WR Kyle Williams, NE (1 Viewer)

[Anarchy99]

McDaniels has worked with more QBs than you think besides Brady. Those guys included Cassel, Hoyer, Orton, Simms, Tebow, Bradford, Feeley, Clemens, Garoppolo, Brissett, Stidham, Newton, Jones, Carr, and O'Connell. That's 15 guys not named Brady. Those results were pretty uninspiring.

Those QBs are mostly uninspiring, as well. However, you make some great points.

I might get fire-bombed over this, but how much do we really know about Maye? It's unfair to compare him to Brady . . . but is it unfair to compare him to Orton, Bradford, Garoppolo, or Carr? In reality, we don't really know what Maye is yet.

He had some really good moments last year and some really impressive throws. But he made some bad decisions, had a lot of turnovers, and won a grand total of 1 game. He didn't really play in many high-pressure moments, as the team was going nowhere. I put the huge majority of the blame for that on roster construction, poor coaching, non-existent blocking, and uninspired play calling. But IMO, Maye is far from a sure thing at this point. He flashed potential, and NE fans can hope he improves with a new regime and some improvements on the offensive side of the ball.

 

[pinkstapler]

McDaniels has worked with more QBs than you think besides Brady. Those guys included Cassel, Hoyer, Orton, Simms, Tebow, Bradford, Feeley, Clemens, Garoppolo, Brissett, Stidham, Newton, Jones, Carr, and O'Connell. That's 15 guys not named Brady. Those results were pretty uninspiring.

Those QBs are mostly uninspiring, as well. However, you make some great points.

I might get fire-bombed over this, but how much do we really know about Maye? It's unfair to compare him to Brady . . . but is it unfair to compare him to Orton, Bradford, Garoppolo, or Carr? In reality, we don't really know what Maye is yet.

He had some really good moments last year and some really impressive throws. But he made some bad decisions, had a lot of turnovers, and won a grand total of 1 game. He didn't really play in many high-pressure moments, as the team was going nowhere. I put the huge majority of the blame for that on roster construction, poor coaching, non-existent blocking, and uninspired play calling. But IMO, Maye is far from a sure thing at this point. He flashed potential, and NE fans can hope he improves with a new regime and some improvements on the offensive side of the ball.

Not disagreeing with a thing you said here; all makes complete sense. But I will at least add to his positive column; he gets an A in my book for a lot of the intangibles. He always seemed cool, calm, and collected. He handled the poor situation well, wasn't throwing fits on the sidelines (from what I saw), was able to rebound from/shake off mistakes he himself made on the field, said all the right things in post game pressers, and seemed to win over most of the coaches and his teammates. Sure takes a lot more than that to win football games, let alone become a playoff contender. But it's also better than the alternative too.

 

[Lansdowne]

In redraft leagues, I probably wouldn't expect much out of Williams as a rookie. McDaniels offense is said to be very complicated . . . and even veterans often struggle to pick it up. Here's how rookie WRs have fared with JMD as an OC or HC.

2006 - Chad Jackson, NE - Pick 59 (13-152-3) (WR 103 in PPR leagues)
2010 - Demaryius Thomas, DEN - Pick 22 (22-283-2) (WR 95)
2010 - Eric Decker, DEN - Pick 87 (6-106-1) (WR 136)
2011 - Austin Pettis, STL - Pick 78 (27-256-0) (WR 111)
2011 - Greg Salas, STL - Pick 112 (27-264-0) (WR 104)
2013 - Aaron Dobson, NE - Pick 59 (37-519-4) (WR 61)
2013 - Josh Boyce, NE - Pick 102 (9-121-0) (WR 134)
2016 - Malcolm Mitchell, NE - Pick 112 (32-104-4) (WR 79)
2019 - N'Keal Harry, NE - Pick 32 (12-105-2) (WR 124)
2019 - Jakobi Meyers, NE - UDFA (26-359-0) (WR 97)
2023 - Tre Tucker, LV - Pick 100 (19-331-2) (WR 87)

That's 11 players that were mostly afterthoughts in fantasy leagues as rookies. Who knows if that pattern will continue with Williams, who was the 69th pick in the draft and 9th WR off the board.

On the flip side I don’t expect McDaniels offense this year to be the complicated one it was with Brady…I think we saw that as he really changed it with Newton and Jones to fit their skill sets…not exactly sure what it will be with Maye but I feel very confident he won’t ask a second year QB to do what a veteran Tom Brady was doing.

That's an important thing to consider. Maye has a different skill set to Brady, and the offense added speed with the additions of Henderson and Williams. It's not set in stone that McDaniels will run the Erhardt-Perkins offense like he did with Brady.

For me it's less concern about how well Williams adapts to McDaniels' offense and more that it may take a bit for Williams to get enough snaps to be fantasy relevant as a rookie. Even as underwhelming as the Patriots WR room may look on paper, it still has established veterans (Diggs, Hollins, Bourne) and youngsters who had rapport with Maye (Douglas and Boutte). Williams presents the highest long term upside in the room by far but he'll need to look like a phenom in training camp and push the incumbents ahead of him for playing time. Love him for dynasty still, redraft he probably goes undrafted.

 

[RC94]

@scoutdnfl
2+ minutes of Kyle Williams absolutely torching guys on All-22:

• Patriots fans, meet your WR1…

https://x.com/scoutdnfl/status/1916136525399511235?s=61

Evan Lazar
Obviously, it takes a few years to really assess a draft. But it's been a while since the #Patriots have received high marks from pretty much every draft expert.

