Lockheed Martin cuts $ to BSA for anti-gay/atheist rules. (1 Viewer)

[TPW]

Exactly. Iron Shiek, I generally like your posting, but you are 100% off on it not being bigotry.

Fair enough. Again, I'm of the opinion that everyone should allowed to be a scout. And I believe that day is coming sooner rather than later.

We kind of got off on a tangent about the definition of bigoted, but my point remains that pulling funding hurts the children of the scouts more than it hurts the BSA. Progress is being made. Things have changed for the better in the past year. In my view, it would be much better for LM to come out and say, "If the BSA does not continue to make strides to change their ways, we will be forced to pull our funding for them." Give a time frame. A short time frame. If LM really wants to see BSA change (and I assume they like what they do considering they've been supporting them up until now), why not try and help move things along?

I sort of agree with you here except I'm not as optimistic about them changing anytime soon without fiscal pressure like this. It's their bible that tells them how to perceive gays and its hard to change people's opinions at that level. It'll takes a few generations to weed it out.

The founder of my faith died for it as have untold millions more throughout history. Are you willing to do the same for your beliefs?

Progressives who supported Obama have spent the past five years slandering people like me who disagree with them as stupid, racist, sexist, etc. They have spent this time encouraging Democrats to take money out of our pockets to give to special interest groups so they could feel good about themselves. They have happily insulted and belittled every day and in every way the values and ideals we hold dear. In short, Progressives have been pouring acid into the machinery of American society as it existed, machinery that didn't work perfectly to begin with. As a result, the social design margin of the United States has been substantially eroded.

And yet we're still here. Where this will go I do not know, but if Progressives think Christians are going to stand idly by as their faith, families, and fortunes are ripped apart by a bunch of neo-fascists, they are most dangerously mistaken.

I think this is too big to fit in my sig.

All mouth and no spine. That's what I thought.

 

[Fennis]

Exactly. Iron Shiek, I generally like your posting, but you are 100% off on it not being bigotry.

Fair enough. Again, I'm of the opinion that everyone should allowed to be a scout. And I believe that day is coming sooner rather than later.

We kind of got off on a tangent about the definition of bigoted, but my point remains that pulling funding hurts the children of the scouts more than it hurts the BSA. Progress is being made. Things have changed for the better in the past year. In my view, it would be much better for LM to come out and say, "If the BSA does not continue to make strides to change their ways, we will be forced to pull our funding for them." Give a time frame. A short time frame. If LM really wants to see BSA change (and I assume they like what they do considering they've been supporting them up until now), why not try and help move things along?

I sort of agree with you here except I'm not as optimistic about them changing anytime soon without fiscal pressure like this. It's their bible that tells them how to perceive gays and its hard to change people's opinions at that level. It'll takes a few generations to weed it out.

The founder of my faith died for it as have untold millions more throughout history. Are you willing to do the same for your beliefs?

Progressives who supported Obama have spent the past five years slandering people like me who disagree with them as stupid, racist, sexist, etc. They have spent this time encouraging Democrats to take money out of our pockets to give to special interest groups so they could feel good about themselves. They have happily insulted and belittled every day and in every way the values and ideals we hold dear. In short, Progressives have been pouring acid into the machinery of American society as it existed, machinery that didn't work perfectly to begin with. As a result, the social design margin of the United States has been substantially eroded.

And yet we're still here. Where this will go I do not know, but if Progressives think Christians are going to stand idly by as their faith, families, and fortunes are ripped apart by a bunch of neo-fascists, they are most dangerously mistaken.

what are you going do about it?

bump

 

[mad sweeney]

They allow gay kids in. Not gay leaders. Are you saying they are bigoted towards gay leaders? Because it's hard to be bigoted towards a group you allow in.

I believe a lot of you are throwing around the word to give your argument more weight. And it's actually doing the opposite.

Montgomery's bus lines used to allow black people to ride. They just had to go to the back.

Were black kids allowed to ride wherever they wanted? That bus line was bigoted. No one is making gay scouts sit at the back of the meetings.

