ImTheScientist
Footballguy
Whats the deal? Outside of Moss I would say he is their 2nd best player yet he continues to get the shaft week after week.
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Maroney! (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter ImTheScientist
- Start date
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
seriously?
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
yeap... thats y he loses out to faulk.. Kev is an excellent passs blocker
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
let the Maroney era begin
Now that's irony.
Ron_Mexico
I Love Doggies
You may live to regret that one.That of course depends on who you received in return.
Maybe Yudkin can add to this but I don't think Maroney is a Belichick guy. He seems to be more about him and not so much the team. While he would never admit to that, it's seen in his actions when he scores or has a big run. A Belichick guy would not make a big deal of finding the end zone. That's my thoughts - I think he's in the dog house. That and the Pats feel passing the ball gives them the best chance to get first downs and move the ball effectively.
I think he is in the dog house.. but if you ask me Belichick is the one that has it backwards...not Maroney. Maroney has been all team in everything I have seen said by him. I just think Belicheck wants to change his running style. Maroney getting that TD at the goal line is a good thing. If Maroney was stuffed he would be back on the bench.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
I'm a bit at a loss over the recent Maroney developments. I am still absorbing what exactly happened and trying to see what light I can shed on the topic.I heard Matt Light this morning say that the game plan was to go pass heavy early in the game and in his opinion they stuck with their scheme more than he thought they would. I got the feeling that it was supposed to be a first drive kind of a thinkg that they ended up playing the whole first half and a lot of the second half.He was asked specifically about Maroney and he seemed to think that Maroney was not going to be a big player this week and was not pencilled in the game plan all that much. He did not say why, but he did say that he did not think Maroney was in the dog house or that there was anything really news worthy going on with Maroney.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
I checked with my guy, and even he insists that there is nothing here other than Faulk plays in passing situations and Maroney does not. Period, end of story.
He certainly knows way more than I do, so I guess we should stick with that. I personally am starting to wonder if the Pats really are interested in trying to run the ball at this point.
He certainly knows way more than I do, so I guess we should stick with that. I personally am starting to wonder if the Pats really are interested in trying to run the ball at this point.
Bizkiteer
Footballguy
I'd say "what a waste of talent then" to that comment. I thought they were trying to save him for the later part of the season, come playoff time. Now, I just don't know.As far as what someone else mentioned about his reaction to scoring...they guy doesn't get many opportunities to score, so why not be overly happy when you do.
parrot
Footballguy
I attributed it to the packages they were running.
Ed Wood
Footballguy
The Scientist said:
"Second best"? Moss is their second best.I have to agree with a lot of what's been posted here but not that Maroney is the second best player. I do agree that they're saving him. NE likely won't be as pass happy as the weather REALLY starts to turn. Then they'll turn to Maroney. He DOES seem like a team guy. He was congratulating Evans on the first touchdown. And I think his exuberance is just excitement at scoring, not "look at me." You want "look at me," look as Samuel. Ugh. Every time they showed that hilite I made sure to change the channel before he started preening.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
But this is also the same source that told me early on that the Pats' master plan was to get Maroney more integrated into the offense and more carries as the year went on.Maybe it's just me, but IMO "not on the field at all in the first half" doesn't really mrsh with "more integrated into the offense."
Iwannabeacowboybaby!
Footballguy
Couple of things that strike me with your comment. One, Tom Brady is their best offensive player and the best offensive player in the league this year.Randy Moss is their 2nd best player.Now, after that there can be some debate but my vote is for Wes Welker. He basically won that game for him last night and he does so many things for NE, the guy is just a football player. To me, Maroney couldn't hold a candle to Wes Welker and the things he does. Maroney could be out a month and the Patriots wouldn't even hardly miss him.In fact, I think even Stallworth and Ben Watson are more valuable to the Patriots than Maroney.I'd actually need some convincing that Maroney is better than Sammy Smith because from what I saw this year, Smith brought more to the table than Maroney.The Scientist said:
parrot
Footballguy
But you mentioned before the Light had indicated they maybe didn't intend to run the spread quite as much as they did. I suppose that could indicate they are not all the confident in Maroney or they might have just thought it was the best approach given what Philly was throwing at them. If they were to go away from the shotgun/spread and Maroney was not the guy in the backfield, then I would be worried.But this is also the same source that told me early on that the Pats' master plan was to get Maroney more integrated into the offense and more carries as the year went on.Maybe it's just me, but IMO "not on the field at all in the first half" doesn't really mrsh with "more integrated into the offense."I attributed it to the packages they were running.
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
That was a nice TD by Maroney... nice Burst; look maroney is only 22... still just a kid in NFL standards; 2008 should be a different story, hopefully the Pats go back to their Run 1st system next season.
