Mark Ingram: Why not? (1 Viewer)

[face105]

Between split backfields, extensive injury histories, shaky QB/OLine play and general inexperience, there seem to be a lot of RBs in limbo this season.

To name a few....D'Angelo Williams, Knowshon Moreno, Lagarrette Blount, Felix Jones, Shonn Greene, Fred Jackson and so on and so forth.

So why not Mark Ingram?

He's strong, quick and generally very talented. He's on a team with no clear cut runner in front of him. If you have to be in a split backfield I'd rather do so with Pierre Thomas than Jonathan Stewart or LaDainian Tomlinson. He's unproven, but so are Moreno and Greene. Even Fred and Blount are yet to put it together for an entire season.

I know most knocks on Ingram center around the Saints style of spreading out the carries, but the last time a back stayed healthy for the majority of the season was Pierre Thomas in 09 when he totaled 1,100 total yards and 8 TDs. That's not bad for only 14 games and possessing about half the talent of Ingram.

I'm really asking because I sorta want to be talked out of taking him ahead of those guys. But right now, I can't come up with the reasons or rationale.

 

[DoubleG]

Between split backfields, extensive injury histories, shaky QB/OLine play and general inexperience, there seem to be a lot of RBs in limbo this season.

To name a few....D'Angelo Williams, Knowshon Moreno, Lagarrette Blount, Felix Jones, Shonn Greene, Fred Jackson and so on and so forth.

So why not Mark Ingram?

He's strong, quick and generally very talented. He's on a team with no clear cut runner in front of him. If you have to be in a split backfield I'd rather do so with Pierre Thomas than Jonathan Stewart or LaDainian Tomlinson. He's unproven, but so are Moreno and Greene. Even Fred and Blount are yet to put it together for an entire season.

I know most knocks on Ingram center around the Saints style of spreading out the carries, but the last time a back stayed healthy for the majority of the season was Pierre Thomas in 09 when he totaled 1,100 total yards and 8 TDs. That's not bad for only 14 games and possessing about half the talent of Ingram.

I'm really asking because I sorta want to be talked out of taking him ahead of those guys. But right now, I can't come up with the reasons or rationale.

I think you actually answered your own question with the bolded part - he' still on the roster and Payton will have the two split time (as per your other point about the Saints "spreading out the carries".

 

[billmatic]

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=592140

 

[T with T]

Between split backfields, extensive injury histories, shaky QB/OLine play and general inexperience, there seem to be a lot of RBs in limbo this season.To name a few....D'Angelo Williams, Knowshon Moreno, Lagarrette Blount, Felix Jones, Shonn Greene, Fred Jackson and so on and so forth.So why not Mark Ingram?He's strong, quick and generally very talented. He's on a team with no clear cut runner in front of him. If you have to be in a split backfield I'd rather do so with Pierre Thomas than Jonathan Stewart or LaDainian Tomlinson. He's unproven, but so are Moreno and Greene. Even Fred and Blount are yet to put it together for an entire season.I know most knocks on Ingram center around the Saints style of spreading out the carries, but the last time a back stayed healthy for the majority of the season was Pierre Thomas in 09 when he totaled 1,100 total yards and 8 TDs. That's not bad for only 14 games and possessing about half the talent of Ingram.I'm really asking because I sorta want to be talked out of taking him ahead of those guys. But right now, I can't come up with the reasons or rationale.

Who is Blount, Jones, green, Knowshon, Fjax have to worry about. I would be more worried about the coaching philosophy of Payton more then INGRAM. Sure Ingram is a stud, but Payton uses 3-4 rbs and I could see a split between Ingram/Pthomas/Ivory that could be ugly, not to mention the fact NO is a passing team. I wouldn't him any better then my rb3 in redraft and rb2 in Dynasty.

 

[T with T]

Between split backfields, extensive injury histories, shaky QB/OLine play and general inexperience, there seem to be a lot of RBs in limbo this season.

To name a few....D'Angelo Williams, Knowshon Moreno, Lagarrette Blount, Felix Jones, Shonn Greene, Fred Jackson and so on and so forth.

So why not Mark Ingram?

He's strong, quick and generally very talented. He's on a team with no clear cut runner in front of him. If you have to be in a split backfield I'd rather do so with Pierre Thomas than Jonathan Stewart or LaDainian Tomlinson. He's unproven, but so are Moreno and Greene. Even Fred and Blount are yet to put it together for an entire season.

I know most knocks on Ingram center around the Saints style of spreading out the carries, but the last time a back stayed healthy for the majority of the season was Pierre Thomas in 09 when he totaled 1,100 total yards and 8 TDs. That's not bad for only 14 games and possessing about half the talent of Ingram.

