Mark Ingram (2 Viewers)

[Chaka]

Robinson is definitely the better receiver?

Definitely?

Based on a couple preseason catches? Ingram averaged 9.7 YPR a couple of catches last year, 7 (7.5 YPR if you take out his longest reception, which you can't). He averaged 13.4 YPR on 21 receptions as a junior and and 10.4 YPR on 32 receptions as a sophomore.

And Robinson is definitely the better receiver?

How about "Robinson may be a better receiver" or even "Robinson is probably a better receiver" if you must, but definitely? "Definitely" is a statement of fact based upon little more than personal belief and not on any empirical data.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I'm just going to premise that Pierre won't be in there as much on 1st down and Ingram and Robinson will be there in more, and then that the Saints, while maybe doing it less, will not refuse to pass to Ingram and Robinson, they will insist they catch the ball because that's what this team does.

ETA - as stated Robinson is definitely the better receiver.

why?

ingram played about 25% of the snaps when he was in games as compared to about 50% for thomas.

Because they have to change and they have to be less predictable to be more productive. And because Thomas is declining, running the ball and catching it, and because they want to run more on first down (if you believe the statements), they are going to have Ingram and Robinson in there more to do that. I'm speculating, I don't have a secret memo, but I did see how they lost last year in just a few key games and everyone sees how the league has shifted towards running the ball. The stat you mentioned is one thing they have to change, at least the 50% stat for Pierre. I'd also look to the personnel moves, the added emphasis on the defense. Also, we're in the Ingram thread but I'm thinking collectively of Ingram and Robinson, so there is some variation there, I could well see Robinson taking over within games as they progress.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Robinson is definitely the better receiver?

Definitely?

Based on a couple preseason catches? Ingram averaged 9.7 YPR a couple of catches last year, 7 (7.5 YPR if you take out his longest reception, which you can't). He averaged 13.4 YPR on 21 receptions as a junior and and 10.4 YPR on 32 receptions as a sophomore.

And Robinson is definitely the better receiver?

How about "Robinson may be a better receiver" or even "Robinson is probably a better receiver" if you must, but definitely? "Definitely" is a statement of fact based upon little more than personal belief and not on any empirical data.

Good point on the data, we haven't really had enough RS touches from Robinson yet (he has no RS receptions). When I said "definitely" that was my impression watching him catch the ball and run with it. Talking preseason and playoff btw. - ETA: Robinson is something like 14/144 rec in 6 PS and playoff games.

 

[Adam Harstad]

you keep talking about this giant pie, but unless you're in some kind of best ball format you don't get any of those points unless the right guy is in your line up on any given week.

I want you to go through 2013 week by week and tell me which guy was in your line up and why before you claim any of those points.

after sproles was the #1 rb in week 4 you actually had the prescience to bench him in week 5 to start a guy whose best finish in the previous 4 weeks was rb25?

in your own opinion, what you're telling me is that the heisman winner they traded up into the first round for was a perfectly good pass catcher, but they'd rather remain predictable and use him on clear running downs to get that undrafted guy in there?

mark ingram totaled a whopping 15% of the snaps last year, partly due to missing games (probably 24% in games he played) but he had these 2 great pass catchers in front of him, so maybe he would've gotten a bigger piece of the giant pie if one wasn't around -- like in the playoffs that one week.

sproles didn't play in week 12, so we did actually see ingram's snap % shoot up to 38%, with thomas at 55%, and robinson getting 1 snap -- I have no idea if any injuries were involved.

week 12 at ATL : ingram - 9 carries for 32 yds + 0 td and 0 targets, p thomas was #8 rb that week

atlanta gave up more rushing yards and a higher ypc than any other team in the league last year outside chicago -- and that includes dallas

2012 -- sproles missed weeks 9, 10, 11

ingram got 24% of the total snaps that year and posted the following stats in those 3 weeks

wk 9 - 7/44/0 + 2 targets (32% snaps)

wk10 - 16/67/0 + 1 target (39% snaps)

wk11 - 12/67/1 + 1 target (28% snaps)

p thomas totaled only 9 targets over the 3 weeks, which was below his per game target average

To quote myself from earlier in the thread:

There'll be some weeks where you pick wrong, but that's the price you pay for going cheap at the position. Looking at ADP, the RBs selected immediately after those five are C.J. Spiller, Ben Tate, Stevan Ridley, Tre Mason, and Ahmad Bradshaw. You don't think THAT RB corps would leave you pulling your hair out every week trying to decide who to start?

