Making A Murderer (Netflix) (Spoilers) (1 Viewer)

[shuke]

He did it.  Brendan was there for at least part of it.  

Agreed.  But Dassey still deserves competent representation, and I don’t think he got it.  He should be out by now.  

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

There are also steps that don't make logical sense if Avery did murder Halbach.  He was uniquely capable of crushing the vehicle and junking it in a way no other killer could ever dream of.  Why just let the murder vehicle sit there with a tree branch covering it when he could toss it in the machine and rip it apart?  

not to mention the smelter on the property that could have burned bones/body parts into unrecognizable nothing

 

[shuke]

no one says there has to be a vast conspiracy theory. not sure why you're hung up on this.

What thread have you been reading?

The vast majority of people who watch the documentary don’t come away saying that Avery probably did it but there was too much reasonable doubt.  They come away claiming conspiracy and grasping any straw they can find. 

 

[shuke]

You keep adding numerous improbable details that aren't necessary.

Here's a simple story. (It's been a long time since I saw the documentary, so maybe my story is inconsistent with some facts.) The boyfriend or the brother or someone else murdered Teresa Halbach and incinerated her body a few miles away in the quarry. They dumped the remains on Avery's property. They might have moved her car to Avery's property (and left the key in it).

The cops think that Avery might have killed her; they're not sure, but either way, he's a convenient suspect that will allow them to close the case and also thwart his civil suit against the department. So maybe the police found her car somewhere and moved it to Avery's property. Or maybe they found it on the property with the key in it. They then planted the key in his dwelling. (This would have been extremely simple if they had the key to begin with ... and having the key would also help them move the car there.) Maybe they planted some of his blood on the car -- that part always seemed fairly doubtful to me, but who knows?

There doesn't have to be any conspiracy between the murderer and the cops. There really only has to be one or two cops in on the framing, and he or they might well have thought that Avery was guilty anyway. (Cops do frame guilty suspects sometimes.) The cops didn't have to do the murdering themselves, or approve of the murdering, or knowingly let a murderer get away.

Furley> hey

 

[shuke]

OJ is the first that comes to mind. 

Oh boy 

 

[shuke]

There are also steps that don't make logical sense if Avery did murder Halbach.  He was uniquely capable of crushing the vehicle and junking it in a way no other killer could ever dream of.  Why just let the murder vehicle sit there with a tree branch covering it when he could toss it in the machine and rip it apart?  

Your mistake is assuming people capable of brutal murder are of sound mind. 

 

[shuke]

and if Avery did it, I have serious doubt as to whether Brandon Dassey was involved

I think only the cleanup.  Not in the murder.  

 

[shuke]

Throw in that he supposedly killed her at his home/garage....why drive the body around only to torch it less than 100 feet from his front door?

Panic. 

 

[ren hoek]

Your mistake is assuming people capable of brutal murder are of sound mind. 

That's another hangup with the guilty theory.  It assumes he was too dumb to use the equipment he made a living with, yet enough of a criminal mastermind to wipe virtually every trace of blood/DNA from the scene of a grisly murder.  

 

[shuke]

That's another hangup with the guilty theory.  It assumes he was too dumb to use the equipment he made a living with, yet enough of a criminal mastermind to wipe virtually every trace of blood/DNA from the scene of a grisly murder.  

Why do we think it was a “grisly” murder? He shot her on the floor of the garage close range with a rifle and scrubbed the floor in bleach.  

 

[ren hoek]

Why do we think it was a “grisly” murder? He shot her on the floor of the garage close range with a rifle and scrubbed the floor in bleach.  

Wasn't she tied up to the bed as some sort of rape fantasy per Dassey's fake confession?  No blood, hairs, dna? 

 

[Stinkin Ref]

Wasn't she tied up to the bed as some sort of rape fantasy per Dassey's fake confession?  No blood, hairs, dna? 

Yes but they shot her in the garage.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

For those wondering why he didn’t smash cars and do a better job of disposing the remains....etc....we aren’t talking about a couple Einsteins here....and any small lead would have led to a smashed car being discovered on the property at some point....probably one of the first places they look if they don’t find it where it was....I could see him panicking and not reallly having the time and feeling comfortable to go smash it....under the cover of darkness or whatever....he probbaly knew he was being watched pretty quick when word got out she was missing, considering she was just there....

 

[Stinkin Ref]

Throw in that he supposedly killed her at his home/garage....why drive the body around only to torch it less than 100 feet from his front door?