I'm really asking because I sorta want to be talked out of taking him ahead of those guys. But right now, I can't come up with the reasons or rationale.

I think you actually answered your own question with the bolded part - he' still on the roster and Payton will have the two split time (as per your other point about the Saints "spreading out the carries".

he answered his own question and didn't know it... Come on man LT??????????? you would rather have a guy battle with P.thomas/ivory over 31 year old over the hill LT, shhezz dude do some research or find a new hobby... Don't mess with Ingram until after the 5th round or you will be sorry

 

[face105]

WOW! Pierre Thomas is apparently a star. I didn't know. God forbid you find yourself in a split with Pierre Thomas because you'll apparently never touch the field.

How can you or anyone give Thomas so much credit? He's coming off an injury that caused him to miss 10 games last year, and in the 6 he did play he was bad.

My point with Thomas' stats in 09 wasn't to proclaim him a star in wait. To the contrary, anyone who has actually seen him play knows he is an average runner at best. Rather, he's a product of a system and debunks this whole notion that RBs can't get enough touches under Payton.

Speaking of research, do a little on Chris Ivory. He's already hurt and how much can they really like him if they drafted an RB in the 1st round and signed Sproles on top of that.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

There are two threads about this on the first page alone. FFS.

 

[slayer666]

I think I'd be worrying a tad about Darren Sproles.

During the past two seasons in San Diego, Sproles has notched 143 carries, 601 yards and three scores, as well as, 104 receptions, 1,017 yards and 6 touchdowns. Personally, I think Sproles is more explosive than Reggie Bush, and Sean Payton will find many creative ways to utilize him in the Saints' offensive scheme. Throw in Pierre Thomas, who knows the scheme like the back of his hand as a runner and receiver, and you have the makings of a cluster**** RBBC.

 

[face105]

There are two threads about this on the first page alone. FFS.

Why don't you call the thread police so that we can all sleep safely tonight??

 

[PizzaDeliveryGuy]

There are two threads about this on the first page alone. FFS.

Why don't you call the thread police so that we can all sleep safely tonight??

When you can skim the first page and see 2 threads it is pretty standard practice not to throw up a 3rd.

 

[face105]

There are two threads about this on the first page alone. FFS.

Why don't you call the thread police so that we can all sleep safely tonight??

When you can skim the first page and see 2 threads it is pretty standard practice not to throw up a 3rd.

What about a 4th?

 

[PizzaDeliveryGuy]

There are two threads about this on the first page alone. FFS.

Why don't you call the thread police so that we can all sleep safely tonight??

When you can skim the first page and see 2 threads it is pretty standard practice not to throw up a 3rd.

What about a 4th?

You won't last long around here if you continue being an ###. I'm just trying to help you, if everyone started a thread with every idea that popped into their head, it wouldn't be very constructive, now would it.

 

[face105]

There are two threads about this on the first page alone. FFS.

Why don't you call the thread police so that we can all sleep safely tonight??

When you can skim the first page and see 2 threads it is pretty standard practice not to throw up a 3rd.

What about a 4th?

You won't last long around here if you continue being an ###. I'm just trying to help you, if everyone started a thread with every idea that popped into their head, it wouldn't be very constructive, now would it.

I won't last long on this forum? Anything but that. Also, it was only the 2nd thread on Ingram. People who have a problem with that need to get a life. Seriously. If the thought of a 2nd thread is such a bother just move along. Nothing to see here. Be productive and share your insights or go be a wank somewhere else.

 

[DoubleG]

There are two threads about this on the first page alone. FFS.

Why don't you call the thread police so that we can all sleep safely tonight??

When you can skim the first page and see 2 threads it is pretty standard practice not to throw up a 3rd.

What about a 4th?

You won't last long around here if you continue being an ###. I'm just trying to help you, if everyone started a thread with every idea that popped into their head, it wouldn't be very constructive, now would it.

I won't last long on this forum? Anything but that. Also, it was only the 2nd thread on Ingram. People who have a problem with that need to get a life. Seriously. If the thought of a 2nd thread is such a bother just move along. Nothing to see here. Be productive and share your insights or go be a wank somewhere else.

Easy there sparky. No need to be wad...especially to respected posters that have been on these boards a lot longer than you have. You'll get more answers by being excellent - not by derailing the thread arguing about how many posts, or whether or not you care.

 

[Abraham]

Everybody chill.

IMO Ingram will have the job to himself before halloweeen. His forward lean/power is superb.

 

[Hoart Petterson]

I'll let someone else reach 4 rounds too early for the guy.

 

[nysportsfan]

Everybody chill. IMO Ingram will have the job to himself before halloweeen. His forward lean/power is superb.

I think this is most likely to be true but just needs to be taken round 5 or later.

