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Morris was not the BEST pitcher of the 80s . . . he won the MOST GAMES of anyone in the 80s. IMO, all that means is other pitchers' careers started or ended in the middle of the decade. By comparison, IIRC the player with the most hits in the 90s was Mark Grace. Does that make him a HOFer?
I couldnt find grace on your little number list there. but Morris' # is very close to in. Who was better that was predominatly an 80's pitcher? The rocket?
Grace only has a score of 60.5.As for players that played in the 80s, there are a lot of players that had careers that spilled into the 70s or into the 90s. For example . . .ClemensHersheiserSuttonCarltonRyanNiekroWelchBlylevenGoodenAndujarScottValenzuelaConeMadduxSaberhagenViolaStewartStiebGuidryPalmerSeaverJohnMcGregorI'm not saying Morris was better or worse than any of those guys, but Morris did benefit from playing in 10 seasons when many others did not.
Really? He must have won a bunch of Cy Young awards then, huh?
He won the most games in the 80s and played all of them in hitters parks. He also was
in the playoffs. :hof:
1976 Randy Jones San Diego Padres 22–14 0 2.74 1981 Fernando Valenzuela Los Angeles Dodgers 13–7 0 2.48 1983 John Denny Philadelphia Phillies 19–6 0 2.37 1985 Dwight Gooden*+ New York Mets 24–4 0 1.53 1986 Mike Scott Houston Astros 18–10 0 2.22 1987 Steve Bedrosian Philadelphia Phillies 5–3 40 2.83 1989 Mark Davis San Diego Padres 4–3 44 1.85 1990 Doug Drabek Pittsburgh Pirates 22–6 0 2.76 Here are some Cy Young winners.
I'm sure Mark Davis will be on the 2007 ballot. 
His career ERA was 3.90 when the league ERA was 4.08. He ranks 40th in wins and 31st in strikeouts. His adjusted ERA is only 105 and he does not even chart in the other main pitching categories. His career WHIP is average at 1.296. He pitched 14 years in Tigers Stadium which for those that don't remember the CF fence was 440 feet away. I would not call Detroit a "hitter's park."As I already posted, his post season record was 7-4 with a 3.80. People remember a couple of solid WS outings, but he needs a lot more to hang his hat on IMO. Most wins in the 80s is nice, but there are a lot more pitchers that if you added up 10 year stretched they would have had way more wins than Morris over 10 years. It just so happened that his 10 years aligned perfectly with "the 80s."He won the most games in the 80s and played all of them in hitters parks. He also was
Game 7 of the 1991 WS was a tad better than "solid".
OK . . . call it the best pitching performance of all time if you want. Is someone a HOFer over a single game?I understand he was good in the 84 and 91 Word Series. But he got SHELLED in the 92 Series . . . and the 87 ALDS . . . and the 92 ALCS.Again, I'm not saying he was a bad pitcher only that IMO he was far from one of the greatest to ever play the game. He only was on 41% of ballots so he has quite a ways to go to get in the HOF. Maybe he gets in, maybe he doesn't I won't lose any sleep either way.
I'm not arguing he should be in.
