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Mario Williams (1 Viewer)

Does Williams have the cover skills to play OLB? I'm sure he will be blitzing most of the time, but won't he have trouble in passing situations? Are they going to bring in another OLB on 3rd downs? It will be sick if he can pull it off.

 
'cstu said:
Does Williams have the cover skills to play OLB? I'm sure he will be blitzing most of the time, but won't he have trouble in passing situations? Are they going to bring in another OLB on 3rd downs? It will be sick if he can pull it off.
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most teams are not in their base on 3rd down so he would probably put his hand on the ground in nickel or dime. Sure either Watt or Antonio Smith could kick inside if they went to a 4 man line.
 
This just seems really odd to me. Like forcing a square peg into a round hole. MW is someone I form my D around, not the other way around.

 
Wade Phillips runs a 3-4 that's essentially a 4-3 in concept. The majority of the front seven will play a one gap concept. In that regard, Williams won't be playing much linebacker. He'll be much closer to what Demarcus Ware has been asked to do (though Ware has developed very well as an all-around OLB) than James Harrison. He may drop in coverage less than a guy like Julius Peppers does as a 4-3 end.

Still, it's an adjustment. Williams will be on the line of scrimmage but further away. The way he explodes off the line will be effective and engage linemen a step or two later. I think he's shown the ability to bend the corner in those situations on the rare occasion he stood up in a two point stance in the past and a full recovery from double sports hernias will help, too.

But it's an experiment for sure.

 
He is going to the D. Ware of the Texans. I think he could dominate from outside. He gets to match up against more TEs and RBs. I expect he will be flip flopped and moved around. He will most likely be rushing all the time but he has always been athletic so I could see him not being a liability in coverage. He would get better with technique improvement.

 
'Sabertooth said:
Ask the Packers how this worked for Aaron Kampman.
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Aside from the superficial connection between two elite 4-3 defensive ends moving to OLB, the Kampman comparison isn't great.Though it wasn't a rousing success, Kampman was on pace to repeat his 2008 numbers (only 8.5 sacks in a somewhat disappointing year) in 2009 before the knee injury. The situations are a bit different, too. Kampman was 30 and asked to learn a totally different scheme, 2-gap leaning zone blitz scheme. Williams will be 26 and need adjust only to pass rushing from a two point stance. He won't be dropping in coverage and he'll only rush from a two point stance about 40-50% of the time. The rest of his snaps will come in Wade's preferred four man front subpackages.
 
'Jene Bramel said:
Wade Phillips runs a 3-4 that's essentially a 4-3 in concept. The majority of the front seven will play a one gap concept. In that regard, Williams won't be playing much linebacker. He'll be much closer to what Demarcus Ware has been asked to do (though Ware has developed very well as an all-around OLB) than James Harrison. He may drop in coverage less than a guy like Julius Peppers does as a 4-3 end.Still, it's an adjustment. Williams will be on the line of scrimmage but further away. The way he explodes off the line will be effective and engage linemen a step or two later. I think he's shown the ability to bend the corner in those situations on the rare occasion he stood up in a two point stance in the past and a full recovery from double sports hernias will help, too.But it's an experiment for sure.
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Wade says he will be in coverage less than 5% of the time.. but in the 3/4 linbackers often line up on the line of scrimmage like in a 4/3...
 
'Jene Bramel said:
Wade Phillips runs a 3-4 that's essentially a 4-3 in concept. The majority of the front seven will play a one gap concept. In that regard, Williams won't be playing much linebacker. He'll be much closer to what Demarcus Ware has been asked to do (though Ware has developed very well as an all-around OLB) than James Harrison. He may drop in coverage less than a guy like Julius Peppers does as a 4-3 end.Still, it's an adjustment. Williams will be on the line of scrimmage but further away. The way he explodes off the line will be effective and engage linemen a step or two later. I think he's shown the ability to bend the corner in those situations on the rare occasion he stood up in a two point stance in the past and a full recovery from double sports hernias will help, too.But it's an experiment for sure.
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Wade says he will be in coverage less than 5% of the time.. but in the 3/4 linbackers often line up on the line of scrimmage like in a 4/3...
 
'beerbarron said:
'Jene Bramel said:
Wade Phillips runs a 3-4 that's essentially a 4-3 in concept. The majority of the front seven will play a one gap concept. In that regard, Williams won't be playing much linebacker. He'll be much closer to what Demarcus Ware has been asked to do (though Ware has developed very well as an all-around OLB) than James Harrison. He may drop in coverage less than a guy like Julius Peppers does as a 4-3 end.

Still, it's an adjustment. Williams will be on the line of scrimmage but further away. The way he explodes off the line will be effective and engage linemen a step or two later. I think he's shown the ability to bend the corner in those situations on the rare occasion he stood up in a two point stance in the past and a full recovery from double sports hernias will help, too.

