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LT2 should not be considered at #1 (1 Viewer)

Two ahead of the concensus top-3?
Holmes would have been the consensus #1 all along if not for the injury concerns. If those concerns are put to rest, I'd take Holmes over LT and Williams.Faulk is kind of in the same boat as Holmes, although with more mileage on him. When healthy, he's everything you could ask for.
 
Holmes would have been the consensus #1 all along if not for the injury concerns. If those concerns are put to rest, I'd take Holmes over LT and Williams.
I dunno - he may have been the concensus top pick - but how many years in a row can a guy be the #1?IMO even IF Holmes was healthy he's due for a big dropoff in performance. As for Faulk - come on, we all know he'll play 10-12 games and finish in the top 5-8 but never be the #1 performer again.
 
Quote from Schottenheimer today:

Q: Who do you see emerging as a leader on defense?

A: It is hard for me to say right now. I don’t think that anybody who was here had an opportunity to manifest leadership ability because of the presence of guys like Junior Seau and Rodney Harrison. Their roles were pretty well defined. Donnie Edwards would certainly be a guy like that. I think Jamal Williams has leadership ability. I know this; the guy who talks the talk and walks the walk is LaDainian Tomlinson. When you have the kind of season he had…and the off-season.

 
I don't have time to read this whole thing.Let's just say that I have TWO RBs ranked higher than Portis, LT2, and Ricky, and I feel 100% confident drafting either one.
Two ahead of the concensus top-3?Unlucky, how could not divulge who they are?Please humor us... Faulk & Holmes? Older than their shelf life allows for top performanceMcAllister - maybe ifhe didn't get dinged all the timeEdge - I'll buy it, but most won'tcome on - share the wealth
I think he meant: "I have 2 RB's ranked ahead of Portis: RW and LT."At least I hope that's what he meant. :eek:
 
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One could argue that if Priest Holmes' mother and father never met, Ricky would have been the top RB in FF last year. His 324 FPs was the sixth highest total the past five years. However, I'd say the fact that he was so good on such a bad offense makes it more likely that it was a fluke, than anything.
Chase, I hate when you make me do this, but I have to pull out the BS meter here. There's a hall of famer, and pretty good RB named Walter Payton who never played on a "great" offense, but still manage to hold the career record rushing until last year. Put the homerism aside. I think the Dolphin O should be better based on 2 things: 1)Year 2 with Norv's system and 2) A better backup QB than Lucas....As for this debate, I agree with all the above comments about depth in the draft. My top 4 today are LT, RW, Faulk, and Portis. LT is one because he was great with a mediocre line last year, and should improve. Rw 2 because Jaime Nails hasn't lined up to play Guard again just yet. Marshall for the O line in St. Lou and his last 6 game schedule, and finally ClinPor for his PO-tential. Second year backs are something to be concerned about. Second year backs crying about their contract with aging/new starters at the skill positions worry me a bit more. That's why Portis falls to 4 in my rankings.Gator
Payton doesn't really help your argument. Remember, RB stats from those years aren't the same as RB stats from now--it takes a lot more to be considered a top two or three RB. However, let's look at Payton's best years:Payton only had two truly dominant years (by today's FF standards)1977 - 22.01 FP/G1979 - 18.02 FP/GIn his best year ('77), Chicago was fourth in the league in total yards. Granted a lot of that was due to Payton, but he made the Bears a great offense.The following year, 1978, on a Bears team that was in the 20s offesnively, he wasn't nearly as impressive (just under 16 FP/G).79? Payton had a fantastic year, and the Bears were awful offensively. 1980? The 9th best year of his career, and he was held to just seven total touchdowns. In 1984, he had a great year (although he ranked fourth), but was on a bad offensive team. In 1985, he ranked fourth again--BUT, the Bears were a much better offensive team. They were second in points scored, sixth in yards. In '86, Payton dropped to under 15 PPG as the Bears offense fell off a little bit.I think you helped prove my point here--it's surely possible for a RB to have a great year on a bad offensive team--although it takes a great RB and some luck. However, it's not very easy to do it again.So as I said earlier, it was probably more of a fluke that Williams was able to do that. I think Ricky's a tremendous RB, he showed me quite a bit last year--but if the Miami offense stays mediocre AT BEST, he will NOT be the top RB in FF.
 