The great @dpbrugler ranked the Pats with the best draft among all 32 teams. Kyle Williams was his favorite pick.

https://x.com/ezlazar/status/1916854701166842225?s=61

Steve Smith Sr.
Got the chance to link up w my dawg #kylewilliams and his little brother. @Patriots fans yall got a real one!

https://x.com/stevesmithsr89/status/1916324165491298326?s=61

@Soulfly3

Definitely targeting him w my 2.03 pick (10 team)... Hoping he'll be there

I wouldn't worry about that. I can't see many scenarios where Williams is going in the top 12 of incoming rookies, regardless of how much people like him. Especially not in any SF or TEP leagues. I'm sure it will be moving up in the next week or so, and probably quite a bit; but he's currently consensus 38 among rookies on KTC. I'd guess he lands comfortably in the mid second of standard league rookie drafts somewhere around pick 18 overall.

my league is deadly tho... all guys that went to high school together, 20+yrs later, in the same league. everyone wants to crap on everyone.
i love it and also hate it, because guys go in crazy spots

It definitely makes sense to announce who you're targeting ahead of time in this case... I agree with Pinkstapler, though - 2.03 in a 10 team league is early for him. I'm in 4 1QB rookie mock drafts right now and he's gone in the late 2nd (12 teams). Specifically, 2.09, 2.10, 2.10, and 3.02.

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

McDaniels has worked with more QBs than you think besides Brady. Those guys included Cassel, Hoyer, Orton, Simms, Tebow, Bradford, Feeley, Clemens, Garoppolo, Brissett, Stidham, Newton, Jones, Carr, and O'Connell. That's 15 guys not named Brady. Those results were pretty uninspiring.

Those QBs are mostly uninspiring, as well. However, you make some great points.

I might get fire-bombed over this, but how much do we really know about Maye? It's unfair to compare him to Brady . . . but is it unfair to compare him to Orton, Bradford, Garoppolo, or Carr? In reality, we don't really know what Maye is yet.

He had some really good moments last year and some really impressive throws. But he made some bad decisions, had a lot of turnovers, and won a grand total of 1 game. He didn't really play in many high-pressure moments, as the team was going nowhere. I put the huge majority of the blame for that on roster construction, poor coaching, non-existent blocking, and uninspired play calling. But IMO, Maye is far from a sure thing at this point. He flashed potential, and NE fans can hope he improves with a new regime and some improvements on the offensive side of the ball.

Don't disagree with most of what you said there, but it looks like u r straddling the fence a bit. Of course we don't know what Maye is yet, but take a stand one way or the other. Do you think it is more likely he succeeds or doesn't succeed? I like what I have seen and I think he could be really good, if I'm wrong, so be it, but isn't that what we are here for. Thumb up or thumb down on Maye David?

Fwiw, I did not initially like the Kyle Williams pick, but that was mostly out of ignorance and the more I read the more I like. I like the pick and I like Maye; I think they will make beautiful music together.

 

[kyoun1e]

McDaniels has worked with more QBs than you think besides Brady. Those guys included Cassel, Hoyer, Orton, Simms, Tebow, Bradford, Feeley, Clemens, Garoppolo, Brissett, Stidham, Newton, Jones, Carr, and O'Connell. That's 15 guys not named Brady. Those results were pretty uninspiring.

Those QBs are mostly uninspiring, as well. However, you make some great points.

I might get fire-bombed over this, but how much do we really know about Maye? It's unfair to compare him to Brady . . . but is it unfair to compare him to Orton, Bradford, Garoppolo, or Carr? In reality, we don't really know what Maye is yet.

He had some really good moments last year and some really impressive throws. But he made some bad decisions, had a lot of turnovers, and won a grand total of 1 game. He didn't really play in many high-pressure moments, as the team was going nowhere. I put the huge majority of the blame for that on roster construction, poor coaching, non-existent blocking, and uninspired play calling. But IMO, Maye is far from a sure thing at this point. He flashed potential, and NE fans can hope he improves with a new regime and some improvements on the offensive side of the ball.

Disagree completely.

I've watched a lot of football over a handful decades and my eyes are convinced.

My flag is planted on Maye.

He was thrown in a dumpster fire last year. Now, with adults in the room now, improvements on the line, improvements on D that will give him more opportunities, and improvements in weaponry, I'm very excited for the future.

 

[Anarchy99]

McDaniels has worked with more QBs than you think besides Brady. Those guys included Cassel, Hoyer, Orton, Simms, Tebow, Bradford, Feeley, Clemens, Garoppolo, Brissett, Stidham, Newton, Jones, Carr, and O'Connell. That's 15 guys not named Brady. Those results were pretty uninspiring.

Those QBs are mostly uninspiring, as well. However, you make some great points.

I might get fire-bombed over this, but how much do we really know about Maye? It's unfair to compare him to Brady . . . but is it unfair to compare him to Orton, Bradford, Garoppolo, or Carr? In reality, we don't really know what Maye is yet.

He had some really good moments last year and some really impressive throws. But he made some bad decisions, had a lot of turnovers, and won a grand total of 1 game. He didn't really play in many high-pressure moments, as the team was going nowhere. I put the huge majority of the blame for that on roster construction, poor coaching, non-existent blocking, and uninspired play calling. But IMO, Maye is far from a sure thing at this point. He flashed potential, and NE fans can hope he improves with a new regime and some improvements on the offensive side of the ball.

Disagree completely.

I've watched a lot of football over a handful decades and my eyes are convinced.

My flag is planted on Maye.

He was thrown in a dumpster fire last year. Now, with adults in the room now, improvements on the line, improvements on D that will give him more opportunities, and improvements in weaponry, I'm very excited for the future.

I never said Maye couldn't be good, all I'm saying is there isn't a ton to suggest he is a can't miss QB AT THIS POINT. We all agree the NE offense was terrible and that wasn't Maye's fault. Could Maye be much better with a huge talent infusion on offense? Sure. Did the Pats give him a huge talent upgrade on offense? Who knows? I would argue probably not, but that's not to suggest the offense couldn't be better this year (or that they won't get better in the future). I still think they have questions at WR and OL . . . they have different players, but it's too soon to be able to judge if they are actually a lot better.

All I was saying is that there weren't a ton of situations last year that NE had a lot riding on or that were high pressure situations to tell if Maye is going to rip the hearts out of opposing fans in crunch time. Teams feared giving Brady the ball at the end of games, as he time and time again scored when they had to. Maybe Maye could evolve into that, but to suggest that he is that already seems to be a bit of wishful thinking.