Sputnikv8
Footballguy
So, they are just saving him for next year!
:sigh:"Ploy to motivate Tatum" = "Saving Maroney for next year"
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
not saying their saving him... but his game isn't developed yet... and I see that his pass blocking isn't what it should be.So, they are just saving him for next year!:sigh:"Ploy to motivate Tatum" = "Saving Maroney for next year"
twitch
Footballguy
Ive gotta disagree with whoever suggested Maroney is not a 'team' guy as evidenced by how he celebrates a score. He's scored twice! Talk about a small sample size. But those scores have come on consecutive weeks now. Encouraging. Last week's score of course was his 1st of the season. In week 11! Im throwing any celebration there out for obvious reasons. And after last night's score, which gave the Pats the lead and ended up the game winner and therefore was a HUGE score, he jumped up and looked at the crowd for all of about 2 seconds before jumping up onto a bunch of his linemen. Hardly a 'me first' display. So that me first logic with Maroney is BS. The kid has been nothing but a solid team player, accepting his role, giving his best whenever he's called on. Never says a bad word, talks nothing but team, always has a smile on his face. He's with this team for atleast 3 more years. If he's wondering why he doesnt get more action, he'll understand at the end of the season if he ends up with a ring.
Which brings me to the second point. That Maroney's being saved a little for the stretch run. This team, as would any, will be in big trouble if come playoff time they cant run the ball, or atleast have the threat of a run. The easiest way for them to lose that threat is to lose Maroney. Morris is already done for the year. Faulk took a huge hit last week and missed half the game with what looked like a concussion. And then last night he got lit up several times, one of which was a monsterous shot delivered by Takeo Spikes that would have shelved most of us for about a week. With Spikes and Brian Dawkins lurking, I was once again glad to see Maroney used sparingly.
It was NE's approach coming into the game to not at all feature LM. Not that he's a horrible pass receiver, but he's nowhere in Faulk's league in the passing game, either catching or picking up blitzes. Faulk imo is one of the best in the league at both and he's a trusted veteran. But what he isnt is a featured runner. He isnt capable of carrying the ball 25 times in January. NE made the slight adjusment by atleast giving Laurence a few carries in the 2nd half to provide a little more balance. And he ended up with 10 carries, so it was a decent 2 quarter workload. They set him up on one screen pass that could have been a nice gain, but he dropped it. I wont hammer him for that because the guy was probably so cold, he may have been in partial shock that they actually called his #. RBs are just like Qs. They need touches to find a rythym.
Belichick is using Maroney the way he sees most benefiting the team in the long run. This is a 'big picture' situation. Keep the kid healthy and save him for when you'll really need him. In the playoffs.
Which brings me to the second point. That Maroney's being saved a little for the stretch run. This team, as would any, will be in big trouble if come playoff time they cant run the ball, or atleast have the threat of a run. The easiest way for them to lose that threat is to lose Maroney. Morris is already done for the year. Faulk took a huge hit last week and missed half the game with what looked like a concussion. And then last night he got lit up several times, one of which was a monsterous shot delivered by Takeo Spikes that would have shelved most of us for about a week. With Spikes and Brian Dawkins lurking, I was once again glad to see Maroney used sparingly.
It was NE's approach coming into the game to not at all feature LM. Not that he's a horrible pass receiver, but he's nowhere in Faulk's league in the passing game, either catching or picking up blitzes. Faulk imo is one of the best in the league at both and he's a trusted veteran. But what he isnt is a featured runner. He isnt capable of carrying the ball 25 times in January. NE made the slight adjusment by atleast giving Laurence a few carries in the 2nd half to provide a little more balance. And he ended up with 10 carries, so it was a decent 2 quarter workload. They set him up on one screen pass that could have been a nice gain, but he dropped it. I wont hammer him for that because the guy was probably so cold, he may have been in partial shock that they actually called his #. RBs are just like Qs. They need touches to find a rythym.
Belichick is using Maroney the way he sees most benefiting the team in the long run. This is a 'big picture' situation. Keep the kid healthy and save him for when you'll really need him. In the playoffs.
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David Yudkin
Footballguy
I'm not sure I agree with the conclusion. IMO, "saving" Maroney is one thing, but not getting him playing time is another. At this point, I would not feel all that confident that Maroney could step in and have the endurance potentially required to play an entire game, would not be able to pick up blitz packages to save Brady's behind, and has very few reps running plays that would get him in sync with the offense. He certainly does not have a ton of experience under his belt to suggest that he is a plug and play back with no worries that he could jump in and be a key contributor (like we could say about Faulk).
gethugefast1
Footballguy
It certainly a nice situation for a team that doesn't need any extra bonuses. To have a young stud(lightly) waiting in the wings when or if they need him if the situation is called upon(weather?). Just look at some of the young RB talent that has come in fresh off the bench against beat up defenses in the 2nd half of the season. Pats can delay using someone fresh since they are beating teams up with just the passing game.
