating, "As a result of this refusal to comply with the policies, guidelines, rules and regulations of the Boy Scouts of America, Rainier Beach United Methodist Church is hereby advised that it is no longer an authorized chartered organization and may no longer use the Scouting program or any of its registered marks or brands."

BSA spokesman Deron Smith added in a statement to CNN, "We are saddened by this development, but remain committed to providing all youth with the best possible Scouting experience where the Scouting program is the main focus."

In May, the group's 1,400-member national council voted to allow gay scouts into its troops, saying no youth would be denied membership "based on sexual orientation or preference alone." The group maintained its ban on gay scout leaders, however.

Because of that ban, Disney announced last month it would end a program allowing its employees to steer corporate donations to the Boy Scouts. Lockheed Martin, Caterpillar, Major League Soccer, Merck, Intel, UPS, Alcoa and AT&T have also ended partnerships with the Scouts because of its policy, according to Scouts for Equality and the Human Rights Campaign.

In a Monday statement to CNN, the BSA said it doesn't believe "the topic of sexual orientation has a role in Scouting and it is not discussed unless it is deliberately injected into Scouting."

The organization also said it "does not have an agenda on the matter of sexual orientation; we remain focused on working together to deliver the nation's foremost youth program of character development and values-based leadership training."

The United Methodist Church is the BSA's second-largest chartered organization, accounting for more than 10,700 packs and almost 350,000 members, according to the Boy Scouts website.

 

[matuski]

Hilarious to watch a group go down in flames before acknowledging its faults.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

KCitons> Still proud of your Scouts? Seems to me they're making a lot of kids suffer over their bigoted beliefs.

 

[KCitons]

KCitons> Still proud of your Scouts? Seems to me they're making a lot of kids suffer over their bigoted beliefs.

Am I proud of Scouts? Yes. Am I proud of the BSA? No.

Both of my sons only have their Eagle Scout project remaining. But at this point, I'm not sure the award holds the honor that it has in the past. (I don't tell them that) Depending on how this unfolds, putting Eagle Scout on your resume, may turn out to be a bad thing.

 

[butcher boy]

Hilarious to watch a group go down in flames before acknowledging its faults.

I find it sad. Why is it so hard for them to acknowledge that the world is quickly moving away from bigoted beliefs like this.

It's one of the things that really sours me away from organized religion. They preach love thy neighbor but practice the complete opposite in situations like this. And on top of all that, it gets passed on to their kids.

 

[butcher boy]

But kudos to that individual Seattle troop and church for sticking to what's right.

 

[glock]

The not so hilarious thing about all of this? Imagine the uproar from the Christian right- who represent a large percentage of Scouting Charter organizations- had Scouting run with the decision to allow both gay scouts and gay scoutmasters at the same time.

In spite of the views that many of the Scouting bashers here hold- those who seem to take real joy in putting down Scouting- there is still a large segment of the population that is not entirely comfortable with adult homosexual males camping out in the woods with their young boys. Fact.

I'm not among them, but am just saying. IMHO, Scouting's decision to first allow openly gay scouts...and down the road gay leaders (it is coming)- while not bold or ideal- is in keeping pace with the changing views of their membership, if not society as a whole.

 

[fatness]

In spite of the views that many of the Scouting bashers here hold- those who seem to take real joy in putting down Scouting- there is still a large segment of the population that is not entirely comfortable with adult homosexual males camping out in the woods with their young boys. Fact.

You can see some of those people represented in the comments section below one of Breitbart's articles on this. http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/04/21/Boy-Scouts-ban-Seattle-church-from-hosting-troop

Give that a read if you want to see bashing.

 

[glock]

In spite of the views that many of the Scouting bashers here hold- those who seem to take real joy in putting down Scouting- there is still a large segment of the population that is not entirely comfortable with adult homosexual males camping out in the woods with their young boys. Fact.

