Looks like Brady v Manning is finally settled (1 Viewer)

[SacramentoBob]

Patriots lose Tom Brady at the beginning of the 2008 season. Mediocre, young QB who didn't even play in college comes in and the Patriots go 11-5 and finish 8th in scoring offense.

Colts lose Peyton Manning at the beginning of the 2011 season. Mediocre, young QB comes in and the Colts are 0-8 and 30th in scoring offense.

Since leaving New England, Cassel is 17-19 as a starter, averaging under 200 yards and almost 1 INT per game.

At this point, it's barely even a question that Manning is the better QB. Just like some argued in the mid 2000s, the defense carried Brady early on. As soon as he lost that defense, suddenly he goes from unbeatable to a .500 playoff record, even losing @ home in the divisional round as the #1 seed.

Would it be out of the question to award the MVP to a player who won't even take the field? It's pretty clear that there are few people in the history of the NFL who are more valuable to their team than Manning is to the Colts.

 

[Dought Man]

The Pats didnt do great without Brady either. They just had an easy easy schedule and a lot of breaks. Or, this is what someone in Boston told me...so it must be true.

 

[higgins]

Glad that's cleared up.

 

[eoMMan]

Lock this #### up and throw away the key.

 

[Native]

Patriots lose Tom Brady at the beginning of the 2008 season. Mediocre, young QB who didn't even play in college comes in and the Patriots go 11-5 and finish 8th in scoring offense.Colts lose Peyton Manning at the beginning of the 2011 season. Mediocre, young QB comes in and the Colts are 0-8 and 30th in scoring offense.Since leaving New England, Cassel is 17-19 as a starter, averaging under 200 yards and almost 1 INT per game.At this point, it's barely even a question that Manning is the better QB. Just like some argued in the mid 2000s, the defense carried Brady early on. As soon as he lost that defense, suddenly he goes from unbeatable to a .500 playoff record, even losing @ home in the divisional round as the #1 seed.Would it be out of the question to award the MVP to a player who won't even take the field? It's pretty clear that there are few people in the history of the NFL who are more valuable to their team than Manning is to the Colts.

Not to take anything away from Brady, but Manning is on a whole other level.

 

[Jewell]

And then Cassel went on to be fairly effective QB for the Chiefs. I can't see Painter ever being fairly effective.

When Brady went down, the Pats had Belichick to rally the troops. When Manning went down, the Colts had Caldwell to stand on the sidelines looking dumbfounded.

There is some difference in the variables between the situations.

 

[Multiple Scores]

Once the Colts lost week 1 I believe they decided to tank their season.

 

[scrumptrulescent]

Imagine all the rings if Peyton had become a Patriot. Dizzying.

 

[Limp Ditka]

Once the Colts lost week 1 I believe they decided to tank their season.

Who do you think did this deciding?

 

[Casting Couch]

It is finally settled.

Brady 3 rings

Manning 1.

 

[jon_mx]

The difference is that Manning is the coach on the field. He runs the show. I really think Brady executes better, but doesn't have the skillset Manning has in managing the offense. Manning is a general on the field. Brady is a very talented Corporal.

 

[Reepicheep]

Would it be out of the question to award the MVP to a player who won't even take the field? It's pretty clear that there are few people in the history of the NFL who are more valuable to their team than Manning is to the Colts.

I would peg the value Manning has provided to his team this year at somewhere around "none." Just a ballpark figure. So no MVP for Manning.

 

[Godsbrother]

The difference is that Manning is the coach on the field. He runs the show. I really think Brady executes better, but doesn't have the skillset Manning has in managing the offense. Manning is a general on the field. Brady is a very talented Corporal.

I dunno about the Corporal part but Manning is and has been the offensive coordinator for the Colts. Without him the whole thing was bound to collapse.

 

[cst2006]

Full disclosure, diehard Pats fan (in case the avatar didn't give it away), but for anyone to say Manning is on a "whole other level" from Brady is laughable. I fail to see how citing one's teams failure with or without them holds any merit as far as evaluating how talented either QB is. Brady's weapons (until recent years of course) have always been FAR inferior to Manning's, and as soon as he was provided some good to great offensive players, he put up a video game like season. I still think the jury is out as far as who will be the best at the end of both careers, but my humble opinion is that they are at the very least on an even keel at this point.