But it's an experiment for sure.
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Wade says he will be in coverage less than 5% of the time.. but in the 3/4 linbackers often line up on the line of scrimmage like in a 4/3...
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Absolutely. For those interested, I wrote a series for the Fifth Down blog on some NFL defensive concepts. Here's the entry on the 3-4 defense that touches on some of the differences between the different types of 3-4 fronts.

 
'Lash said:
http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=591516

i am not wanting to hijack this thread so i started a new one on why football coaches cant/wont conform to the talents of their players

i understand in this example Kubiak must think a 3-4 is better against Peyton, rest of AFC south or he wouldn't have hired Wade

i'm just asking in general on that thread
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Bob McNair hired Wade. Kubiak did not have much say at all in it, which is fine after his recommendation of Frank Bush.
 
So if they were planning on moving Williams to OLB, and they already have Connor Barwin in place to start at OLB, why in the world did they draft Brooks Reed in the second round?

 
'LTF said:
So if they were planning on moving Williams to OLB, and they already have Connor Barwin in place to start at OLB, why in the world did they draft Brooks Reed in the second round?
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Barwin is extremely raw (in football experience overall and at LB) and is coming off injury. Other than Brian Cushing, there wasn't anyone on the roster that looked like a strong candidate to play outside linebacker in the 3-4, and the Texans want him inside. Reed is something of a developmental project himself.And you can never have enough pass rushers. The Texans could've drafted two OLB candidates and still been justified in moving Williams if the staff thought Williams was a good bet to bring as much pressure from an DE/OLB role than just a DE role.
 
On the positive side, Williams' defensive coordinators since he's been in the league have been Richard Smith and Frank Bush, who were both basically awful. I'm gonna give Wade the benefit of the doubt for now, he's a big-time upgrade over those two. The defense can't possibly get any worse. It would sure be nice if we could get this lockout crap over with though, because it seems like guys will be moving around in different spots quite a bit based on the personnel currently on the roster....

 
Really, the 4-3 DE (especially right) and many 3-4 OLB ( normally weak) play a position called pass rusher. For IDP fantasy reasons it matters to us, but at the end of the day, if the player is getting at least 10-12 sacks we really don't give a bleep if he stands up or has his hand in the dirt.

 
'beerbarron said:
'Jene Bramel said:
Wade Phillips runs a 3-4 that's essentially a 4-3 in concept. The majority of the front seven will play a one gap concept. In that regard, Williams won't be playing much linebacker. He'll be much closer to what Demarcus Ware has been asked to do (though Ware has developed very well as an all-around OLB) than James Harrison. He may drop in coverage less than a guy like Julius Peppers does as a 4-3 end.Still, it's an adjustment. Williams will be on the line of scrimmage but further away. The way he explodes off the line will be effective and engage linemen a step or two later. I think he's shown the ability to bend the corner in those situations on the rare occasion he stood up in a two point stance in the past and a full recovery from double sports hernias will help, too.But it's an experiment for sure.
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Wade says he will be in coverage less than 5% of the time.. but in the 3/4 linbackers often line up on the line of scrimmage like in a 4/3...
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If that's accurate, I like Super Mario's chances of staying a DE in MFL's data base.
'coolnerd said:
Really, the 4-3 DE (especially right) and many 3-4 OLB ( normally weak) play a position called pass rusher. For IDP fantasy reasons it matters to us, but at the end of the day, if the player is getting at least 10-12 sacks we really don't give a bleep if he stands up or has his hand in the dirt.
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True. All things being equal, it stands to reason he'll have more success in a Wade Phillips led defense than he would in some of the other defensive schemes he's been in.
 
'coolnerd said:
Really, the 4-3 DE (especially right) and many 3-4 OLB ( normally weak) play a position called pass rusher. For IDP fantasy reasons it matters to us, but at the end of the day, if the player is getting at least 10-12 sacks we really don't give a bleep if he stands up or has his hand in the dirt.
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IN my home league, Mario 2 years ago scored 84.5 pts(1 per tackle, .5 per assist, 4 per sack, 5 per INT, 2 per FF, 3 for FR, .5 per PD) which would have equaled LB 63 from DE6. I think it makes a huge difference with or without the sacks and this league is more big play than most. DE for fantasy purpose is becoming such a scarce commodity and thus has a premium value because of it. I think Mario gets moved to LB in MFL with this news. Does not matter that he plays DE alot, it will be a 3-4 D with him listed as OLB on depth charts and they will make the same change
 
'Crippler said:
'coolnerd said:
Really, the 4-3 DE (especially right) and many 3-4 OLB ( normally weak) play a position called pass rusher. For IDP fantasy reasons it matters to us, but at the end of the day, if the player is getting at least 10-12 sacks we really don't give a bleep if he stands up or has his hand in the dirt.
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IN my home league, Mario 2 years ago scored 84.5 pts(1 per tackle, .5 per assist, 4 per sack, 5 per INT, 2 per FF, 3 for FR, .5 per PD) which would have equaled LB 63 from DE6. I think it makes a huge difference with or without the sacks and this league is more big play than most. DE for fantasy purpose is becoming such a scarce commodity and thus has a premium value because of it. I think Mario gets moved to LB in MFL with this news. Does not matter that he plays DE alot, it will be a 3-4 D with him listed as OLB on depth charts and they will make the same change
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I think was more Houston fan talking than fantasy player talking in that late night rant.
 