Yeah, the Pierre Thomas / Mark Ingram / Khiry Robinson trio will be hard to predict. There will be some weeks where you guess wrong. The same is true of each and every RB that is getting drafted in the same range as those three. In the most recent ADP data, the three backs going after the NO trio are now Lamar Miller, Chris Ivory, and Tre Mason. Do you think you could predict when those guys are going to have a good week? I certainly don't think I could. You know what you call a running back that you can comfortably slot into your starting lineup every week without worrying that you're making the wrong decision? You call him a first or second rounder.

In my own opinion, what I'm telling you is that the fact that Mark Ingram was used in the passing game much less frequently than Pierre Thomas and Darren Sproles indicates to me that he's not nearly as good in the passing game as those two and couldn't beat them out for market share. With Sproles now gone and Pierre aging (and sliding down the depth chart, reportedly), the task of seizing market share is going to be much easier for Mark Ingram. He couldn't steal receptions from Darren Sproles. Stealing them from Khiry Robinson and Travaris Cadet seems doable, though.

Or, hey, maybe I'm wrong and New Orleans just changes its identity to de-emphasize its RBs in the passing game. Or maybe it just dumps all of those passes on Pierre Thomas' plate, giving him 100+ receptions for the year. Or maybe it opts to use the entirely-unproven receiver Khiry Robinson instead of the mostly-unproven receiver Ingram. Maybe Brandin Cooks takes up the slack instead. I'm not trying to deal in certainties, here. It's not like I'm banging the table and yelling at the top of my lungs that Mark Ingram is going to be a stud. We're talking about a guy who is being drafted in the 12th round as the 49th RB off the board. The concerns you raise are very valid and compelling concerns, and they're the reason I'm not going to be grabbing Mark Ingram in the 4th as my RB2. But as my RB5? Hell yes I'm signing up for that ride. Highly pedigreed back currently sitting atop the depth chart of the most prolific PPR RB situation in NFL history? Yes, sure, I'd love to take a gamble on that in the 12th round. Seems like pretty good value to me.

Edit: if I'm placing odds on it, I think it's significantly more like that Mark Ingram winds up being complete junk than that he winds up being a quality fantasy back. I'm just saying, his current price doesn't seem commensurate with his risk/reward profile. Whether it's previous owners who are holding a grudge against him, or people just marking the entire NO backfield with a giant "AVOID" sign, or what, I think the market is mispricing Mark Ingram.

 

[RBM]

I love Ingram. Seriously one of my favorite rbs to watch because when it's all clicking he's really good. But barring injury is there any chance he can get to even 200 carries? I just can't see it. I really hope he's out of NO next year.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

He couldn't steal receptions from Darren Sproles. Stealing them from Khiry Robinson and Travaris Cadet seems doable, though.

you mean like that week sproles was out and he got 0 targets?

or the 3 weeks sproles was out the year before when he got 4 targets?

bradshaw, mason, probably dunbar, and possibly even mccluster will outproduce ingram in ppr.

and yeah, i think I can do a better job figuring out which weeks to play them than I can ingram.

 

[Otis]

Criminally undervalued.

 

[3quinox]

What's his ceiling? Let's say he is a FA now and can be drafted by any team.

 

[karmarooster]

What's his ceiling? Let's say he is a FA now and can be drafted by any team.

Well if he ended up as the lead back on a run heavy team... pretty high ceiling. Something like Alfred Morris or Michael Turner. Top 10-15ish even without many receptions.