Once she was shot in the garage probably on a tarp or something of some sort, she was probbaly put into her car (which was probably in the garage being hidden while they raped her in the house). They put her in the car for easier transport to the fire pit or whatever instead of carrying her, etc. Straight out of car into fire wrapped in the tarp. Then went and tried to hide the car the best they could at the time considering they had some activity going with the fire, etc. 

 

[Stinkin Ref]

Why do we think it was a “grisly” murder? He shot her on the floor of the garage close range with a rifle and scrubbed the floor in bleach.  

I think she was probably on a large tarp or sheets or blankets or something when she was shot so as not to have blood spatter on garage floor, etc. that would need cleaning.  Then rolled up in that tarp and placed in her car for a quick transport to the fire which explain the lack of DNA in garage, and in car, except for Avery’s blood on the ignition from the cut on his hand.

 

[shuke]

Wasn't she tied up to the bed as some sort of rape fantasy per Dassey's fake confession?  No blood, hairs, dna? 

So wait, the same peoople who want to throw out anything Dassey said during the confession now want to use it to prove Avery was framed?

You can’t have it both ways. 

 

[Stinkin Ref]

Murderers like having someone else blamed for their murder. Not sure why this seems like something really out there to you. If the murderer knew she was going to Avery's property, yes that would be an opportunity, given Avery would not get any benefit of the doubt from a police department he was suing. If you're looking for a better opportunity than that one to come along, you'll be waiting a long while. . 

Not sure how that's luck. Unless you think he had two agendas: 1) kill her; and 2) Frame Avery. It's more like he just had one agenda: 1) kill her. When he heard she was going to Avery's property, that was an opportunity to do it and blame someone else for it. Opportunity usually comes along eventually. It doesn't take luck. 

How was it hard?

If “somebody else” wanted her dead that bad, trying to frame Avery seems awful risky by hiding her car on his property, sneaking her remains into the fire pit and the other area by the house, and somehow getting the key into his bedroom. That seems pretty risky.  And if you were the murderer, why take the risk of trying to put the key in the house, when it wouldn’t have made a difference if the key was ever even found?  The car on the property and the remains would surely be enough. The key could have been thrown in a river, left in the car, whatever, it wouldn’t have mattered.

 

[skillz]

If you want realistic insight into criminal defense, “the staircase” is very good. 

I just started watching this and see that Michael Nifong is an assistant DA on the prosecution.  This isn’t going to end well for Peterson.  

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

So wait, the same peoople who want to throw out anything Dassey said during the confession now want to use it to prove Avery was framed?

You can’t have it both ways. 

except that both men ended up guilty from essentially 2 different versions of what happened 

 

[mr. furley]

What thread have you been reading?

The vast majority of people who watch the documentary don’t come away saying that Avery probably did it but there was too much reasonable doubt.  They come away claiming conspiracy and grasping any straw they can find. 

that's a shame

maybe it's because the original trial and coverage played out live for me and then MAM was just a recap with a little more detail/background? not sure.

 

[mr. furley]

Furley> hey

@Maurile Tremblay is actually just a @mr furley hobby account

 

[mr. furley]

For those wondering why he didn’t smash cars and do a better job of disposing the remains....etc....we aren’t talking about a couple Einsteins here....and any small lead would have led to a smashed car being discovered on the property at some point....probably one of the first places they look if they don’t find it where it was....I could see him panicking and not reallly having the time and feeling comfortable to go smash it....under the cover of darkness or whatever....he probbaly knew he was being watched pretty quick when word got out she was missing, considering she was just there....

someone on reddit covered the "why didn't he crush the car" theory in depth

i'll try to find it again

eta: that was easy -  https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/4076zm/how_a_salvage_yard_car_crusher_works_and_why_it/

(haven't re-read it yet)

etaa: link to the subreddit filtered by "crusher" - https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/search?q=crusher&restrict_sr=on

 

[Bull Dozier]

I think she was probably on a large tarp or sheets or blankets or something when she was shot so as not to have blood spatter on garage floor, etc. that would need cleaning.  Then rolled up in that tarp and placed in her car for a quick transport to the fire which explain the lack of DNA in garage, and in car, except for Avery’s blood on the ignition from the cut on his hand.

