Martin Luther King (1 Viewer)

[Darth Cheney]

the legacy of King benefited from his early demise. He's kind of like Kurt Cobain, James Dean and Jesus of Nazareth.

I agree with this sentiment (aside from the gratuitous swipe at Christianity). Who knows how MLK would have "evolved" if he had lived on for several more decades? As things actually played out, Americans are left with a highly-idealized version of King in which he is fighting against clear, obvious injustices. Jesse Jackson used to fight against those same injustices, but I think it's safe to say that the doesn't enjoy the same kind of stature that King enjoys. I'm not saying that MLK would definitely have fallen to Jesse Jackson's level. It's just that nobody can say that such a thing is clearly impossible. Nobody knows, even if they think they do.

It's not a swipe. Pontius Pilate didn't have to enforce the whim of the crowd. If Jesus doesn't die.... what happens to Christianity?

 

[menobrown]

Although not an Obama supporter, I'm one of those who give him a pass on this. Can you say with any authority that MLK would have rejected every facet of Jeremiah Wright's speechs?

Every facet? No. But the predominance of his positions? Yes. King was no saint, but he did believe in moving the relationship amongst different peoples forward and was an incredibly dynamic force in doing so. I don't think any rational person can say that about Wright.

Wright was due to appear in Dallas last week for some kind of Black church conference and due to security concerns he canceled. That did not stop him from getting praised during the meeting, compared to MLK and suggestions by members that this was something white people just don't get. Read it for yourself but this is precisely why we continue to have race issues today.The link: http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...it.bad57f3.html

The article:

By JEFFREY WEISS / The Dallas Morning News

jweiss@dallasnews.com

More than two dozen well-known black preachers and scholars, in Dallas for a long-planned conference, offered unequivocal support Friday for one of their number who was not there.

The Rev. Jeremiah Wright, now world-famous as the former pastor and spiritual mentor of presidential candidate Barack Obama, was to be the guest of honor at the Black Church Summit held by Brite Divinity School. Amid the recent controversy about some of his sermons, Dr. Wright decided not to attend, but the summit started Friday as scheduled.

Most of the event was not open to the media, but several of the scholars and preachers spoke at a news conference. They said that Dr. Wright's sermons fit into a long-standing black tradition of prophetic preaching – one that the Rev. Martin Luther King also emerged from.

"We have learned in recent days that you cannot reduce any black church to a monolith, much less a sound bite," said the Rev. Frederick Haynes III, senior pastor at Friendship West Baptist Church in southern Dallas, which hosted the summit.

"If Martin Luther King Jr. were pastoring a church today, it would look very much like Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, Illinois, and the sermons you would hear him preach would sound very much" like Dr. Wright's, Dr. Haynes said.

Dr. Stacey Floyd-Thomas, director of the black church studies program at Brite, said that the controversy over Dr. Wright's sermons is an indication of how little many whites know about what happens routinely at many black churches.

"It's news to you," she said. "Black America has long known about the tradition of religious formation within mainline white congregations. Now, for the very first time in history, mainline America, white America is finding out something about its black church."

Mr. Wright has been cited by Mr. Obama as his longtime pastor and spiritual mentor. In the last couple of weeks, parts of some of Mr. Wright's sermons have been repeatedly rebroadcast. In the sound bites, he attacks the Iraq war, says that AIDS was produced by the U.S. government and calls for God's condemnation of the U.S. for its policies on illegal drugs.

But that needs to be set into the context of preachers like Dr. King, who once called America "the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today," Dr. Floyd-Thomas said. And he had been scheduled to deliver a sermon entitled "Why America May Go to Hell" on the Sunday after he was assassinated in 1968, she added.

Dr. Wright had been scheduled to attend the Friday summit, and Brite had planned to honor him at a banquet tonight at Friendship West. Those appearances were canceled.

Dr. Wright also was scheduled to preach at a Florida church this week and at a Houston church on Sunday. Local organizers said those events were canceled for "security reasons."