Maye had 7 scores in garbage time in the 4th quarter in games that were long since decided. That's over 40% of his TD production on the season. That means he had 10 TDs the rest of the time in 11 or 12 games. Again, not his fault the offense was a dumpster fire. But IMO, I think it's too soon to tell how well he could do with a real offense in competitive situations. Based on last year, do we have the utmost confidence that Maye could lead a last minute drive in KC to get a score to win a playoff game. I'm not saying he couldn't win in those types of situations, only that we haven't seen him in those gotta have it spots yet.

I think Maye will be fine . . . I just haven't seen enough to be convinced that he will be a Top 5 guy for a decade. And to emphasize AGAIN, this is not me being negative on Maye, it's me simply wondering out loud when and if he will be a top tier QB. I don't think wondering whether Maye could be a Top 5 QB in the league is all that crazy. It's a two part proposition . . . 1) how good Maye could be and 2) how good of a supporting cast can the team put around him. IMO, we are still a ways a way from the offense hitting on all cylinders.

 

[JohnnyU]

It seems every year there is a player that I'm ignoring to my own detriment This year may be Williams.

 

[King of the Jungle]

It seems every year there is a player that I'm ignoring to my own detriment This year may be Williams.

Until NE shows me they can draft a competent receiver I will be sitting out on drafting them.

 

[Anarchy99]

It seems every year there is a player that I'm ignoring to my own detriment This year may be Williams.

Until NE shows me they can draft a competent receiver I will be sitting out on drafting them.

Top fantasy ranking NE WR over the past 5 seasons in PPR leagues:

2020 - Jakobi Meyers - WR 54
2021 - Jakobi Meyers - WR 30
2022 - Jakobi Meyers - WR 29
2023 - Demario Douglas - WR 63
2024 - Demario Douglas - WR 46

IMO, NE receivers might be worth a dart throw late in redraft leagues as an injury or bye week fill in in deeper leagues. Meyers was a sneaky pick at the time, but not sure I would run out and take a NE guy this year. Diggs and Williams will likely go way earlier than I would take them.

 

[HomerSimpson]

Just happy the 49ers didn't draft him.. that name.. bad memories.

 

[socrates]

I don't fault anyone for being hesitant to invest in the Patriots' passing game. However, this is a brand new regime. Mayo was clearly in over his head, and there has been a slow decline in personnel since even before Tom Brady departed.

The offense under Vrabel and McDaniels' leadership should be much different. Vrabel's offense in Tennessee emphasized the running game. In Vrabel's six seasons in Tennessee, they had the highest early-down rush frequency in the NFL (45.3%) and ranked second in rush attempts and rushing yards while operating a wide-zone scheme.

I don't know that you should expect a similar run-first approach in New England, however. Vrabel inherited Derrick Henry in Tennessee, so he was playing to his team's strengths. When asked about the run-heavy offense he ran in Tennessee, Vrabel offered this: "Our best player was our running back." "We tried to build the offense around what we felt like was our best player and what was our strength. You base whatever system and scheme that you have on the players that you have."

With New England, Vrabel inherits a young, potentially dynamic QB in Drake Maye. Keep in mind that during Vrabel's tenure in Tennessee, they also drafted (Rd. 2) and developed AJ Brown, and Ryan Tannehill became a Pro Bowler. Vrabel will emphasize preparedness and efficiency in New England, and he is re-shaping this team from the trenches out.

OC Josh McDaniels is known for installing complex concepts that challenge a QB's quick thinking, discipline and mental preparedness. However, McDaniels has also shown he will tailor his scheme to the strengths of his offense. I expect he will incorporate elements like motion and RPOs to play to Drake's strengths.

Kyle Williams quickly went from underrated to an early-to-mid second round rookie fantasy selection, and that has many Fantasy Managers understandably nervous. Forget about the early projections that Williams would go undrafted. Rather, look at the player. Williams is a disciplined route runner who quickly creates separation, and he is dynamic after the catch. His strengths seemingly fit with what Vrabel and McDaniels are trying to install in New England, and he benefits from being paired with a young talented QB. I believe he may also benefit from the presence of Diggs, a player Williams shares some traits with.

I don't know if Williams is a true WR1, but he should get his opportunity to interview for the position this season.

I have Williams as my 2.05 in single QB PPR format rankings, sandwiched between Higgins and Harris immediately ahead of him, and Jack Bech immediately behind him. These other receivers all received better draft capital, but Williams faces less competition to "be the guy" for his team. Conservative managers may choose to avoid him, but Williams arguably has the highest ceiling of this group of wideouts.

2.02 | WR6 | Jayden Higgins | HOU Texans | 6-4 ⅛ | 214 | 4.47 | Rd 2, Pk 2
2.03 | WR7 | Tre Harris | LA Chargers | 6-2 ⅜ | 205 | 4.54 | Rd 2, Pk 23
2.04 | WR8 | Kyle Williams | NE Patriots | 5-10 ⅝ | 190 | 4.40 | Rd 3, Pk 5
2.05 | WR9 | Jack Bech | LV Raiders | 6-1 ¼ | 214 | – | Rd 2, Pk 26

 

[Lansdowne]

I'm with you on that, socrates. The Chiefs couldn't draft a QB for decades until they finally got one in Mahomes. Ohio State couldn't produce an NFL caliber QB until they did with Stroud. The Patriots drafted some pretty good WR's prior to Belichick, and have to figure eventually they'll stick the landing with one of these WR picks. Williams is exactly the type of WR Pats fans have been begging for: one who gets separation, and he's among the very best in his class at it. I'm cautiously optimistic to see what he'll do with Maye, the best QB he's worked with up to this point. I'm not expecting this Pats offense to be world beaters overnight but I am expecting improvement pushing toward middle of the pack now that there's cohesion in the coaching staff.

 

[greenmountaingoat]

Waldman is worried about his hands position work. Listening to Harmon and the guys on the ringer (Danny Kelly??) it’s a little weird hear neutral folks talking up a pats WR pick for a second year in a row and not feeling confident.

So ‘easily one of the best separators in the class’ and Dionte Johnson with a plan after the catch. All sounds encouraging but whenever Waldman is worried about the hands position stuff I get the heebe jeebies.

