Mark Blyth this guy gets it (1 Viewer)

[NCCommish]

I thought I would post some videos from Mark Blyth. This guy is the only one I see talking sense about the socio-economic situation we find ourselves in.

I am starting with the Athens Live interview that went viral and really launched him. Interestingly even though he is talking mostly about Europe it really applies to the US.

Athens Live

I was going to do these as individual posts but in retrospect that seems dumb. So I am going to give you a list of them so you can just watch them from this post.

This next video is American specific. In it Blyth explains why you can't lay Trump at the feet of Nazis, racists, etc. It's still the economy

Mark Blyth: "Global Trumpism" And The Revolt Against The Creditor Class

By the way he was also right about Italy. So that's Brexit, Trump and Italy. He seems to feel pretty strongly that the National Front will do well in France.

This one is pretty long but well worth it. He fleshes out Global Trumpism

Mark Blyth ─ Global Trumpism

That's a nice start I'll add more if it seems there is interest.

This one is a little older but it deal with the problems of Austerity. You also get a pretty good summary of his credentials.

Mark Blyth: "Austerity - The History of a Dangerous Idea" | Talks at Google

 

[Man of Constant Sorrow]

I recently watched a few of the other Blyth vids you've posted NCC...including the longer one..."Global Trumpism"...or something like that. Good stuff.

Watching this one now. 

 

[NCCommish]

I recently watched a few of the other Blyth vids you've posted NCC...including the longer one..."Global Trumpism"...or something like that. Good stuff.

Watching this one now. 

Glad you enjoyed them. I figured i'd put some out here because a lot of people won't go into the Trump thread and also they get buried in the back and forth.

 

[Dedfin]

NCC, I have watched the videos you posted of this guy and he's really impressive.  I think you should make a list of them in your first post so everyone has an easy way to access them.  Thanks!

 

[NCCommish]

NCC, I have watched the videos you posted of this guy and he's really impressive.  I think you should make a list of them in your first post so everyone has an easy way to access them.  Thanks!

Yeah I was going to do them individually but I think you're right.

 

[Da Guru]

I would like to have a few pints with him.

 

[NCCommish]

I would like to have a few pints with him.

Agreed.

 

[Man of Constant Sorrow]

I still need to learn a lot more about Blyth and his work, but from what I have been exposed to so far (thnx to NCC), impresses me.

Throughout the long political thread, I posted quite often about my anecdotal experiences here in KY among the working class. As they were only anecdotal, I valued them, but they were/are not a very strong foundation on their own. Also, much of what I experienced was hard to verify or refute (as a broader phenomenon) via the common polls and studies (at least those I had/have been exposed to).

If I am understanding Blyth correctly, he gives me a stronger belief in my own anecdotes. Which, shortly summarized are: 

While racism and xenophobia do exists, to a much larger degree than I and most others like, within the Trumpism movement, they are not nearly as large of a driver/factor as is often presented/assumed.

Plus, Blyth adeptly outlines how & why the current Democratic Party has itself to blame in regards to losing the working class in the 2016 elections (national, state, local). And it's not all about stupidity, racism & xenophobia.

I'm sorry that my 1st presentation here is rather short and simple, but I hope it can lead to a deeper discussion on what Blyth offers. As I learn more, I hope to get a little deeper in describing what I take away from his work.

 

[Sinn Fein]

 

[NCCommish]

I still need to learn a lot more about Blyth and his work, but from what I have been exposed to so far (thnx to NCC), impresses me.

Throughout the long political thread, I posted quite often about my anecdotal experiences here in KY among the working class. As they were only anecdotal, I valued them, but they were/are not a very strong foundation on their own. Also, much of what I experienced was hard to verify or refute (as a broader phenomenon) via the common polls and studies (at least those I had/have been exposed to).

If I am understanding Blyth correctly, he gives me a stronger belief in my own anecdotes. Which, shortly summarized are: 

While racism and xenophobia do exists, to a much larger degree than I and most others like, within the Trumpism movement, they are not nearly as large of a driver/factor as is often presented/assumed.

