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That ought to make the BSA leaders feel really guilty when they look into the kids' faces. People get hurt all the time during ideological debates. It's unfortunate but if the BSA wants to push away funding, that's on them, not the people being pushed away.
Cuz 'Murica!! Send the homos back to France! If liberals want it, no freaking way!!!
Again, the people that make the decisions at the BSA are not seeing the kids faces. I would venture to guess 99.9% of scouts have no idea that LM stopped donating. I would also venture to guess that 100% of the decision makers understand why LM pulled it's funding.
If individual scout leaders don't know what their organization stands for why're they leaders?. If the BSA leadership knows it's hurting kids with their culture-war stance then they've made an obvious choice to put the kids second. If the kids in scouting don't know that scouts disallow gay leaders then why are scout leaders hiding it from them? No matter how you look at it the blame falls on BSA leaders.
How do you know they don't care? Where do you think those decision making leaders come from ?
Yes, we get it: you still can't make a good analogy. If the leadership of BSA wouldn't discriminate, them the little campers selling chocolate bars wouldn't suffer. The leadership is failing their troops. Leaders generally don't suffer unless the people they lead suffer.
Yep, you continue to punish the wrong people. The kids can't exact the change you are wanting.
Why aren't you upset with pro-BSA companies who don't double their donations to make up for the losses? They are just as much as fault as everyone else.
As surprising as it may sound, I don't agree with the BSA's stance on gay scout leaders. They allow women to be leaders, the concern of having a sexual predator as a leader, is a non starter. So, anyone that comes out and says that they are upping their donation dollars because they believe that homosexuals should be kept out of the BSA, is just as wrong as well.
The scouts are not collateral damage. They are the scouts. They are the BSA. And no, I am not ok with it. If I was ok with it, I wouldn't talk badly about the people choosing to put themselves above the children they lead.
Do you discuss BSA's anti-gay-leader policy with your kids? Or hide it from them? Do you tell them why you think it's a good policy? Or do you tell them why it's a bad policy but it's OK to ignore it, lose good leaders, be bigoted, so that funds keep coming in?
The bolded is exactly my point. Your problem is with the decision makers at BSA, not the scouts.
We have discussed it with our kids. No reason to hide it from them. I didn't tell them anything but the truth and the facts. We let them ask questions and form their own opinions.
The decision makers and the scouts are both the BSA. The kids are the BSA, just as the leaders are. Ground level scouts that are being hurt from this ought to be telling their leaders to get with the times and stop discriminating. They're the ones putting their ideology over the welfare of the kids. Additionally, your little victim mode "destroy the BSA" cries are really silly. No one has expressed a desire to destroy them at all. It's a protest against a group that discriminates, not an effort to end the BSA.KCitons said:
Why don't you just come out and state openly your fear of what could happen in such an event, rather than leave it to implication?tdoss said:
Do you think that's worse than having young boys going on camping trips with closeted gay scout leaders?tdoss said:
You must live with your head in the clouds. When is the last time adults listened to what kids wanted? If that was the case, our country's budget deficit should be gone, and global warming should no longer be an issue.
If your own BSA leadership won't listen to their own kids, why would you hold other adults beholden to that concept? And do those kids not have patents ( adults) that can handle the adult portion of adult to adult talks with the BSA leadership?
Destroy is a pretty strong word. The people who approve of these boycotts have a single goal in mind: to get the Boy Scouts of America to treat gay people with equality like everyone else. Once the BSA agrees to do this, the boycotts will stop.
Did you tell your kids that you think their "plight" is terrible, and that on a message board you're comparing them to crack babies being victimized?
???? Would it make a difference?
My whole family knows. I don't pay money to support bigotry.
Done
So you don't discuss it with your kids. They just know each and every nuance of your tactics. Got it.
@ crack babies. Great work KCitons.
I don't think you understand what bigot means.
From you that means a lot.
Based on your statement it sounded like they just know. Do you tell them what to think, or do you allow your kids to make up their own minds? What if your kid felt it was OK for the BSA to ban gay leaders?
That's great. I don't care if you decide to donate your money to other places. Everyone needs help.
No, I don't think you understand what it means to allow free thought.
Wait, are you seriously trying to draw a parallel between exercising your capitalist freedom to give your money to support groups that don't openly discriminate and killing children? I think I understated the victim hood complex you're suffering. Now you're downright delusional.
Actually I do understand that issue, however it has absolutely nothing to do with you misusing the word bigot.From you that means a lot.Based on your statement it sounded like they just know. Do you tell them what to think, or do you allow your kids to make up their own minds? What if your kid felt it was OK for the BSA to ban gay leaders? What if they wanted to become a Scout? Would you let them?
That's great. I don't care if you decide to donate your money to other places. Everyone needs help. Ever wonder if companies like LM are gaining something by their decision?
No, I don't think you understand what it means to allow free thought. What do you tell your kids about the BSA issue?
If that's the analogy that gets my point across, then yes. Boycotting a Boy Scout Christmas tree sale is pretty delusional as well. But why stop there. You should grab a few of those kids by the neckerchief and rough them up a little, just to get your point across.
Not really. LM presumably has gay employees. It's not hard to figure out what they're gaining from the decision. They're contributing to organizations that better reflect their company values.
In the industry I work in many companies have been in the leading edge of gay rights for their employees as far as corporations go. They do this for two main reasons. 1)They want to recruit the best possible talent and it has given them an edge for potential gay employees. 2) They want to take care of their existing employees base.
Sorry, I should have asked that differently.
No, but you'll be able to sleep at night.
I don't have kids. If I did and one wanted to, I'd probably be raising hell towards the leaders to actually think of the children instead of their antiquated, discriminatory practices instead of trying to compare him to a crack baby or war casualty. Have I asked you if you understand the word bigot? Or if, in your horrible crack baby analogy, you realized that you're calling your wife a crackhead?
Perhaps you're unfamiliar with the efforts being made to change those practices. Your analogy once again falls flat since no one is telling anyone to leave the BSA, as you insinuate. In fact, the move to provide equal rights in the US is a macrocosm of the fight for the BSA to also end discrimination. People apply political , financial and societal pressure to make a change toward equality. Same thing with the BSA. You really, really suck at analogies.
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