How you could watch the series and come away thinking Avery was a criminal mastermind capable of removing all of the evidence (other than some drops located in contact points) I don't know.  I'm not saying he's a saint and has never done anything wrong, but to think he can beat current crime scene detection for a grizzly murder I find highly unlikely.  Two of the cops are clearly corrupt.  The prosecutor was corrupt and a d-bag.  The fact that there are multiple organizations around the contry committed to working on getting wrongly convicted individuals out of jail help explain why a coverup by the police of an indivudual who is currently suing the city for being wrongly convicted is not so far fetched.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

How you could watch the series and come away thinking Avery was a criminal mastermind capable of removing all of the evidence (other than some drops located in contact points) I don't know.  I'm not saying he's a saint and has never done anything wrong, but to think he can beat current crime scene detection for a grizzly murder I find highly unlikely.  Two of the cops are clearly corrupt.  The prosecutor was corrupt and a d-bag.  The fact that there are multiple organizations around the contry committed to working on getting wrongly convicted individuals out of jail help explain why a coverup by the police of an indivudual who is currently suing the city for being wrongly convicted is not so far fetched.

never said he was a criminal mastermind...far from it in fact...and he didn't remove all the evidence....he left the victims car on his lot, her key in his bedroom, her burnt remains in two different places on his property, blood from a cut on his finger on ignition of her vehicle, and he included another person (at some level) in it that could possibly help prove that he was guilty....the only borderline mastermind piece of work he did and it actually seems like a no brainer, was probably using tarps or something in every interaction with her in the bedroom, in the garage, and to wrap her in, so as not to leave any of her DNA in those places....

Avery had some cars to sell, called for a photographer to come take some pictures for the magazine...unfortunately it happened to be this young lady...probably thought she was pretty....calls for her to come out again for "another car", when she shows up he is wrapped in a towel when he answers the door (intentional IMO, his weak attempt at flirting or thinking it would lead to some cheezy porno scene)...she comes out another time and then goes missing....kind of reminds me a little of Silence of the Lambs and how you "covet what you see"....I think he became infatuated with this young attractive female, it probably made him mad that the towel thing didn't work and he felt rejected...he had time to prepare for her next visit now under the concoction of infatuation and anger, and when he called for her to come out the last time, he knew exactly what he wanted...I believe he tied her up....tarps or something on the bed...moved her car into the garage to get it out of view....did whatever he wanted do with her....took her to the garage...shot her...put her in her car...drove her to fire pit...incinerated her body and anything she was wrapped in/evidence...went and just parked/hid the car cause he is in a hurry and panicking cause of body in fire...unfortunately she was probably unconscious for much of this so there may not have been much of a struggle when he was moving her from one place to the next....I am not sure of Dassey level of involvement, I think it could be all over the map from an active participant (also raping her, etc)...to just kind of being bullied and included in helping clean up/cover the tracks....it wouldn't surprise me if Avery involved him in some way to kind of have a "partner in crime" and the attitude of "you are also involved in this now, so you better help and you better have my back"...at some point Avery probably felt he had to include Dassey since Dassey was on the property and would have seen things anyway.....

 

[Bull Dozier]

never said he was a criminal mastermind...far from it in fact...and he didn't remove all the evidence....he left the victims car on his lot, her key in his bedroom, her burnt remains in two different places on his property, blood from a cut on his finger on ignition of her vehicle, and he included another person (at some level) in it that could possibly help prove that he was guilty....the only borderline mastermind piece of work he did and it actually seems like a no brainer, was probably using tarps or something in every interaction with her in the bedroom, in the garage, and to wrap her in, so as not to leave any of her DNA in those places....

Avery had some cars to sell, called for a photographer to come take some pictures for the magazine...unfortunately it happened to be this young lady...probably thought she was pretty....calls for her to come out again for "another car", when she shows up he is wrapped in a towel when he answers the door (intentional IMO, his weak attempt at flirting or thinking it would lead to some cheezy porno scene)...she comes comes out another time and then goes missing....kind of reminds me a little of Silence of the Lambs and how you "covet what you see"....I think he became infatuated with this young attractive female, it probably made him mad that the towel thing didn't work and he felt rejected...he had time to prepare for her next visit now under the concoction of infatuation and anger, and when he called for her to come out the last time, he knew exactly what he wanted...I believe he tied her up....tarps or something on the bed...moved her car into the garage to get it out of view....did whatever he wanted do with her....took her to the garage...shot her...put her in her car...drove her to fire pit...incinerated her body and anything she was wrapped in/evidence...went and just parked/hid the car cause he is in a hurry and panicking cause of body in fire...unfortunately she was probably unconscious for much of this so there may not have been much of a struggle when he was moving her from one place to the next....I am not sure of Dassey level of involvement, I think it could be all over the map from an active participant (also raping her, etc)...to just kind of being bullied and included in helping clean up/cover the tracks....it wouldn't surprise me if Avery involved him in some way to kind of have a "partner in crime" and the attitude of "you are also involved in this now, so you better help and you better have my back"...at some point Avery probably felt he had to include Dassey since Dassey was on the property and would have seen things anyway.....