And 370 to the power alleys, Tiger Stadium was most definately a hitters park.He also played on some Fugly tigers teams by the late 80'sHis career ERA was 3.90 when the league ERA was 4.08. He ranks 40th in wins and 31st in strikeouts. His adjusted ERA is only 105 and he does not even chart in the other main pitching categories. His career WHIP is average at 1.296. He pitched 14 years in Tigers Stadium which for those that don't remember the CF fence was 440 feet away. I would not call Detroit a "hitter's park."As I already posted, his post season record was 7-4 with a 3.80. People remember a couple of solid WS outings, but he needs a lot more to hang his hat on IMO. Most wins in the 80s is nice, but there are a lot more pitchers that if you added up 10 year stretched they would have had way more wins than Morris over 10 years. It just so happened that his 10 years aligned perfectly with "the 80s."He won the most games in the 80s and played all of them in hitters parks. He also was
+2 for HR to LF, +2 to RF, 1 to LCF, 0 to RCF. The park had shallow fences to left and right and entended to the deepest CF in the majors where I only remember 10 to 15 homers ever being hit while I was growing up. I did see a lot of triples in that area though and since it was a even triples park and a -1 doubles park, I'd say it was park that favored hitters and I'll bet I kind find evidence to support this but won't. Most people know Tiger Stadium favored hitters but I guess you didn't watch baseball there very much.His career ERA was 3.90 when the league ERA was 4.08. He ranks 40th in wins and 31st in strikeouts. His adjusted ERA is only 105 and he does not even chart in the other main pitching categories. His career WHIP is average at 1.296. He pitched 14 years in Tigers Stadium which for those that don't remember the CF fence was 440 feet away. I would not call Detroit a "hitter's park."He won the most games in the 80s and played all of them in hitters parks. He also wasin the playoffs. :hof:
I've made my case for Morris before and I realize I should concentrate on Lou Whitaker not being in the HOF while Ryan Sandberg is. But Morris was simply the best pitcher in the AL over a period of time (1979-1992) but I understand he was never the best in any one year or ever really dominant. Why should Jack Morris be any different than Bruce Sutter? Why does Ryne Sandberg get to be in the Hall of Fame for allegedly being the best 2B of his generation when his stats just didn't add up? Morris' stats are closer to that of a HOF than Sandberg's are relatively speaking and Bruce Sutter was just some sort of joke played on Goose Goosage for money. So what? Why would you fault a guy for the years he played? Not his fault he led the league those years. Also name the other guys with more wins in a ten year stretch or guys who lead the league in wins for a ten year stretch that aren't in the HOF? I'll bet you aren't going to come up with too many names. JACK MORRIS TO THE HALL OF FAME!!!!!!!!!!!!
WARP-1, by age:Biggio:
Not one second before Bert Blyleven.+2 for HR to LF, +2 to RF, 1 to LCF, 0 to RCF. The park had shallow fences to left and right and entended to the deepest CF in the majors where I only remember 10 to 15 homers ever being hit while I was growing up. I did see a lot of triples in that area though and since it was a even triples park and a -1 doubles park, I'd say it was park that favored hitters and I'll bet I kind find evidence to support this but won't. Most people know Tiger Stadium favored hitters but I guess you didn't watch baseball there very much.His career ERA was 3.90 when the league ERA was 4.08. He ranks 40th in wins and 31st in strikeouts. His adjusted ERA is only 105 and he does not even chart in the other main pitching categories. His career WHIP is average at 1.296. He pitched 14 years in Tigers Stadium which for those that don't remember the CF fence was 440 feet away. I would not call Detroit a "hitter's park."He won the most games in the 80s and played all of them in hitters parks. He also wasin the playoffs. :hof:
You mentioned some interesting things but also left some things out. Yes Morris is 42nd on the win list but how many pitchers with more wins than Morris are in the HOF or are going to the HOF?
Answer is seven. Four were deadball era pitchers and then we have John, Blyleven, and Kaat. Kaat's career was over 4 decades, John is slightly underrated IMO, and Blyleven will get in even though his career is much like Morris'. Blyleven pitched for 22 seasons, Morris pitched in 18 thus the win difference.
Morris lead the league in wins twice, and seven other times was in the top five. Jack Morris started 34 games or more 11 times and had 175 complete games. How many complete games does Schilling have? You have to consider the fact that Jack Morris was often left in games way past the point of no return just to eat innings. He did it and gave up Cy Young awards and ERA+, WHIP, and OAV+ numbers in the process. In today's game Morris would have gone seven and sat. Over the course of a season that would have made all the difference.
Jack Morris was one of the first pitchers to perfect the split-fingered fastball making him a trailblazer in the sport.
Jack Morris was 7-1 in the 1984, 1987, and 1991 posteseasons combined. In five WS starts in 1984 and 1991 he gave up 31 hits and 12 walks in 41 innings for an ERA under 2 and a WHIP of around one even. Morris lost three games in 1992 because he just got tired as his career was ending and he never really recovered. Toronto fans must have appreciated the 34 starts and 21 wins that year though. He put them over the top.
