Marion Barber (1 Viewer)

[BigJim®]

There's a difference, to me at least, between drafting a RB and drafting a RB in the 1st round.

Of course there is. A 1st round pick would be considered capable of being both a secondary contributor in a normal offense [i.e. a change of pace back] and potentially a safety net if the primary RB goes down with injury. I don't disagree that is probably why they used a 1st round pick on Felix.

BigJim, you are so enamored with Barber that you just refuse to see past it. I feel bad for you, as you will be sorely disappointed this season.

And you, Felix Jones. What's the point of a post like this? Last I recall you and I were in agreement that Barber should go in the late 1st, and be worthy of that slot. You suggested you were targetting him yourself at 1.9 in a recent draft. Yet Barber will leave me "sorely disappointed"? How so?

 

[switz]

There's a difference, to me at least, between drafting a RB and drafting a RB in the 1st round.

Of course there is. A 1st round pick would be considered capable of being both a secondary contributor in a normal offense [i.e. a change of pace back] and potentially a safety net if the primary RB goes down with injury. I don't disagree that is probably why they used a 1st round pick on Felix.

BigJim, you are so enamored with Barber that you just refuse to see past it. I feel bad for you, as you will be sorely disappointed this season.

And you, Felix Jones. What's the point of a post like this? Last I recall you and I were in agreement that Barber should go in the late 1st, and be worthy of that slot. You suggested you were targetting him yourself at 1.9 in a recent draft. Yet Barber will leave me "sorely disappointed"? How so?

Because there is a huge drop off from the top-5 to the top-10, and you seem to be in the group that view Barber as a top-5 RB. I don't see him finishing top-5. Yes, I had him targeted at 1.9, but that draft was also skewed because RBs who had BYE weeks after week 5 were rated higher being only a 5 week league. The fact he wouldn't miss any time in those first 5 weeks, as well as my assumption that they will work in Felix more and more over time and that Barber will be fresher at the beginning of the season, led me to think Barber for the first 5 weeks will be great. But for the whole season I have him pegged at around 11th-12th overall RB.

 

[switz]

Barber was getting the lion's share of the meaningful carries by mid-season last year, so I don't think his upside is much higher than how he performed last year. As many have pointed out, Felix Jones will most likely get at least what Julius was getting, most likely more. Add to that the fact that they seem to prefer the pass in the red zone. Also, Choice is a respectable option so he may get a few carries as well. All in all, I just don't think he has the upside of the other top 3-5 backs.

Felix > Julius

so, why would Barbers carries go way up.

plus fantasy playoffs he has Pit, NYG and Balt

Because Felix is a change of pace back that's specifically designed to compliment Barber ala Reggie Bush to Deuce McAllister Reggie's rookie year. Julius was a 3-down back that shared a similar skill set so he and Barber shared time. I think Felix will play a more specialized role.

Interestingly, this was reported on ESPN's Camp Confidential, before any preseason games, before Jones showed how explosive he is.

Barber's punishing style is what defines him, but the Cowboys don't want to ask him to carry the ball 20 times per game. They hope to use Barber and Jones the way Sean Payton used Deuce McAllister and Reggie Bush in the Saints' playoff run two seasons ago. They've devised plays in which the backs line up together and Jones goes in motion to the slot or to the outside. The main purpose is to put elusive Jones in space and let him use his speed.

In a perfect world, Barber would carry the ball 15 to 18 times and Jones 10. The Cowboys would like to get Jones at least 12 to 15 touches per game.

You're looking at 240-288 carries by Barber. I would guess closer to 240 than 288 BTW if Jones is going to get 160 carries (10/game). And far fewer catches than the 44 he had last season, if they expect Jones to get 2-5 catches a game (32-80 on the season).Jones is too good to be limited to COP duties, and Barber runs too hard to hold up with a heavy workload. The two RBs are likely to be pretty close in overall number of touches by the end of the season.

 

[BigJim®]

There's a difference, to me at least, between drafting a RB and drafting a RB in the 1st round.

Of course there is. A 1st round pick would be considered capable of being both a secondary contributor in a normal offense [i.e. a change of pace back] and potentially a safety net if the primary RB goes down with injury. I don't disagree that is probably why they used a 1st round pick on Felix.

BigJim, you are so enamored with Barber that you just refuse to see past it. I feel bad for you, as you will be sorely disappointed this season.

And you, Felix Jones. What's the point of a post like this? Last I recall you and I were in agreement that Barber should go in the late 1st, and be worthy of that slot. You suggested you were targetting him yourself at 1.9 in a recent draft. Yet Barber will leave me "sorely disappointed"? How so?