No, but they're letting them know that no matter how much they love the Scouts, that they are not good enough to be Leaders simply because if who they are.

 

[TheIronSheik]

Then tell BSA to drop their bigoted restrictions. Don't blame the sponsors being driven away, blame the drivers who are pushing away these kids' funding.

OK. But I don't think I have much sway with the BSA.

 

[Scoresman]

Then tell BSA to drop their bigoted restrictions. Don't blame the sponsors being driven away, blame the drivers who are pushing away these kids' funding.

OK. But I don't think I have much sway with the BSA.

The point is don't make LM the villain for pulling funding, when the blame should be put on the leaders of BSA for their policies causing it.

 

[mad sweeney]

I don't think that pissing on the values that TPW holds dear is really a progressive goal. Just kind of a nice fringe benefit.

Plus the whole "founder of my faith died for it" is disingenuous since the oh reason he was sent to Earth was specifically to die

 

[mad sweeney]

Then tell BSA to drop their bigoted restrictions. Don't blame the sponsors being driven away, blame the drivers who are pushing away these kids' funding.

OK. But I don't think I have much sway with the BSA.

LM does.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

I don't think that pissing on the values that TPW holds dear is really a progressive goal. Just kind of a nice fringe benefit.

Plus the whole "founder of my faith died for it" is disingenuous since the oh reason he was sent to Earth was specifically to die

More relevantly, I don't think that willingness to die for a belief is a very good indicator of the moral superiority of that belief.

For instance, I don't give the 9/11 hijackers extra credit for their willingness to die for their beliefs. Others may feel differently, I suppose.

 

[KCitons]

Can a gay father be a scout leader?

Probably not. But bigoted means something completely different.

And THIS is where work still needs to be done. Never mind that a whole boatload of the population still thinks that gay men are are pedophiles. Incorrectly so, but one battle at a time.

Agreed. I say this all of the time to people. The world doesn't change in one complete shift. Instead of trying to win the war all at once, win each battle and that will lead to winning the war. It's much easier to chip away than to knock the whole thing down in one swing. And plenty of other odd references.

Point is, progress is being made. I think they should allow everyone. And I think that day is coming. But punishing kids to achieve that fight is counterproductive.

One of the reason progress is being made is because organizations like Lockheed Martin stop donating money to BSA.

So ultimately, money is what decides right and wrong in our society?

Stop the ride, I want to get off.

Yes, money is the driver of most changes.

That's different from what I said. Change can be good or bad.

Does money decide what is right or wrong?

 

[Fennis]

Can a gay father be a scout leader?

Probably not. But bigoted means something completely different.

And THIS is where work still needs to be done. Never mind that a whole boatload of the population still thinks that gay men are are pedophiles. Incorrectly so, but one battle at a time.

Agreed. I say this all of the time to people. The world doesn't change in one complete shift. Instead of trying to win the war all at once, win each battle and that will lead to winning the war. It's much easier to chip away than to knock the whole thing down in one swing. And plenty of other odd references.

Point is, progress is being made. I think they should allow everyone. And I think that day is coming. But punishing kids to achieve that fight is counterproductive.

One of the reason progress is being made is because organizations like Lockheed Martin stop donating money to BSA.

So ultimately, money is what decides right and wrong in our society?

Stop the ride, I want to get off.

Yes, money is the driver of most changes.

That's different from what I said. Change can be good or bad.

Does money decide what is right or wrong?

sometimes

 

[squistion]

The founder of my faith died for it as have untold millions more throughout history. Are you willing to do the same for your beliefs?

Progressives who supported Obama have spent the past five years slandering people like me who disagree with them as stupid, racist, sexist, etc. They have spent this time encouraging Democrats to take money out of our pockets to give to special interest groups so they could feel good about themselves. They have happily insulted and belittled every day and in every way the values and ideals we hold dear. In short, Progressives have been pouring acid into the machinery of American society as it existed, machinery that didn't work perfectly to begin with. As a result, the social design margin of the United States has been substantially eroded.