Morris was a key clog in three World Championship teams and was the guy who pitched one of the most memorable world series games in the history of baseball. I'll take a guy who shuts out the other guy in game 7 of a World series for ten innings any day and that feat alone is priceless. WS MVP with HOF credentials means a lot...to me anyway.
So what? Why would you fault a guy for the years he played? Not his fault he led the league those years. Also name the other guys with more wins in a ten year stretch or guys who lead the league in wins for a ten year stretch that aren't in the HOF? I'll bet you aren't going to come up with too many names. JACK MORRIS TO THE HALL OF FAME!!!!!!!!!!!!
Blyleven deserves to be in also and if you look at their careers, they are very similar. Never dominant, always very, very good and over a long period of time, they were better than almost all of their peers.Not one second before Bert Blyleven.+2 for HR to LF, +2 to RF, 1 to LCF, 0 to RCF. The park had shallow fences to left and right and entended to the deepest CF in the majors where I only remember 10 to 15 homers ever being hit while I was growing up. I did see a lot of triples in that area though and since it was a even triples park and a -1 doubles park, I'd say it was park that favored hitters and I'll bet I kind find evidence to support this but won't. Most people know Tiger Stadium favored hitters but I guess you didn't watch baseball there very much.His career ERA was 3.90 when the league ERA was 4.08. He ranks 40th in wins and 31st in strikeouts. His adjusted ERA is only 105 and he does not even chart in the other main pitching categories. His career WHIP is average at 1.296. He pitched 14 years in Tigers Stadium which for those that don't remember the CF fence was 440 feet away. I would not call Detroit a "hitter's park."He won the most games in the 80s and played all of them in hitters parks. He also was
You mentioned some interesting things but also left some things out. Yes Morris is 42nd on the win list but how many pitchers with more wins than Morris are in the HOF or are going to the HOF?
Answer is seven. Four were deadball era pitchers and then we have John, Blyleven, and Kaat. Kaat's career was over 4 decades, John is slightly underrated IMO, and Blyleven will get in even though his career is much like Morris'. Blyleven pitched for 22 seasons, Morris pitched in 18 thus the win difference.
Morris lead the league in wins twice, and seven other times was in the top five. Jack Morris started 34 games or more 11 times and had 175 complete games. How many complete games does Schilling have? You have to consider the fact that Jack Morris was often left in games way past the point of no return just to eat innings. He did it and gave up Cy Young awards and ERA+, WHIP, and OAV+ numbers in the process. In today's game Morris would have gone seven and sat. Over the course of a season that would have made all the difference.
Jack Morris was one of the first pitchers to perfect the split-fingered fastball making him a trailblazer in the sport.
Jack Morris was 7-1 in the 1984, 1987, and 1991 posteseasons combined. In five WS starts in 1984 and 1991 he gave up 31 hits and 12 walks in 41 innings for an ERA under 2 and a WHIP of around one even. Morris lost three games in 1992 because he just got tired as his career was ending and he never really recovered. Toronto fans must have appreciated the 34 starts and 21 wins that year though. He put them over the top.
Morris was a key clog in three World Championship teams and was the guy who pitched one of the most memorable world series games in the history of baseball. I'll take a guy who shuts out the other guy in game 7 of a World series for ten innings any day and that feat alone is priceless. WS MVP with HOF credentials means a lot...to me anyway.
So what? Why would you fault a guy for the years he played? Not his fault he led the league those years. Also name the other guys with more wins in a ten year stretch or guys who lead the league in wins for a ten year stretch that aren't in the HOF? I'll bet you aren't going to come up with too many names. JACK MORRIS TO THE HALL OF FAME!!!!!!!!!!!!