 

[timschochet]

While I agree with this generally, there are two aspects of Wright's speeches that I do not believe King would adopt:

1. Wright believes Aids was started by the federal government to kill off Black people in America. This is extremist and conspiracy minded, and MLK neither wrote or said any thing in his lifetime (at least that I'm aware of) that would be close to this line of thinking.

2. MLK was throughout his lifetime very close to Jews (who were tied to the civil rights movement) and a staunch supporter of Israel. The anti-Jewish, anti-Israeli viewpoint that has grown somewhat within the Black community since his death, and which is expressed with great vigor by Louis Farrakhan and now recently by Wright I believe would be completely condemned by King.

I think these two issues would cause MLK, if he were alive, to distance himself from Wright. But his distancing would be similar to that of Obama; disagreement on the issues, but no condemnation and an attempt at understanding what causes such viewpoints. MLK's attitude towards Malcolm X should provide a useful blueprint towards believing this to be true.

 

[P Boy]

Most of the event was not open to the media, but several of the scholars and preachers spoke at a news conference. They said that Dr. Wright's sermons fit into a long-standing black tradition of prophetic preaching – one that the Rev. Martin Luther King also emerged from.

"If Martin Luther King Jr. were pastoring a church today, it would look very much like Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, Illinois, and the sermons you would hear him preach would sound very much" like Dr. Wright's, Dr. Haynes said.

But that needs to be set into the context of preachers like Dr. King, who once called America "the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today," Dr. Floyd-Thomas said. And he had been scheduled to deliver a sermon entitled "Why America May Go to Hell" on the Sunday after he was assassinated in 1968, she added.

So your evidence for this is based upon others' speculations of what would have happened had he lived, and it would appear that those sources have a bias built in, rather than being based upon actual events where you can find examples of Jackson or Wright preaching unity and equality between races, religions, and ethnicities.I can find examples of where Jackson and Wright preached exactly against those ideals. Shall we revisit Jackson's "hymietown" reference or his reference of the Republican majority in Congress being akin to Nazi fascism and South African racism. I can also find examples of Wright stating that America deserved the 9/11 terrorist attack or that the government invented AIDS as a means of genocide for the black community, or how about the US of KKK A?

Does that sound like anything King was preaching to you?

 

[menobrown]

Most of the event was not open to the media, but several of the scholars and preachers spoke at a news conference. They said that Dr. Wright's sermons fit into a long-standing black tradition of prophetic preaching – one that the Rev. Martin Luther King also emerged from.

"If Martin Luther King Jr. were pastoring a church today, it would look very much like Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, Illinois, and the sermons you would hear him preach would sound very much" like Dr. Wright's, Dr. Haynes said.

But that needs to be set into the context of preachers like Dr. King, who once called America "the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today," Dr. Floyd-Thomas said. And he had been scheduled to deliver a sermon entitled "Why America May Go to Hell" on the Sunday after he was assassinated in 1968, she added.

So your evidence for this is based upon others' speculations of what would have happened had he lived, and it would appear that those sources have a bias built in, rather than being based upon actual events where you can find examples of Jackson or Wright preaching unity and equality between races, religions, and ethnicities.I can find examples of where Jackson and Wright preached exactly against those ideals. Shall we revisit Jackson's "hymietown" reference or his reference of the Republican majority in Congress being akin to Nazi fascism and South African racism. I can also find examples of Wright stating that America deserved the 9/11 terrorist attack or that the government invented AIDS as a means of genocide for the black community, or how about the US of KKK A?

Does that sound like anything King was preaching to you?

You do know I just posted an article and those are not my feelings right?

 

[P Boy]

You do know I just posted an article and those are not my feelings right?

Yep. I also know that you bolded certain areas, presumably as some kind of proof that Wright is comparable to King. If that was not your intention, I apologize.

 

[RoarinSonoran]

Martin Luther King Jr. died at age 39; today, the 40th anniversary of his death, is the first time he has been gone longer than he lived.