And yet we're still here. Where this will go I do not know, but if Progressives think Christians are going to stand idly by as their faith, families, and fortunes are ripped apart by a bunch of neo-fascists, they are most dangerously mistaken.

Why? If this country is so horrible due to progressives why don't you move to another one that is better according to your Christian values?

Whenever progressives have complained about how this country is run going back to Vietnam (and most recently under the Bush administration) we are always told "America, love it or leave it!" When the shoe is on the other foot (and those on the right are the ones unhappy) leaving the good old USA for greener pastures is never considered as an option. Why is that?

 

[Scoresman]

Can a gay father be a scout leader?

Probably not. But bigoted means something completely different.

And THIS is where work still needs to be done. Never mind that a whole boatload of the population still thinks that gay men are are pedophiles. Incorrectly so, but one battle at a time.

Agreed. I say this all of the time to people. The world doesn't change in one complete shift. Instead of trying to win the war all at once, win each battle and that will lead to winning the war. It's much easier to chip away than to knock the whole thing down in one swing. And plenty of other odd references.

Point is, progress is being made. I think they should allow everyone. And I think that day is coming. But punishing kids to achieve that fight is counterproductive.

One of the reason progress is being made is because organizations like Lockheed Martin stop donating money to BSA.

So ultimately, money is what decides right and wrong in our society?

Stop the ride, I want to get off.

Yes, money is the driver of most changes.

That's different from what I said. Change can be good or bad.

Does money decide what is right or wrong?

No, but in this case, the right side is the one on that's against bigotry.

 

[TheIronSheik]

Then tell BSA to drop their bigoted restrictions. Don't blame the sponsors being driven away, blame the drivers who are pushing away these kids' funding.

OK. But I don't think I have much sway with the BSA.

The point is don't make LM the villain for pulling funding, when the blame should be put on the leaders of BSA for their policies causing it.

I think both sides need to do better. I'm not calling LM a villain at all.

 

[TheIronSheik]

Then tell BSA to drop their bigoted restrictions. Don't blame the sponsors being driven away, blame the drivers who are pushing away these kids' funding.

OK. But I don't think I have much sway with the BSA.

LM does.

OK. I'll talk to them too.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

I probably shouldn't have brought up "progressives." The fact the Lockheed Martin is doing this is further evidence that equal dignity for gays and lesbians and at least some respect for freedom of conscience are no longer strictly "progressive" ideals. Most Republicans under 50 or so broadly support gay rights, now.

The BSA (which is in many ways an admirable organization and which has admirably attempted to engage a dialogue on this issue, I concede) is not just out of step with "progressives." It's out of step with Americans. And when that happens, funding has a way of drying up.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

The founder of my faith says that the BSA are a bunch of dickmittens.

 

[TheIronSheik]

The founder of my faith says that the BSA are a bunch of dickmittens.

Bigot

 

[Fennis]

The founder of my faith says that the BSA are a bunch of dickmittens.

Robert A. Cinader said that?

SLB said that?

Couldn't pick one.

 

[squistion]

The founder of my faith says that the BSA are a bunch of dickmittens.

Yeah, but unless he is willing to give his life for that belief, it may not count.

 

[timschochet]

The Lockheed decision, the Duck Dynasty controversy, the recent SC decision on gay marriage...

Are you guys getting the feeling that this issue is dying out? Despite the angry rants of people like TPW, we've reached a point in our society where it's no longer OK to be intolerant of homosexuals. This stuff represents the last dying gasps. I wonder if, ten years from now, any of this will be a topic for discussion, except in terms of a history lesson.

 

[TheIronSheik]

Anyone else getting sick of the homosexuality?

 

[shader]

The Lockheed decision, the Duck Dynasty controversy, the recent SC decision on gay marriage...

Are you guys getting the feeling that this issue is dying out? Despite the angry rants of people like TPW, we've reached a point in our society where it's no longer OK to be intolerant of homosexuals. This stuff represents the last dying gasps. I wonder if, ten years from now, any of this will be a topic for discussion, except in terms of a history lesson.