1976 Randy Jones San Diego Padres 22–14 0 2.74 1981 Fernando Valenzuela Los Angeles Dodgers 13–7 0 2.48
1983 John Denny Philadelphia Phillies 19–6 0 2.37
1985 Dwight Gooden*+ New York Mets 24–4 0 1.53
1986 Mike Scott Houston Astros 18–10 0 2.22
1987 Steve Bedrosian Philadelphia Phillies 5–3 40 2.83
1989 Mark Davis San Diego Padres 4–3 44 1.85
1990 Doug Drabek Pittsburgh Pirates 22–6 0 2.76
Here are some Cy Young winners.
I'm sure Mark Davis will be on the 2007 ballot.
Where did I say CYA winners were automatic HOFers? I just figured if a guy was "the best pitcher" in the game for a decade then he'd have won it at least once. You'd probably assume he made the all star team more than 4 times during that span but you'd be wrong again.
He was an All Star in 81, 84, 85, 87, and 91. He was the winningest best pitcher from 1979 to 1992 not just the 80s and again you are lunging at a swinging rope tying HOF inclusion and things like All Star appearances together. Lets look at some recent HOF inductees and Blyleven to fully appreciate:1976 Randy Jones San Diego Padres 22–14 0 2.74 1981 Fernando Valenzuela Los Angeles Dodgers 13–7 0 2.48
1983 John Denny Philadelphia Phillies 19–6 0 2.37
1985 Dwight Gooden*+ New York Mets 24–4 0 1.53
1986 Mike Scott Houston Astros 18–10 0 2.22
1987 Steve Bedrosian Philadelphia Phillies 5–3 40 2.83
1989 Mark Davis San Diego Padres 4–3 44 1.85
1990 Doug Drabek Pittsburgh Pirates 22–6 0 2.76
Here are some Cy Young winners.
I'm sure Mark Davis will be on the 2007 ballot.Where did I say CYA winners were automatic HOFers? I just figured if a guy was "the best pitcher" in the game for a decade then he'd have won it at least once. You'd probably assume he made the all star team more than 4 times during that span but you'd be wrong again.
He was an All Star in 81, 84, 85, 87, and 91. He was the winningest best pitcher from 1979 to 1992 not just the 80s and again you are lunging at a swinging rope tying HOF inclusion and things like All Star appearances together. Lets look at some recent HOF inductees and Blyleven to fully appreciate:1976 Randy Jones San Diego Padres 22–14 0 2.74 1981 Fernando Valenzuela Los Angeles Dodgers 13–7 0 2.48
1983 John Denny Philadelphia Phillies 19–6 0 2.37
1985 Dwight Gooden*+ New York Mets 24–4 0 1.53
1986 Mike Scott Houston Astros 18–10 0 2.22
1987 Steve Bedrosian Philadelphia Phillies 5–3 40 2.83
1989 Mark Davis San Diego Padres 4–3 44 1.85
1990 Doug Drabek Pittsburgh Pirates 22–6 0 2.76
Here are some Cy Young winners.
I'm sure Mark Davis will be on the 2007 ballot.
Bert Blylevin had two All Star appearances
Gaylord Perry, five
Phil Nikro, five
Nolan Ryan, eight
Fergie Jenkins, three
Bruce Sutter, six
So now you've linked All Star appearances and Cy Young awards to the criteria for entry into the Hall of Fame. What's next? Hat size? :bondsisalreadyin:
Morris=7 1/4
Dave Steib was pretty damn good in the 80's (140 - 109) and had one of the best curve balls I've even seen.I'd still take Morris over him for the decade though.
I saw Dave Steib at a little league game in Michigan and went over and introduced myself. He acted like he wasn't Dave Steib and almost called the cops when I asked him if I could get a picture with him but I'm pretty sure he was just shy.Dave Steib was pretty damn good in the 80's (140 - 109) and had one of the best curve balls I've even seen.I'd still take Morris over him for the decade though.
Jack Morris had 175 complete games.
Thats alot.