Plus, Blyth adeptly outlines how & why the current Democratic Party has itself to blame in regards to losing the working class in the 2016 elections (national, state, local). And it's not all about stupidity, racism & xenophobia.

I'm sorry that my 1st presentation here is rather short and simple, but I hope it can lead to a deeper discussion on what Blyth offers. As I learn more, I hope to get a little deeper in describing what I take away from his work.

This is my experience as well.

 

[rockaction]

This is my experience as well.

Christopher Caldwell offers a similar analysis from the right in The Weekly Standard. He foresaw Brexit, the rise of Trump, Muslim immigration problems in Europe, etc. 

 

[The Commish]

 

 

[Man in the yellow hat]

While racism and xenophobia do exists, to a much larger degree than I and most others like, within the Trumpism movement, they are not nearly as large of a driver/factor as is often presented/assumed.

Plus, Blyth adeptly outlines how & why the current Democratic Party has itself to blame in regards to losing the working class in the 2016 elections (national, state, local). And it's not all about stupidity, racism & xenophobia.

I'm sorry that my 1st presentation here is rather short and simple, but I hope it can lead to a deeper discussion on what Blyth offers. As I learn more, I hope to get a little deeper in describing what I take away from his work.

I agree completely on this. Particularly, your first point is the one that drives me the most crazy. I don't believe we are any more or less racist or sexist than we were before this election. There is just no way the needle moves that fast with these things. The fact that people continue to rail against racism/sexism, and label that the 'reason' trump won, it just frustrates me. It misses the bigger point, which is economic. Blyth seems to do a nice job bringing this to the forefront.

And I'm with you, I need to spend more time with Blyth. 

 

[Man of Constant Sorrow]

I agree completely on this. Particularly, your first point is the one that drives me the most crazy. I don't believe we are any more or less racist or sexist than we were before this election. There is just no way the needle moves that fast with these things. The fact that people continue to rail against racism/sexism, and label that the 'reason' trump won, it just frustrates me. It misses the bigger point, which is economic. Blyth seems to do a nice job bringing this to the forefront.

And I'm with you, I need to spend more time with Blyth. 

It's good to see us "Mans" sticking together. 

 

[NCCommish]

By the way guys if you run across a video you like and want to add feel free. I'll put it in the first post for you as well. Going to add one myself in a minute.

 

[higgins]

 

 

[tommyGunZ]

I appreciate you trying to throw Trump supporters a life raft NCC, but the idea that Trump support is largely based on economic hardship has been thoroughly debunked.  

 

[NCCommish]

So I had watched bits of the Austerity video but just watched the whole thing. It is so densely packed with info I need to watch it again.

 

[NCCommish]

I appreciate you trying to throw Trump supporters a life raft NCC, but the idea that Trump support is largely based on economic hardship has been thoroughly debunked.  

Have you watched any of these? Regardless this thread isn't just about that and I think if you do watch them you will have your eyes opened to some stuff including why people who have been economically disenfranchised voted the way they did. Further I have yet to see anything that debunks that. Yes some racist, Nazi, misogynists, voted for Trump. But if that's all it took Steve King would have been president long ago. When you see the correlations of poverty to Trump voters that hasn't been debunked. When you see the correlation of counties with high overdose rates which has an economic component to Trump voters that hasn't been debunked. Now do some of those people fear immigrants as job competitors? Sure but this is still primarily an economic argument. So much like the argument of nature versus nurture it's really a mix. And it is far to easy, far to self serving to claim it's all about racism.

 

[Man of Constant Sorrow]

I appreciate you trying to throw Trump supporters a life raft NCC, but the idea that Trump support is largely based on economic hardship has been thoroughly debunked.  

I have thoroughly enjoyed the Blyth videos here Tommy, but, I was also very interested in finding research to counter Blyth...as a matter of rigor.

I would be very interested in viewing/reading any research that you have to debunk this perspective. It can only help the conversation in my opinion.

