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Making A Murderer (Netflix) (Spoilers) (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter The Flying Elvis
- Start date
Doubledown1313
Footballguy
For what it's worth, here in Manitowoc I've never heard anyone say they thought he is innocent.
bucksoh
Footballguy
Is this for his first false imprisonment or his second? Also did you watch mam and how do you feel about it?
Good documentary with SA's current lawyer(Zellner) called Dream/Killer
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4504438/
I had to rent it on Amazon but I thought it was worth it. I get why the pro-innocent crowed was so excited when she decided to take on his case now. Her tweets seemed like posturing before, but I kind of give them a little more weight after seeing her in action.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4504438/
I had to rent it on Amazon but I thought it was worth it. I get why the pro-innocent crowed was so excited when she decided to take on his case now. Her tweets seemed like posturing before, but I kind of give them a little more weight after seeing her in action.
Politician Spock
Footballguy
chauncey
Footballguy
Unrelated to the case, how is life in Manitowoc? I spent a summer in college up in Lincoln and Langlade counties and loved that part of the country. I was unaware of Manitowoc prior to the show but have done some internetting and it looks awesome. Small town/farmland right on Lake Michigan, I bet it is a great lifestyle. What kind of jobs/industries are up there? Does everyone commute to Green Bay and Milwaukee? How are the ladies? Is farmersonly popular?
chauncey
Footballguy
I'm drinking some bourbon in a hotel in bfe TX so figured why not do a little Manitowoc farmersonly browsing. Not great but not terrible, lots of fatties and fake pics but a few prospects. Doubledown, you know any of these lovely ladies?
Who's Hottest Manitowoc Metro Area Edition/Thread Hijack
Country girl looking for love (32 yr old)
Looking for a country boy (21 yr old)
Farm Girl 1 (23 yr old)
Farm Girl 2 (24 yr old)
Cowgirl 4 (24 yr old)
Organic farmer and pastry chef (32 yr old)
Who's Hottest Manitowoc Metro Area Edition/Thread Hijack
Country girl looking for love (32 yr old)
Cowgirl 1 (18 yr old)
Looking for a country boy (21 yr old)
Cowgirl 2 (22 yr old)
Cowgirl 3 (22 yr old)
Farm Girl 1 (23 yr old)
Farm Girl 2 (24 yr old)
Cowgirl 4 (24 yr old)
Organic farmer and pastry chef (32 yr old)
ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
how can anyone give any credence into anything Brandon Dassey confessed to?
He confessed to whatever narrative the detectives wanted him to confess to.
When they thought she was killed in the bedroom he confessed to that. When they changed it to her being killed in the garage he confessed to that. If they would have wanted a confession that she was killed on the moon he would have confessed to that.
He confessed to whatever narrative the detectives wanted him to confess to.
When they thought she was killed in the bedroom he confessed to that. When they changed it to her being killed in the garage he confessed to that. If they would have wanted a confession that she was killed on the moon he would have confessed to that.
Mr. Pickles
Footballguy
Doubledown1313
Footballguy
But if you talk to any of the Avery brothers, it can sway your opinion. Even before the murder. They are just not right. You would NOT have gone to that scrapyard alone.
Doubledown1313
Footballguy
Only about 32000 people with smaller towns around. Two Rivers being the closest with about 12500 people. Some industry. I do plastic extrusion. Products made here you would know would be any crane made by the Manitowoc company as well as ice machines that are in alot of hotels or restaurants. Ariens is also near here in Brillion. They make snow blowers. Its about a 30 minute drive north to Green Bay so some commute there. Not many commuters to Milwaukee, about an hour and a half to get there. Many people commute to Kohler. They make toilets and other bathroom fixtures. Women here are hit and miss. They're crazy everywhere it seems.
Doubledown1313
Footballguy
I don't know any of these. A bit young for my age. Knocking on 40. We do have our fair share of fatties.
chauncey
Footballguy
The hotel I am in right now just installed some new ice machines. I saw the big boxes with Manitowoc plastered across them this morning.
Doubledown1313
Footballguy
This would be the murder. I was too young when the initial trial for rape happened.