Yes, All Star appreances and Cy Young awards are part of a player's resume. Are you saying they have nothing to do with how good a pitcher is? Not sure why you're bringing up those other players, because I'm not justifying the inclusion of those guys.He was an All Star in 81, 84, 85, 87, and 91. He was the winningest best pitcher from 1979 to 1992 not just the 80s and again you are lunging at a swinging rope tying HOF inclusion and things like All Star appearances together. Lets look at some recent HOF inductees and Blyleven to fully appreciate:1976 Randy Jones San Diego Padres 22–14 0 2.74 1981 Fernando Valenzuela Los Angeles Dodgers 13–7 0 2.48
1983 John Denny Philadelphia Phillies 19–6 0 2.37
1985 Dwight Gooden*+ New York Mets 24–4 0 1.53
1986 Mike Scott Houston Astros 18–10 0 2.22
1987 Steve Bedrosian Philadelphia Phillies 5–3 40 2.83
1989 Mark Davis San Diego Padres 4–3 44 1.85
1990 Doug Drabek Pittsburgh Pirates 22–6 0 2.76
Here are some Cy Young winners.
I'm sure Mark Davis will be on the 2007 ballot.
Bert Blylevin had two All Star appearances
Gaylord Perry, five
Phil Nikro, five
Nolan Ryan, eight
Fergie Jenkins, three
Bruce Sutter, six
So now you've linked All Star appearances and Cy Young awards to the criteria for entry into the Hall of Fame. What's next? Hat size? :bondsisalreadyin:
Morris=7 1/4
. He didn't win a Cy Young award. He was picked 4 times out of 10 to appear in the All Star game during this span. To me, that doesn't spell "dominant".
They can be but are not essential. You seem to think they are which is fine because your criteria is different than others.
Questionable to whom? You? Those guys are in. Guys like Ryne Sandberg and Tony Perez are in also so I guess the bar is lowered.
In that case Morris deserves it even more.
Where did I say dominant? He was the best pitcher over the course of years he pitched. Check my long response to Yuklin.My point is that if you're going to claim a guy was the "dominant" pitcher in the league for a particular decade, you're going to need to have something to back that up. Morris led the AL in wins one time, with 14. He didn't win a Cy Young award. He was picked 4 times out of 10 to appear in the All Star game during this span. To me, that doesn't spell "dominant".
But hey, at least Morris led the league in wild pitches 6 times, so I guess you've got that going for you.
:baddig:
Yes, there are questionable inductees. Sutter, Sandberg, Mazeroski, etc. But you can't take the worst players in the HOF and use them as the baseline. Otherwise, the hall would be flooded.Questionable to whom? You? Those guys are in. Guys like Ryne Sandberg and Tony Perez are in also so I guess the bar is lowered.
I agree. I just think Jack Morris should be in for my above stated reasons. Sports writers are idiots and since I used to be one, I'm probably an idiot too.Yes, there are questionable inductees. Sutter, Sandberg, Mazeroski, etc. But you can't take the worst players in the HOF and use them as the baseline. Otherwise, the hall would be flooded.Questionable to whom? You? Those guys are in. Guys like Ryne Sandberg and Tony Perez are in also so I guess the bar is lowered.
So WARP or whatever the hell it is determines for you who is the best player? I watched both through the majority of their careers and always felt that Jones was the better player. Thats what my eyes tell me. Chipper has never been a great fielder and I always felt Biggio was overrated as a fielder. Chipper has been the much better offensive player.
Always felt that Morris was a better pitcher than Blyleven.Not one second before Bert Blyleven.+2 for HR to LF, +2 to RF, 1 to LCF, 0 to RCF. The park had shallow fences to left and right and entended to the deepest CF in the majors where I only remember 10 to 15 homers ever being hit while I was growing up. I did see a lot of triples in that area though and since it was a even triples park and a -1 doubles park, I'd say it was park that favored hitters and I'll bet I kind find evidence to support this but won't. Most people know Tiger Stadium favored hitters but I guess you didn't watch baseball there very much.His career ERA was 3.90 when the league ERA was 4.08. He ranks 40th in wins and 31st in strikeouts. His adjusted ERA is only 105 and he does not even chart in the other main pitching categories. His career WHIP is average at 1.296. He pitched 14 years in Tigers Stadium which for those that don't remember the CF fence was 440 feet away. I would not call Detroit a "hitter's park."He won the most games in the 80s and played all of them in hitters parks. He also was
You mentioned some interesting things but also left some things out. Yes Morris is 42nd on the win list but how many pitchers with more wins than Morris are in the HOF or are going to the HOF?