 

[greenmountaingoat]

Harmon talks up how quickly he uncovers. Amazing release package

 

[Lansdowne]

Waldman is worried about his hands position work. Listening to Harmon and the guys on the ringer (Danny Kelly??) it’s a little weird hear neutral folks talking up a pats WR pick for a second year in a row and not feeling confident.

So ‘easily one of the best separators in the class’ and Dionte Johnson with a plan after the catch. All sounds encouraging but whenever Waldman is worried about the hands position stuff I get the heebe jeebies.

I feel you on the worries when it comes to hands, considering he had 8 drops last season. Polk was supposed to have some of the surest hands in his class and drops plagued him last season so who knows. But I’m remaining cautiously optimistic that Williams can be coached up on better technique when it comes to coming down with the ball on contested catches. One of the comps I’ve heard of Williams is early-career Diggs. He’s on the right team and a chance to learn from Diggs himself if that’s the case.

 

[Faust]

Fantasy Football 2025: WR Kyle Williams player profile

 

[munchkin420]

In redraft leagues, I probably wouldn't expect much out of Williams as a rookie. McDaniels offense is said to be very complicated . . . and even veterans often struggle to pick it up. Here's how rookie WRs have fared with JMD as an OC or HC.

2006 - Chad Jackson, NE - Pick 59 (13-152-3) (WR 103 in PPR leagues)
2010 - Demaryius Thomas, DEN - Pick 22 (22-283-2) (WR 95)
2010 - Eric Decker, DEN - Pick 87 (6-106-1) (WR 136)
2011 - Austin Pettis, STL - Pick 78 (27-256-0) (WR 111)
2011 - Greg Salas, STL - Pick 112 (27-264-0) (WR 104)
2013 - Aaron Dobson, NE - Pick 59 (37-519-4) (WR 61)
2013 - Josh Boyce, NE - Pick 102 (9-121-0) (WR 134)
2016 - Malcolm Mitchell, NE - Pick 112 (32-104-4) (WR 79)
2019 - N'Keal Harry, NE - Pick 32 (12-105-2) (WR 124)
2019 - Jakobi Meyers, NE - UDFA (26-359-0) (WR 97)
2023 - Tre Tucker, LV - Pick 100 (19-331-2) (WR 87)

That's 11 players that were mostly afterthoughts in fantasy leagues as rookies. Who knows if that pattern will continue with Williams, who was the 69th pick in the draft and 9th WR off the board.

Malcolm Mitchell fought injuries but did help them win a SB. Brady was tough on all wide receivers. Josh is a vg OC. Working under Vrabel will be different than Brady and Maye (seemingly) has a different mindset than Brady. It will be interesting to see how this pans out. Waldman isn't impressed with Williams' hands.

 

[Anarchy99]

Josh is a vg OC.

Maybe JMD is a very good OC. The question is, how can we tell? What defines "very good"?

In the main Patriots thread, I posted that in the 7 seasons since McDaniels left NE the first time and had anyone other than Brady as a QB (between DEN, STL, NE, and LV), his teams averaged 20th in offensive points scored and 20th in offensive yardage. NE had one season ranked 6th in points and 15th in yardage in Mac Jones' first season, but most of that stemmed from scoring 150 points with nearly 1500 yards of offense in 3 games against bottom feeder teams. The rest of the season they ranked 18th in scoring and 21st in yardage. With DEN, STL, and LV, those teams went 22-47 with McDaniels around.

Is that indicative of being a "very good OC"? I get it, some of the teams he led had suspect QBs and may not have been the most talented. Does this version of the Patriots seem to be positioned better than those other teams? To refresh people's memories, those teams had Brandon Marshall, Brandon Lloyd, Steven Jackson, Demarius Thomas, Eric Decker, Julian Edelman, Jakobi Meyers, Davante Adams, Darren Waller, and Josh Jacobs.

I have no idea what this version of the Patriots will look like, how well they will do, and if Drake Maye is destined to be a Top 5 QB for years to come. I'm just pointing out that things have been far from smooth sailing for McDaniels in times when he didn't have Brady to work with. And he's taking over an offense that ranked Bottom 3 in most offensive categories last year. The offense should be better than last year (it would be very hard to be worse . . . but I'm not sure how much better they will be. Put another way, I still think they will be below average offensively (whatever that translates to).

 

[JohnnyU]

I just watched a podcast where they said he wasn't very good against man coverage. Fifty some percent.

 

[Boston]

Josh is a vg OC.

Maybe JMD is a very good OC. The question is, how can we tell? What defines "very good"?

In the main Patriots thread, I posted that in the 7 seasons since McDaniels left NE the first time and had anyone other than Brady as a QB (between DEN, STL, NE, and LV), his teams averaged 20th in offensive points scored and 20th in offensive yardage. NE had one season ranked 6th in points and 15th in yardage in Mac Jones' first season, but most of that stemmed from scoring 150 points with nearly 1500 yards of offense in 3 games against bottom feeder teams. The rest of the season they ranked 18th in scoring and 21st in yardage. With DEN, STL, and LV, those teams went 22-47 with McDaniels around.

Is that indicative of being a "very good OC"? I get it, some of the teams he led had suspect QBs and may not have been the most talented. Does this version of the Patriots seem to be positioned better than those other teams? To refresh people's memories, those teams had Brandon Marshall, Brandon Lloyd, Steven Jackson, Demarius Thomas, Eric Decker, Julian Edelman, Jakobi Meyers, Davante Adams, Darren Waller, and Josh Jacobs.

I have no idea what this version of the Patriots will look like, how well they will do, and if Drake Maye is destined to be a Top 5 QB for years to come. I'm just pointing out that things have been far from smooth sailing for McDaniels in times when he didn't have Brady to work with. And he's taking over an offense that ranked Bottom 3 in most offensive categories last year. The offense should be better than last year (it would be very hard to be worse . . . but I'm not sure how much better they will be. Put another way, I still think they will be below average offensively (whatever that translates to).