"LT2 should not be considered at #1". I'm assuming your were going for shock value with this statement, but it's still very amusing.You can talk about yds per carry all you want, but I'm only concerned with who will put up more fantasy points this coming year. Last year Tomlinson averaged 19.2 pts per game and Portis averaged 18.1 pts per game. Had Portis played full-time in those first few games, I have no doubt that he would have averaged more pts per game than Tomlinson. But considering the great offseason that the Chargers had and the stability that Tomlinson brings (it is possible that Portis "snuck up" on some teams and now teams know what to expect from him), I'd take Tomlinson with the first pick in any type of draft.

 
:boxing: Faulk is going to post big numbers this season. Rams have a much better OL. But they do need Pace to get in camp. So, all the hype considering the #1; lets talk about this after 8 games.could be anyone of theRB's that where mention. Faulk has not been what is listed a 'home run' guy. It is the type of offense. GO RAMS :boxing:
 
This comparison to Emmitt as both of them being "just good" is ludicrous. As Emmitt's detractors (wrongly) always tell us, Emmitt was a good RB with a great offensive line, and it was that offensive line that made him the all-time leading rusher.On the other hand, Tomlinson plays behind one of the worst 5 or 10 offensive lines in the NFL. That's the mark of a great RB -- below average blocking and he still finds a way to make the plays. Portis, on the other hand, was running behind one of the top 5 run-blocking units.Come to think of it, maybe it's PORTIS who is alot like Emmitt!!! Maybe it's PORTIS who is merely a good RB behind a great line. This comparison appears much more supportable than the Tomlinson-Emmitt comparison. Put Portis behind San Diego's line and put Tomlinson behind Denver's line and see what happens. I'd bet that Tomlinson wouldn't even look back to see Portis getting scraped off the field.Blaming Tomlinson's ypc on his lack of breakaway ability was clearly an instance of speaking without the assistance of your brain. His natural abilities are without question. If one of those two RBs is a "product of the system," it is much more likely to be Portis.

 
This comparison to Emmitt as both of them being "just good" is ludicrous. As Emmitt's detractors (wrongly) always tell us, Emmitt was a good RB with a great offensive line, and it was that offensive line that made him the all-time leading rusher.On the other hand, Tomlinson plays behind one of the worst 5 or 10 offensive lines in the NFL. That's the mark of a great RB -- below average blocking and he still finds a way to make the plays. Portis, on the other hand, was running behind one of the top 5 run-blocking units.Come to think of it, maybe it's PORTIS who is alot like Emmitt!!! Maybe it's PORTIS who is merely a good RB behind a great line. This comparison appears much more supportable than the Tomlinson-Emmitt comparison. Put Portis behind San Diego's line and put Tomlinson behind Denver's line and see what happens. I'd bet that Tomlinson wouldn't even look back to see Portis getting scraped off the field.Blaming Tomlinson's ypc on his lack of breakaway ability was clearly an instance of speaking without the assistance of your brain. His natural abilities are without question. If one of those two RBs is a "product of the system," it is much more likely to be Portis.
Nice post :thumbup:
 
Tomlinson's YPC went from 3.6 to 4.5 in one season. If he could improve by almost a full yard, why wouldn't there be more room for improvement? His yards per reception is only 6.2 (both seasons). It seems like there could be room for improvement there as well, meaning Tomlinson could put up more points (including more TDs) with fewer touches. I am wondering why, if Ricky Williams will supposedly be handicapped by a poor offense, that caveat couldn't apply to LT as well.

 
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I believe Portis is the best running back in the NFL. I watched the Denver vs. Kansas City Game last year in week 14 and he totally had way more skillz than Preist. His moves were just so fluent and he was blazing fast. I have never seen a performance like that by a rookie before.He won me my fantasy chamionship game last year by blasting out 34 points. I don't think LT is gonna score 34 against PITTSBURGH (number 1 against the run) in the championship game this year. I'm a Pittsburgh fan and I'm tellin you LT2 is gonna lose you your championship game cause he is gonna be shut down in week 16. Mark it Down!