 

[tommyGunZ]

I have thoroughly enjoyed the Blyth videos here Tommy, but, I was also very interested in finding research to counter Blyth...as a matter of rigor.

I would be very interested in viewing/reading any research that you have to debunk this perspective. It can only help the conversation in my opinion.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/08/12/a-massive-new-study-debunks-a-widespread-theory-for-donald-trumps-success/?utm_term=.4feafb89d24b

TLR - Trump's supporters are relatively economically well off and haven't suffered from the negative impacts of globalization disproportionately.  IOW, it ain't the economy, it's something else.  

 

[Man of Constant Sorrow]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/08/12/a-massive-new-study-debunks-a-widespread-theory-for-donald-trumps-success/?utm_term=.4feafb89d24b

TLR - Trump's supporters are relatively economically well off and haven't suffered from the negative impacts of globalization disproportionately.  IOW, it ain't the economy, it's something else.  

Thank you. Don't worry about the TLR, I promise I will read it in full. 

 

[NCCommish]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/08/12/a-massive-new-study-debunks-a-widespread-theory-for-donald-trumps-success/?utm_term=.4feafb89d24b

TLR - Trump's supporters are relatively economically well off and haven't suffered from the negative impacts of globalization disproportionately.  IOW, it ain't the economy, it's something else.  

This study flies in the face of multiple other studies that I mentioned in my response to you. And again we aren't really talking mainstream Republican voters which would be a lot of what is in this study. Who are of course white and better off. We are trying to find out how Trump broke the thin coalition Democrats had been winning on. We are trying to find out why people who voted twice for Obama voted for Trump. Did they suddenly become racists? No they didn't. Why did blue collar working class Democrats for life vote for Trump? Also just now decided to try on racism? Not likely. So we need more than one study that amazingly affirms what people want to hear before we call it a day and move on.

 

[Homer J Simpson]

I was actually gonna PM you for this guy's name after you posted him in the Trump thread.  Thanks! 

 

[NCCommish]

And really I didn't start this thread for just that discussion. I also wanted to examine and talk about the economic policies that have led to a country where the following is true:

-38 percent of all American workers made less than $20,000 last year.

-51 percent of all American workers made less than $30,000 last year.

-62 percent of all American workers made less than $40,000 last year.

-71 percent of all American workers made less than $50,000 last year.

That is unsustainable.

 

[NCCommish]

I was actually gonna PM you for this guy's name after you posted him in the Trump thread.  Thanks! 

No problem. I think we can learn quite a lot and I think you will find he makes a convincing case that just maybe we have been fibbed to a bit on how we ended up here.

 

[Gr00vus]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/08/12/a-massive-new-study-debunks-a-widespread-theory-for-donald-trumps-success/?utm_term=.4feafb89d24b

TLR - Trump's supporters are relatively economically well off and haven't suffered from the negative impacts of globalization disproportionately.  IOW, it ain't the economy, it's something else.  

I'm not sure I completely agree with your summary. From the article:

Trump's supporters are blue-collar...

in places with low economic mobility, such as Raleigh, N.C., and Indianapolis, [where children] struggled just to do as well as their parents in adulthood...Trump was especially popular in these parts of the country...

Respondents were also asked, however, whether they felt they were struggling to maintain their standard of living or whether they felt comfortable in their situation and that they were moving up. Those who said they felt they were struggling were more likely to support Trump...

those who lived in places where people were less healthy had more favorable views of Trump. In these communities, whites are dying faster, there is more obesity, and people report more health problems...some of this probably has roots in cultural practices — diet and exercise habits, patterns of drinking and smoking, and more...The places where Trump is popular are places where people have been unhealthy for a long time...

those who view Trump favorably are more likely to be found in white enclaves — racially isolated Zip codes where the amount of diversity is lower than in surrounding areas.

Seems like there's a significant component of economic concern in what motivated Trump supporters. I don't know that the poor health correlation can be said to be an economic concern. The last part, the correlation between supporting Trump and coming from racially/culturally homogenous neighborhoods speaks to your point though.