 

[psychobillies]

I'll be drafting with a bunch of Saints homers. After this preseason, he'll be going 5th-6th round. I won't have a shot, but I think it's pretty obvious that the coaches are high on this guy and he will get plenty of opportunity. Remember they cut PT only to bring him back for depth at a bargain price. Ingram is also healthier than he has ever been in his pro career, and he's playing for a contract. If you can get that in the 10th, you'd be crazy to pass IMO.

 

[DropKick]

I'll be drafting with a bunch of Saints homers. After this preseason, he'll be going 5th-6th round. I won't have a shot, but I think it's pretty obvious that the coaches are high on this guy and he will get plenty of opportunity. Remember they cut PT only to bring him back for depth at a bargain price. Ingram is also healthier than he has ever been in his pro career, and he's playing for a contract. If you can get that in the 10th, you'd be crazy to pass IMO.

I would expect Thomas, Robinson and Ingram to be involved but with loads of unpredictability. I agree that Ingram becomes an option around the 10th round. But, 5th or 6th? - maybe just with Saints homers.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

I'll be drafting with a bunch of Saints homers. After this preseason, he'll be going 5th-6th round. I won't have a shot, but I think it's pretty obvious that the coaches are high on this guy and he will get plenty of opportunity.

yeah, it was obvious in 2011, too

 

[LawFitz]

The thing I hate about the Saints (and Pats - and now possibly the Lions and Chargers) is they seem dedicated to the 3 RB rotation. Last year, I figured Khiry would be a great play if/when Pierre or Sproles went down. Instead when that happened, Payton incorporated Ingram and sprinkled in Cadet. He may have run out of viable backup plug-in-play options this year, but it sure does seem like Payton likes to use RBBBC, which makes all (or at least most) of them dead weight in fantasy, unless you play in best-ball leagues.

Is this guy next in line to nuke fantasy expectations?...

40 Flanders, Timothy RB 5-9 210 22 R

 

[Chaka]

Since July 9th Ingram's ADP has gone from RB56 to RB49.

 

[FF Ninja]

I bounce back and forth on Ingram regularly. His poor metrics scare me, but there's always a chance his injuries had something to do with those times. Either way, the guy is better than he appears to the casual (nice word for unintelligent) observer who watches him routinely run into the teeth of the defense and compares his YPC to Pierre Thomas who is facing nickel and dime defenses...

From: https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/04/09/the-impact-of-defensive-packages-on-yards-per-carry/

I’ve called Mark Ingram underrated before and the 2013 season just adds fuel to the fire. He’s fairly productive despite playing at a major disadvantage. Only Morris saw more Base defense than Ingram did last season. He averaged 4.9 YPC on 89 carries against Base, and 6.5 YPC on 17 totes against Nickel. Ingram now has an above average 4.3 career YPC against Base and an exceptional 5.2 YPC against Nickel. Ingram has faced a Dime defense only once in his career, but has 23 carries with fewer than four defensive backs on the field.

 

[jurb26]

From: https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/04/09/the-impact-of-defensive-packages-on-yards-per-carry/

Great article.

 

[rickyg]

If you draft Ingram in the 10th round the risk isn't high per se, as long as you acknowledge that you're drafting a guy who:

1) is a committe Rb and part of a THREE back committe at that. So touches will be limited and he will have like 2 or 3 big games sprinkled in with a whole lot of unstartable games.

2) plays on a pass first Sean Payton led team.

3) doesn't have the trust of his coaching staff (evidenced not only by his usage since his rookie year but also BC the saints are in no hurry to re-sign him)

4) will need to be taken instead of guys like devonta freeman, Carlos Hyde, who I think provide muc more upside this year, possibly even without injuries to the starters on their respective teams.

Nothing has changed about Ingram this year. Last year he was also the best saints Rb in the preseason. Last year we all got hyped up like this. Thenrhe regular season started. And he was a colossal bust. Not his fault. There was injury and his usage was terrible. But still. Who cares? If there is a great Rb on a team that doesn't ever use him, does it matter if he is great (for redraft purposes)?