 

[mikel0254]

Everybody chill. IMO Ingram will have the job to himself before halloweeen. His forward lean/power is superb.

I agree he'll have the job to himself at some point this season...by Halloween sounds right. Only problem is you'll need to draft him as early as a RB2 and he might not perform up to his draft position until Halloween. By that time it could be too late for your fantasy team.

 

[eoMMan]

I agree. Why not start another thread on this guy? He's a beast.

 

[DesmondBishop]

Everybody chill. IMO Ingram will have the job to himself before halloweeen. His forward lean/power is superb.

If PT is hurt then this may be correct, but nothing they have done so far says this. PT is the FAR superior receiver out of the backfield which makes him a more obvious choice for early downs as it makes the team less predictive. One place he may end up winning is the goal line carries, he does seem more powerful. My guess is PT has more touches carries/catches and Ingram has slightly less touches but more total TD's.

 

[Daywalker]

Definetly a guy I will be targeting. Upside is just too high. What's not to like. Pedigree, skills and goal line potential as well as offense are first-round material.

If his biggest obstacles to superstardom are P. Thomas and D. Sproles then he's definetly worth the gamble. Team's #1 pick and they are built to win now.

Just seems like a guy/situation that we will all be scratching our heads next-season as to how he fell so low.

Plus the fun factor. Each individual season/league has so much luck involved that the enjoyment of following a guy like this is to much for me to pass up.

Guy is going to be a monster at some point this season. Can't let one of my competitors have him by passing on him in the 4th.

 

[VikingFrog]

What he said.

 

[OPS]

Definetly a guy I will be targeting. Upside is just too high. What's not to like. Pedigree, skills and goal line potential as well as offense are first-round material.If his biggest obstacles to superstardom are P. Thomas and D. Sproles then he's definetly worth the gamble. Team's #1 pick and they are built to win now.Just seems like a guy/situation that we will all be scratching our heads next-season as to how he fell so low.Plus the fun factor. Each individual season/league has so much luck involved that the enjoyment of following a guy like this is to much for me to pass up.Guy is going to be a monster at some point this season. Can't let one of my competitors have him by passing on him in the 4th.

Well said.

 

[ChromeWeasel]

There are two threads about this on the first page alone. FFS.

Why don't you call the thread police so that we can all sleep safely tonight??

When you can skim the first page and see 2 threads it is pretty standard practice not to throw up a 3rd.

What about a 4th?

You won't last long around here if you continue being an ###. I'm just trying to help you, if everyone started a thread with every idea that popped into their head, it wouldn't be very constructive, now would it.

I won't last long on this forum? Anything but that. Also, it was only the 2nd thread on Ingram. People who have a problem with that need to get a life. Seriously. If the thought of a 2nd thread is such a bother just move along. Nothing to see here. Be productive and share your insights or go be a wank somewhere else.

Easy there sparky. No need to be wad...especially to respected posters that have been on these boards a lot longer than you have. You'll get more answers by being excellent - not by derailing the thread arguing about how many posts, or whether or not you care.

There's nothing wrong with starting another thread as long as it's fantasy relevant. You dont need to post in the new thread if you dont want to. Too many people on this board act as if they are administrators and should just ignore posts like these in the first place if they dont think they belong on the board.

 

[Abraham]

Chester Taylor was a far better receiver then Peterson as well. Eventually the rushing talent will overwhelm the nominal advantage of the defense worrying about pt as a receiver.

 

[timschochet]

Chester Taylor was a far better receiver then Peterson as well. Eventually the rushing talent will overwhelm the nominal advantage of the defense worrying about pt as a receiver.

This is true, but my bigger concern is pass protection. One of the reasons to be cautious about rookie running backs is that head coaches are reluctant to put them in there too much because they haven't figured out how to block. With the amount of passing schemes New Orleans have, this could be a real concern, and it MIGHT mean that Ingram doesn't get the number of touches currently estimated. That being said, I still like him around his current ADP.

 

[DesmondBishop]

Chester Taylor was a far better receiver then Peterson as well. Eventually the rushing talent will overwhelm the nominal advantage of the defense worrying about pt as a receiver.

That's a great point for the Vikings offense, we are talking about a much more pass oriented offense and ADP was insanely better than Taylor, at this point there is zero evidence to show Ingram is the better RB than PT.

 

[Abraham]

I disagree with the idea that there is "zero evidence" to support the notion that Ingram is a better runner then Thomas. Frankly, I think the evidence is overwhelming.

 

[Short Corner]

I disagree with the idea that there is "zero evidence" to support the notion that Ingram is a better runner then Thomas. Frankly, I think the evidence is overwhelming.