 

[eoMMan]

It is finally settled.Brady 3 ringsManning 1.

Is it still a team game?

 

[MDSkinner]

And then Cassel went on to be fairly effective QB for the Chiefs. I can't see Painter ever being fairly effective.

When Brady went down, the Pats had Belichick to rally the troops. When Manning went down, the Colts had Caldwell to stand on the sidelines looking dumbfounded.

There is some difference in the variables between the situations.

Living in KC (though not a Chiefs fan myself) I would suggest that this town does not agree with you about Cassel being effective. Even last year when he had his good run, the majority of this town was not singing his praises or even excited about him. This three game winning streak seems to be a dissappointment for the city, since Sucking for Luck no longer seems like an option.

 

[Walton Goggins]

Patriots lose Tom Brady at the beginning of the 2008 season. Mediocre, young QB who didn't even play in college comes in and the Patriots go 11-5 and finish 8th in scoring offense.Colts lose Peyton Manning at the beginning of the 2011 season. Mediocre, young QB comes in and the Colts are 0-8 and 30th in scoring offense.Since leaving New England, Cassel is 17-19 as a starter, averaging under 200 yards and almost 1 INT per game.At this point, it's barely even a question that Manning is the better QB. Just like some argued in the mid 2000s, the defense carried Brady early on. As soon as he lost that defense, suddenly he goes from unbeatable to a .500 playoff record, even losing @ home in the divisional round as the #1 seed.Would it be out of the question to award the MVP to a player who won't even take the field? It's pretty clear that there are few people in the history of the NFL who are more valuable to their team than Manning is to the Colts.

If Pats didn't have Brady THIS year they wouldn't have won a single game either. They are a horrid team on defense and take Brady out on offense they have zero weapons.

 

[FUBAR]

The only thing that's been decided is the Pats management >>>>> The Colts management.

 

[Reepicheep]

The only thing that's been decided is the Pats management >>>>> The Colts management.

 

[Walton Goggins]

The only thing that's been decided is the Pats management >>>>> The Colts management.

Have you seen how horrible the Pats draft has been, especially with all their draft picks? On par with Indy

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

It is finally settled.Brady 3 ringsManning 1.

True, but didn't the Patriots cheat in one or two of those Super Bowls? I honestly don't remember the details but I know there have always been those suspicions flying around Brady and the Pats. I might still put Brady ahead of Manning anyway, not really sure at this point. I think we need to wait until both of their careers are over so we have all the stats and Super Bowls and details about cheating and everything else, and we can compare them then.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

I'm just curious to see some one actually address the OP's point...

We all know Manning and Brady are great QB's but has there ever been an instance where a team lost one guy and got THIS BAD?

 

[Native]

It is finally settled.Brady 3 ringsManning 1.

I get it, this is funTeddy Bruschi 3 ringsDick Butkus - 0 ringsKevin Faulk - 3 ringsBarry Sanders - 0 ringsThese guys have more rings so clearly theyre better!

 

[WiDDoW_MaKeR]

Maybe Cassel is better than Painter?

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

Speaking of a whole other level, it's another Manning vs Brady thread...woot, woot!

:rimshot:

 

[kingmalaki]

It's finally settled, LeBron > Jordan. When Jordan 1st retired the Bulls only lost 2 additional games and almost made it to the ECF's. When LeBron left Cleveland they lost an additional 42 games!!!

GOAT my ####.....

 

[Jewell]

And then Cassel went on to be fairly effective QB for the Chiefs. I can't see Painter ever being fairly effective.

When Brady went down, the Pats had Belichick to rally the troops. When Manning went down, the Colts had Caldwell to stand on the sidelines looking dumbfounded.

There is some difference in the variables between the situations.

Living in KC (though not a Chiefs fan myself) I would suggest that this town does not agree with you about Cassel being effective. Even last year when he had his good run, the majority of this town was not singing his praises or even excited about him. This three game winning streak seems to be a dissappointment for the city, since Sucking for Luck no longer seems like an option.