 

[Raiderfan32904]

1. Disagree that Ingram is part 3 of the RBBC in New Orleans. His usage last year increased as the season progressed, and was basically the starting in base offense sets. Touches may not be as limited as you think. If Ingram can keep ripping off an impressive YPC, they will likely feed him the ball some more. He's had to earn Payton's trust, but it's fair to say he's on the right track in that regard.

2. Yes, he plays on a pass first team, but that only helps set up the run. And if he's getting more snaps, assuming he's earned Payton's trust, it goes to say he'll also likely get more catches.

3. He may have not had the trust of his coaching staff, but look how he's slicing through the defenses and the trend in usage toward last year. I think he may have more trust than you think. It's a contract year, so they will try to get all the value from his rookie contract they can get before he moves on. Ingram will be highly motivated in a contract year.

4. I'll gladly take him ahead of Freeman or Hyde in redraft. Both of them don't have clear paths to starting game one as Ingram does. You are gambling on high ceiling, high upside and high risk handcuffs with either of them. If their path isn't cleared by the bye week, you might find yourself forced to drop them for a bye week filler. Give me Ingram's safe, yet shallow floor and medium high upside over those lottery tickets.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

1. Disagree that Ingram is part 3 of the RBBC in New Orleans. His usage last year increased as the season progressed, and was basically the starting in base offense sets. Touches may not be as limited as you think. If Ingram can keep ripping off an impressive YPC, they will likely feed him the ball some more. He's had to earn Payton's trust, but it's fair to say he's on the right track in that regard.

could you document this?

 

[lsutigers]

1. Disagree that Ingram is part 3 of the RBBC in New Orleans. His usage last year increased as the season progressed, and was basically the starting in base offense sets. Touches may not be as limited as you think. If Ingram can keep ripping off an impressive YPC, they will likely feed him the ball some more. He's had to earn Payton's trust, but it's fair to say he's on the right track in that regard.

2. Yes, he plays on a pass first team, but that only helps set up the run. And if he's getting more snaps, assuming he's earned Payton's trust, it goes to say he'll also likely get more catches.

3. He may have not had the trust of his coaching staff, but look how he's slicing through the defenses and the trend in usage toward last year. I think he may have more trust than you think. It's a contract year, so they will try to get all the value from his rookie contract they can get before he moves on. Ingram will be highly motivated in a contract year.

4. I'll gladly take him ahead of Freeman or Hyde in redraft. Both of them don't have clear paths to starting game one as Ingram does. You are gambling on high ceiling, high upside and high risk handcuffs with either of them. If their path isn't cleared by the bye week, you might find yourself forced to drop them for a bye week filler. Give me Ingram's safe, yet shallow floor and medium high upside over those lottery tickets.

1. Agree.

2. Disagree. Have you followed the Saints? The pass sets up the screen pass.

3. Moderately agree. I just get concerned how much he celebrates mediocre runs.

4. No way. Even in a 2 RB with a third flexed, I would rather have the rookie lottery ticket. We don't know what any of their ceilings are, but we have a clearer idea about what Ingram's floor is.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

1. Disagree that Ingram is part 3 of the RBBC in New Orleans. His usage last year increased as the season progressed, and was basically the starting in base offense sets. Touches may not be as limited as you think. If Ingram can keep ripping off an impressive YPC, they will likely feed him the ball some more. He's had to earn Payton's trust, but it's fair to say he's on the right track in that regard.

could you document this?

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/I/IngrMa01/gamelog//

I know it's not much of a trend, but throwing out the week 17 game, 3 of his last 4 games he had some fantasy worthy perfomances. I'm talking about how he was used in the playoffs.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

1. Disagree that Ingram is part 3 of the RBBC in New Orleans. His usage last year increased as the season progressed, and was basically the starting in base offense sets. Touches may not be as limited as you think. If Ingram can keep ripping off an impressive YPC, they will likely feed him the ball some more. He's had to earn Payton's trust, but it's fair to say he's on the right track in that regard.

could you document this?