IMO...I did like to see LM come in to change up the passing assault and adding a TD, but why wasn't he in there for the Evans goal line carry and score? Or why wasn't Evans in there when LM got the GL score? Didn't seem consistent from BB. Any thoughts?
IMO...I did like to see LM come in to change up the passing assault and adding a TD, but why wasn't he in there for the Evans goal line carry and score? Or why wasn't Evans in there when LM got the GL score? Didn't seem consistent from BB. Any thoughts?
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twitch
Footballguy
So what's your conclusion, then? Riddle me, please.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
My conclusion is that Maroney should be at a point where he is physically ready to go and if the Pats feel like rushing the ball in any given week, he will see the majority of whatever carries they have. But at this point my enthusism has waned as to his outlook the rest of the way for 2007. In standard scoring leagues, he's had a high of 11 points and one other game at 10. In most weeks, 10 points equates to bottom tier RB2 production. So in his BEST weeks, Maroney has been a medicore RB2 option. ANd now we have to worry how much work he'll get.I think he's a decent option should the Pats elect to use him, but at this stage there have not been a lot of signs that he's going to explode. Since Week 3, he's had 15 carries once. I don't care which RB in the league it is, not getting a decent workload will be hard to overcome.Maybe the Pats will do a 180 next week and give him 30 carries. But I wouldn't bet on that happening.
Bizkiteer
Footballguy
Clearly something is going on that we are not aware of at this point. I do think that regardless of the coach's dislike, if any, he still needs Maroney (seeing that Sammy Morris went down and such). Again, I thought it was to save him at first and get him fully healthy, but not playing for an entire half this past Sunday and not playing for the last half of the game the week before...something going on. Rest a player a bit when he is normally playing is ok and understandable, but when the player is not playing on a regular basis...resting just doesn't make sense.
There is something going on, whether they will admit it or not but NE while trying to go undefeated is also trying very hard to get Brady the single season TD record. Everybody should be aware of it at this point. The only reason they ran the ball in goal line situations last night is because they absolutely had to in order to win the game first and foremost. Edgerrin James #s suffered when Peyton Manning was going for the record, so it is no suprise that Maroney and the NE running game as a whole is suffering this year in order to sacrafice for Brady's benefit.
twitch
Footballguy
New England has more rushing yards than the Colts, Cowboys, Chargers, Broncos and roughly 20 other teams this year. Theyre 7th in the league. Is Favre going after some kindof record this year?? Would that explain why Green Bay is dead last in the NFL in rushing yards? The case for Brady's #s have zero impact on why Maroney is being used the way he has been.
eom
Footballguy
I haven't heard anything from the pats about them saving him.basically, he's been injured the whole first half of the season, and since they were already rolling up 50 ppg and had sammy there was no reason to rush him back.then sammy goes out, bye week comes and goes, maroney gets healthy -- now you'd like to see something.I don't think any of that is a stretch.week 11 -- he's in and playing but supposedly goes out w/a hurt foot.while it's being checked out they have the game blown wide open, so why put him back in?week 12 -- for whatever reason, belichick decides to try spreading wr's.not like he's never gone that route --- think minny last year was all shotgun.he sticks w/his plan for the first half, then decides to return to a bit more 'normalcy' and maroney's playing.the fact is, while new england will run the ball, I really don't see that their running game is in any way dependant on maroney, so it's not like he absolutely has to be in there, and it's not like they can't run the offense from shotgun, although I wouldn't expect a lot of that.if one back is going to be in there under those situations, it'd be faulk, rather than maroney.I still have hope for maroney -- maybe not against baltimore, but those week 15+16 matches look good.Which is what exactly? That theyre saving him for the playoffs so he's healthy this time and doesnt rush twice for -2 yards in the 2nd hafl of the AFCC game this year? In a crushing loss. OK. It is what it is.
I was mainly refering to why they pass the majority of the time around the goal line, and also why Kevin Faulk plays more than Maroney right now. IMO it is just because BB trusts Faulk more in passing situations because Maroney is still young and raw. His playing time is cut dramatically because they are always in 4 or 5 wide sets and he is not part of that package. I also think when he gets the opportunity to run that he is hindered due the the fact that when he is in the game there is a very high percentage of a chance that they are going to run the ball, so defenses pretty much know that when Maroney is in there they should play and anticipate the run.