We obviously disagree about McDaniel...I think some of the stats you use are very misleading due to the talent he was working with...question...as OC what players do you think he did not get the most out of?

 

[Faust]

Why new Patriots receiver Kyle Williams is ready for NFL

 

[Anarchy99]

Only 4 times last year did a NE WR have 60+ yards receiving in a game with Maye playing a full game (Douglas twice and Bourne and Boutte once). Only once did a NE receiver have more than 70 yards in a game (Douglas) with Maye. That could mean something or that could mean nothing as it pertains to Williams. Maye didn't have a go to receiver last year, and who knows who will still be on the NE roster come September. This time last year, people were anticipating good things from Douglas, Polk, Boutte, and Baker (and we saw how that turned out). The good news for Williams is that there certainly is an opportunity for him to get a lot of playing time . . . but I am still fearful the NE offense is a long way from being respectable.

 

[Boston]

Only 4 times last year did a NE WR have 60+ yards receiving in a game with Maye playing a full game (Douglas twice and Bourne and Boutte once). Only once did a NE receiver have more than 70 yards in a game (Douglas) with Maye. That could mean something or that could mean nothing as it pertains to Williams. Maye didn't have a go to receiver last year, and who knows who will still be on the NE roster come September. This time last year, people were anticipating good things from Douglas, Polk, Boutte, and Baker (and we saw how that turned out). The good news for Williams is that there certainly is an opportunity for him to get a lot of playing time . . . but I am still fearful the NE offense is a long way from being respectable.

The good news is they have a totally new coaching staff, a very well-respected veteran OC, almost an entire new O line, two new additions at WR and a potentially dynamic rookie RB…I don’t expect this is to suddenly turn into a top 10 offense but last year is irrelevant and I fully expect this to be a better offense than the disasters of the last two years.

 

[KellysHeroes]

NE just can't draft an WR since Dieon Branch; last yr folks tripped over themselves drafting Polk and Baker... now those players are floating on many of my FA pools. I'll go with my gut and pass on this one.

 

[ffmail4me]

Past doesn't always predict the future. As Boston just said, this is a totally new offense, a great young QB with huge upside, and I think most "experts" are much higher on Kyle Williams than they were on Polk or Baker last year no? I'm all in on Williams, I think he's Maye's #1 WR sooner than later, and that's something i want a piece of because Maye has a VERY bright future.

 

[menobrown]

I think most "experts" are much higher on Kyle Williams than they were on Polk or Baker last year no?

I think Polk for sure had a lot higher grades by high majority of NFL teams if not fantasy people last year.

 

[Anarchy99]

I think most "experts" are much higher on Kyle Williams than they were on Polk or Baker last year no?

I think Polk for sure had a lot higher grades by high majority of NFL teams if not fantasy people last year.

Here were the NFL.com draft grades for NE receivers from the past 10 years . . .

N'Keal Harry - 6.30
Javon Baker - 6.25
Ja'Lynn Polk - 6.21
Kyle Williams - 6.20
Kayshon Boutte - 6.10
Tre Nixon - 6.00
Tyquan Thornton - 5.97
Braxton Berrios - 5.90
Demario Douglas - 5.83
Malcolm Mitchell - 5.80
Jakobi Meyers - 5.50
Devin Lucien - 5.10

 

[menobrown]

I think most "experts" are much higher on Kyle Williams than they were on Polk or Baker last year no?

I think Polk for sure had a lot higher grades by high majority of NFL teams if not fantasy people last year.

Here were the NFL.com draft grades for NE receivers from the past 10 years . . .

N'Keal Harry - 6.30
Javon Baker - 6.25
Ja'Lynn Polk - 6.21
Kyle Williams - 6.20
Kayshon Boutte - 6.10
Tre Nixon - 6.00
Tyquan Thornton - 5.97
Braxton Berrios - 5.90
Demario Douglas - 5.83
Malcolm Mitchell - 5.80
Jakobi Meyers - 5.50
Devin Lucien - 5.10

That's just Lance Zierliens opinion, still will strongly contend NFL teams by and large, including NE, had a lot higher grade on Polk.

 

[Faust]

Carlos A. Lopez
#Patriots WR Kyle Williams is more than prepared for the start of Rookie Minicamp on Friday — Williams has been hard at work with WRs Coach Dee McKneely!

New England’s rookie looks FAST

( @CoachDeeWR IG) | @k_mmoneyyyy

https://x.com/lostalkspats/status/1920412054713700391?s=61

 

[JohnnyU]

I think most "experts" are much higher on Kyle Williams than they were on Polk or Baker last year no?

I think Polk for sure had a lot higher grades by high majority of NFL teams if not fantasy people last year.

Here were the NFL.com draft grades for NE receivers from the past 10 years . . .

N'Keal Harry - 6.30
Javon Baker - 6.25
Ja'Lynn Polk - 6.21
Kyle Williams - 6.20
Kayshon Boutte - 6.10
Tre Nixon - 6.00
Tyquan Thornton - 5.97
Braxton Berrios - 5.90
Demario Douglas - 5.83
Malcolm Mitchell - 5.80
Jakobi Meyers - 5.50
Devin Lucien - 5.10

What is it with NE and WRs?

 

[rockaction]

I think most "experts" are much higher on Kyle Williams than they were on Polk or Baker last year no?

I think Polk for sure had a lot higher grades by high majority of NFL teams if not fantasy people last year.

Here were the NFL.com draft grades for NE receivers from the past 10 years . . .

N'Keal Harry - 6.30
Javon Baker - 6.25
Ja'Lynn Polk - 6.21
Kyle Williams - 6.20
Kayshon Boutte - 6.10
Tre Nixon - 6.00
Tyquan Thornton - 5.97
Braxton Berrios - 5.90
Demario Douglas - 5.83
Malcolm Mitchell - 5.80
Jakobi Meyers - 5.50
Devin Lucien - 5.10

What is it with NE and WRs?

Meyers is a quality receiver who was their WR1 for a year and went to LV and was a really good WR2 to Davante. And NE has no excuse for letting him walk because the salary was eminently reasonable. They have nobody to blame but themselves. I think they got it right with Williams but we will see.