Do you think it's how "society" feels or do you think this is a media-driven issue?

I work at a very modern company, around a bunch of really smart people that make good money and seem well-adjusted. I haven't met a single person at work that thinks poorly of Phil Robertson or the Duck Dynasty guys. Even if they hate the Duck Dynasty guys and make fun of them, virtually everyone I've talked to thinks that he has the right to believe that homosexuality is a sin, and thinks it's ridiculous for A&E to suspend him.

 

[KCitons]

The Lockheed decision, the Duck Dynasty controversy, the recent SC decision on gay marriage...

Are you guys getting the feeling that this issue is dying out? Despite the angry rants of people like TPW, we've reached a point in our society where it's no longer OK to be intolerant of homosexuals. This stuff represents the last dying gasps. I wonder if, ten years from now, any of this will be a topic for discussion, except in terms of a history lesson.

 

[Scoresman]

The Lockheed decision, the Duck Dynasty controversy, the recent SC decision on gay marriage...

Are you guys getting the feeling that this issue is dying out? Despite the angry rants of people like TPW, we've reached a point in our society where it's no longer OK to be intolerant of homosexuals. This stuff represents the last dying gasps. I wonder if, ten years from now, any of this will be a topic for discussion, except in terms of a history lesson.

Do you think it's how "society" feels or do you think this is a media-driven issue?

I work at a very modern company, around a bunch of really smart people that make good money and seem well-adjusted. I haven't met a single person at work that thinks poorly of Phil Robertson or the Duck Dynasty guys. Even if they hate the Duck Dynasty guys and make fun of them, virtually everyone I've talked to thinks that he has the right to believe that homosexuality is a sin, and thinks it's ridiculous for A&E to suspend him.

Even the pope is causing a stir by being more accepting of gays. Not just the media. It is very much a shift in society.

 

[fatness]

Good for them. I stopped buying Christmas trees from BSA

As a parent of two kids in the Boy Scouts, I would hope people don't punish the kids for the decisions of the adults.

I don't agree with what the BSA is doing, but I don't see punishing the kids as an effective way to exact change.

That's the BSA leaders' problem, not mine. Stop doing things that lose money for the kids in BSA.

 

[fatness]

First off, they can do whatever they want with their money. That's their choice. But almost 2 million children belong to BSA and they are the ones that will be affected by this decision. I think they're picking the wrong battlefront on this decision.

It makes you wonder whose interests the BSA leaders have at heart, doesn't it?

 

[fatness]

They allow gay kids in. Not gay leaders. Are you saying they are bigoted towards gay leaders?

Yes. You just clearly stated that they are.

 

[fatness]

And yet we're still here. Where this will go I do not know, but if Progressives think Christians are going to stand idly by as their faith, families, and fortunes are ripped apart by a bunch of neo-fascists, they are most dangerously mistaken.

what are you going do about it?

I think TPW's an advocate of the shoot-then-forgive branch of Christianity.

 

[Mr. Retukes]

Exactly. Iron Shiek, I generally like your posting, but you are 100% off on it not being bigotry.

Fair enough. Again, I'm of the opinion that everyone should allowed to be a scout. And I believe that day is coming sooner rather than later.

We kind of got off on a tangent about the definition of bigoted, but my point remains that pulling funding hurts the children of the scouts more than it hurts the BSA. Progress is being made. Things have changed for the better in the past year. In my view, it would be much better for LM to come out and say, "If the BSA does not continue to make strides to change their ways, we will be forced to pull our funding for them." Give a time frame. A short time frame. If LM really wants to see BSA change (and I assume they like what they do considering they've been supporting them up until now), why not try and help move things along?

I sort of agree with you here except I'm not as optimistic about them changing anytime soon without fiscal pressure like this. It's their bible that tells them how to perceive gays and its hard to change people's opinions at that level. It'll takes a few generations to weed it out.

