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It boggles my mind how no one has mentioned RW's breakaway potential.
I don't have the exat states offhand, but he certainly had many cases last year where be took a run or a pass to the house from quite a ways out. This is definitely more than than the one LT2 run of 75, and certainly more than Portis as well. If someone could come back me up with exact numbers, that'd be great.
a good point, but to counter:1. Gary & Anderson were not highly-drafted nor drafted to become the feature back. Portis was.; 2. Anderson & Gary tailed off bc they got hurt. Who knows what would have become of them have they never been injured?; and3. Anderson/Griffin is/are no more a threat to take carries than any other BU RB.But I will agree you have a v. good point that LT is the only show in town when it comes to the SD ground game. Only question is if you interpet that as a good thing or a bad thing.
Ricky and LT put up numbers to be sure...but Ricky (6.4 PPG) and LT (7.4 PPG) were far, far away from being the top RB. In fact, Ricky was about as far away in PPG from Ahman Green as he was from Priest Holmes.One could argue that if Priest Holmes' mother and father never met, Ricky would have been the top RB in FF last year. His 324 FPs was the sixth highest total the past five years. However, I'd say the fact that he was so good on such a bad offense makes it more likely that it was a fluke, than anything.Williams and Tomlinson were both top five picks, both #5 IIRC. There's no question on their talent, I think they're both studs. However, I think they're goin to have problems scoring so many touchdowns again this year, and could easily drop back into the Curtis Martin type FF back--great NFL back, great yardage back, average TD back. It's just a hypothesis that I just now thought of, but there's little argument against history--the top RB in FF comes from the top scoring teams. The high powered offense. The explosive teams. They usually have a great QB too--Warner, Elway, Aikman were obviously playing like HOF QBs when their RBs were the best FF had to offer.Regarding Plummer(as you guys will hopefully read when my view of this is posted on the site), I find it downright silly to downgrade Portis RELATIVE TO Williams and Tomlinson, due to the QB situation. NO WAY a combo of Plummer/Beuerlein is appreciably worse than Fiedler/Brees, and I view the Plummer signing as an upgrade. Plummer could be great, which would help--if Plummer stinks, Beuerlein will play and he was better than Brian Griese anyway.
:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: It takes a small amount of football knowledge, and the NAKED EYE, to EASILY see this is a much better back. I mean, I can appreciate the work or thought process that goes into it, but, come on. No Way. Guys, it's clear as day. The only thing more obvious than Porits' ability is how Shanny will use him -- like he did with his last stud, Davis. 
). I've got the number 2 overall and I am completely confused as to who to take. LT2 is obviously a solid runner on a running offense with a running coach; very tough to everlook. His stats are holding out the notion that he will be one of THE guys for years to come. RW is attractive as his stats probably have one of the biggest chances of having a nice boost since Ray Lucas won't be around to take over during any injuries Fiedler might suffer. If you add stats more in keeping with his yearly averages for those games, assuming Griese can do a better job in spot duty, then you have a number 1 back for last year. Then you have Portis who blew everyone away with his ypc and stupedous moves on the field; he could really become a special player. Not to mention he also has a chance at a nice stat boost starting the whole season and not just 12 games and change. Skeletor makes me a bit nervous however with his talk of "plugging in a new 1500 yard back", but I have to consider that with a grain of salt as anyone who can put up those numbers starting for only a partial season can't be THAT easy to replace. Also, now that Priest seems to be healthy he has to be a consideration at the top since, when healthy, he is a concensus #1. The worst part about it is the guy picking number 1 ahead of me likes to shake things up and tends to go with his sleeper list rather than any concensus so it is possible that all of these guys will be available with the number 2. 3-4 guys to strongly consider for one spot. Very tough!
Even in a dynasty league LT has huge value. This is only his 3rd year. He may even be a better pick than Portis in a dynasty league. Why?1) Portis doesn't have a full year under his belt. He could be the next Chris Warren. If Denver's O falters, which will happen sooner or later (it happens to all NFL teams), then Portis could wind up being just a good back, and not a concensus #1 from year to year.2) LT is in a better system for a RB. It's not heads and shoulders better because Denver is a pretty RB friendly system as well, but Schottzy loves the run and Brees isn't going to put up Bledsoe like numbers and chuck 600+ attempts in a year. I don't know how many times Plummer will throw the ball, but I have a feeling it will be a lot more than Brees this year.3) With some questions on defense, SD's best defensive player just may be LT in terms of ball control. In order to keep opposing offenses off the field Marty will run-run-run.4) While SD is definitely a run first offense, Boston (if healthy and not suspended) will stretch the field and force D's to stay honest. Rod Smith, Easy Ed, and the kid will not be as imposing as Boston. Portis is going to see more guys in the box than he saw last year.After all that, I would be just as confident with identical teams except for one having LT and one having Portis. As long as the rest of my team was solid, either of these guys could lead me to the playoffs and win me a championship....