I did not see mam yet. I did watch a show on Investigation Dicovery channel earlier this week that discussed mam as well as the whole story starting with the rape trial. They had interviews with alot of the people involved including the makers of mam.
bucksoh
Footballguy
So if SA is exonerated will you still believe he is guilty? Will you watch mam? Or you won't cause you watched the news coverage? Just wondering tia.
Politician Spock
Footballguy
#######s are innocent until proven guilty too. That's not a right held by only likeable people.
Doubledown1313
Footballguy
I likely won't watch mam. I really don't have the time. Mam, news coverage, or anything else at this point will all have an agenda attached and I don't think we'll ever get the truth unless we already know it.Maybe it really was this Edward Wayne Edwards guy.
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Doubledown1313
Footballguy
Sabertooth
Footballguy
It's interesting to me that those in the local area are so adamant that he is guilty because they totally drank the Kratz Kool Aid back in the day. Now they are saying it is biased, as if the "hide the kids" press conference wasn't way worse than anything shown on the doc. Even more interesting is how many refuse to even watch MaM because they apparently don't want to hear the other side of the story.
The closed mindedness of it all seems like some kind of coping mechanism or something. It's like they have no interest in any type of questioning their local authorities despite the fact that they framed Steven once and went on the air and stated it would be easier to kill him.
It's like they would rather remain unaware of corruption instead of facing it head on.
The closed mindedness of it all seems like some kind of coping mechanism or something. It's like they have no interest in any type of questioning their local authorities despite the fact that they framed Steven once and went on the air and stated it would be easier to kill him.
It's like they would rather remain unaware of corruption instead of facing it head on.
Politician Spock
Footballguy
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
You are basically accusing the entire state of being suckered by the media based on a documentary you saw on Netflix. That includes multiple TV stations, print, and radio broadcasts that talked about the case quite regularly.
Yet Wisconsinites are the unreasonable people here?
I admit the narrative is compelling. They set you up right from the beginning. Basically come right out saying they were out to get him. Law enforcement despised Steven Avery. Steven Avery was a shining example of their inadequacies, their misconduct.
Even though they were cleared of misconduct in the first case.
From there it just becomes the ultimate multi agency, multi county, national frame job. Everybody is in on it. People lap up the whole blood vial theory. They buy in to everybody from the department being personally liable and the insurance company wasn't going to pay the $36 million lawsuit, which of course is treated as a guaranteed win. Everybody just accepts that the Avery family is super poor even though they are surrounded by hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of scrap metal at the time. They think every little detail that points to Avery being innocent is valid and every detail that points to him being guilty is either a misunderstanding or was a frame up. The whole Buting overacting for the camera discovery of the blood vial with DRIED blood and a hole!!! They buy into it all.
Even after it is established that there was no evidence that the insurance company ever stated they wouldn't pay, even after all this time where there hasn't been any proof that any of these agencies was in on the frame job, it is Wisconsinites that are inflexible and refuse to consider the real story. Yep, they are the crazy ones.
Don't even get me started on the sideshow that Zellner is now up to and how people are lapping that up. Thanks for the DNA!!! Somebody is deleting my tweets!!!
Here's an interesting one:
So the day they find the car, some guy name Martinez... who Earl Avery says was at the salvage yard that day and was a regular customer... goes home from the Avery salvage yard and tries to kill his wife and family with an axe. How fk'd up is that?!
In Branden Dassey's first interrogation (Nov 6th), about an hour in, he actually brings this guy up saying maybe he killed TH... and they're like, I think we're done here.
Pretty crazy stuff:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/4490cd/pamela_sturm_didnt_just_find_the_rav4_she_may/
So the day they find the car, some guy name Martinez... who Earl Avery says was at the salvage yard that day and was a regular customer... goes home from the Avery salvage yard and tries to kill his wife and family with an axe. How fk'd up is that?!
In Branden Dassey's first interrogation (Nov 6th), about an hour in, he actually brings this guy up saying maybe he killed TH... and they're like, I think we're done here.
Pretty crazy stuff:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/4490cd/pamela_sturm_didnt_just_find_the_rav4_she_may/
Please do get started on Zellner.Don't even get me started on the sideshow that Zellner is now up to and how people are lapping that up. Thanks for the DNA!!! Somebody is deleting my tweets!!!