The founder of my faith died for it as have untold millions more throughout history. Are you willing to do the same for your beliefs?

Progressives who supported Obama have spent the past five years slandering people like me who disagree with them as stupid, racist, sexist, etc. They have spent this time encouraging Democrats to take money out of our pockets to give to special interest groups so they could feel good about themselves. They have happily insulted and belittled every day and in every way the values and ideals we hold dear. In short, Progressives have been pouring acid into the machinery of American society as it existed, machinery that didn't work perfectly to begin with. As a result, the social design margin of the United States has been substantially eroded.

And yet we're still here. Where this will go I do not know, but if Progressives think Christians are going to stand idly by as their faith, families, and fortunes are ripped apart by a bunch of neo-fascists, they are most dangerously mistaken.

what are you going do about it?

bump

I'm guessing "turn the other cheek" isn't on the short list.

 

[KCitons]

Good for them. I stopped buying Christmas trees from BSA

As a parent of two kids in the Boy Scouts, I would hope people don't punish the kids for the decisions of the adults.

I don't agree with what the BSA is doing, but I don't see punishing the kids as an effective way to exact change.

That's the BSA leaders' problem, not mine. Stop doing things that lose money for the kids in BSA.

Your choice to not buy a Christmas tree, hurts the individual scout who is just trying to raise money local activities. Even if the kid wanted to allow gay leaders, he wouldn't be able to make that decision. You're punishing kids for something they have zero control over.

By your logic, we should stop helping crack babies. Maybe the mother will stop using crack.

 

[KCitons]

The founder of my faith died for it as have untold millions more throughout history. Are you willing to do the same for your beliefs?

And yet we're still here. Where this will go I do not know, but if Progressives think Christians are going to stand idly by as their faith, families, and fortunes are ripped apart by a bunch of neo-fascists, they are most dangerously mistaken.

Don't you guys need atheist/sinners to do their part to invoke the rapture?

 

[fatness]

Good for them. I stopped buying Christmas trees from BSA

As a parent of two kids in the Boy Scouts, I would hope people don't punish the kids for the decisions of the adults.

I don't agree with what the BSA is doing, but I don't see punishing the kids as an effective way to exact change.

That's the BSA leaders' problem, not mine. Stop doing things that lose money for the kids in BSA.

Your choice to not buy a Christmas tree, hurts the individual scout who is just trying to raise money local activities.

No, the decisions by the leadership of BSA hurt the individual scouts. They're losing money as a result of it. I guess those kids have to take a back seat to the more important anti-gay stance of BSA, huh?

 

[KCitons]

Good for them. I stopped buying Christmas trees from BSA

As a parent of two kids in the Boy Scouts, I would hope people don't punish the kids for the decisions of the adults.

I don't agree with what the BSA is doing, but I don't see punishing the kids as an effective way to exact change.

That's the BSA leaders' problem, not mine. Stop doing things that lose money for the kids in BSA.

Your choice to not buy a Christmas tree, hurts the individual scout who is just trying to raise money local activities.

No, the decisions by the leadership of BSA hurt the individual scouts. They're losing money as a result of it. I guess those kids have to take a back seat to the more important anti-gay stance of BSA, huh?

So should crack babies. What happened to our war on drugs?

For those asking who boos the Boy Scouts at events. Answer: Fatness

 

[jonessed]

The Lockheed decision, the Duck Dynasty controversy, the recent SC decision on gay marriage...

Are you guys getting the feeling that this issue is dying out? Despite the angry rants of people like TPW, we've reached a point in our society where it's no longer OK to be intolerant of homosexuals. This stuff represents the last dying gasps. I wonder if, ten years from now, any of this will be a topic for discussion, except in terms of a history lesson.

A&E is going to get hammered financially with the Duck Dynasty thing. Doesn't that demonstrate the exact opposite of the point you are trying to make?

 

[mad sweeney]

Good for them. I stopped buying Christmas trees from BSA

As a parent of two kids in the Boy Scouts, I would hope people don't punish the kids for the decisions of the adults. I don't agree with what the BSA is doing, but I don't see punishing the kids as an effective way to exact change.