No, I don't and looking at where they were drafted apparently most NFL scouts don't either.How many 1000 yd rushers have there been in Denver in the past 5 years?When's the last time San Diego EVER had a 1000 yd runner? Natrone?To correlate YPC directly to talent is ridiculous... Mike Anderson had a 5.1 YPC in his 2000 campaign, 0.6 more than Edgerrin James... You could have made the exact same statement comparing Anderson to James that you're doing with Portis and Tomlinson.
No one seemed to think that Faulk or James circa 2000 or 2001 being an every down back was a bad thing, why should it be one now?But I will agree you have a v. good point that LT is the only show in town when it comes to the SD ground game. Only question is if you interpet that as a good thing or a bad thing.
The only way plummer is an upgrade is in his ability to improvise and scramble. The only way I see him succeeding in a WCO is if he can be a poor man's brett favre running and slinging the ball. If anything, I see a couple of bootlegs at the goaline stealing a couple of Portis's TDs.
I'm talking more about being excessively fed the rock year in and year out. The more touches a guy has the more chances he has of getting injured. Optimally you want the guy who can get you the most production with the fewest number of touches.In order to led the league LT will need another 372 carries & 79 catches, and even that wasn't enough last year. I'd rather have Portis who managed to come in 4th -- one spot behind the beloved LT -- with 273 carries & 33 catches. So on 451 touches to Portis 306, LT managed a whopping 18 more fantasy points. I'll take the difference (which Portis could easily make up this year, but i'd still take it) if it meant that Portis would take 140 something fewer hits and expose himself to injury 140 fewer times.edge had 431 touches in 1999. he had 450 in 2000. i don't need to tell you what happened in 2001. faulk has tons of touches every year & is dinged up year in & year out.you obv. can't predict injuries, but you can play the odds.
a) i'm not comparing an UDFA to a top 3 RB. don't use extremes to try to make me look stupid. i do a fine job of that on my own.2) i'm not looking at yearly YPC, i'm looking at it per game. i'm not saying the fact that LT had a lot of games under 4.0ypc is a reason to drastically drop him, but when you are comparing him to a player like Portis who ran for over 5.0ypc in half his games, i'm not sure how can say it is meaningless???? portis is doing more with less touches. that is what i want.
/ Highest YPC, Brooks 
I mean come on look at the #s he put up as the starter! 
If your not immpressed with that, than you simply can not be impressed. Not to mention Portis is the 1st featured back in Den. since.... guess who TD. Anyone remember what kinda #s he put up as the featured back out there. If I remember correctly they were right up there with the Emmits & Faulks of FF. Now I'm not tryin to say Portis is a better back than TD (he was probably one of the best I ever saw for a 2-3 yr. span), but lets think about this. Portis IMO has more tallent than Davis did and this is backed up by looking at what rounds each was drafted in. At the same time though Davis had a better supporting cast. Elway was there, better D and O-line and WRs were still young at that point. But still who's to say that Portis can't get better. Odds are he will improve in the 1890 tot yds and 17 TDs he put up last yr. He will get more touches this yr. So to say that Portis is not a #1 overall canidate. Is to say that LT and Ricky will out produce there #s from last yr., but most places I've looked don't predict this. I'm not really a Portis lover my self. As personally I will be happy to end up with any of the 3 seeing that IMO very little seperates them. My current rankings are Williams, Portis, LT2, and seeing that I have the 2nd pick in my draft, I will be happy no matter what. But I must say I know the 1st one gone will be Williams (my brother has 1st pick and loves the guy) so I get to choose between LT and Portis. As of right now I'd have to say it will be a draft day decision, cause the more I read the harder it is to make up my mind.
)One of the guys that's a regular at my house on Sundays is the biggest Ricky fan out there [period] He's drafted him in our auction league 2 years running and is currently trying to figure out how much he's going to have to spend to get him so that he can plot out the rest of his draft. I have 3 TV's set-up with the ticket and have seen just about every RW game for 2 years. IMO he is the purest RB in the game and last year showed some signs that he was catching the ball a little better than he did in NO.Owned LT his rookie year and one of my other buddies had him last year. I've seen just about everyone of his games as well. IMO he's just as good a RB as RW, but more exciting. With these 2 guys you've got immense talent and coaches that will stand behind them no matter what. The team is designed around them.I picked up Portis off of our FA pool last year (sounds like a guppy league, but we have strict roster guidelines that basically leaves plenty of talent out there). After having a poor draft last year, he carried my team to the playoffs almost sinle-handedly. I would love to have him on my team this year. The problem has been pointed out already: Shanahan. He firmly believes that it is his system that produces these monsters and rightly so condering the history in Denver. Any stumble by Portis and he's out and you're wondering what happened to your #1 pick.I've got the #1 pick a league this year. While I still haven't decided on my pick yet, it is a 2 dog race. I'm in 3 leagues this year, so the rules all run together at times, but I don't believe we get a point/rec here. That makes these 2 dead even in my book. So I guess the 3rd guy in the draft only has to sweat out one pick if he's hoping for CP.