ETA: It's also worth noting that this article is from August 2016, before the Presidential election. It seems reasonable to assume this analysis applies to the demographics that ultimately voted Trump into the White House as well, but that's still an assumption unless/until we get a similar study on the November election demographics.

 

[Ilov80s]

Have you watched any of these? Regardless this thread isn't just about that and I think if you do watch them you will have your eyes opened to some stuff including why people who have been economically disenfranchised voted the way they did. Further I have yet to see anything that debunks that. Yes some racist, Nazi, misogynists, voted for Trump. But if that's all it took Steve King would have been president long ago. When you see the correlations of poverty to Trump voters that hasn't been debunked. When you see the correlation of counties with high overdose rates which has an economic component to Trump voters that hasn't been debunked. Now do some of those people fear immigrants as job competitors? Sure but this is still primarily an economic argument. So much like the argument of nature versus nurture it's really a mix. And it is far to easy, far to self serving to claim it's all about racism.

Economics are often a key driving force behind the intensity and overtness of racism, classicism, nativism, etc. 

 

[tommyGunZ]

This study flies in the face of multiple other studies that I mentioned in my response to you. And again we aren't really talking mainstream Republican voters which would be a lot of what is in this study. Who are of course white and better off. We are trying to find out how Trump broke the thin coalition Democrats had been winning on. We are trying to find out why people who voted twice for Obama voted for Trump. Did they suddenly become racists? No they didn't. Why did blue collar working class Democrats for life vote for Trump? Also just now decided to try on racism? Not likely. So we need more than one study that amazingly affirms what people want to hear before we call it a day and move on.

There is plenty more to chew on.  

Its not the economy stupid

Education not income predicted who would vote for Trump

In fairness, I think this piece by Ben Casselman makes the best argument that economic anxiety played an important role.  Stop saying Trump's win had nothing to do with economics.  I tend to agree with his theory that economics played a role, if not necessarily the primary role in Trump's success. 

 

[NCCommish]

There is plenty more to chew on.  

Its not the economy stupid

Education not income predicted who would vote for Trump

In fairness, I think this piece by Ben Casselman makes the best argument that economic anxiety played an important role.  Stop saying Trump's win had nothing to do with economics.  I tend to agree with his theory that economics played a role, if not necessarily the primary role in Trump's success. 

These results are every bit as striking: Clinton lost ground relative to Obama in 47 of the 50 counties — she did an average of 11 percentage points worse, in fact. These are really the places that won Donald Trump the presidency, especially given that a fair number of them are in swing states such as Ohio and North Carolina. He improved on Mitt Romney’s margin by more than 30 points (!) in Ashtabula County, Ohio, for example, an industrial county along Lake Erie that hadn’t voted Republican since 1984.

What effect does lower education levels have on economic security? And suddenly these people went racist? Come on

Hiring signs dot the doors of the Wal-Mart, the McDonald’s, and the Long John Silver’s.

You do realize those jobs represent a downgrade right? So again economics is still an issue. Just because you get a job if it pays half what you used to make you don't feel particularly good about doing so.

But despite the decisions that the Obama administration made that might have helped Elkhart, many people here have a strong dislike of Obama, who presided over an economic recovery in which the unemployment rate fell nationally to 4.6 percent from a high of 10 percent in October 2009. They say it’s not Obama who is responsible for the city or the country’s economic progress, and furthermore, that the economy won’t truly start to improve until President-elect Donald Trump takes office.

“He didn’t help us here, but he took credit for what happened,” Chris Corbin, 47, who works for a dispatch company in Elkhart, told me. Corbin thinks it will be Trump who improves the economy. “It’s going to take two terms, but he’ll fix things,” he said.

And again using your Elkhart example those people are specifically pointing to the fact they think Obama didn't do enough for them economically. They think right or wrong it was local people who did it. So still economics not racism.

 

[NCCommish]

Economics are often a key driving force behind the intensity and overtness of racism, classicism, nativism, etc. 

There is certainly some truth to that.