 

[Lansdowne]

I think most "experts" are much higher on Kyle Williams than they were on Polk or Baker last year no?

I think Polk for sure had a lot higher grades by high majority of NFL teams if not fantasy people last year.

Here were the NFL.com draft grades for NE receivers from the past 10 years . . .

N'Keal Harry - 6.30
Javon Baker - 6.25
Ja'Lynn Polk - 6.21
Kyle Williams - 6.20
Kayshon Boutte - 6.10
Tre Nixon - 6.00
Tyquan Thornton - 5.97
Braxton Berrios - 5.90
Demario Douglas - 5.83
Malcolm Mitchell - 5.80
Jakobi Meyers - 5.50
Devin Lucien - 5.10

What is it with NE and WRs?

I think it’s just always been a blind spot in BB’s evaluations of WR’s, and that could include the 2024 class considering they used intel from BB’s scouting team of the 2023 college season. Mayo may have been the coach for 2024 but he was in over his head and completely directionless. BB had a few hits but you have to go past the 10-year example to find them (Edelman in 2009, Branch in 2002). Edelman’s 2019 (fantasy WR13 on the year) is the best single season performance in fantasy by a BB-drafted Patriots WR. There were also guys like Malcolm Mitchell and David Givens who contributed to Super Bowl winners but had short careers due to injury.

Before BB there were guys like Terry Glenn, Vincent Brisby (had a fantasy WR25 finish in 1995), Irving Fryar, and Stanley Morgan, who had five fantasy-WR1 seasons as a Patriot (WR1 in 1979, WR2 in 1986, WR8 in 1980, WR9 in 1982, and WR11 in 1981). They’ve never drafted a HOFer at WR but they’ve drafted some fantasy-useful WR’s on occasion. What does all this mean for Kyle Williams? Probably nothing because eventually the team will figure it out, just like how it took the Chiefs 54 years to finally figure out how to draft a franchise QB. I don’t know if Williams will be a hit. I’m not certain but I am hopeful. I was less optimistic about Polk, who they reached on last year and was already considered a low ceiling guy when they drafted him. The fantasy buzz was mainly due to the opportunity with a wide-open WR room. That narrative may apply to Williams too but they are two different types of receivers.

 

[Faust]

Kyle Williams - MockDraftable

Kyle Williams - PlayerProfiler

 

[Boston]

I think most "experts" are much higher on Kyle Williams than they were on Polk or Baker last year no?

I think Polk for sure had a lot higher grades by high majority of NFL teams if not fantasy people last year.

Here were the NFL.com draft grades for NE receivers from the past 10 years . . .

N'Keal Harry - 6.30
Javon Baker - 6.25
Ja'Lynn Polk - 6.21
Kyle Williams - 6.20
Kayshon Boutte - 6.10
Tre Nixon - 6.00
Tyquan Thornton - 5.97
Braxton Berrios - 5.90
Demario Douglas - 5.83
Malcolm Mitchell - 5.80
Jakobi Meyers - 5.50
Devin Lucien - 5.10

What is it with NE and WRs?

Meyers is a quality receiver who was their WR1 for a year and went to LV and was a really good WR2 to Davante. And NE has no excuse for letting him walk because the salary was eminently reasonable. They have nobody to blame but themselves. I think they got it right with Williams but we will see.

There were rumors of tension between Meyers and Jordan's boyfriend because they should definitely not have let him walk for the contract he signed which was very reasonable...funny part about all of this is two of the WRs they actually developed were projects in Edelman a 7th round QB from Kent State and Meyers who was undrafted and converted from QB to WR at NC State...so odd they can figure those out but then draft a stiff like Harry in the first round.

 

[JohnnyU]

I think most "experts" are much higher on Kyle Williams than they were on Polk or Baker last year no?

I think Polk for sure had a lot higher grades by high majority of NFL teams if not fantasy people last year.

Here were the NFL.com draft grades for NE receivers from the past 10 years . . .

N'Keal Harry - 6.30
Javon Baker - 6.25
Ja'Lynn Polk - 6.21
Kyle Williams - 6.20
Kayshon Boutte - 6.10
Tre Nixon - 6.00
Tyquan Thornton - 5.97
Braxton Berrios - 5.90
Demario Douglas - 5.83
Malcolm Mitchell - 5.80
Jakobi Meyers - 5.50
Devin Lucien - 5.10

What is it with NE and WRs?

I think it’s just always been a blind spot in BB’s evaluations of WR’s, and that could include the 2024 class considering they used intel from BB’s scouting team of the 2023 college season. Mayo may have been the coach for 2024 but he was in over his head and completely directionless. BB had a few hits but you have to go past the 10-year example to find them (Edelman in 2009, Branch in 2002). Edelman’s 2019 (fantasy WR13 on the year) is the best single season performance in fantasy by a BB-drafted Patriots WR. There were also guys like Malcolm Mitchell and David Givens who contributed to Super Bowl winners but had short careers due to injury.

Before BB there were guys like Terry Glenn, Vincent Brisby (had a fantasy WR25 finish in 1995), Irving Fryar, and Stanley Morgan, who had five fantasy-WR1 seasons as a Patriot (WR1 in 1979, WR2 in 1986, WR8 in 1980, WR9 in 1982, and WR11 in 1981). They’ve never drafted a HOFer at WR but they’ve drafted some fantasy-useful WR’s on occasion. What does all this mean for Kyle Williams? Probably nothing because eventually the team will figure it out, just like how it took the Chiefs 54 years to finally figure out how to draft a franchise QB. I don’t know if Williams will be a hit. I’m not certain but I am hopeful. I was less optimistic about Polk, who they reached on last year and was already considered a low ceiling guy when they drafted him. The fantasy buzz was mainly due to the opportunity with a wide-open WR room. That narrative may apply to Williams too but they are two different types of receivers.

It's pretty sad to have go back so far to fiind minor value in WRs or pull the but...but...Jakobi Meyers card. Plaiin and simple they need to re-evaluate their WR scouting department, because it sucks. The main reason I'm being so hard on them for that is because I really like how they are constructing their team otherwise.