Every fanbase wants a Rodgers, Manning, or Brady; but in 2010 Cassel threw for 3,116 yds, at 58.2%, for 27 TDs to only 7 INTs. That's fairly effective, and he's returned to similar effectiveness the past three games. I can't see Painter ever coming close to approaching those numbers over a prolonged run.

 

[Deamon]

Patriots lose Tom Brady at the beginning of the 2008 season. Mediocre, young QB who didn't even play in college comes in and the Patriots go 11-5 and finish 8th in scoring offense.

Colts lose Peyton Manning at the beginning of the 2011 season. Mediocre, young QB comes in and the Colts are 0-8 and 30th in scoring offense.

Since leaving New England, Cassel is 17-19 as a starter, averaging under 200 yards and almost 1 INT per game.

At this point, it's barely even a question that Manning is the better QB. Just like some argued in the mid 2000s, the defense carried Brady early on. As soon as he lost that defense, suddenly he goes from unbeatable to a .500 playoff record, even losing @ home in the divisional round as the #1 seed.

Would it be out of the question to award the MVP to a player who won't even take the field? It's pretty clear that there are few people in the history of the NFL who are more valuable to their team than Manning is to the Colts.

You made one of the dumbest statements ever there, followed by one that makes sense yet refutes your own argument. Since when did "more valuable to their team" mean "better quarterback"???? If Brady was the QB of the colts, I'm assuming there would be the same drop off if he went down. Similarly, if Manning QB'd the Patriots and Cassel took over, there likely wouldn't be this drastic of a drop off. Manning WAS that team, an on field coach, playmaker, etc. Brady is in a great system, but we shouldn't 'punish' a guy for being on a team with a great system.

 

[The Comedian]

It is finally settled.Brady 3 ringsManning 1.

Is it still a team game?

Not according to the OP.

 

[Trenchcoat]

Peyton Manning is the best QB to have ever played the game. He's more essential to his own team than any other single player in the league.

Winning any games in the NFL is a huge undertaking, and the Colts have been exposed for the mediocre talents they are. Despite having WRs who can't get open and drop passes, an offensive line that can't run block, and RBs better left on the waiver wire, Peyton was able to lead this garbage Colts team to 10 wins last season. And only a two years ago, almost to an undefeated regular season.

He's basically what every OC dreams of being: A man who can not only design the plays to beat any defense, but also have the physical talent to execute those plays.

And I'm most definitely not a Colts homer. It pains me to say it as a 49ers fan, but Young and Montana aren't in the same tier as Peyton.

 

[shnikies]

Ugh. Yeah, it's science. The Patriots in 2007-2008 and the Colts in 2010-2011 are the exact same two teams playing the exact same opponents. It's settled, Manning is better.

 

[Run It Up]

Settled a long time ago, Manning is more valuable to his team and Brady is the better QB.

Also, OPs argument is cookiecutter troll material. Oline/Defense/Coaching blah blah blah.

Losing his "elite" defense in 2005 and then going to a .500 record at 16-0 in 2007? Herp Durr.

 

[The Comedian]

Patriots lose Tom Brady at the beginning of the 2008 season. Mediocre, young QB who didn't even play in college comes in and the Patriots go 11-5 and finish 8th in scoring offense.

That same team, with Brady the year before, was arguably the most dominant offense in NFL history, broke all kinds of records, and lead the team to a 16-0 season, something that had never been done before. Without Brady they become a middling team that didn't even make the playoffs. Pretty big drop-off there as well.Most valuable player to team =! better quarterback. The Colts specifically built their entire offense and defense with the assumption of having Peyton Manning there, and once he wasn't, it crumbled. Brady is being "punished" in your argument because the Patriots tried to built a well-rounded team and also chose wisely invest in a solid backup quarterback rather than keep a turd so turdy that the minute Manning wasn't able to come back, they had to bribe Kerry freaking Collins to come out of retirement.

 

[FUBAR]

The only thing that's been decided is the Pats management >>>>> The Colts management.

Have you seen how horrible the Pats draft has been, especially with all their draft picks? On par with Indy

Gronkowski, Hernandez, Mesko, Solder, Chung, and even Edelman for where he was drafted, disagree with you. They're not fantastic in the draft but they're not horrible.