The Saints must see something in PT if they signed him to $11M/4yrs in March.

 

[Hoart Petterson]

I see a handful of good games and a handful of 10 carry-27 yd games

 

[Abraham]

Only the first two years of the Thomas deal are guaranteed, and it pays him as rb24 in the NFL (not including any recent deals). Yes, they see value in Thomas but the money isn't "we have to play him or cut him" level. I think by mid season we will see Ingram getting 16-25 touches and Thomas getting 5-10.

 

[DesmondBishop]

Only the first two years of the Thomas deal are guaranteed, and it pays him as rb24 in the NFL (not including any recent deals). Yes, they see value in Thomas but the money isn't "we have to play him or cut him" level. I think by mid season we will see Ingram getting 16-25 touches and Thomas getting 5-10.

We get the point, you drafted him in all your leagues based on his college performance and your professional talent evaluation skills and you need to reassure yourself he is going to be "all you dreamed him up to be". I am sure this prediction is based on all the insider video evidence you have of his "overwhelming" PT in real NFL games.

 

[Short Corner]

Only the first two years of the Thomas deal are guaranteed, and it pays him as rb24 in the NFL (not including any recent deals). Yes, they see value in Thomas but the money isn't "we have to play him or cut him" level. I think by mid season we will see Ingram getting 16-25 touches and Thomas getting 5-10.

 

[JuSt CuZ]

Only the first two years of the Thomas deal are guaranteed, and it pays him as rb24 in the NFL (not including any recent deals). Yes, they see value in Thomas but the money isn't "we have to play him or cut him" level. I think by mid season we will see Ingram getting 16-25 touches and Thomas getting 5-10.

Don't be so quick to laugh, Thomas has a history of being hurt by then.

 

[DesmondBishop]

Only the first two years of the Thomas deal are guaranteed, and it pays him as rb24 in the NFL (not including any recent deals). Yes, they see value in Thomas but the money isn't "we have to play him or cut him" level. I think by mid season we will see Ingram getting 16-25 touches and Thomas getting 5-10.

Don't be so quick to laugh, Thomas has a history of being hurt by then.

We are not predicting injuries here, if either is injured the others touches will be considerably higher, that is kind of obvious.

 

[Dreamer]

I disagree with the idea that there is "zero evidence" to support the notion that Ingram is a better runner then Thomas. Frankly, I think the evidence is overwhelming.

The Saints must see something in PT if they signed him to $11M/4yrs in March.

That's backup money, and clearly just a ploy to motivate Mark Ingram.

 

[Abraham]

I havent drafte him in any league and I'm not likely to do so.

I happen to think he is the best rb to enter the NFL since Peterson. He runs north and south, has a low center of gravity, and runs with a very strong forward lean in short yardage situations. Thats not to say he will necessarily experience vast fantasy success, but he certainly has the tools to be an elite rb.

He's a rookie so of course there is no game evidence. That's a silly reason for an opinion like mine to be dismissed. Using that logic, we can surnise that cam newton is no better then jimmy claussen and that aj green is no better then jerome simpson

The saints traded back in to round one to acquire Ingram specifically, so they have a plan.

My view of Ingram from a fantasy perspective is that he is one of a handful of players in a situatiOn where he could be a bell cow in a very good offense. The others are all being selected in the first round.

If my opinion threatens or offends you, so be it. But a Heisman trophy winning running back from the SEC is not something to be dismissed easily. There will he NFL game film of him making his case soon enough.

 

[timschochet]

I havent drafte him in any league and I'm not likely to do so. I happen to think he is the best rb to enter the NFL since Peterson. He runs north and south, has a low center of gravity, and runs with a very strong forward lean in short yardage situations. Thats not to say he will necessarily experience vast fantasy success, but he certainly has the tools to be an elite rb. He's a rookie so of course there is no game evidence. That's a silly reason for an opinion like mine to be dismissed. Using that logic, we can surnise that cam newton is no better then jimmy claussen and that aj green is no better then jerome simpson The saints traded back in to round one to acquire Ingram specifically, so they have a plan. My view of Ingram from a fantasy perspective is that he is one of a handful of players in a situatiOn where he could be a bell cow in a very good offense. The others are all being selected in the first round. If my opinion threatens or offends you, so be it. But a Heisman trophy winning running back from the SEC is not something to be dismissed easily. There will he NFL game film of him making his case soon enough.

I appreciate the arguments, and I think I'm sold.

 

[SproutDaddy]

I disagree with the idea that there is "zero evidence" to support the notion that Ingram is a better runner then Thomas. Frankly, I think the evidence is overwhelming.

The Saints must see something in PT if they signed him to $11M/4yrs in March.

Funny.....folks around here always argue that's not significant money for a RB.