I'm not interested in a back and forth as its been a while since I watched or read anything on the subject.  But, to the points in your first paragraph (this is all based on my memory, so maybe I don't remember everything right.  If I have something wrong, so be it);

• Left the victims car on his lot - this wasn't found on the first search.  They found it on a subsequent search (opens the possibility it was planted or moved there later, which wouldn't make sense if she never left the property).
  
• Key in the bedroom - I'm thoroughly convinced this was planted based on the questionable manner in which it was located.
  
• Burnt remains in two different locations - I don't remember the details here, where the second location was.  What I do remember is the prosecution contention that she was burned in the burn pit, but some forensic finding that it was impossible/implausible that could have been done.  Don't recall if that was a post trial test/findings, or something inadmisable during the trial.
  
• His blood in the vehicle - Persoanlly convinced this was planted.  Crime lab clearly in on it.
  

I very well might have some of the facts above wrong. Again it has been a long time.  However, after watching the documentary, which was clearly biased towards Avery, "reasonable doubt" was clearly established.

That said, it is possible he did it?  Sure.  I wouldn't bet my life either way, but in our criminal justice system, I don't think it is fair his and Dassey's life lost a coin flip, because based on the evidence shown there is no larger chance of that that he is guity.

 

[Politician Spock]

If “somebody else” wanted her dead that bad, trying to frame Avery seems awful risky by hiding her car on his property, sneaking her remains into the fire pit and the other area by the house, and somehow getting the key into his bedroom. That seems pretty risky.  And if you were the murderer, why take the risk of trying to put the key in the house, when it wouldn’t have made a difference if the key was ever even found?  The car on the property and the remains would surely be enough. The key could have been thrown in a river, left in the car, whatever, it wouldn’t have mattered.

It's pretty obvious the police planted the key in the house. 

 

[shuke]

 but to think he can beat current crime scene detection for a grizzly murder I find highly unlikely.  

What to you makes a murder “grizzly”?

 

[shuke]

• His blood in the vehicle - Persoanlly convinced this was planted.  Crime lab clearly in on it
  

Based on what?

 

[Bull Dozier]

What to you makes a murder “grizzly”?

Maybe I should have said "otherwise grizzly."  I was responding to the suggestion that she was shot in the garage, but Avery had put down a blanket or tarp to hide the blood.  This all seems unlikely.  Unless you want to believe he is a complete animal killing for the experience, this makes no sense.  How does he wrestle with her to get her lined up on the tarp to shoot her to contain the splatter?  If he has her subdued, why shoot her if he knows there will be blood spatter that he has to account for?  This makes no sense to me.

Based on what?

Again, it has been a long time since I saw this, so my recollection of the details aren't great.  My memory is that there was some shenanigans with the crime lab and the previously obtained blood sample, it having been open, and the crime labs tests for whatever chemical was in it that would have shown it from the previous sample were questionable.

Again, not going to the mat based on my memory of the details of this story, its been a while.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

Maybe I should have said "otherwise grizzly."  I was responding to the suggestion that she was shot in the garage, but Avery had put down a blanket or tarp to hide the blood.  This all seems unlikely.  Unless you want to believe he is a complete animal killing for the experience, this makes no sense.  How does he wrestle with her to get her lined up on the tarp to shoot her to contain the splatter?  If he has her subdued, why shoot her if he knows there will be blood spatter that he has to account for?  This makes no sense to me.

Why would it seem unlikely to put a person you are about to shoot on a tarp to try and contain the blood spatter to just the tarp and not the floor and surrounding area that you would have to clean up later?  It makes perfect sense and doesn't take a rocket scientist to think about it.  Shoot them on the tarp, contain the blood splatter to the tarped area.  Roll body up in tarp, dispose/burn.  No clean up needed. She was most likely subdued so there was no struggle. 