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/I/IngrMa01/gamelog//

I know it's not much of a trend, but throwing out the week 17 game, 3 of his last 4 games he had some fantasy worthy perfomances. I'm talking about how he was used in the playoffs.

wut

 

[Raiderfan32904]

1. Disagree that Ingram is part 3 of the RBBC in New Orleans. His usage last year increased as the season progressed, and was basically the starting in base offense sets. Touches may not be as limited as you think. If Ingram can keep ripping off an impressive YPC, they will likely feed him the ball some more. He's had to earn Payton's trust, but it's fair to say he's on the right track in that regard.

could you document this?

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players /I/IngrMa01/gamelog//

I know it's not much of a trend, but throwing out the week 17 game, 3 of his last 4 games he had some fantasy worthy perfomances. I'm talking about how he was used in the playoffs.

wut

Week 16: 13 carries for 83 yards, 1 reception for 7 yards

Playoffs wildcard: 18 carries for 97 yards and 1 TD, 3 receptions for 17 yards and 1 TD

Playoffs divisional: 10 carries for 49 yards

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

1. Disagree that Ingram is part 3 of the RBBC in New Orleans. His usage last year increased as the season progressed, and was basically the starting in base offense sets. Touches may not be as limited as you think. If Ingram can keep ripping off an impressive YPC, they will likely feed him the ball some more. He's had to earn Payton's trust, but it's fair to say he's on the right track in that regard.

could you document this?

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players /I/IngrMa01/gamelog//

I know it's not much of a trend, but throwing out the week 17 game, 3 of his last 4 games he had some fantasy worthy perfomances. I'm talking about how he was used in the playoffs.

wut

Week 16: 13 carries for 83 yards, 1 reception for 7 yards

Playoffs wildcard: 18 carries for 97 yards and 1 TD, 3 receptions for 17 yards and 1 TD

Playoffs divisional: 10 carries for 49 yards

so, "His usage last year increased as the season progressed," is based on a trend of getting 13 carries one week in a game he played 17 snaps, followed by 18 carries and another 10 in the 2 games pierre thomas missed last year?

seriously?

you're right -- it's not much of a trend

 

[Chaka]

1. Disagree that Ingram is part 3 of the RBBC in New Orleans. His usage last year increased as the season progressed, and was basically the starting in base offense sets. Touches may not be as limited as you think. If Ingram can keep ripping off an impressive YPC, they will likely feed him the ball some more. He's had to earn Payton's trust, but it's fair to say he's on the right track in that regard.

could you document this?

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players /I/IngrMa01/gamelog//

I know it's not much of a trend, but throwing out the week 17 game, 3 of his last 4 games he had some fantasy worthy perfomances. I'm talking about how he was used in the playoffs.

wut

Week 16: 13 carries for 83 yards, 1 reception for 7 yards

Playoffs wildcard: 18 carries for 97 yards and 1 TD, 3 receptions for 17 yards and 1 TD

Playoffs divisional: 10 carries for 49 yards

so, "His usage last year increased as the season progressed," is based on a trend of getting 13 carries one week in a game he played 17 snaps, followed by 18 carries and another 10 in the 2 games pierre thomas missed last year?

seriously?

you're right -- it's not much of a trend

You know I agree but coming from you, I have to chuckle.

 

[Skeletore Eh]

Ingram will be next years Gerhart. I have little expectations for this season however

 

[Raiderfan32904]

I have no idea what this "year's Gerhart" means.

 

[John 14:6]

I have no idea what this "year's Gerhart" means.

He's saying that next year, since Ingram will be leaving NO and going to a new team, he will be rated higher than he has been in the past. Because he'll potentially be leaving a RBBC team to be the lead back. Similarly the way Gerhart left a back-up role with the Vikings this year to be a starter for Jacksonville this year.

 

[werdnoynek]

Funny all the people coming around on Ingram. I recall not too long ago people were piling on him similar to TRich... interesting how things can change.

I remain a believer and a buyer.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

I have no idea what this "year's Gerhart" means.

He's saying that next year, since Ingram will be leaving NO and going to a new team, he will be rated higher than he has been in the past. Because he'll potentially be leaving a RBBC team to be the lead back. Similarly the way Gerhart left a back-up role with the Vikings this year to be a starter for Jacksonville this year.