You can see some of those people represented in the comments section below one of Breitbart's articles on this. http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/04/21/Boy-Scouts-ban-Seattle-church-from-hosting-troop

Give that a read if you want to see bashing.

That's just sad.

 

[B-Deep]

hey man

the main mission of scouts ha always been to protect young boys from those trying to turn them gay!

so much so that things like protecting them from pedophiles had to take a back seat. Sure, they may have hidden child abusers for decades, but there has to be a line and a homosexual leader is that line!!!!

 

[B-Deep]

KCitons> Still proud of your Scouts? Seems to me they're making a lot of kids suffer over their bigoted beliefs.

Am I proud of Scouts? Yes. Am I proud of the BSA? No.

Both of my sons only have their Eagle Scout project remaining. But at this point, I'm not sure the award holds the honor that it has in the past. (I don't tell them that) Depending on how this unfolds, putting Eagle Scout on your resume, may turn out to be a bad thing.

that is really sad. The issues in the organization are hurting the kids, which is so counter to their stated mission

 

[Hilts]

The not so hilarious thing about all of this? Imagine the uproar from the Christian right- who represent a large percentage of Scouting Charter organizations- had Scouting run with the decision to allow both gay scouts and gay scoutmasters at the same time.

In spite of the views that many of the Scouting bashers here hold- those who seem to take real joy in putting down Scouting- there is still a large segment of the population that is not entirely comfortable with adult homosexual males camping out in the woods with their young boys. Fact.

I'm not among them, but am just saying. IMHO, Scouting's decision to first allow openly gay scouts...and down the road gay leaders (it is coming)- while not bold or ideal- is in keeping pace with the changing views of their membership, if not society as a whole.

I don't care if a large segment of the population is uncomfortable with the idea of homosexual men camping in the woods with young boys. You should do what is right. Not avoid doing things because they make people feel icky. Treating homosexuals as vile creatures who cannot be trusted around young boys is misguided at best. The Boy Scouts should be setting an example for young men everywhere to treat others with respect and equality. Instead they hide behind whatever they can come up with to defend their disgusting bigotry. As a former Boy Scout myself, I am ashamed I was a part of an organization that is so painfully behind the times. There are many Scouts who are worthy of respect. But the organization itself? They are a disgusting group pushing outdated, bigoted beliefs, and imo it flies in the face of what Scouts should truly be about.

 

[glock]

The not so hilarious thing about all of this? Imagine the uproar from the Christian right- who represent a large percentage of Scouting Charter organizations- had Scouting run with the decision to allow both gay scouts and gay scoutmasters at the same time.

In spite of the views that many of the Scouting bashers here hold- those who seem to take real joy in putting down Scouting- there is still a large segment of the population that is not entirely comfortable with adult homosexual males camping out in the woods with their young boys. Fact.

I'm not among them, but am just saying. IMHO, Scouting's decision to first allow openly gay scouts...and down the road gay leaders (it is coming)- while not bold or ideal- is in keeping pace with the changing views of their membership, if not society as a whole.

I don't care if a large segment of the population is uncomfortable with the idea of homosexual men camping in the woods with young boys. You should do what is right. Not avoid doing things because they make people feel icky. Treating homosexuals as vile creatures who cannot be trusted around young boys is misguided at best. The Boy Scouts should be setting an example for young men everywhere to treat others with respect and equality. Instead they hide behind whatever they can come up with to defend their disgusting bigotry. As a former Boy Scout myself, I am ashamed I was a part of an organization that is so painfully behind the times. There are many Scouts who are worthy of respect. But the organization itself? They are a disgusting group pushing outdated, bigoted beliefs, and imo it flies in the face of what Scouts should truly be about.

The "organization" is doing what their members want- but that happens to include a whole buncha people who don't hold the same views as you. Or me. They are resistant to change. Admitting gay scouts was phase one. Phase two will be to allow gay leadership. It's coming.

