T Bell
Footballguy
Hedged because they needed receivers, or hedged because they knew he had bad knees? Again, if you're saying it's the latter, provide a good link. I'm not seeing that at all.
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Malcolm Kelly (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter T Bell
- Start date
T Bell
Footballguy
The reason why the issue of Mayock's sources is so important here is that this is a pre-draft rumor. Kelly was a guy about whom there were questions due to his poor workout and subsequent criticism of the OU athletic department. I could see an ambitious GM throwing this story out there to drop his draft stock, which we've seen happen to other guys.southeastjerome said:
zadok
Footballguy
The needed a big WR so they drafted both in case one was a bust. IMHO, they felt much more comfortable picking Kelly only after they had Thomas, since Thomas was more highly regarded.
Anthony Borbely
Footballguy
I think you have to be naive if you don't think some teams took him all the way off their draft boards. That happens all the time when they have a serious injury concern. If his knee injury was not a legitimate long-term concern, he would have been a first round pick by somebody.
T Bell
Footballguy
I agree that they figured two (three actually, if you include TE Fred Davis) receiver picks were a safer bet for improving Zorn's new passing game than were two or one, but you again imply two things that I'm not sure are validated:1) that Thomas was regarded as a better prospect than Kelly before the draft. I definitely think that some, even most, people thought this, but it was still far from unanimous and even ignoring that, the difference in talent/potential between the two was not regarded as huge. This WR draft class was deep, but lacked elite prospects that stood out from the rest of the class.
2) that doubts about Kelly were fueled by health questions. There weren't health questions before the draft. There were athleticism questions, because of his poor workout, and then related attitude questions because of the way he'd criticized the OU athletic department about the workout. The experience of the 'Skins thus far has been that he's plenty athletic and has looked great in camp, and that he was probably underrated by most in that regard, and also the attitude issue has been non-existent and is attributed at this point to a rookie WR who overreacted to a bad workout and made a bad decision to open his mouth. There's nothing to notion, however, that they'd have only drafted Kelly having already drafted Thomas.
T Bell
Footballguy
Naive? Is it more naive to simply accept a single reporter's unsubstantiated report about a medical condition I can find no other reference to, or to actually go ahead as I've done and search for that substantiation and, not finding it, challenge the report? Regardless, you're saying that Kelly, with that poor pre-draft workout and the blow-up at the OU coaching staff was otherwise rated the top WR on most teams' boards? The reason I pose that question to you is that no WR's were taken in the 1st round this year. None. Was Kelly the only 1st round WR but for this alleged knee condition (a condition which, again, only Mayock was reporting on, amazingly enough for such a highly rated prospect)? I think we both know that that wasn't the case.
What happened this year was pretty much what you saw as defined by the draft - there were plenty of good WR prospects, but no great ones that stood out, so teams played it conservative and waited until the second round to pick guys, and different teams had different opinions or preferences as to given receivers' attributes, some thinking Hardy was the best guy, others thinking Avery or Thomas were, etc.
T Bell
Footballguy
I think they did regard Thomas more highly. I too regard Thomas more highly as I've said on these boards, saying that he's got more potential than Kelly does. That's a far cry from your assertion that they wouldn't have drafted Kelly without first drafting Thomas, much less that Kelly has degenerative knees.
zadok
Footballguy
Hence my use of "IMHO".
zadok
Footballguy
Regarding the circumstantial evidence for Kelly's knees being an issue pre-draft, see post 52 here:
http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...kelly&st=50
http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...kelly&st=50
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T Bell
Footballguy
The word "knee" doesn't appear in that post, or in any of the nested quotes in that post.
zadok
Footballguy
Do you know what "circumstantial" means? He was faster, then got slower. Add that to Mayock's report and this new surgery. It is my opinion (repeat, my opinion), that this is enough smoke to warrant a fire alarm.The word "knee" doesn't appear in that post, or in any of the nested quotes in that post.
T Bell
Footballguy
I know what "circumstantial" means - I'm a litigation attorney, so I deal with the concept every day. I also know what "guessing" and "speculating" mean, and also I feel confident I can recognize it when people are grasping for things that substantiate weak arguments. That's what you're doing here. He suffered a thigh injury in his bowl game, and there's no disputing that injury. Why isn't that injury - and its impact upon his training - a better explanation for his poor pre-draft workout than this degenerative knee condition that only Mike Mayock and his mystery source seem able to discern?Do you know what "circumstantial" means? He was faster, then got slower. Add that to Mayock's report and this new surgery. It is my opinion (repeat, my opinion), that this is enough smoke to warrant a fire alarm.The word "knee" doesn't appear in that post, or in any of the nested quotes in that post.
Dexter Manley
Footballguy
The Skins had Thomas and Kelly as the top 2 wr's on their draft board. Fred Davis was the top te on their board. They had all 3 of these guys rated as 1st round picks on their board.IIRC, the Skins were considering taking Thomas in the 1st round and almost certainly would of had they not traded down in the draft. The Skins #1 priority this offseason on offense was acquiring a couple big wr's. So after trading down in the draft, the Skins are sitting there with 3 2nd round picks. The #1 wr on their board, Thomas, falls to them and they quickly snatch him up as he fills their primary offensive need. This was a no brainer. They take Fred Davis with their next 2nd rounder, as he's probably the top available player left on their board at that point, and he fills a secondary offensive need.Kelly falls to them and they take him with their last 2nd rounder, as he's almost certainly the top available player on their board, and he fills their primary offensive need. No doubt the Skins front office planned on acquiring 2 big wr's in the draft, as they passed on signing any wr fa's, even a guy like DJ Hackett who played for Zorn in Seattle and could be had for cheap.I find the suggestion that any nfl front office would take 2 players at the same position in the 2nd round "in case one was a bust.," completely laughable. That's like a couple deciding to have 2 children, instead of one, "in case one dies." Complete nonsense.
fatness
Footballguy
Now that's just silly. That gets done in fantasy drafts, not the second round of NFL drafts.
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T Bell
Footballguy
Yes, because the Eagles' historically masterful evaluation of talent at the WR position is the model everybody goes by.