 

[KellysHeroes]

I think most "experts" are much higher on Kyle Williams than they were on Polk or Baker last year no?

I think Polk for sure had a lot higher grades by high majority of NFL teams if not fantasy people last year.

Here were the NFL.com draft grades for NE receivers from the past 10 years . . .

N'Keal Harry - 6.30
Javon Baker - 6.25
Ja'Lynn Polk - 6.21
Kyle Williams - 6.20
Kayshon Boutte - 6.10
Tre Nixon - 6.00
Tyquan Thornton - 5.97
Braxton Berrios - 5.90
Demario Douglas - 5.83
Malcolm Mitchell - 5.80
Jakobi Meyers - 5.50
Devin Lucien - 5.10

so Kyle is worse than Polk, Baker and oh gawd Harry... yeah, I'm using my mid 2nd on other players

 

[Anarchy99]

What is it with NE and WRs?

1) BB and his ego felt that the NE offense was plug and play and that Brady could make it work with anyone.
2) McDaniels' scheme is said to be very complicated and hard to learn.
3) The scouting department suggested taking guys that, well, were not that great.

Commenting on those:
1) We've learning as time goes by that it was way more Brady than it was the system. And replacing Brady wasn't that easy.
2) McDaniels is back again, which IMO, is a potential red flag for Williams. How many WR successfully were developed under McDaniels on any of his teams?
3) The same dolts that were there to scout and suggest the WRs that didn't work out are still there (even if BB was the one that signed on the dotted line).
4) Some of the WR picks NE made the last few years were praised after the draft . . . and we know how those guys turned out.
5) I am not sure Vrabel and his talent evaluators drafted all that great at the WR position either over the years (but still probably better than NE did).

 

[JohnnyU]

What is it with NE and WRs?

1) BB and his ego felt that the NE offense was plug and play and that Brady could make it work with anyone.
2) McDaniels' scheme is said to be very complicated and hard to learn.
3) The scouting department suggested taking guys that, well, were not that great.

Commenting on those:
1) We've learning as time goes by that it was way more Brady than it was the system. And replacing Brady wasn't that easy.
2) McDaniels is back again, which IMO, is a potential red flag for Williams. How many WR successfully were developed under McDaniels on any of his teams?
3) The same dolts that were there to scout and suggest the WRs that didn't work out are still there (even if BB was the one that signed on the dotted line).
4) Some of the WR picks NE made the last few years were praised after the draft . . . and we know how those guys turned out.
5) I am not sure Vrabel and his talent evaluators drafted all that great at the WR either over the years (but still probably better than NE did).

Great post. No one on this board knows that team better than you and your post makes a lot of sense....to me at least.

 

[ffmail4me]

So then the take away is the Patriots are due to FINALLY hit on a WR. Got it. Williams is that guy!

 

[pinkstapler]

So then the take away is the Patriots are due to FINALLY hit on a WR. Got it. Williams is that guy!

"I flipped this quarter 5 times, and 5 times it's come up tails. It's BOUND to be heads this time!"

 

[Anarchy99]

So then the take away is the Patriots are due to FINALLY hit on a WR. Got it. Williams is that guy!

"I flipped this quarter 5 times, and 5 times it's come up tails. It's BOUND to be heads this time!"

When your wife has a headache every night, buying her more and more ibuprofen won't make a difference. The cure is a new convertible or a trip to Cancun. The Patriots are still taking the save money and draft capital strategy approach by buying aspirin to solve their WR issues.

 

[greenmountaingoat]

Meyers is a quality receiver who was their WR1 for a year and went to LV and was a really good WR2 to Davante. And NE has no excuse for letting him walk because the salary was eminently reasonable. They have nobody to blame but themselves. I think they got it right with Williams but we will see.

Strictly speaking, there was an excuse. https://www.nfl.com/news/patriots-w...teral-i-didn-t-see-chandler-jones-at-the-time

 

[rockaction]

Meyers is a quality receiver who was their WR1 for a year and went to LV and was a really good WR2 to Davante. And NE has no excuse for letting him walk because the salary was eminently reasonable. They have nobody to blame but themselves. I think they got it right with Williams but we will see.

Strictly speaking, there was an excuse. https://www.nfl.com/news/patriots-w...teral-i-didn-t-see-chandler-jones-at-the-time

Totally forgot about that play. Oh my.

 

[JohnnyU]

So then the take away is the Patriots are due to FINALLY hit on a WR. Got it. Williams is that guy!

"I flipped this quarter 5 times, and 5 times it's come up tails. It's BOUND to be heads this time!"

When your wife has a headache every night, buying her more and more ibuprofen won't make a difference. The cure is a new convertible or a trip to Cancun. The Patriots are still taking the save money and draft capital strategy approach by buying aspirin to solve their WR issues.

My wife gives great headache
-Rodney Dangerfield

 

[Anarchy99]

My wife gives great headache
-Rodney Dangerfield

Since I've already taken this discussion off the rails, Rodney lived in my hometown where I grew up. He was a frequent shopper at the grocery store I worked at in high school. One day he came in with Sean Connery to buy beer and snacks before they went golfing. He acted just like he did in Caddyshack (This is the worst looking hat I ever saw. You buy a hat like this, I bet you get a free bowl of soup.) I rang the two of them up, and he gave me $100 tip (which at the time pretty much matched my entire paycheck). He let me and my friend interview him at his house for a project we did at school. Great, great guy.

 

[JohnnyU]

My wife gives great headache
-Rodney Dangerfield

Since I've already taken this discussion off the rails, Rodney lived in my hometown where I grew up. He was a frequent shopper at the grocery store I worked at in high school. One day he came in with Sean Connery to buy beer and snacks before they went golfing. He acted just like he did in Caddyshack (This is the worst looking hat I ever saw. You buy a hat like this, I bet you get a free bowl of soup.) I rang the two of them up, and he gave me $100 tip (which at the time pretty much matched my entire paycheck). He let me and my friend interview him at his house for a project we did at school. Great, great guy.