 

[NCCommish]

And again we have a Trump thread. I would rather discuss ideas from these videos. That's why the first one is EU centric. Yes he is talking about Trumpism but he is applying it to both sides of the argument. So please lets not turn this into a second Trump specific thread.

 

[Ilov80s]

I think we all smart enough to know that everything had some role and nothing had no role. A national election is a pretty complicated process with an insane amount of inputs. That applies beyond the United States. 

 

[Man of Constant Sorrow]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/08/12/a-massive-new-study-debunks-a-widespread-theory-for-donald-trumps-success/?utm_term=.4feafb89d24b

TLR - Trump's supporters are relatively economically well off and haven't suffered from the negative impacts of globalization disproportionately.  IOW, it ain't the economy, it's something else.  

Thank you. Don't worry about the TLR, I promise I will read it in full. 

I have finished reading this. Now, that I scan the thread above, I see that others have done a very good job of addressing specific points...which I agree with.

The thing I would like to add, that has also been touched upon already, is that I am not trying to argue about or define the entire DJT voting block. Rather, I am more focused on the swing of the previous working class Dems to a DJT voter. This, imo, was the nail in the D-coffin for the 2016 elections. Does anyone disagree?

Also, as I have posted elsewhere, it goes beyond the Presidential election. My state, KY, had its legislature controlled by Dems for the past 95 years straight...until 2016...even though it is a Red State nationally. The huge swing in state elections, was not about DJT imo...it was about anger at the status quo...economically.

Thanks for sharing the article, and I will soon read the others you provided.

 

[NCCommish]

I think we all smart enough to know that everything had some role and nothing had no role. A national election is a pretty complicated process with an insane amount of inputs. That applies beyond the United States. 

Absolutely. And I really hope you guys have the time to watch these. I know I learned some stuff personally. Some of it going against what I always thought, some of it confirming what I always thought and some of it brand new to me. Hopefully everyone can have the same experience.

 

[Ilov80s]

Absolutely. And I really hope you guys have the time to watch these. I know I learned some stuff personally. Some of it going against what I always thought, some of it confirming what I always thought and some of it brand new to me. Hopefully everyone can have the same experience.

Definitely plan to, thanks for sharing.

 

[NCCommish]

This one is on the financial crisis and afermath:

After the Financial Crisis: How to Tell the Forest from the Trees

 

[NCCommish]

So I really liked that one. I really liked his explanation of why America is so resilient.

 

[Mene]

 

[Gr00vus]

So I really liked that one. I really liked his explanation of why America is so resilient.

Well, we're going to need to be...

 

[Man in the yellow hat]

Came across this interesting info-graphic while browsing the Milwaukee news this morning. 

Interesting data from Milwaukee, Cleveland, Detroit, etc.

Increasing Poverty Across Northern Industrial Cities. In 1970, Milwaukee was a thriving, northern industrial city with a relatively low poverty rate of 11%. But decades of industrial decline and population loss took their toll. By 2014, nearly one in three city residents lived below the poverty level, and the city's total population fell by 17% to 598,078.

http://projects.jsonline.com/news/2017/3/23/poverty-maps.html

 

[NCCommish]

Came across this interesting info-graphic while browsing the Milwaukee news this morning. 

Interesting data from Milwaukee, Cleveland, Detroit, etc.

Increasing Poverty Across Northern Industrial Cities. In 1970, Milwaukee was a thriving, northern industrial city with a relatively low poverty rate of 11%. But decades of industrial decline and population loss took their toll. By 2014, nearly one in three city residents lived below the poverty level, and the city's total population fell by 17% to 598,078.

http://projects.jsonline.com/news/2017/3/23/poverty-maps.html

Thanks for the post. I think this problem is hidden and not enough people with powerful voices are talking about it. Some absolutely refuse to.acknowledge it. In one of the videos I posted Blyth says the big difference between Americans and Europeans is when the system screws us we blame ourselves. When it screws Europeans they blame the system and expect it to do something. I think we are seeing some awakening on that front here.

 

[Buddy Ball 2K3]

Why is the audio so poor on these?