 
I believe Portis is the best running back in the NFL. I watched the Denver vs. Kansas City Game last year in week 14 and he totally had way more skillz than Preist. His moves were just so fluent and he was blazing fast. I have never seen a performance like that by a rookie before.He won me my fantasy chamionship game last year by blasting out 34 points. I don't think LT is gonna score 34 against PITTSBURGH (number 1 against the run) in the championship game this year.
First, the Denver defense only allowed 3.9 yards per carry against them last year while the KC defense allowed a mighty 4.8 yards per carry. So that might have had some impact on the "skillz" that they each showed.And when looking at a RB's playoff schedule, I usually put more weight on who that RB is going against in weeks 14 and 15 rather than week 16. There's no point in looking at who they're going against in your championship game if you don't get there first. In week 14 LT has the Lions and in week 15 LT has the Packers in SD. I'll take those matchups.
 
It's just a hypothesis that I just now thought of, but there's little argument against history--the top RB in FF comes from the top scoring teams. The high powered offense. The explosive teams. They usually have a great QB too--Warner, Elway, Aikman were obviously playing like HOF QBs when their RBs were the best FF had to offer.
What did Holmes, Faulk, Davis, Emmitt have in common? They were on offenses that were much, much better than either San Diego or Miami.
With all the comparisons to Emmitt, Aikman, and the Cowboys offense, I figured some actual stats should be brought in. Aikman was not a great quarterback (by FF standards, at least). Aikman was a good quarterback with excellent decision making and leadership ability. I don't really see how anyone could be really scared by the Dallas passing game when Aikman was at the helm. Aikman NEVER passed for more than 3500 yards. In fact, his best season was in 1992 where he got 3445 yards and 23 td's. That was also the ONLY season where Aikman threw for 20 or more touchdowns. In Brees' first year starting, he threw for nearly 3300 yards, 17tds, and 16 ints. In Aikmans first full year, he threw for 2600 yards, 11 tds, and 18 ints. San Diego also had more total offense than Dallas in Aikmans first full year. The total offensive numbers are also in SD's favor:
Code:
2002 SD:            |---------- PASSING -----------||----- RUSHING -----|  TOTAL               CMP  ATT   YD    YPA   TD INT  ATT   YD    YPA  TD     YD                 324  538  3368   6.26  17  16  466  2137  4.59  19   55051990 Dallas:            |---------- PASSING -----------||----- RUSHING -----|  TOTAL               CMP  ATT   YD    YPA   TD INT  ATT   YD    YPA  TD     YD                 254  475  2898   6.10  12  24  393  1500  3.82  13   43981991 Dallas:            |---------- PASSING -----------||----- RUSHING -----|  TOTAL               CMP  ATT   YD    YPA   TD INT  ATT   YD    YPA  TD     YD                 305  500  3663   7.33  16  12  433  1711  3.95  15   5374
In 1990 was Emmitt's rookie year and Aikman's first year of really being the starter. If you compare Emmitt's second year (Aikman's third) and LT's second year (Brees' second), you'll see that the Charger offense was MORE potent than Dallas' offense. In fact, Brees' first year of starting was significantly better than Aikman's first. Tomlinson's second year was slightly better than Emmitt's second year and when you factor in recieving, it Tomlinson pulls away a bit more. So, if Tomlinson continues to be compared to Emmitt after his third year is over because his stats are close to Emmitt's, I'll be quite happy to take the 2000+ total yards and 19 tds. Oh, and can we put this crap about the SD offense not being the equal of the vaunted Dallas offense to rest?
 
I'm not a Tomlinson or San Diego partisan by any means. I just expect intellectual honesty and sound logic. And some of these posts are infuriating not because they bash LT2, but because they simply make no logical sense whatsoever.First, to thedude:

I believe Portis is the best running back in the NFL. I watched the Denver vs. Kansas City Game last year in week 14 and he totally had way more skillz than Preist. His moves were just so fluent and he was blazing fast. I have never seen a performance like that by a rookie before.He won me my fantasy chamionship game last year by blasting out 34 points. I don't think LT is gonna score 34 against PITTSBURGH (number 1 against the run) in the championship game this year. I'm a Pittsburgh fan and I'm tellin you LT2 is gonna lose you your championship game cause he is gonna be shut down in week 16. Mark it Down!
The flaw in this argument is so glaring I have to put SUNGLASSES on to read it. :cool: You're basing your ranking of Portis among NFL RBs based on one game against the Chiefs' defense of 2002???? Last year's KC defense was about the closest thing to a non-contact drill you could find in the regular season. The Broncos' D, on the other hand, was really tough against the run, holding rushers like Ricky to under 50 yards.Second, if you need 34 points from your RB to win your championship, then you don't deserve to be in the championship in the first place. Last year Tomlinson only got me 12 points in my championship game, but I still won because I don't depend on any one single player to win.
 