...and that is a great story.

 

[Boston]

So then the take away is the Patriots are due to FINALLY hit on a WR. Got it. Williams is that guy!

"I flipped this quarter 5 times, and 5 times it's come up tails. It's BOUND to be heads this time!"

When your wife has a headache every night, buying her more and more ibuprofen won't make a difference. The cure is a new convertible or a trip to Cancun. The Patriots are still taking the save money and draft capital strategy approach by buying aspirin to solve their WR issues.

What should they have done this offseason? They made a silly offer to Godwin that was rejected, DKM did not appear to have interest in them, Kupp went back home and they used their first round pick on a LT which IMO was a far bigger need...they could have used their #2 on a WR but I have zero issues on taking Henderson...hopefully Diggs and his team-friendly contract is a good bridge ,Williams works out and Hollins at least plays like a competent NFL-level WR...no one doubt they still need to upgrade this unit but the roster was a complete mess with holes everywhere and I think it is unrealistic to think they all could be addressed in one offseason and looking at the available free agents the options at WR were limited so I am glad they did not do what Jordon's BF did and sign someone like Agholor to a bad contract......between free agency and the draft many needs were addressed and if enough of these moves hit I fully expect them to go hard at WR next offseason...the Pats have been cheap in the past but that is absolutely not the case this offseason.

 

[Anarchy99]

What should they have done this offseason? They made a silly offer to Godwin that was rejected, DKM did not appear to have interest in them, Kupp went back home and they used their first round pick on a LT which IMO was a far bigger need...they could have used their #2 on a WR but I have zero issues on taking Henderson...hopefully Diggs and his team-friendly contract is a good bridge ,Williams works out and Hollins at least plays like a competent NFL-level WR...no one doubt they still need to upgrade this unit but the roster was a complete mess with holes everywhere and I think it is unrealistic to think they all could be addressed in one offseason and looking at the available free agents the options at WR were limited so I am glad they did not do what Jordon's BF did and sign someone like Agholor to a bad contract......between free agency and the draft many needs were addressed and if enough of these moves hit I fully expect them to go hard at WR next offseason...the Pats have been cheap in the past but that is absolutely not the case this offseason.

I was commenting about many years' worth of WR woes. Maybe adding a soon to be 32-year-old coming off a major injury in Diggs, signing another 32-year-old moving to his 6th team in Hollins, and taking the 9th WR off the board in Williams will improve their WR corps. It's too soon to tell.

I get that THIS OFFSEASON they didn't have a lot of options. But looking back across 25 or 30 drafts, they didn't have much success drafting WRs. They haven't made many attempts to sign, trade, or draft top tier talent at WR. IMO, they've gone out of their way to go more no frills than first class. Even this regime could have made a trade to bring in an established WR or two without investing a ton in terms of assets or draft picks. I would probably have preferred that than going with Diggs / Hollins / Williams. They had the money and a ton of picks. They could have had two legit WRs for probably some combination of Day 2 and Day 3 picks. I don't think Diggs is going to be fully healthy and he's got a limited shelf life. And I am not convinced that relying on guys that weren't in the top 5 of their draft class is the best strategy to land a top producer. But they did what they did, and we are where we are.

 

[Boston]

What should they have done this offseason? They made a silly offer to Godwin that was rejected, DKM did not appear to have interest in them, Kupp went back home and they used their first round pick on a LT which IMO was a far bigger need...they could have used their #2 on a WR but I have zero issues on taking Henderson...hopefully Diggs and his team-friendly contract is a good bridge ,Williams works out and Hollins at least plays like a competent NFL-level WR...no one doubt they still need to upgrade this unit but the roster was a complete mess with holes everywhere and I think it is unrealistic to think they all could be addressed in one offseason and looking at the available free agents the options at WR were limited so I am glad they did not do what Jordon's BF did and sign someone like Agholor to a bad contract......between free agency and the draft many needs were addressed and if enough of these moves hit I fully expect them to go hard at WR next offseason...the Pats have been cheap in the past but that is absolutely not the case this offseason.

I was commenting about many years' worth of WR woes. Maybe adding a soon to be 32-year-old coming off a major injury in Diggs, signing another 32-year-old moving to his 6th team in Hollins, and taking the 9th WR off the board in Williams will improve their WR corps. It's too soon to tell.

I get that THIS OFFSEASON they didn't have a lot of options. But looking back across 25 or 30 drafts, they didn't have much success drafting WRs. They haven't made many attempts to sign, trade, or draft top tier talent at WR. IMO, they've gone out of their way to go more no frills than first class. Even this regime could have made a trade to bring in an established WR or two without investing a ton in terms of assets or draft picks. I would probably have preferred that than going with Diggs / Hollins / Williams. They had the money and a ton of picks. They could have had two legit WRs for probably some combination of Day 2 and Day 3 picks. I don't think Diggs is going to be fully healthy and he's got a limited shelf life. And I am not convinced that relying on guys that weren't in the top 5 of their draft class is the best strategy to land a top producer. But they did what they did, and we are where we are.

You will get no disagreements about their past history with WRs because it is a train wreck but you are now blaming the Vrabel regime for the mistakes of BB...sure Wolf is still around but right now I am giving the full benefit of doubt to Vrabel, Cowden and Stretch (all three who Wolf has said has helped him understand the process this offseason) until I see otherwise....your plan is very generic with no names but who exactly would you have realistically brought in that was available...would you have taken McMillan instead of Campbell? If so, who would you have brought in at LT? Would you have tried to overwhelm DKM with a over-the-top contract and given Seattle your #2 instead of signing Milton Williams and drafting Henderson? If Williams is a bust and Diggs ends up being damaged goods and we are in the same spot next year after FA and the draft I'll be the first to take a shot at them but for this offseason they spent a ton of $ and unfortunately WR was a very weak group in free agency and they chose to use draft capital elsewhere and while it wouldn't bother me to have taken another WR I don't have an issue at all with how they used their picks...this was not going to be a quick rebuild but overall I think they have dramatically changed the roster after a few years of inept roster construction.