Because there is a huge drop off from the top-5 to the top-10, and you seem to be in the group that view Barber as a top-5 RB. I don't see him finishing top-5. Yes, I had him targeted at 1.9, but that draft was also skewed because RBs who had BYE weeks after week 5 were rated higher being only a 5 week league. The fact he wouldn't miss any time in those first 5 weeks, as well as my assumption that they will work in Felix more and more over time and that Barber will be fresher at the beginning of the season, led me to think Barber for the first 5 weeks will be great. But for the whole season I have him pegged at around 11th-12th overall RB.

And, as you know, I have projected conservatively that Barber should get no less than 240 carries, which is an improvement over 2006-7, and should qualify him as a top 10 RB. I don't believe I've ever argued he's a top 5. In fact I think I said I leaned against drafting him top 5 in the Addai/Barber thread.

 

[GoinDeep]

I didn't feel like reading this entire thread, but yes...you are correct original poster. I think he will be Top 5...possibly Top 3. He will get 18-23 carries a game as Jones is lined-up wide on several of the packages and he is a beast inside the 20.

With that being said....someone has him as a 3rd round keeper in my big money league and I will take Addai (who will not perform as well) with the 5th pick.

 

[Warehouse Nasty]

Barber was getting the lion's share of the meaningful carries by mid-season last year, so I don't think his upside is much higher than how he performed last year. As many have pointed out, Felix Jones will most likely get at least what Julius was getting, most likely more. Add to that the fact that they seem to prefer the pass in the red zone. Also, Choice is a respectable option so he may get a few carries as well. All in all, I just don't think he has the upside of the other top 3-5 backs.

Felix > Julius

so, why would Barbers carries go way up.

plus fantasy playoffs he has Pit, NYG and Balt

Because Felix is a change of pace back that's specifically designed to compliment Barber ala Reggie Bush to Deuce McAllister Reggie's rookie year. Julius was a 3-down back that shared a similar skill set so he and Barber shared time. I think Felix will play a more specialized role.

Interestingly, this was reported on ESPN's Camp Confidential, before any preseason games, before Jones showed how explosive he is.

Barber's punishing style is what defines him, but the Cowboys don't want to ask him to carry the ball 20 times per game. They hope to use Barber and Jones the way Sean Payton used Deuce McAllister and Reggie Bush in the Saints' playoff run two seasons ago. They've devised plays in which the backs line up together and Jones goes in motion to the slot or to the outside. The main purpose is to put elusive Jones in space and let him use his speed.

In a perfect world, Barber would carry the ball 15 to 18 times and Jones 10. The Cowboys would like to get Jones at least 12 to 15 touches per game.

You're looking at 240-288 carries by Barber. I would guess closer to 240 than 288 BTW if Jones is going to get 160 carries (10/game). And far fewer catches than the 44 he had last season, if they expect Jones to get 2-5 catches a game (32-80 on the season).Jones is too good to be limited to COP duties, and Barber runs too hard to hold up with a heavy workload. The two RBs are likely to be pretty close in overall number of touches by the end of the season.

Yeah, I'm not thinking 20+ carries a game is going to happen, nor does it need to happen for Barber to be top 5. I DO think he needs 20+ touches a game which means he needs to be closer to 18 carries than 15 carries. To me, that right there makes all the difference between he finishing closer to RB5 or RB10 on the year because I fully expect he'll get double digit TD's.

 

[switz]

Barber was getting the lion's share of the meaningful carries by mid-season last year, so I don't think his upside is much higher than how he performed last year. As many have pointed out, Felix Jones will most likely get at least what Julius was getting, most likely more. Add to that the fact that they seem to prefer the pass in the red zone. Also, Choice is a respectable option so he may get a few carries as well. All in all, I just don't think he has the upside of the other top 3-5 backs.

Felix > Julius

so, why would Barbers carries go way up.

plus fantasy playoffs he has Pit, NYG and Balt

Because Felix is a change of pace back that's specifically designed to compliment Barber ala Reggie Bush to Deuce McAllister Reggie's rookie year. Julius was a 3-down back that shared a similar skill set so he and Barber shared time. I think Felix will play a more specialized role.

Interestingly, this was reported on ESPN's Camp Confidential, before any preseason games, before Jones showed how explosive he is.

Barber's punishing style is what defines him, but the Cowboys don't want to ask him to carry the ball 20 times per game. They hope to use Barber and Jones the way Sean Payton used Deuce McAllister and Reggie Bush in the Saints' playoff run two seasons ago. They've devised plays in which the backs line up together and Jones goes in motion to the slot or to the outside. The main purpose is to put elusive Jones in space and let him use his speed.