Can someone tell me the difference between a 4-3 and a 3-4 with a "LB" who puts his hand in the dirt and rushes the QB every play?

 
'zed2283 said:
Can someone tell me the difference between a 4-3 and a 3-4 with a "LB" who puts his hand in the dirt and rushes the QB every play?
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The differences are subtle, but there. I've noted some of the technique differences in earlier posts, but it's essentially a slight shift in the alignment of the WOLB (who's now in a two point stance and plays further outside the LT), SOLB/SLB (who will play a little further outside and sometimes on the LOS) and LDE (who may be the only player who has a 2-gap responsibility, shifting inside over the RT).
 
'Bracie Smathers said:
Both Willie McGhinnest and Warren Sapp went into this subject a bit further and it is VERY EYE OPENING to watch just to begin to understand how difficult it is for a down defensive lineman to convert into a stand up 3-4 OLB/DE hybrid.

Great video by McGhinnest and Sapp:

My link

http://www.nfl.com/videos/houston-texans/09000d5d81fb213e/That-s-one-giant-linebacker
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even if it's just an excuse to line super mario up and use him all over the formation as that is what I would do
 
I think the change to the 3-4 has more to do with Okoye not providing much pass rush as an under tackle than anything else. The 3-4 will allow Williams to move around and attack from either side which makes it harder to game plan for him.The Texans have taken a few hybrid defensive players in recent drafts that at the time may have seemed a better fit for 3-4 than 4-3 like Connor Barwin for example. So the change may be a better fit for the overall personnel. Mario is good enough to play anywhere.For IDP Williams is not as valuable as a LB as he was as a DE in most scoring systems.

When it was first revealed that Mario Williams would switch to linebacker in new Houston Texans defensive coordinator Wade Phillips' scheme, the doubters were loud and plentiful.The case against the switch was two-fold. First, Williams is one of the NFL's most productive defensive ends. Moving him to linebacker would be a clear violation of the if-it-ain't-broke-don't-fix-it principle. Second, Williams is a big man -- 6-foot-6 and 290 pounds, to be exact. He'd be a skyscraper at a position where many players are built like fire hydrants.So, Phillips took time out Monday to clarify his thinking on the issue."They say '3-4,' '4-3,' all that," Phillips told the Texans' official website at their annual Charity Golf Classic. "We really play a 5-2. We play five defensive linemen that can rush the passer and two inside 'backers who can tackle people. And we think Mario certainly fits in there."Phillips explained that Williams often will stand up on the right edge of the line, serving as a weakside linebacker."We put (Williams) in the premier position," Phillips said. "You're rushing the passer more at Will (weakside linebacker), and so that's where we put him."We were looking in the draft for the best pass rusher. Well, we had him on our team, and so we just moved him to that position rather than going the other way around."And while Williams will be listed as a linebacker, don't figure to see the two-time Pro Bowl pick in much pass coverage."We're not going to drop him," Phillips said. "We're going to rush him. That's why I say we're more of a 5-2, in that those five guys are coming a lot of the time, especially the position Mario plays. DeMarcus Ware played that position, Bryce Paup –- on and on, guys that have led the league. They didn't lead the league in sacks by dropping a whole lot."Texans coach Gary Kubiak said the team can employ this defense because of the shape-shifting nature of its roster."We have a lot of versatility," Kubiak said. "(Brian) Cushing gives us a lot of versatility. Connor Barwin gives us a lot of versatility. If Mark Anderson ... ends up being ours throughout this (free-agency) process, he gives us versatility."Williams' career in Houston began with controversy in 2006, when the Texans drafted him first overall when popular thinking had Reggie Bush going there. Williams vindicated Houston with a strong career that has included 48 sacks in five seasons. He finished last season with 8.5 sacks, his lowest output since his rookie year.It's possible a change in strategy can help Williams return to his heights of 2007 and 2008, when he put up 26 sacks in 32 games."The more you can do with players scheme-wise helps you," Phillips said. "We're going to put Mario down some, but we're not going to tell them when. And same thing with Cushing: We're going to play him inside most of the time, but sometimes he's going to be rushing outside
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http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81fc1fb8/article/williams-will-bring-pressure-despite-shift-to-lb-phillips-says
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Was thinking about this discussion this morning. Starting to get far enough into the season to get a fair measure of what's going on.

Four games into the season, Mario Williams has 4 sacks, and would have had a fifth but Kerry Collins intentionally grounded the ball on a play Mario was about to sack him. Haven't noticed him dropping into coverage much at all. I think I recall him covering a TE once. In nickel and dime packages he and Barwin basically play as a 4-3 defensive end.

Biggest difference I've noticed is that he isn't as much of a factor in stopping the running game now, something he was pretty solid at. But he's been a factor as a pass rusher, though the Saints did pretty well against him.

 
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