 

[JohnnyU]

There was an assistant scout master in my troop as a kid, who was also a Christian Church minister, that was later arrested and is currently a registered sexual offender. He liked boys and did some things that came out many years later when the boy was a man. I remember my mom asking me, "Did that man ever do anything to you on those scouting trips?". Thankfully I said no, he didn't. I just hope I don't have repressed memories and wake up one day from a dead sleep screaming !!!!

I know most gay leaders are NOT pedophiles, but I also see the other side of the spectrum where parents may have concerns for their children on these camp outs being in the hands (figuratively) of these gay scout leaders.

 

[joffer]

There was an assistant scout master in my troop as a kid, who was also a Christian Church minister, that was later arrested and is currently a registered sexual offender. He liked boys and did some things that came out many years later when the boy was a man. I remember my mom asking me, "Did that man ever do anything to you on those scouting trips?". Thankfully I said no, he didn't. I just hope I don't have repressed memories and wake up one day from a dead sleep screaming !!!!

I know most gay leaders are NOT pedophiles, but I also see the other side of the spectrum where parents may have concerns for their children on these camp outs being in the hands (figuratively) of these gay scout leaders.

should they have concerns about their children being in the hands of Christian Church ministers?

 

[JohnnyU]

There was an assistant scout master in my troop as a kid, who was also a Christian Church minister, that was later arrested and is currently a registered sexual offender. He liked boys and did some things that came out many years later when the boy was a man. I remember my mom asking me, "Did that man ever do anything to you on those scouting trips?". Thankfully I said no, he didn't. I just hope I don't have repressed memories and wake up one day from a dead sleep screaming !!!!

I know most gay leaders are NOT pedophiles, but I also see the other side of the spectrum where parents may have concerns for their children on these camp outs being in the hands (figuratively) of these gay scout leaders.

should they have concerns about their children being in the hands of Christian Church ministers?

I don't know, maybe.

 

[butcher boy]

There was an assistant scout master in my troop as a kid, who was also a Christian Church minister, that was later arrested and is currently a registered sexual offender. He liked boys and did some things that came out many years later when the boy was a man. I remember my mom asking me, "Did that man ever do anything to you on those scouting trips?". Thankfully I said no, he didn't. I just hope I don't have repressed memories and wake up one day from a dead sleep screaming !!!!

I know most gay leaders are NOT pedophiles, but I also see the other side of the spectrum where parents may have concerns for their children on these camp outs being in the hands (figuratively) of these gay scout leaders.

If a guy's purpose to being a scoutmaster is to fondle little boys, he isn't going to be out of the closet and have a spotlight put on him.

 

[glock]

There was an assistant scout master in my troop as a kid, who was also a Christian Church minister, that was later arrested and is currently a registered sexual offender. He liked boys and did some things that came out many years later when the boy was a man. I remember my mom asking me, "Did that man ever do anything to you on those scouting trips?". Thankfully I said no, he didn't. I just hope I don't have repressed memories and wake up one day from a dead sleep screaming !!!!

I know most gay leaders are NOT pedophiles, but I also see the other side of the spectrum where parents may have concerns for their children on these camp outs being in the hands (figuratively) of these gay scout leaders.

If a guy's purpose to being a scoutmaster is to fondle little boys, he isn't going to be out of the closet and have a spotlight put on him.

We've hashed this out somewhere before- maybe earlier in this thread, I dunno- but the leader specific training (Youth Protection Training) that has been put in place the last few years makes it really difficult for one on one contact to occur between a leader and a scout. This training has now been made a requirement for ANY parent looking to be involved with scouts in ANY capacity. Shuttlling scouts to events, assisting at fund raisers- whatever. This training makes every adult aware of what can and cannot be done as an adult in scouting and effectively puts every adult set of eyes in play ensuring that no adult is put In the position of being alone with a scout. It's not perfect, but what may have transpired years ago would be nearly impossible in today's scouting culture. This is paving the way for inclusion.