In a perfect world, Barber would carry the ball 15 to 18 times and Jones 10. The Cowboys would like to get Jones at least 12 to 15 touches per game.

You're looking at 240-288 carries by Barber. I would guess closer to 240 than 288 BTW if Jones is going to get 160 carries (10/game). And far fewer catches than the 44 he had last season, if they expect Jones to get 2-5 catches a game (32-80 on the season).Jones is too good to be limited to COP duties, and Barber runs too hard to hold up with a heavy workload. The two RBs are likely to be pretty close in overall number of touches by the end of the season.

Yeah, I'm not thinking 20+ carries a game is going to happen, nor does it need to happen for Barber to be top 5. I DO think he needs 20+ touches a game which means he needs to be closer to 18 carries than 15 carries. To me, that right there makes all the difference between he finishing closer to RB5 or RB10 on the year because I fully expect he'll get double digit TD's.

I don't really see that happening. This really is what the issue boils down to with Barber. Everyone who thinks he is top-5 material is relying on him increasing his workload dramatically. Last year as they increased his workload his YPC dropped off significantly, from 5.4 in games 1-8 to 4.2 in games 9-16. Additionally, his YPC on carries 16-20 was 2.0. The Cowboys just don't benefit from him getting over 15 carries a game. As far as receptions go, last season he had a career high, but this season they have a better receiving option out of the backfield in Jones, so expecting Barber to see 30-40 catches again just isn't reasonable.Also to note, he only had 10 rushing TDs last season, despite the increased workload. Partially this was due to the Cowboys passing more in the red zone. But to count on him having enough TDs to offset his lower number of carries this year is risky.

He's fun to watch, a tough player, a hard worker - but he's not a top-5 RB. The FBG hype is just way too high on him right now.

 

[Warehouse Nasty]

I don't really see that happening. This really is what the issue boils down to with Barber. Everyone who thinks he is top-5 material is relying on him increasing his workload dramatically. Last year as they increased his workload his YPC dropped off significantly, from 5.4 in games 1-8 to 4.2 in games 9-16. Additionally, his YPC on carries 16-20 was 2.0. The Cowboys just don't benefit from him getting over 15 carries a game. As far as receptions go, last season he had a career high, but this season they have a better receiving option out of the backfield in Jones, so expecting Barber to see 30-40 catches again just isn't reasonable.

Also to note, he only had 10 rushing TDs last season, despite the increased workload. Partially this was due to the Cowboys passing more in the red zone. But to count on him having enough TDs to offset his lower number of carries this year is risky.

He's fun to watch, a tough player, a hard worker - but he's not a top-5 RB. The FBG hype is just way too high on him right now.

The bolded statements above don't correlate at all. Barber actually averaged 4.83 YPC in games where he had 15 plus carries vs 4.71 YPC in games where he had under 15 carries. So, you could actually say the opposite of what you said-Cowboys could have benefitted further from giving him the ball more.

 

[switz]

I don't really see that happening. This really is what the issue boils down to with Barber. Everyone who thinks he is top-5 material is relying on him increasing his workload dramatically. Last year as they increased his workload his YPC dropped off significantly, from 5.4 in games 1-8 to 4.2 in games 9-16. Additionally, his YPC on carries 16-20 was 2.0. The Cowboys just don't benefit from him getting over 15 carries a game. As far as receptions go, last season he had a career high, but this season they have a better receiving option out of the backfield in Jones, so expecting Barber to see 30-40 catches again just isn't reasonable.

Also to note, he only had 10 rushing TDs last season, despite the increased workload. Partially this was due to the Cowboys passing more in the red zone. But to count on him having enough TDs to offset his lower number of carries this year is risky.

He's fun to watch, a tough player, a hard worker - but he's not a top-5 RB. The FBG hype is just way too high on him right now.

The bolded statements above don't correlate at all. Barber actually averaged 4.83 YPC in games where he had 15 plus carries vs 4.71 YPC in games where he had under 15 carries. So, you could actually say the opposite of what you said-Cowboys could have benefitted further from giving him the ball more.

Look up the stats. He may have had a better YPC on carries 1-15 in those games, but the higher YPC had nothing to do with carries 16-20, on which he averaged 2.0 YPC.Here

SPLIT ATT YDS AVG

Games 1-8 100 535 5.4

Games 9-16 104 440 4.2

Rush Att. 16-20 15 32 2.1

 

[Warehouse Nasty]

I don't really see that happening. This really is what the issue boils down to with Barber. Everyone who thinks he is top-5 material is relying on him increasing his workload dramatically. Last year as they increased his workload his YPC dropped off significantly, from 5.4 in games 1-8 to 4.2 in games 9-16. Additionally, his YPC on carries 16-20 was 2.0. The Cowboys just don't benefit from him getting over 15 carries a game. As far as receptions go, last season he had a career high, but this season they have a better receiving option out of the backfield in Jones, so expecting Barber to see 30-40 catches again just isn't reasonable.