 

[Bull Dozier]

Why would it seem unlikely to put a person you are about to shoot on a tarp to try and contain the blood spatter to just the tarp and not the floor and surrounding area that you would have to clean up later?  It makes perfect sense and doesn't take a rocket scientist to think about it.  Shoot them on the tarp, contain the blood splatter to the tarped area.  Roll body up in tarp, dispose/burn.  No clean up needed. She was most likely subdued so there was no struggle. 

I don't have a murders mind, but my normal brain thinking is if they are already subdued, why am I killing her with a gun, where I have to account for spatter, gun shot residue, the bullet being found and matched to my gun, etc etc.  If you're shooting her and going one step forward considering the blood spatter, you're probably thinking about other consequences as well.  

 

[Stinkin Ref]

I don't have a murders mind, but my normal brain thinking is if they are already subdued, why am I killing her with a gun, where I have to account for spatter, gun shot residue, the bullet being found and matched to my gun, etc etc.  If you're shooting her and going one step forward considering the blood spatter, you're probably thinking about other consequences as well.  

I can't speak to why he chose to shoot her instead of some other option....just simply saying if he did (which is what is alleged in the documentary).....doing so on a tarp or something that helps contain the blood spatter makes perfectly simple sense....

 

[Bull Dozier]

I can't speak to why he chose to shoot her instead of some other option....just simply saying if he did (which is what is alleged in the documentary).....doing so on a tarp or something that helps contain the blood spatter makes perfectly simple sense....

Alleged by the prosecution, right?  Which means I give it zero credence. I certainly don't feel inclined to do mental gymnastics to see if something is reasonable just because that confirmed D bag suggests it happens.  Show me some proof first.  While it might be reasonable to think a murderer would put someone on a tarp to shoot them and protect the scene, it is also reasonable to think a gun shot could produce some spatter not captured in the tarp, but they went through the garage and found ZERO.

I just finished watching The Stairwell, so maybe my expectation of spatter is a little high.  I have no idea how much is produced with a gunshot (though I seem to remember it appeared she might have been shot in the head, which I would think would create a lot).  

 

[Stinkin Ref]

Alleged by the prosecution, right?  Which means I give it zero credence. I certainly don't feel inclined to do mental gymnastics to see if something is reasonable just because that confirmed D bag suggests it happens.  Show me some proof first.  While it might be reasonable to think a murderer would put someone on a tarp to shoot them and protect the scene, it is also reasonable to think a gun shot could produce some spatter not captured in the tarp, but they went through the garage and found ZERO.

I just finished watching The Stairwell, so maybe my expectation of spatter is a little high.  I have no idea how much is produced with a gunshot (though I seem to remember it appeared she might have been shot in the head, which I would think would create a lot).  

I believe that is what was presented by the prosecution because Dassey led them there in his confession.  I understand how everybody feels about Dassey's interrogation, but IIRC Dassey presented that as to how that went down and she was killed.  At the time all they had was burnt remains. It was not a scenario made up by the prosecution.  Dassey led them to her even being shot, (not sure they even knew that she was shot) first before being incinerated. Location (garage), weapon (22 rifle), who did it (Avery) etc. 

ETA...and IIRC they found a 22 shell casing in the garage.

 

[Bull Dozier]

I believe that is what was presented by the prosecution because Dassey led them there in his confession.  I understand how everybody feels about Dassey's interrogation, but IIRC Dassey presented that as to how that went down and she was killed.  At the time all they had was burnt remains. It was not a scenario made up by the prosecution.  Dassey led them to her even being shot, (not sure they even knew that she was shot) first before being incinerated. Location (garage), weapon (22 rifle), who did it (Avery) etc. 

ETA...and IIRC they found a 22 shell casing in the garage.

 The info insn't fresh enough in my mind to refute.  I formed some pretty strong opinions back when I watched it, but can't really back them up in a back and forth anymore.

 

[mr. furley]

i'd have to re-watch but my vague recollection of the interrogation was lots the cop saying "Brandon, this is how it happened.. here are the details.. you just need to tell us in your own words that this is what happened" and he would repeat what he was told

when asked to draw pictures or recall certain times, events, etc. he couldn't get them even remotely correct... at least when compared to the police and prosecution version of the events.

there was a lot of "coaching" and not a lot of extemporaneous recall.

 

[parrot]

I believe that is what was presented by the prosecution because Dassey led them there in his confession.  I understand how everybody feels about Dassey's interrogation, but IIRC Dassey presented that as to how that went down and she was killed.  At the time all they had was burnt remains. It was not a scenario made up by the prosecution.  Dassey led them to her even being shot, (not sure they even knew that she was shot) first before being incinerated. Location (garage), weapon (22 rifle), who did it (Avery) etc. 