If we go with this theory that the #1 RB will be from an elite offense, who are the canidates?RW? Not enough offense. No other real offensive support. Will be hard pressed to get 383 carries again.LT? Boston will help, but still not a lot of scoring and certainly not at an elite level. Like RW, will be lucky to get the number of touches he got last year.Portis? Has more other offensive threats than the RW and LT, but Plummer/Smith/Sharpe/et al are good but not exceptional.Faulk? He's been #1 before, the Rams offense is still solid, and the Rams have an easy schedule. If he stays healthy and the Rams offense clicks, he could return to #1 again (personally, I don't think so).Holmes? Was #1 last year, is in a potent offense, but there are no other huge offensive players in KC (partly because Holmes was such a big piece of the offense). Gonzalez is still a great TE, but his numbers are nowhere near what they once were.Deuce? There are other weapons in N.O. provided Brooks' shoulder is healthy. Based on other offensive threats, I'd rate him higher than LT/RW. Still, his schedule is tough.Alexander? Based on the criteria, Alexander may be the most likely candidate. If Hasselbeck picks up where he left off, the Seahawks could have the strongest offenses in the league. With two 1,000 yard receivers, Alexander probably has the same support as Faulk does. And he has proven he can score a lot of TD.James? I know he is not normally included in the "Big 7" in the first tier of RB, but he does seem to meet the "big offense" and HOF support label. Manning and Harrison are consistently top producers. Based on the grading criteria only, James has to be included.Based on supporting offensive players ONLY, I would rate them:FaulkAlexanderJamesDeuceHolmesPortisLTRW
First of all, I'm willing to bet money that Portis won't average 5+ YPC for the season again. You also forget that talent-wise offensively, San Diego has gotten much better this season, whereas Denver has pretty much stood pat AT BEST.What's the big deal with ANderson being an UDFA? Davis was a 6th rounder and you called him a stud. And according to standard scoring, Portis was not a top 3 back last season... a little objectivity would lend you more credibility.I don't see why you're making such a big deal about the per game YPC. Tomlinson had 6 games of 5+ YPC. Portis had 8. THe fact that Denver was 4th in the league in run D and San Diego was 11th and that they had to play each other twice, makes the difference pretty negligible IMO. The great thing about portis is that since he is on a good passing team is that he rarely faced 8 man fronts. To conclude he's the "better" NFL RB is a reach.
Chase, I hate when you make me do this, but I have to pull out the BS meter here. There's a hall of famer, and pretty good RB named Walter Payton who never played on a "great" offense, but still manage to hold the career record rushing until last year. Put the homerism aside. I think the Dolphin O should be better based on 2 things: 1)Year 2 with Norv's system and 2) A better backup QB than Lucas....As for this debate, I agree with all the above comments about depth in the draft. My top 4 today are LT, RW, Faulk, and Portis. LT is one because he was great with a mediocre line last year, and should improve. Rw 2 because Jaime Nails hasn't lined up to play Guard again just yet. Marshall for the O line in St. Lou and his last 6 game schedule, and finally ClinPor for his PO-tential. Second year backs are something to be concerned about. Second year backs crying about their contract with aging/new starters at the skill positions worry me a bit more. That's why Portis falls to 4 in my rankings.Gator
:rotflmao: My rankings...I'm stupid, too...LDTClintMarshallRWSADeuceHenryGreen
you said:
i said: MY BOLDS
sorry if it was unclear.i'm still waiting for someone to address this fact......
as to my bold assertion that LT should not be considred #1, headlines move papers. i just wanted to get a healthy discussion going.
Good point.
But, I'm here because we do our "post positions" tonight.Intoxicating.I want #4...
You yourself called Davis (6th rounder) a stud, yet it's somehow 'ludicrous' to compare an UDFA (anderson) to a "top 3" back (portis)?How about comparing Holmes to Portis, is that ridiculous as well?