It's just a hypothesis that I just now thought of, but there's little argument against history--the top RB in FF comes from the top scoring teams. The high powered offense. The explosive teams. They usually have a great QB too--Warner, Elway, Aikman were obviously playing like HOF QBs when their RBs were the best FF had to offer.
With all the comparisons to Emmitt, Aikman, and the Cowboys offense, I figured some actual stats should be brought in. Aikman was not a great quarterback (by FF standards, at least). Aikman was a good quarterback with excellent decision making and leadership ability. I don't really see how anyone could be really scared by the Dallas passing game when Aikman was at the helm. Aikman NEVER passed for more than 3500 yards. In fact, his best season was in 1992 where he got 3445 yards and 23 td's. That was also the ONLY season where Aikman threw for 20 or more touchdowns. In Brees' first year starting, he threw for nearly 3300 yards, 17tds, and 16 ints. In Aikmans first full year, he threw for 2600 yards, 11 tds, and 18 ints. San Diego also had more total offense than Dallas in Aikmans first full year. The total offensive numbers are also in SD's favor:
Code:
2002 SD:            |---------- PASSING -----------||----- RUSHING -----|  TOTAL               CMP  ATT   YD    YPA   TD INT  ATT   YD    YPA  TD     YD                 324  538  3368   6.26  17  16  466  2137  4.59  19   55051990 Dallas:            |---------- PASSING -----------||----- RUSHING -----|  TOTAL               CMP  ATT   YD    YPA   TD INT  ATT   YD    YPA  TD     YD                 254  475  2898   6.10  12  24  393  1500  3.82  13   43981991 Dallas:            |---------- PASSING -----------||----- RUSHING -----|  TOTAL               CMP  ATT   YD    YPA   TD INT  ATT   YD    YPA  TD     YD                 305  500  3663   7.33  16  12  433  1711  3.95  15   5374
In 1990 was Emmitt's rookie year and Aikman's first year of really being the starter. If you compare Emmitt's second year (Aikman's third) and LT's second year (Brees' second), you'll see that the Charger offense was MORE potent than Dallas' offense. In fact, Brees' first year of starting was significantly better than Aikman's first. Tomlinson's second year was slightly better than Emmitt's second year and when you factor in recieving, it Tomlinson pulls away a bit more. So, if Tomlinson continues to be compared to Emmitt after his third year is over because his stats are close to Emmitt's, I'll be quite happy to take the 2000+ total yards and 19 tds. Oh, and can we put this crap about the SD offense not being the equal of the vaunted Dallas offense to rest?
Those are interesting points, but skewed. Your talking about the Dal. offense pre Super Bowl yrs. when they mearly had training wheels on. If you guys think its comical to say LT shouldn't be considered at #1. I say its more comical to say that the SD offense is better than that Dal. one which won 3 Superbowls. :rotflmao:
 
I say its more comical to say that the SD offense is better than that Dal. one which won 3 Superbowls.
That isn't AT ALL what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that when you compare Brees' first year of starting to Aikman's first year of starting, Brees has better numbers. When you compare LT's second year starting to Emmitt's, LT's numbers are better. When you compare the building years of the Cowboys (1990-1991) and last year of the Chargers (obviously a building year) and take into account the similarities between them (i.e. the fact that Aikman and Emmitt were drafted so closely together by a team on the upswing) that the Chargers numbers are better than those of the Cowboys. Even if you look at the 1992 and 1993 Super Bowl champion Cowboys, their total offense was only about 200 yards better than the 2002 Chargers.
Code:
1992 Cowboys            |---------- PASSING -----------||----- RUSHING -----|  TOTAL               CMP  ATT   YD    YPA   TD INT  ATT   YD    YPA  TD     YD                 314  491  3597   7.33  23  15  500  2121  4.24  20   5718 1993 Cowboys           |---------- PASSING -----------||----- RUSHING -----|  TOTAL               CMP  ATT   YD    YPA   TD INT  ATT   YD    YPA  TD     YD                 317  475  3617   7.61  18   6  490  2161  4.41  20   5778
With the addition of Boston and Neal, the general upgrades in the offensive line, and the players familiarity with Schottenheimers system, I don't think it is too difficult to think the SD will have better offensive production in the next two years than they did in 2002. I dont think it is a big stretch for them to produce an additional 250-300 yards (or about 15 yards per game) than they did in 2002. Again, I'm just comparing two teams that have some similarities.
 