That's the BSA leaders' problem, not mine. Stop doing things that lose money for the kids in BSA.

Your choice to not buy a Christmas tree, hurts the individual scout who is just trying to raise money local activities. Even if the kid wanted to allow gay leaders, he wouldn't be able to make that decision. You're punishing kids for something they have zero control over. By your logic, we should stop helping crack babies. Maybe the mother will stop using crack.

You're digging down in the mx level of bad analogies

 

[mad sweeney]

The Lockheed decision, the Duck Dynasty controversy, the recent SC decision on gay marriage...

Are you guys getting the feeling that this issue is dying out? Despite the angry rants of people like TPW, we've reached a point in our society where it's no longer OK to be intolerant of homosexuals. This stuff represents the last dying gasps. I wonder if, ten years from now, any of this will be a topic for discussion, except in terms of a history lesson.

A&E is going to get hammered financially with the Duck Dynasty thing. Doesn't that demonstrate the exact opposite of the point you are trying to make?

A&E isn't going to get hammered by this. For every outraged right winger there'll be a supportive lefty. They'll get another show to take its place if it goes away. Folks on the side of the hate and intolerance go away, like Rush and that other guy with the chalkboard and the idiot hockey mom. And as a plus we get to watch another round of "I Don't Actually Know The Constitution" from the so called Constitutional Purists who are reviving the same idiot 1st Amendment arguments that they lost on when good OL' Hank Jr tried to rally the troops and convince them that somehow a non government group is somehow passing in Congress a law to restrict their speech. Gonna be fun!

 

[Steve Tasker]

The Lockheed decision, the Duck Dynasty controversy, the recent SC decision on gay marriage...

Are you guys getting the feeling that this issue is dying out? Despite the angry rants of people like TPW, we've reached a point in our society where it's no longer OK to be intolerant of homosexuals. This stuff represents the last dying gasps. I wonder if, ten years from now, any of this will be a topic for discussion, except in terms of a history lesson.

A&E is going to get hammered financially with the Duck Dynasty thing. Doesn't that demonstrate the exact opposite of the point you are trying to make?

I don't think so. If anything, I think it enhances Tim's point. A&E is willing to lose millions of dollars on Duck Dynasty in order to be on the "right side of history", so to speak. These are honestly the last gasps of anti-homosexuality. Tim's right.

 

[jonessed]

The Lockheed decision, the Duck Dynasty controversy, the recent SC decision on gay marriage...

Are you guys getting the feeling that this issue is dying out? Despite the angry rants of people like TPW, we've reached a point in our society where it's no longer OK to be intolerant of homosexuals. This stuff represents the last dying gasps. I wonder if, ten years from now, any of this will be a topic for discussion, except in terms of a history lesson.

A&E is going to get hammered financially with the Duck Dynasty thing. Doesn't that demonstrate the exact opposite of the point you are trying to make?

I don't think so. If anything, I think it enhances Tim's point. A&E is willing to lose millions of dollars on Duck Dynasty in order to be on the "right side of history", so to speak. These are honestly the last gasps of anti-homosexuality. Tim's right.

If they lose tens of millions it's because their response wasn't supported by their viewers.I fully expect A&E to cave before filming the next season . They can't afford to lose the show over something like this.

 

[Steve Tasker]

The Lockheed decision, the Duck Dynasty controversy, the recent SC decision on gay marriage...

Are you guys getting the feeling that this issue is dying out? Despite the angry rants of people like TPW, we've reached a point in our society where it's no longer OK to be intolerant of homosexuals. This stuff represents the last dying gasps. I wonder if, ten years from now, any of this will be a topic for discussion, except in terms of a history lesson.

A&E is going to get hammered financially with the Duck Dynasty thing. Doesn't that demonstrate the exact opposite of the point you are trying to make?