I don't see why Tomlinson can't improve on those numbers. He did that last year with a first year QB and a very young O-Line (including two rookie starters) and a new Head Coach and offensive coordinator. Both Brees and the O-Line should get better with another year under their belt and they've added David Boston and Lorenzo Neal. I think his YPC should improve considerably this year.
please stop. you are making my head hurt. i'm not even sure what you are arguing with me about at this point.just call me an idiot or something and move on.oh, but before you do i'd still like to see you address the point you continue to sidestep........
Says the man with the tomlinson avatar........
switz.....
How is it unlikely he will score LESS TDs staring MORE games???
this i'd agree with more. still, he's shown nothing & nothing has happened in DEN (plummer being decrease, improvement, lateral, is another debate) to indicate his YPC should drop significantly. you're assuming just as much as me.
well you are basically making the opposite assumptions of me but that is OK??? it is extremely unlikely that LT will not improve on 370 carries and 79 catches? i don't think it is.
Emmitt had 11 and 12 TDs his first 2 years, I guess you could have said the same about him and not having big TD #s, etc. etc.... until he put up 18 , 21, and 25 TDs in the next 4 years.The people that think Tomlinson has already hit his ceiling must think the San Diego offense is incapable of improving and that the Denver offense will always be good. It'd help to use a little foresight every now and then.Think about it, if Denver had signed Boston and Neal, and SD got plummer instead I'm sure the portis-lovers would be up in arms all over this board...
If anyone will offer even odds, I'll happily bet that LT will improve his YPC this season. You should see an entirely different Charger offense with more 3-WR sets (taking a linebacker out of the box), and you should see defenses playing further off the ball against the Chargers in general. Also, Lorenzo Neal can clear a linebacker out of the hole a lot better than McCrary could.
Maybe when Tomlinson's Chargers play in their first playoff game we can start comparing him to Emmitt.
I misread your post and mistook Edge for portis.Regardless, why is comparing Anderson (UDFA) to Edge (top 3 back) an "extreme"? How does it NOT apply to your comparison?
I would actually expect LT to get over 100 receptions this year. Everything I hear from SD says they want to spread him out in certain situations, get him more involved in the passing game downfield, etc.Carries, I expect to be about the same.YPC I expect to dramatically increase.I would not at all be surprised if Portis ended the seaosn as the #1 back, but I would equally benot surprised if LT did.As for Portis - anyone remember Corey Dillon and Shaun Alexander? Just because Portis excelled in 12 games last year does not mean he'll improve on those numbers this year. It IS possible to have your TDs drop while playing more. It IS possible to have your YPC drop while playing more.Hey I have both on my dynasty team, so I'm pretty happy, but the premise of this post is what I disagree with.
Your not going to find talk like this in San Diego. Whatsmore, I know I read somewhere about giving Anderson carries at the goalline, if anyone has the link please post it. If Portis loses goalline touches he's a dead duck because most of his points came off TDs. Therein lies his problem, Portis's numbers last year were rather 1 dimensional compared to RW and LT. If his tds fall off its a disaster.
Why?Tomlinson's been compared to Emmitt since he came in the league.
it doesnt apply to my comparision bc i was looking at their per-game ypc not end of year. regardless, as far as comparing the players, anderson was an unknown who wasn't drafted who produced for one year when a series of injuries benefited him. at the time he was running behind the best O-line in football on one of the NFL's better offenses. saying he is a better RB than edge (who was a top 3 pick and performed like it out of the gate and played on one of the leagues best offenses) simply bc he had a slightly higher YPC is different from me comparing via game-to-game YPC a Day 1 RB who was drafted to become the starter to another top 3 RB.but i'm really through commenting on that. it honestly is making my tiny brain hurt.
If you think LT has the supporting cast Emmitt had when he scored 20+ TDs then by all means take LT #1. I don't.
1. Portis was an extremely effective GL runner converting 44% of his carries inside the 10 into TDs, 2nd only to Priest. I'm not sure why they would pull him. But obv. it would be bad if they did.2. Portis averaged more ypc than ricky & lt and scored about the same TDs as them, so wouldn't his game be LESS dependent on scoring TDs? But if any top back saw a steep decrease in TDs it would obviously affect his game.But i think Portis is in much better shape than the other two if his TDs tail off simply bc he was a yardage monster when he got the ball.
Whoa-LT and Ricky both had 2000+ yard seasons. Inherently that makes hem yardage monsters.How long is your memory. Don't you remember everyone saying this same thing about Alexander last year?
Two ahead of the concensus top-3?Unlucky, how could not divulge who they are?Please humor us... Faulk & Holmes? Older than their shelf life allows for top performanceMcAllister - maybe ifhe didn't get dinged all the timeEdge - I'll buy it, but most won'tcome on - share the wealth