ETA...and IIRC they found a 22 shell casing in the garage.

They found 11 casings in the garage.  They also found two bullet fragments.  One bullet fragment was matched to the make and model of Avery's .22.  This is the bullet fragment the show focuses on for the most part.  The second bullet fragment was matched specifically to Avery's gun - not just make and model.  This is also the fragment that had Halbach's DNA.  

They did know she had been shot, but did not know where or with what weapon IIRC.  

https://youtu.be/CClsscz5L78?t=4m

Wiegert:  All right, I'm just going to come out and ask you; who shot her in the head?

Brendan: He did.

Wiegert: Tell us about that then.  

Brendan:  He shot her with his .22.  

Making a Murderer conveniently cut off right before Brendan specifically identifies the weapon eventually determined to be the likely murder weapon.

 

[Bull Dozier]

They found 11 casings in the garage.  They also found two bullet fragments.  One bullet fragment was matched to the make and model of Avery's .22.  This is the bullet fragment the show focuses on for the most part.  The second bullet fragment was matched specifically to Avery's gun - not just make and model.  This is also the fragment that had Halbach's DNA.  

They did know she had been shot, but did not know where or with what weapon IIRC.  

https://youtu.be/CClsscz5L78?t=4m

Wiegert:  All right, I'm just going to come out and ask you; who shot her in the head?

Brendan: He did.

Wiegert: Tell us about that then.  

Brendan:  He shot her with his .22.  

Making a Murderer conveniently cut off right before Brendan specifically identifies the weapon eventually determined to be the likely murder weapon.

Are you/they suggesting they shot her 11 times in the garage?

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

I'd have to review my transcript nuggets on the shell casings and bullet frag matching, but there was definitely more to it than presented in the show. And it was definitely sketchy. Also, pretty sure it was never matched specifically to Avery's gun, but I've slept since I read all that. 

 

[parrot]

Are you/they suggesting they shot her 11 times in the garage?

No.  

 

[parrot]

I'd have to review my transcript nuggets on the shell casings and bullet frag matching, but there was definitely more to it than presented in the show. And it was definitely sketchy. Also, pretty sure it was never matched specifically to Avery's gun, but I've slept since I read all that. 

William Newhouse testimony:

A. In this case, I was able to be more specific. And, in fact, because of markings on the bullet in State's Exhibit 277, I was able to conclude that this bullet had been fired from this specific gun.





Q. All right. So Exhibit 277 had been fired from Exhibit 247?





A. Yes, that's correct.

 

[Bull Dozier]

No.  

So why does finding casings at all mean anything?

 

[parrot]

So why does finding casings at all mean anything?

I didn't say it means anything necessarily.  Just pointing out the facts.  

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

William Newhouse testimony:

A. In this case, I was able to be more specific. And, in fact, because of markings on the bullet in State's Exhibit 277, I was able to conclude that this bullet had been fired from this specific gun.

Q. All right. So Exhibit 277 had been fired from Exhibit 247?

A. Yes, that's correct.

Fair enough. Can't recall for sure, but I believe they argued the way in which he concluded that.

 

[mr. furley]

bullet fired from a gun <> proof that a specific person fired said gun

 

[parrot]

bullet fired from a gun <> proof that a specific person fired said gun

True, it's not "proof".  I's just another piece of compelling evidence pointing at Steven Avery as the most likely killer that has to be explained away using the various conspiracy, evidence-planting, frame up theories; none of which there is any "proof" of, by the way.   

 

[Bull Dozier]

True, it's not "proof".  I's just another piece of compelling evidence pointing at Steven Avery as the most likely killer that has to be explained away using the various conspiracy, evidence-planting, frame up theories; none of which there is any "proof" of, by the way.   

Hardly "compelling." 

 

[parrot]

Hardly "compelling." 

Yep, a bullet with the victim's DNA on it, fired from the gun in his possession, found in his garage, right next to where the body was burned, isn't compelling.  

 

[Bull Dozier]

Yep, a bullet with the victim's DNA on it, fired from the gun in his possession, found in his garage, right next to where the body was burned, isn't compelling.  

I'll retract that statement.  I missed that one case had her DNA on it.  

 

[parrot]

I'll retract that statement.  I missed that one case had her DNA on it.  

Fair enough.  Hope I wasn't too snarky.