Answer is seven. Four were deadball era pitchers and then we have John, Blyleven, and Kaat. Kaat's career was over 4 decades, John is slightly underrated IMO, and Blyleven will get in even though his career is much like Morris'. Blyleven pitched for 22 seasons, Morris pitched in 18 thus the win difference.
Morris lead the league in wins twice, and seven other times was in the top five. Jack Morris started 34 games or more 11 times and had 175 complete games. How many complete games does Schilling have? You have to consider the fact that Jack Morris was often left in games way past the point of no return just to eat innings. He did it and gave up Cy Young awards and ERA+, WHIP, and OAV+ numbers in the process. In today's game Morris would have gone seven and sat. Over the course of a season that would have made all the difference.
Jack Morris was one of the first pitchers to perfect the split-fingered fastball making him a trailblazer in the sport.
Jack Morris was 7-1 in the 1984, 1987, and 1991 posteseasons combined. In five WS starts in 1984 and 1991 he gave up 31 hits and 12 walks in 41 innings for an ERA under 2 and a WHIP of around one even. Morris lost three games in 1992 because he just got tired as his career was ending and he never really recovered. Toronto fans must have appreciated the 34 starts and 21 wins that year though. He put them over the top.
Morris was a key clog in three World Championship teams and was the guy who pitched one of the most memorable world series games in the history of baseball. I'll take a guy who shuts out the other guy in game 7 of a World series for ten innings any day and that feat alone is priceless. WS MVP with HOF credentials means a lot...to me anyway.
So what? Why would you fault a guy for the years he played? Not his fault he led the league those years. Also name the other guys with more wins in a ten year stretch or guys who lead the league in wins for a ten year stretch that aren't in the HOF? I'll bet you aren't going to come up with too many names. JACK MORRIS TO THE HALL OF FAME!!!!!!!!!!!!
Always felt that Morris was a better pitcher than Blyleven.Not one second before Bert Blyleven.+2 for HR to LF, +2 to RF, 1 to LCF, 0 to RCF. The park had shallow fences to left and right and entended to the deepest CF in the majors where I only remember 10 to 15 homers ever being hit while I was growing up. I did see a lot of triples in that area though and since it was a even triples park and a -1 doubles park, I'd say it was park that favored hitters and I'll bet I kind find evidence to support this but won't. Most people know Tiger Stadium favored hitters but I guess you didn't watch baseball there very much.His career ERA was 3.90 when the league ERA was 4.08. He ranks 40th in wins and 31st in strikeouts. His adjusted ERA is only 105 and he does not even chart in the other main pitching categories. His career WHIP is average at 1.296. He pitched 14 years in Tigers Stadium which for those that don't remember the CF fence was 440 feet away. I would not call Detroit a "hitter's park."He won the most games in the 80s and played all of them in hitters parks. He also was
You mentioned some interesting things but also left some things out. Yes Morris is 42nd on the win list but how many pitchers with more wins than Morris are in the HOF or are going to the HOF?
Answer is seven. Four were deadball era pitchers and then we have John, Blyleven, and Kaat. Kaat's career was over 4 decades, John is slightly underrated IMO, and Blyleven will get in even though his career is much like Morris'. Blyleven pitched for 22 seasons, Morris pitched in 18 thus the win difference.
Morris lead the league in wins twice, and seven other times was in the top five. Jack Morris started 34 games or more 11 times and had 175 complete games. How many complete games does Schilling have? You have to consider the fact that Jack Morris was often left in games way past the point of no return just to eat innings. He did it and gave up Cy Young awards and ERA+, WHIP, and OAV+ numbers in the process. In today's game Morris would have gone seven and sat. Over the course of a season that would have made all the difference.
Jack Morris was one of the first pitchers to perfect the split-fingered fastball making him a trailblazer in the sport.