Again, I'm just comparing two teams that have some similarities.
Don't forget Norv Turner's offense (as run by Cam Cameron in SD) and Hudson Houck's offensive line (as run by Hudson Houck in SD).
 
jeezus we're still talkin' about this?Every year somebody always tries to dig up dirt on the majority consensus #1 because either he's not on their roster and they need some way of calming their inferiority complex or they're just starved for attention. The simple reason he's #1 is because out of the top 5 backs from last season, he's the only one whose team had significantly upgraded their offensive personnel in the off-season. Considering training camp JUST started, that's pretty much all we have to go on.So quit tryin' to buck the trend cuz we've already been there done that... next topic please.

 
92 Cowboys - 4th in total yards; 2nd in total points93 Cowboys - 4th in total yards; 2nd in total points02 Chargers - 16th in total yards, 20th in total pointsNow see the difference? That's the best way to compare across eras.

 
92 Cowboys - 4th in total yards; 2nd in total points93 Cowboys - 4th in total yards; 2nd in total points02 Chargers - 16th in total yards, 20th in total pointsNow see the difference? That's the best way to compare across eras.
Couldn't agree more. :thumbup: I see your point now that you have clarified it evilhomer. But when comparing those numbers it would be better to compare realative to their peers (or NFL rank) like stuart has done. I'm not tryin to down your statement, as SD could very well gell this year into a powerful scoring team. I just say lets wait n see. They still have many questions: will Boston even be able to play, O-line issues, and Brees many have sim. #s to Aikman, but is certainly not the same quality of QB.
 
The flaw in this argument is so glaring I have to put SUNGLASSES on to read it. You're basing your ranking of Portis among NFL RBs based on one game against the Chiefs' defense of 2002???? Last year's KC defense was about the closest thing to a non-contact drill you could find in the regular season. The Broncos' D, on the other hand, was really tough against the run, holding rushers like Ricky to under 50 yards.Second, if you need 34 points from your RB to win your championship, then you don't deserve to be in the championship in the first place. Last year Tomlinson only got me 12 points in my championship game, but I still won because I don't depend on any one single player to win.
That one game was just an example. I have NFL Sunday Ticket and my buddy is a Denver fan. Pittsburgh always plays early games and then I watch West Coast games or late games of other teams including Denver. Lets just say I've seen enough to know I think he is the best in the league. I don't need your defensive stats to tell me that there is a flaw in my OPIONION. If you wanna bring up stats, just look at YPC. I'm sure you will find a way to twist that stat around so nevermind.A last note: Who are you to tell me I don't deserve to make the championship game. I didn't need all 34 to win it, but I can appreciate a nice cushion, HOMER.
 
If you look at all the options for #1, I can't see how anyone would not consider LT as #1. Arguably Portis is a Candidate even Faulk.If you look at Denver and their history, how many of the RB's in Denver, who had the first year starting, and they tore up the NFL, did amazingly well the next year? Gary? Anderson? Davis did, but that was with Elway and it was quite a few years back.I am not saying base your judgement on that, in fact it is nothing more then a comment, but once its a fluke twice its a pattern. Just a thought.Also, I am a firm beleiver that the most important thing for an Offensive line is Continuity, the "gel" factor. Get marginal offensive lineman together for a long time and as a whole they would out perform a better talented Line that was just put together.San Diego's line is going into their 3rd year together with a limited few changes, if any. Maybe I am wrong, I havent read much about HUGE additions to the line other then Macintosh... I don't know enough about Page but I thought he was old. I could be wrong. Brees has progressed well IMO, and the addition to Boston will at least give the opposing defenses something else to think about then LT run to right, LT run to left and LT catch in the flat.If I had #1, I would not hesitate to take LT. If I had #2, I would not hesitate to take Portis, because I beleive most drafts will have LT go first.Just my take.

 
Got him #1 in my dynasty league and have no regrets. It should be an interesting pre-season debate next year. Who do you take first in a re-draft.....Holmes, LT2 or Portis? Hmmmmm......

 
Got him #1 in my dynasty league and have no regrets. It should be an interesting pre-season debate next year. Who do you take first in a re-draft.....Holmes, LT2 or Portis? Hmmmmm......
Waiting for this thread to ressurect next year.... ;)
 

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