 

[Dentist]

What's the colts record this year WITH manning?

Don't you think that team was on the verge of dropping off anyway?

They would be a lot better, but I'm guessing a 5-3 ceiling... it's not like they'd be 8-0

 

[Native]

What's the colts record this year WITH manning?Don't you think that team was on the verge of dropping off anyway?They would be a lot better, but I'm guessing a 5-3 ceiling... it's not like they'd be 8-0

Hard to say. Whose to say Garcon wouldnt turn into the next Marvin Harrison or Torry Holt with a healthy Manning throwing him the ball?

 

[3nOut]

What does a player have to do to qualify for MVP? Is being on the active roster enough to make you eligible? Manning is clearly the Colt's MVP and apparently his presense(and absense) has the biggest impact on his team compared to other candidates. It would be cool to see someone who hasn't played a single down all season get the award.

 

[SacramentoBob]

Losing his "elite" defense in 2005 and then going to a .500 record at 16-0 in 2007? Herp Durr.

Try re-reading.

 

[IHEARTFF]

Manning is probably worth about 8 wins above Painter/Collins/replacement QB over the course of a 16 game season. The problem is, Manning might not ever play again.

 

[The Comedian]

What does a player have to do to qualify for MVP? Is being on the active roster enough to make you eligible? Manning is clearly the Colt's MVP and apparently his presense(and absense) has the biggest impact on his team compared to other candidates. It would be cool to see someone who hasn't played a single down all season get the award.

Actually it would be idiotic.

 

[IHEARTFF]

It is finally settled.Brady 3 ringsManning 1.

I get it, this is funTeddy Bruschi 3 ringsDick Butkus - 0 ringsKevin Faulk - 3 ringsBarry Sanders - 0 ringsThese guys have more rings so clearly theyre better!

this

 

[parrot]

Glad that's cleared up.

It's a damn shame switz isn't here to see it.

 

[Zeff]

Pretty much just a re-run of what Manning detractors have been saying all along, quite accurately.

Nobody was ever better at leading a team against lackluster regular season opponents.

But he had no heart, and couldn't get it done with any kind of reliability when all the chips were on the line. If not for a one-season defensive miracle when the other side of the ball carried the team to a title, this thing would be 3-0 Brady and would be a laugher.

Since Manning didn't really earn the one he's got, it's still a laugher to most who understand the game.

The point of the game has always been to win rings. Winning a fistful of them has never been a guarantee you're great. But failure to do so has always been...and will always be...a guarantee you're not.

If you wanted to win a title, Manning shouldn't be one of the first ten QB's from history you'd pick. Brady would be top 3.

QED

 

[Phlash]

The only thing that's been decided is the Pats management >>>>> The Colts management.

Have you seen how horrible the Pats draft has been, especially with all their draft picks? On par with Indy

Then why are they winning? Brady?

 

[The Comedian]

Glad that's cleared up.

It's a damn shame switz isn't here to see it.

What ever happened to that doosh?

 

[The Comedian]

So if the Colts had Josh Johnson or Matt Flynn as their backup, and the Colts had a win or two, does that make Manning less of a player?

 

[Phlash]

The Shark Pool: Where you're carried to Superbowl rings, and all of your regular season stats are earned solely on your own talents.

Oh you guys.

 

[cubbie5150]

And then Cassel went on to be fairly effective QB for the Chiefs. I can't see Painter ever being fairly effective.

When Brady went down, the Pats had Belichick to rally the troops. When Manning went down, the Colts had Caldwell to stand on the sidelines looking dumbfounded.

There is some difference in the variables between the situations.

I have no dog in this fight (not a fan of either team), but they are totally different situations. I think it's simplistic to compare them in a vacuum

 

[parrot]

Glad that's cleared up.

It's a damn shame switz isn't here to see it.

What ever happened to that doosh?

Between Brady getting the unanimous MVP and Manning being out, I assume he slit his wrists.

 

[mbuehner]

Does the fact that Colts backups were never seriously expected to play, much less were groomed in the offense or given serious snaps in practice or late in games, have anything to do with it?