Billy Bats
Footballguy
MattFancy
Footballguy
Really good background on the sexual assault case: ‘Making A Murderer’: A Thorough Look At The Case That Put An Innocent Man In Prison For 18 Years
Dickies
Footballguy
Who cleared them of misconduct?parasaurolophus said:You are basically accusing the entire state of being suckered by the media based on a documentary you saw on Netflix. That includes multiple TV stations, print, and radio broadcasts that talked about the case quite regularly.Sabertooth said:
Yet Wisconsinites are the unreasonable people here?
I admit the narrative is compelling. They set you up right from the beginning. Basically come right out saying they were out to get him. Law enforcement despised Steven Avery. Steven Avery was a shining example of their inadequacies, their misconduct.
Even though they were cleared of misconduct in the first case.
From there it just becomes the ultimate multi agency, multi county, national frame job. Everybody is in on it. People lap up the whole blood vial theory. They buy in to everybody from the department being personally liable and the insurance company wasn't going to pay the $36 million lawsuit, which of course is treated as a guaranteed win. Everybody just accepts that the Avery family is super poor even though they are surrounded by hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of scrap metal at the time. They think every little detail that points to Avery being innocent is valid and every detail that points to him being guilty is either a misunderstanding or was a frame up. The whole Buting overacting for the camera discovery of the blood vial with DRIED blood and a hole!!! They buy into it all.
Even after it is established that there was no evidence that the insurance company ever stated they wouldn't pay, even after all this time where there hasn't been any proof that any of these agencies was in on the frame job, it is Wisconsinites that are inflexible and refuse to consider the real story. Yep, they are the crazy ones.
Don't even get me started on the sideshow that Zellner is now up to and how people are lapping that up. Thanks for the DNA!!! Somebody is deleting my tweets!!!
Wisc Atty Gen.Who cleared them of misconduct?parasaurolophus said:You are basically accusing the entire state of being suckered by the media based on a documentary you saw on Netflix. That includes multiple TV stations, print, and radio broadcasts that talked about the case quite regularly.Sabertooth said:
Yet Wisconsinites are the unreasonable people here?
I admit the narrative is compelling. They set you up right from the beginning. Basically come right out saying they were out to get him. Law enforcement despised Steven Avery. Steven Avery was a shining example of their inadequacies, their misconduct.
Even though they were cleared of misconduct in the first case.
From there it just becomes the ultimate multi agency, multi county, national frame job. Everybody is in on it. People lap up the whole blood vial theory. They buy in to everybody from the department being personally liable and the insurance company wasn't going to pay the $36 million lawsuit, which of course is treated as a guaranteed win. Everybody just accepts that the Avery family is super poor even though they are surrounded by hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of scrap metal at the time. They think every little detail that points to Avery being innocent is valid and every detail that points to him being guilty is either a misunderstanding or was a frame up. The whole Buting overacting for the camera discovery of the blood vial with DRIED blood and a hole!!! They buy into it all.
Even after it is established that there was no evidence that the insurance company ever stated they wouldn't pay, even after all this time where there hasn't been any proof that any of these agencies was in on the frame job, it is Wisconsinites that are inflexible and refuse to consider the real story. Yep, they are the crazy ones.
Don't even get me started on the sideshow that Zellner is now up to and how people are lapping that up. Thanks for the DNA!!! Somebody is deleting my tweets!!!
However, from the article linked right above your post:
Also discovered by the lawsuit filed by Avery: a damning interaction between the Brown County police and Manitowoc County sheriffs departments in 1995. A Brown County detective called Manitowoc County, reaching Sgt. Andrew Colborn, to inform him they had Gregory Allen in custody for a rape and he had just confessed to another rape in Manitowoc County. Not only was nothing done with this information in 1995, but the existence of the call was never disclosed during the Wisconsin attorney general’s 2004 investigation into wrongdoing.
Don't Noonan
Footballguy
I posted something similar earlier that it does seem like most people from Wisconsin that have posted in this thread presume he is guilty. He could very well be guilty but it is almost a defensive nature type of stance in that most refuse to watch mam.parasaurolophus said:You are basically accusing the entire state of being suckered by the media based on a documentary you saw on Netflix. That includes multiple TV stations, print, and radio broadcasts that talked about the case quite regularly.Sabertooth said:
Yet Wisconsinites are the unreasonable people here?