I don't think so. If anything, I think it enhances Tim's point. A&E is willing to lose millions of dollars on Duck Dynasty in order to be on the "right side of history", so to speak. These are honestly the last gasps of anti-homosexuality. Tim's right.

If they lose tens of millions it's because their response wasn't supported by their viewers.

This show is something like 15% of the viewership for the entire channel.

I think you're oversimplifying. Viewers aren't loyal to A&E. They're loyal to Duck Dynasty. By replacing Duck Dynasty with some ####ty show about pageant moms, they're sure to lose millions of dollars and tons of percentage points of viewership. But the reason for lack of viewership and loss of money won't be due to "their response [not being] supported by their viewers", it will be because they have absolute crap to replace Duck Dynasty.

I think this validates Tim's point. A&E isn't stupid. They're making a calculated decision to forego millions of dollars in the short-term. Supporting any instance of anti-homosexuality is so reviled that they are willing to do so. That says a lot to me, a lot about where we are going as a country. And I think it's great.

 

[mad sweeney]

The Lockheed decision, the Duck Dynasty controversy, the recent SC decision on gay marriage...

Are you guys getting the feeling that this issue is dying out? Despite the angry rants of people like TPW, we've reached a point in our society where it's no longer OK to be intolerant of homosexuals. This stuff represents the last dying gasps. I wonder if, ten years from now, any of this will be a topic for discussion, except in terms of a history lesson.

A&E is going to get hammered financially with the Duck Dynasty thing. Doesn't that demonstrate the exact opposite of the point you are trying to make?

I don't think so. If anything, I think it enhances Tim's point. A&E is willing to lose millions of dollars on Duck Dynasty in order to be on the "right side of history", so to speak. These are honestly the last gasps of anti-homosexuality. Tim's right.

If they lose tens of millions it's because their response wasn't supported by their viewers.

This show is something like 15% of the viewership for the entire channel.

They'll just fill that fifteen percent with some other "reality" show crapfest about some fringe group of characters. They've probably got a few in the hopper ready to spit out and a dozen more in the works. If they felt strong enough to risk it, I'm quite sure they have a plan. Percentage wise, the clan will lose a lot more than the network if it goes away, but the real losers will be the town and county in which it's filmed. A lot of money goes into the economy from laundromats to state permits and everything in between.

 

[jonessed]

The Lockheed decision, the Duck Dynasty controversy, the recent SC decision on gay marriage...

Are you guys getting the feeling that this issue is dying out? Despite the angry rants of people like TPW, we've reached a point in our society where it's no longer OK to be intolerant of homosexuals. This stuff represents the last dying gasps. I wonder if, ten years from now, any of this will be a topic for discussion, except in terms of a history lesson.

A&E is going to get hammered financially with the Duck Dynasty thing. Doesn't that demonstrate the exact opposite of the point you are trying to make?

I don't think so. If anything, I think it enhances Tim's point. A&E is willing to lose millions of dollars on Duck Dynasty in order to be on the "right side of history", so to speak. These are honestly the last gasps of anti-homosexuality. Tim's right.

If they lose tens of millions it's because their response wasn't supported by their viewers.This show is something like 15% of the viewership for the entire channel.

I think you're oversimplifying. Viewers aren't loyal to A&E. They're loyal to Duck Dynasty. By replacing Duck Dynasty with some ####ty show about pageant moms, they're sure to lose millions of dollars and tons of percentage points of viewership. But the reason for lack of viewership and loss of money won't be due to "their response [not being] supported by their viewers", it will be because they have absolute crap to replace Duck Dynasty.I think this validates Tim's point. A&E isn't stupid. They're making a calculated decision to forego millions of dollars in the short-term. Supporting any instance of anti-homosexuality is so reviled that they are willing to do so. That says a lot to me, a lot about where we are going as a country. And I think it's great.

You aren't making any sense to me, but I'm not going to argue the financials any further. You and Sweeney are entitled to your opinions.If they cave and let him back on to save the show what does that mean? That the country is going backwards?

 

[Steve Tasker]

So if they cave and let him back on to save the show what does that mean ?