Thanks, I get that. What I mean is that all the Gerhart bell cow talk in Jacksonville is getting muddied with new talk of an RBBC. It's pretty difficult to project where Ingram will be next year or what his role will be.

 

[John 14:6]

I have no idea what this "year's Gerhart" means.

He's saying that next year, since Ingram will be leaving NO and going to a new team, he will be rated higher than he has been in the past. Because he'll potentially be leaving a RBBC team to be the lead back. Similarly the way Gerhart left a back-up role with the Vikings this year to be a starter for Jacksonville this year.

Thanks, I get that. What I mean is that all the Gerhart bell cow talk in Jacksonville is getting muddied with new talk of an RBBC. It's pretty difficult to project where Ingram will be next year or what his role will be.

Yeah, I agree. Gerhart wasn't getting the hype until we knew the situation he was going to. Ingram could very well end up going to a team next year that will also be using RBBC. So many teams do nowadays...

 

[Dondante]

Ingram will be next years Gerhart. I have little expectations for this season however

For Ingram or Gerhart?

 

[Chaka]

Ingram is an interesting guy. I think for the price, right now, he is a low risk option that - if things break for him - could provide a solid return. If he gets the goal line touches and the Saints go back to the style of offense that won them a Super Bowl (468 rushing attempts that year, averaging 393 since) he might even pay huge dividends.

And if he fails then, well, the investment isn't too big so it shouldn't hurt too much.

 

[Adam Harstad]

Funny all the people coming around on Ingram. I recall not too long ago people were piling on him similar to TRich... interesting how things can change.

I remain a believer and a buyer.

I wouldn't say I'm "coming around" on Ingram. My opinions on Ingram haven't really changed, his price has. I'm a buyer this year where I wasn't last year because Ingram's price is a lot cheaper this time around. And if that price moves up too much, (like it has been in the last week), I'll quickly turn back into a seller, (or rather, since I don't yet own any shares, an ignorer.)

Similarly, a month or two ago I was pretty much the highest ranker on the internet on Rob Gronkowski (certainly in the top 5%). Today, I see a lot of people drafting him higher than I would and think to myself "no way would I have taken him with these guys left on the board there". But it's not because I've moved on Gronkowski- I'm still right where I always was. Everyone else moved, instead.

I would think a lot of guys are in the same boat on Mark Ingram. It's not too hard to get excited about a potential 1st-string back in an explosive offense if you're in the range of the draft where everyone else is drafting handcuffs and 2nd-stringers on mediocre offenses.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

Funny all the people coming around on Ingram. I recall not too long ago people were piling on him similar to TRich... interesting how things can change.

I remain a believer and a buyer.

the pro-ingram posts seem remarkably similar to the trich thread, too

 

[karmarooster]

Ingram > Richardson

There I said it. Career 4.1 YPC vs. 3.3 YPC.

 

[Chaka]

Funny all the people coming around on Ingram. I recall not too long ago people were piling on him similar to TRich... interesting how things can change.

I remain a believer and a buyer.

the pro-ingram posts seem remarkably similar to the trich thread, too

Well they are in kind of similar situations. De facto starters with a history of disappointing performances on high powered offenses. Richardson is going @RB22 (RB25 in ppr) and Ingram @RB49 (also RB49 in ppr) at those prices I would definitely be willing to roll the dice on Ingram and possibly on Richardson (at the very least he should be the goal line option for a good offense).

 

[werdnoynek]

Funny all the people coming around on Ingram. I recall not too long ago people were piling on him similar to TRich... interesting how things can change.

I remain a believer and a buyer.

I wouldn't say I'm "coming around" on Ingram. My opinions on Ingram haven't really changed, his price has. I'm a buyer this year where I wasn't last year because Ingram's price is a lot cheaper this time around. And if that price moves up too much, (like it has been in the last week), I'll quickly turn back into a seller, (or rather, since I don't yet own any shares, an ignorer.)

Similarly, a month or two ago I was pretty much the highest ranker on the internet on Rob Gronkowski (certainly in the top 5%). Today, I see a lot of people drafting him higher than I would and think to myself "no way would I have taken him with these guys left on the board there". But it's not because I've moved on Gronkowski- I'm still right where I always was. Everyone else moved, instead.