Also to note, he only had 10 rushing TDs last season, despite the increased workload. Partially this was due to the Cowboys passing more in the red zone. But to count on him having enough TDs to offset his lower number of carries this year is risky.

He's fun to watch, a tough player, a hard worker - but he's not a top-5 RB. The FBG hype is just way too high on him right now.

The bolded statements above don't correlate at all. Barber actually averaged 4.83 YPC in games where he had 15 plus carries vs 4.71 YPC in games where he had under 15 carries. So, you could actually say the opposite of what you said-Cowboys could have benefitted further from giving him the ball more.

Look up the stats. He may have had a better YPC on carries 1-15 in those games, but the higher YPC had nothing to do with carries 16-20, on which he averaged 2.0 YPC.Here

SPLIT ATT YDS AVG

Games 1-8 100 535 5.4

Games 9-16 104 440 4.2

Rush Att. 16-20 15 32 2.1

Lol. Dude, really? You're taking a 15-carry sample size and making conclusions from that? I think you are going to draw your own conclusions here regardless of stats...As for me, I'm not sure where he'll finish. As I said, IMO it completely depends on if he gets the 18 carries per game or the 15 carries per game. I do think that he's around RB 9-10 with only 15 carries per game and he's around RB5 with 18 carries a game so I'd feel very comfortable drafting him in the 7 or 8 hole.

Unfortunatley for me I have pick 5...

 

[switz]

Lol. Dude, really? You're taking a 15-carry sample size and making conclusions from that? I think you are going to draw your own conclusions here regardless of stats...

That's a game worth of carries. It's not a season worth, true... but would you prefer me to go back to '05 when he had 19 carries over the 15 count, and averaged 2.7 on those? Bottom line is, even if he does AMAZING on carries 1-5, the rest of his carries for the most part are rather unproductive. The Cowboys just don't NEED to run him more than 15 times, and as last season showed his production dropped as he got more of a workload, so they are better off keeping him fresh.Heck, the Cowboys even considered trading him this offseason, and when they didn't they opted to draft another back in the first round. Contract be d@mned - that's not the hugest vote of confidnce.

As for me, I'm not sure where he'll finish. As I said, IMO it completely depends on if he gets the 18 carries per game or the 15 carries per game. I do think that he's around RB 9-10 with only 15 carries per game and he's around RB5 with 18 carries a game so I'd feel very comfortable drafting him in the 7 or 8 hole.

Unfortunatley for me I have pick 5...

At least you seem reasonable. I'm not arguing his talent, that's for another time, another place. But as far as his opportunity goes - he's just not going to get enough opportunity to finish top-5.

 

[BigJim®]

Lol. Dude, really? You're taking a 15-carry sample size and making conclusions from that? I think you are going to draw your own conclusions here regardless of stats...

That's a game worth of carries. It's not a season worth, true... but would you prefer me to go back to '05 when he had 19 carries over the 15 count, and averaged 2.7 on those? Bottom line is, even if he does AMAZING on carries 1-5, the rest of his carries for the most part are rather unproductive. The Cowboys just don't NEED to run him more than 15 times, and as last season showed his production dropped as he got more of a workload, so they are better off keeping him fresh.Heck, the Cowboys even considered trading him this offseason, and when they didn't they opted to draft another back in the first round. Contract be d@mned - that's not the hugest vote of confidnce.

As for me, I'm not sure where he'll finish. As I said, IMO it completely depends on if he gets the 18 carries per game or the 15 carries per game. I do think that he's around RB 9-10 with only 15 carries per game and he's around RB5 with 18 carries a game so I'd feel very comfortable drafting him in the 7 or 8 hole.

Unfortunatley for me I have pick 5...

At least you seem reasonable. I'm not arguing his talent, that's for another time, another place. But as far as his opportunity goes - he's just not going to get enough opportunity to finish top-5.

Granted, some of the stuff you are throwing out there is better than relying on a random post from "cowboydude" for support... but wow. What a truly uninspiring list of anti-Barber rationales. When you aren't capable of dispelling 'trade rumors' as rhetoric after a team committed $19 million in guarantees, I think that's officially rock bottom. Please quit digging... I think you've made your point here. And when I say "point" - I'll leave that to people's imagination.