Jack Morris was 7-1 in the 1984, 1987, and 1991 posteseasons combined. In five WS starts in 1984 and 1991 he gave up 31 hits and 12 walks in 41 innings for an ERA under 2 and a WHIP of around one even. Morris lost three games in 1992 because he just got tired as his career was ending and he never really recovered. Toronto fans must have appreciated the 34 starts and 21 wins that year though. He put them over the top.
Morris was a key clog in three World Championship teams and was the guy who pitched one of the most memorable world series games in the history of baseball. I'll take a guy who shuts out the other guy in game 7 of a World series for ten innings any day and that feat alone is priceless. WS MVP with HOF credentials means a lot...to me anyway.
So what? Why would you fault a guy for the years he played? Not his fault he led the league those years. Also name the other guys with more wins in a ten year stretch or guys who lead the league in wins for a ten year stretch that aren't in the HOF? I'll bet you aren't going to come up with too many names. JACK MORRIS TO THE HALL OF FAME!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well, Chipper did get half a career in the launching pad, while Biggs played half a career in the cavernous Dome. They are different players, Jones was a run producer, Biggio the tablesetter. It's an interesting debate though, because if you are letting me pick one for my team, I'd take a healthy Chipper, but if I had to take one of their careers, I'd take Biggio. Staying healthy is part of it.
Anniversary bump.
Nah we were talking all-time 2Bman today and I thought of this and it was a coincidence that it had been one full year. Thanks for being a good sport shady.
Biggio played in 91% of the games the Astros team played over his career. Jones has played in 90% of the games the Braves have played over his career. Looks like a wash to me in the health and availablitiy department.
I may have overexaggerated a bit but I also think you're overexaggerating your reaction a bit as well. I dont think its as laughable a statement as you think it is. The guy has an MVP, is the all time leader in HRs by a 2B (nearly 100 more than HOFer Sandberg), 6 straight 100 RBI seasons, has almost 1500 RBIs, and I cant look up stats but Im assuming his .858 OPS is pretty good for 2B in the HOF. IMO he will be a HOFer and I think needs to be included in the discussion. Now obviously Rogers Hornsby is prob the best 2B of all time but I havent seen him play
so I went with a more recent guy. Now dont get me wrong, Kent did all this in the steroid era so his #s may be tainted but I really dont think my post was laughable.
it's closer than i would have guessed, but i think you overlooked a couple of things...1. Chipper missed all of 19942. 1994 and 1995 were shortened by the strike.Adjusting for this, i get something closer to 93% for Biggio and 86% for Jones. Whichever, both are HOFers in my book.
As you said, it doesn't really matter . . .But I did account for the strike for Biggio but forgot about Chipper missing a year. I thought he was still in the minors then.
It is pretty laughable, it really is. He may be a HOF, but he's not a slam dunk and he's not even close to being the best hitting 2Bman of all-time. His OPS of .858 is great for a 2B in the steroid era but when you adjust his OPS and use OPS+ which considers league averages during the time he played look how he compares:I may have overexaggerated a bit but I also think you're overexaggerating your reaction a bit as well. I dont think its as laughable a statement as you think it is. The guy has an MVP, is the all time leader in HRs by a 2B (nearly 100 more than HOFer Sandberg), 6 straight 100 RBI seasons, has almost 1500 RBIs, and I cant look up stats but Im assuming his .858 OPS is pretty good for 2B in the HOF. IMO he will be a HOFer and I think needs to be included in the discussion. Now obviously Rogers Hornsby is prob the best 2B of all time but I havent seen him play
Hells yes he is. Pedro will CRUISE into the HOF even if he never pitched again. Arguably the best RHP I have ever seen.
You certainly have an argument, but being a DH in the biggest offensive era in baseball (errr, roids), really hurts him. One of the best pure hitters I have ever seen, one of the best of our generation for sure. Not huge HR power, but plenty of XBHs, enough HR pop and sick OBP plus average. Total package.
It's not a strong argument, but Edgar's always been one of my favorite players, so I pull for the guy.