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twitch
Footballguy
And that makes perfect sense. There are alot of good theories as to why the NE running game is "suffering". But let's just clear this up. Its got nothing to do with Brady's #s, and nothing to do with whatever the Colts did in the past. Indy in 2004 was 15th in the NFL in rushing yds at less than 116 a game. And they had 10 rushing TDs the entire season. New England is 7th in rushing at 124/game and theyve already rushed for 12 TDs. With 5 games left in their season. So, enough with the Maroney and the NE rushing offense is suffering to get Brady some record #s. Its about winning Superbowls in NE. Plain and simple.
gethugefast1
Footballguy
I haven't heard anything from the pats about them saving him.basically, he's been injured the whole first half of the season, and since they were already rolling up 50 ppg and had sammy there was no reason to rush him back.Which is what exactly? That theyre saving him for the playoffs so he's healthy this time and doesnt rush twice for -2 yards in the 2nd hafl of the AFCC game this year? In a crushing loss. OK. It is what it is.
then sammy goes out, bye week comes and goes, maroney gets healthy -- now you'd like to see something.
I don't think any of that is a stretch.
week 11 -- he's in and playing but supposedly goes out w/a hurt foot.
while it's being checked out they have the game blown wide open, so why put him back in?
week 12 -- for whatever reason, belichick decides to try spreading wr's.
not like he's never gone that route --- think minny last year was all shotgun.
he sticks w/his plan for the first half, then decides to return to a bit more 'normalcy' and maroney's playing.
I did like to see LM come in to change up the passing assault and adding a TD, but why wasn't he in there for the Evans goal line carry and score? Or why wasn't Evans in there when LM got the GL score? Didn't seem consistent from BB. Any thoughts?
the fact is, while new england will run the ball, I really don't see that their running game is in any way dependant on maroney, so it's not like he absolutely has to be in there, and it's not like they can't run the offense from shotgun, although I wouldn't expect a lot of that.
if one back is going to be in there under those situations, it'd be faulk, rather than maroney.
I still have hope for maroney -- maybe not against baltimore, but those week 15+16 matches look good.
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eom
Footballguy
I'm a big pats fan, but wasn't all that interested by maroney on draft day because I was afraid he'd get vultured a lot by guys like sammy and evans.
the first td was from the 1, so it doesn't surprise me that evans would get the call -- that's his role.
the maroney td was actually from the 4, so maybe that was the deciding factor.
of course, this could be all baseless rationalization.
I just wouldn't expect to see maroney when they're running a no huddle shotgun, and I kind of doubt he chose that route because of anything to do w/maroney.
you might even see more of that against baltimore, but like I said earlier, I hold out hope for the fantasy playoffs.
although, eventually we're going to run out of weeks....
the first td was from the 1, so it doesn't surprise me that evans would get the call -- that's his role.
the maroney td was actually from the 4, so maybe that was the deciding factor.
of course, this could be all baseless rationalization.
I just wouldn't expect to see maroney when they're running a no huddle shotgun, and I kind of doubt he chose that route because of anything to do w/maroney.
you might even see more of that against baltimore, but like I said earlier, I hold out hope for the fantasy playoffs.
although, eventually we're going to run out of weeks....
AngryPatriot
Footballguy
Some good posts on this thread. I would agree that it might be wise to get him into battle shape with more work but is it necessary, maybe not. I liked the way he ran aggressively on the 4 yd td run. I see him dance and stutter too much on too many runs, although, once again, there's not enough of a sample. That is one thing I could see Bellichick not liking at all. IMO he seemed more decisive and just a bit quicker last year. From the relatively little I've seen of him I'd say he's more in the mold of a Willie Parker, a guy who if you stick with over the course of a game, will eventually break a couple for big plays. I hope they get him the ball on screen plays because he is dynamic in the open field. I love some of the complex plays; fake a quick throw to the wr, fake a draw handoff, spin and throw a little screen. I think the Pats have a lot up their sleeves.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
I don't know what the definition of a "big play" is, but I'm going to call it a play of 20 yards or more. In 2007, he has had 0 such plays. In 2006, he had 10 plays of 20 or more yards (3 were receptions). Combining all his regular season and post-season plays to date over his career, Maroney has had 10 "big plays" in 336 touches (1 in every 33.6).Since FWP was used for comparison, I looked up his numbers. He's had 11 "big plays" this year and had 14 in 06, 11 in 05, and 2 in 04. That works out to 38 "big plays" in 991 total career touches (or 1 in every 26 touches).I really have no idea if those ratios are good, bad, or indefferent as I have no other points for comparison.