I admit the narrative is compelling. They set you up right from the beginning. Basically come right out saying they were out to get him. Law enforcement despised Steven Avery. Steven Avery was a shining example of their inadequacies, their misconduct.
Even though they were cleared of misconduct in the first case.
From there it just becomes the ultimate multi agency, multi county, national frame job. Everybody is in on it. People lap up the whole blood vial theory. They buy in to everybody from the department being personally liable and the insurance company wasn't going to pay the $36 million lawsuit, which of course is treated as a guaranteed win. Everybody just accepts that the Avery family is super poor even though they are surrounded by hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of scrap metal at the time. They think every little detail that points to Avery being innocent is valid and every detail that points to him being guilty is either a misunderstanding or was a frame up. The whole Buting overacting for the camera discovery of the blood vial with DRIED blood and a hole!!! They buy into it all.
Even after it is established that there was no evidence that the insurance company ever stated they wouldn't pay, even after all this time where there hasn't been any proof that any of these agencies was in on the frame job, it is Wisconsinites that are inflexible and refuse to consider the real story. Yep, they are the crazy ones.
Don't even get me started on the sideshow that Zellner is now up to and how people are lapping that up. Thanks for the DNA!!! Somebody is deleting my tweets!!!
bucksoh
Footballguy
Lol the cops cleared themselves. Para might have helpedWho cleared them of misconduct?parasaurolophus said:You are basically accusing the entire state of being suckered by the media based on a documentary you saw on Netflix. That includes multiple TV stations, print, and radio broadcasts that talked about the case quite regularly.Sabertooth said:
Yet Wisconsinites are the unreasonable people here?
I admit the narrative is compelling. They set you up right from the beginning. Basically come right out saying they were out to get him. Law enforcement despised Steven Avery. Steven Avery was a shining example of their inadequacies, their misconduct.
Even though they were cleared of misconduct in the first case.
From there it just becomes the ultimate multi agency, multi county, national frame job. Everybody is in on it. People lap up the whole blood vial theory. They buy in to everybody from the department being personally liable and the insurance company wasn't going to pay the $36 million lawsuit, which of course is treated as a guaranteed win. Everybody just accepts that the Avery family is super poor even though they are surrounded by hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of scrap metal at the time. They think every little detail that points to Avery being innocent is valid and every detail that points to him being guilty is either a misunderstanding or was a frame up. The whole Buting overacting for the camera discovery of the blood vial with DRIED blood and a hole!!! They buy into it all.
Even after it is established that there was no evidence that the insurance company ever stated they wouldn't pay, even after all this time where there hasn't been any proof that any of these agencies was in on the frame job, it is Wisconsinites that are inflexible and refuse to consider the real story. Yep, they are the crazy ones.
Don't even get me started on the sideshow that Zellner is now up to and how people are lapping that up. Thanks for the DNA!!! Somebody is deleting my tweets!!!
Das Boot
Footballguy
Run It Up
Footballguy
Meh my biggest problem with the entire thing was the way they portrayed Steven Avery. Granted the slant was clear, so they were just doing their job, but I'm a pretty firm believer in evil doesn't look like anything, I sat through 10 episodes of editing that makes SA look like a bumbling ignorant schmuck, incapable of anything more serious than being grossly irresponsible.
I just think that's naivety at best and narcissism at worst, just my personal belief that no one knows what anyone is truly capable of or what they are actual thinking ever.
This is by no means a judgement on SA, the police, the DA or the court. Idk how much of the evidence wasn't shown in the documentary, but I don't think there was enough evidence shown to convict a man of murder.
Brendan on the other hand should have never seen court.
I just think that's naivety at best and narcissism at worst, just my personal belief that no one knows what anyone is truly capable of or what they are actual thinking ever.
This is by no means a judgement on SA, the police, the DA or the court. Idk how much of the evidence wasn't shown in the documentary, but I don't think there was enough evidence shown to convict a man of murder.
Brendan on the other hand should have never seen court.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Nathan R. Jessep
Footballguy
Interesting. Surely there was some investigation into Martinez if it was known that he was on the property on the day in question, right???
Sabertooth
Footballguy
You'd think.