I would think a lot of guys are in the same boat on Mark Ingram. It's not too hard to get excited about a potential 1st-string back in an explosive offense if you're in the range of the draft where everyone else is drafting handcuffs and 2nd-stringers on mediocre offenses.

His current value aside, to me he looks like he did as a prospect coming out of Bama. He's running decisively and hitting holes agressively with burst. In dynasty, I held out hope and was buying low when everyone was jumping ship the past year or two. I was about to give up on him last season but he started to give a glipse of the old heisman winning Ingram towards the end of the season, I'm glad I stuck it out this long.

In redraft, I'm still skeptial on situation, but I feel he'll get the lionshare of the carries and goal line looks and certainly agree on the value side of things. However, I'm certainly more interested in dynasty and will hope for a new situation next season.

 

[rickyg]

I gambled on Sean Payton utlizing his 1st rd running back 2 seasons in a row and got BURNED. 2012, 2013. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me...fool me three times...I should quit fantasy football bc im just terarded. lol

But seriously, I get the hype. This is the first preseason where I'm just not buying in. I haven't changed my mind on Ingram. He is a very good NFL rb that has not been given a fair chance to shine by his coaching staff. 15-20 carries and a few catches poer game would throw this kid into top 7 fantasy rb consideration. I really believe that. What I dont believe is that Pierre Thomas is just going to be phased out this year and that Khiry Robinson isn't going to cut into ingrams workload either. I don't believe that Sean Payton, after 3 years of operating this way with his backfield, is going to out of nowhere say "let's relegate pierre thomas to backup and ride ingram this season". Not happening.

Redraft, if the price is right (after 12th round for me) take a stab. Dynasty, buy low and wait for next year.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

1. Disagree that Ingram is part 3 of the RBBC in New Orleans. His usage last year increased as the season progressed, and was basically the starting in base offense sets. Touches may not be as limited as you think. If Ingram can keep ripping off an impressive YPC, they will likely feed him the ball some more. He's had to earn Payton's trust, but it's fair to say he's on the right track in that regard.

could you document this?

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players /I/IngrMa01/gamelog//

I know it's not much of a trend, but throwing out the week 17 game, 3 of his last 4 games he had some fantasy worthy perfomances. I'm talking about how he was used in the playoffs.

wut

Week 16: 13 carries for 83 yards, 1 reception for 7 yards

Playoffs wildcard: 18 carries for 97 yards and 1 TD, 3 receptions for 17 yards and 1 TD

Playoffs divisional: 10 carries for 49 yards

so, "His usage last year increased as the season progressed," is based on a trend of getting 13 carries one week in a game he played 17 snaps, followed by 18 carries and another 10 in the 2 games pierre thomas missed last year?

seriously?

you're right -- it's not much of a trend

Ok, I’ll admit that it’s not a trend to hang your hat on. It may be wishful thinking on my part. You win. Would you at least concede that when given the opportunity to get more carries with Thomas out hurt, he made the most of them?

Now moving on to a more salient point… What does the last 5 or 6 roster spots of your team look like? Do you avoid guys like Ingram who are headaches to try and guess when to use them? Tell me the other 5 or 6 guys that typically occupy your bench are not head scratching bye week or injury substitution starts? This is what we’re talking about with Mark Ingram. He’s got a price point that is a value as a RB4, with some upside if Thomas or Khiry get hurt. Or the scheme changes to match what’s working if Ingram is efficient. Remember that Brees has the injured oblique he’s resting, and while he should be back for the opener, they may want to lean on the rush attack and take it easy on him to ease him back in.