It would mean that they're greedy and that money is more important to them than being on the right side of history. It's a shame, but it's something that people should keep in mind in the future. It'd be a calculated decision; companies make risky decisions every day.

The fact that this is even a discussion is laughable to me. Anyone who espouses those wacky anti-homosexual beliefs should be publicly reviled. That day is coming, but it can't come soon enough. I'm admittedly biased in this case; the hardcore religious crowd has been really ticking me off of late.

 

[jonessed]

So if they cave and let him back on to save the show what does that mean ?

It would mean that they're greedy and that money is more important to them than being on the right side of history. It's a shame, but it's something that people should keep in mind in the future. It'd be a calculated decision; companies make risky decisions every day.The fact that this is even a discussion is laughable to me. Anyone who espouses those wacky anti-homosexual beliefs should be publicly reviled. That day is coming, but it can't come soon enough. I'm admittedly biased in this case; the hardcore religious crowd has been really ticking me off of late.

You don't say.

 

[Steve Tasker]

So if they cave and let him back on to save the show what does that mean ?

It would mean that they're greedy and that money is more important to them than being on the right side of history. It's a shame, but it's something that people should keep in mind in the future. It'd be a calculated decision; companies make risky decisions every day.The fact that this is even a discussion is laughable to me. Anyone who espouses those wacky anti-homosexual beliefs should be publicly reviled. That day is coming, but it can't come soon enough. I'm admittedly biased in this case; the hardcore religious crowd has been really ticking me off of late.

You don't say.

Not afraid to admit it. Sorry.

 

[timschochet]

Actually I do think A & E will let Robertson back on the air and the show will continue. That show makes a LOT of money.

But I don't think that invalidates my argument however. My point was not how A&E responds to this incident, or how the BSA chooses to respond to Lockheed. My point is that these sorts of stories are getting rarer, with the majority of people seemingly on the side opposing whoever is being anti-gay. I see these stories as evidence that we're not in the middle of the struggle for gay rights; we're at the end of it.

 

[Steve Tasker]

Actually I do think A & E will let Robertson back on the air and the show will continue. That show makes a LOT of money.

But I don't think that invalidates my argument however. My point was not how A&E responds to this incident, or how the BSA chooses to respond to Lockheed. My point is that these sorts of stories are getting rarer, with the majority of people seemingly on the side opposing whoever is being anti-gay. I see these stories as evidence that we're not in the middle of the struggle for gay rights; we're at the end of it.

I don't know if I have ever agreed with you as much as I do on this post.

 

[Mr. Retukes]

If they lose tens of millions it's because their response wasn't supported by their viewers.I fully expect A&E to cave before filming the next season . They can't afford to lose the show over something like this.

 

[KCitons]

Good for them. I stopped buying Christmas trees from BSA

As a parent of two kids in the Boy Scouts, I would hope people don't punish the kids for the decisions of the adults. I don't agree with what the BSA is doing, but I don't see punishing the kids as an effective way to exact change.

That's the BSA leaders' problem, not mine. Stop doing things that lose money for the kids in BSA.

Your choice to not buy a Christmas tree, hurts the individual scout who is just trying to raise money local activities. Even if the kid wanted to allow gay leaders, he wouldn't be able to make that decision. You're punishing kids for something they have zero control over. By your logic, we should stop helping crack babies. Maybe the mother will stop using crack.

You're digging down in the mx level of bad analogies

I think it's necessary to get my point across. Make sure the message you are sending is getting to the people that can invoke change.

On the grand scale, BSA may find another company to take LM's place. If not, then the people that run it, will have to decide how bad hurts them. But, a local scout may not be able to make up money lost on local fundraising.. They won't know, or understand, why people suddenly stopped supporting them.

 

[Tchula]

Thumbs up to the Boy Scouts for sticking to their guns

 

[timschochet]

Thumbs up to the Boy Scouts for sticking to their guns

Please explain why you believe that gays should not be allowed to be scout leaders.