Nathan R. Jessep
Footballguy
I got sidetracked on reading the transcripts, but got through Day 2 so far. A few things I found interesting.. trial transcript nuggets:
- Pg 73 - The testimony story about SA coming out in a towel, which I have read about numerous times in articles, and quite frankly probably helped, at least in part, to form my opinion of his character, was ruled as inadmissible by the Judge because the witness couldn't remember exactly enough when the conversation took place and that the context of the conversation was not strong enough and could introduce unwanted prejudice. Funny, though, I think it did just that.
- Pg 90- The secretary who took SA's call (where he requested TH to take photos) testified that it was "not unusual" for him to have done that, since she was assigned to the region. I knew she was assigned to the region, but I didn't know someone had testified that it was not unusual, as the prosecution seemed to lean on that as yet another indictment of guilt against SA
- Pg 104 - Witness testifies to the defense that it was reasonable to assume (and it makes sense) that SA had TH's direct phone number. Not a huge deal, but interesting to think about. Why not call her directly if he was luring her? Maybe he lost her number. Who knows. Just thought it was interesting, and something I hadn't thought about.
- Pg. 200 - Pam Sturm ASKED for the camera she was given when they began searching for TH. Did not know that. I thought it was a little suspicious when I heard she was given a camera, but not so much once you know that she asked for it.
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Sabertooth
Footballguy
I think she knew damn well she was going to find that car.
Nathan R. Jessep
Footballguy
MattFancy
Footballguy
NBC 26 has been posting a lot of the raw footage from interviews with Avery lately. This one is of him and the family at the Cabin, Nov 6th.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDFnDaMkikg
I think I read that Netflix said that MaM has been viewed 8 million times in it's first 36 days.
Also, they raised the 9k or whatever they needed to get all the documents possible available. It's crazy how much people have gotten into this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDFnDaMkikg
I think I read that Netflix said that MaM has been viewed 8 million times in it's first 36 days.
Also, they raised the 9k or whatever they needed to get all the documents possible available. It's crazy how much people have gotten into this.
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Looks like interest may be waning here. Interesting Crime Time vid with Zellner though:
http://fawesome.ifood.tv/news/10113067-making-a-murderer-kathleen-zellner-defends-steven-avery
Sounds like she thinks she's got a slam dunk case on her hands. That's pretty surprising after seeing what a difficult time she had in the documentary Dream-Killer (which is now up on KAT) in what seemed to be a much easier case. I think she's going to make Steven Avery a very rich and very free man though.
And thanks to support from viewers like you, here's another documentary about false/coerced confessions and how they can fk up you life for a long time:
http://www.pbs.org/video/1637166286/
I think that's the 5th or 6th documentary about a false confession/wrongful conviction I've posted in this thread. Teach your kids that there's only one word that's acceptable to say to police if you're accused of anything even remotely serious; Lawyer.
http://fawesome.ifood.tv/news/10113067-making-a-murderer-kathleen-zellner-defends-steven-avery
Sounds like she thinks she's got a slam dunk case on her hands. That's pretty surprising after seeing what a difficult time she had in the documentary Dream-Killer (which is now up on KAT) in what seemed to be a much easier case. I think she's going to make Steven Avery a very rich and very free man though.
And thanks to support from viewers like you, here's another documentary about false/coerced confessions and how they can fk up you life for a long time:
http://www.pbs.org/video/1637166286/
I think that's the 5th or 6th documentary about a false confession/wrongful conviction I've posted in this thread. Teach your kids that there's only one word that's acceptable to say to police if you're accused of anything even remotely serious; Lawyer.
matttyl
Footballguy
I remember earlier in this thread there was a lot of talk about the vial of blood and the drip of blood on the purple cap. I donated blood yesterday, and at the end of it they fill 5 or 6 of those type of vials for various testing. For every one they have to puncture the rubber cap of the vile and the vacuum inside draws the blood out of the arm. The fact that a puncture was there on his vile isn't any type of smoking gun at all - it's suppose to be there. The cooler having the tape cut.....that's a different story.
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Michael Brown
Footballguy
I didn't read up on it myself, but I'm pretty sure someone else posted that the particular company referenced in this did NOT use the puncture method to draw the blood out. Not sure if it was true or not, but at least one person made mention of it.
matttyl
Footballguy
matttyl
Footballguy
There is no other way to do it. Those vials are vacuum sealed, so when pierced they draw the blood out. There is literally no other way to fill them unless you hold them under an open wound and catch the drippings.
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