We’re into redraft season, so I’ll stick to that format for this discussion. Would I take Ingram in the 10th round where others are discussing? No, not in the 10th. But that’s because there are some WR’s in that zip code that are far more enticing, and my strategy is to build a strong and deep WR corp. But if he was available at the 11/12 turn, I wouldn’t hesitate. Especially if Khiry is on the board, I might burn two picks at the turn and double up my lotto ticket. I’ll let someone else burn a 5th on Pierre Thomas, no thanks. Ingram/Khiry are a very cheap investment that I feel confident that I’ll get a decent flex or at least a bye week player out of one of them… Maybe even if a sell high candidate if the chips fall right. Look at the players taken around their zip code and be pragmatic about it. There are no Adrian Petersons left here. Every pick from here on out to the final round has major questions marks and none of them are going to give you a warm fuzzy feeling in the pit of your stomach starting them. But they are worthy fliers.

Full disclosure, (shocker!) I own both Ingram and Khiry on an inherited dynasty roster. Honestly, when I took over I wasn’t too thrilled about either one of them. But the positive buzz is nice to hear, and I’m in wait and see mode. But they aren’t guys I’m going to starting week one.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

Yeah, i've played ff long enough to be familiar with the psychology of falling in love with every scrub on your roster

And i'm pretty sure there are players on every team that have some kind of value if a couple guys at their position get hurt

 

[karmarooster]

What was Ingram doing catching the ball past the line of scrimmage and running it in for his TD? That's not his role. KNOW YOUR ROLE.

http://www.nfl.com/now/share?id=414a9e50-970b-4b6e-96c1-f06db7a74164

 

[Mister CIA]

Watching the game featuring local NO sportscasters and they marveled somewhat ironically that Ingram performs better when Payton does not telegraph his role.

 

[Nero]

What was Ingram doing catching the ball past the line of scrimmage and running it in for his TD? That's not his role. KNOW YOUR ROLE.

http://www.nfl.com/now/share?id=414a9e50-970b-4b6e-96c1-f06db7a74164

Funny you should say that, because I haven't watched the game yet. However, I saw one play in passing and it was Ingram dropping a dump off pass that hit him squarely in his hands with no defender near him.

 

[Adam Harstad]

Another preseason game, another 12 targets for NO's RB corps. If New Orleans keeps up this pace during the regular season, they'll top 180 RB targets for the sixth time of Sean Payton's coaching career.

 

[humpback]

What was Ingram doing catching the ball past the line of scrimmage and running it in for his TD? That's not his role. KNOW YOUR ROLE.

http://www.nfl.com/now/share?id=414a9e50-970b-4b6e-96c1-f06db7a74164

Funny you should say that, because I haven't watched the game yet. However, I saw one play in passing and it was Ingram dropping a dump off pass that hit him squarely in his hands with no defender near him.

And? No one is arguing that he's the best receiving running back in the league, but he is plenty capable of catching the football.

 

[LarryAllen'sJockstrap]

I took him as my RB3 in a start one RB, two flex league. RBs are even further since they get .5 PPR and all other positions get 1 PPR. It is a 16 team league, and i drafted him around the slot FBGs have him. Compared to the other RBs in that tier, I think he's got more upside. Could be a busy again though, and I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[oswizzle]

Time for Ingram to Run the wheels until the fall off.... contract year?

 

[Raiderfan32904]

http://t.co/s2MieEZI9X

Ingram wants bigger role in Saints' passing game

 

[Skeletore Eh]

I have no idea what this "year's Gerhart" means.

He's saying that next year, since Ingram will be leaving NO and going to a new team, he will be rated higher than he has been in the past. Because he'll potentially be leaving a RBBC team to be the lead back. Similarly the way Gerhart left a back-up role with the Vikings this year to be a starter for Jacksonville this year.

Thanks, I get that. What I mean is that all the Gerhart bell cow talk in Jacksonville is getting muddied with new talk of an RBBC. It's pretty difficult to project where Ingram will be next year or what his role will be.

obviously you can't predict where ingram will be next year or what his role will be.

all i'm saying is I think ingram is a guy (who similarly to gerhart) is viewed higher by the nfl than the shark pool/fantasy football community. as such, once he leaves NO I think he will see a spike in value

I also think for as much as sean Payton is lauded for his offense/playcalling/creativity, hes done an embarrassingly poor job of putting ingram in a position to succeed. particularly after spending a 1st round pick on him