Pardon the interruption for picking nits, but this is wrong. June 23, 2007 was the date at which he was dead for as long as he lived.I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

I don't have any great "a-ha" trap waiting for your response. I just think, based on everything I know about King and other civil rights leaders, his views today would be pretty close to those of Jeremiah Wright and Jesse Jackson. I think it's a huge leap to think that Dr. King would have moved in a completely diferent direction from his associates and contemporaries.

So this is the message you are hearing from Jackson & Wright?With this faith, we will be able to hew out of the mountain of despair a stone of hope. With this faith, we will be able to transform the jangling discords of our nation into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood. With this faith, we will be able to work together, to pray together, to struggle together, to go to jail together, to stand up for freedom together, knowing that we will be free one day.

And this will be the day -- this will be the day when all of God's children will be able to sing with new meaning:

My country 'tis of thee, sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing.

Land where my fathers died, land of the Pilgrim's pride,

From every mountainside, let freedom ring!

And if America is to be a great nation, this must become true.

...

And when this happens, when we allow freedom ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual:

Free at last! Free at last!

Thank God Almighty, we are free at last!

Because if it is, I'd appreciate that you take the time to alleviate my ignorance in this matter.

We're asking what King would be saying today, not what he said over 40 years ago. What were Jeremiah Wright and Jesse Jackson saying 40 years ago? I suspect it was very similar to what MLK was saying. In the intervening years, MLK would have been influenced by the same circumstances that influenced Wright and Jackson to express sentiments you disagree with.

 

[P Boy]

We're asking what King would be saying today, not what he said over 40 years ago. What were Jeremiah Wright and Jesse Jackson saying 40 years ago? I suspect it was very similar to what MLK was saying. In the intervening years, MLK would have been influenced by the same circumstances that influenced Wright and Jackson to express sentiments you disagree with.

I couldn't disagree with you more. You say you "suspect" these guys were saying the same thing King was, but you don't seem to have a basis for that other than your feelings on the matter. And then you are convinced that King would have reacted to that influence in the same way.My contention is that King was motivated by a different (and much higher) calling. While I may have disagreed with some his positions if he continued on his path, I have a "feeling" that he still would have been a man whose ultimate goals I could have admired, and whose methods would not have sunk to those of Jackson & Wright.It's all supposition, but I believe King's heart & head were in the right place and would continue to be so. I certainly can't say that about either Jackson or Wright. Funny that as a conservative I seem to believe in the better in this man...

 

[cstu]

Don't see how the loss of King was anything but a bad thing for race relations. Seems like an easy leap to suggest that 40 more years of his presence would have helped a great deal. At the very least, he would give the black community a national example of how to cope with problems in a constructive manner. After his death, no one was able to fully fill that void in a positive way.

At the very least he would've lessened the impact of self-serving guys like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton.

 

[wikkidpissah]

i dont think it's fair to group Wright & Jackson & Sharpton.

- Wright is about as angry as i'd be if a was a black man who cared about his people & i dont see the difference between Obama's tolerance of his radicalism and that of so many to whom Falwell or Robertson became attached

- Sharpton cares about little more than the camera

- Jackson was an honorable man (actually wrote him in for prez in 92) who, as the defacto leader of afroamerica, got dragged down into that morass of having to weigh in on every racial issue until it marginalized him. our need for a great man in that position is that the burden of having to be all-black-all-the-time is so great.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

- Jackson was an honorable man (actually wrote him in for prez in 92) who, as the defacto leader of afroamerica, got dragged down into that morass of having to weigh in on every racial issue until it marginalized him.

So isn't this what would have happened to King if he lived?

 

[cstu]

i dont think it's fair to group Wright & Jackson & Sharpton.- Wright is about as angry as i'd be if a was a black man who cared about his people & i dont see the difference between Obama's tolerance of his radicalism and that of so many to whom Falwell or Robertson became attached- Sharpton cares about little more than the camera- Jackson was an honorable man (actually wrote him in for prez in 92) who, as the defacto leader of afroamerica, got dragged down into that morass of having to weigh in on every racial issue until it marginalized him. our need for a great man in that position is that the burden of having to be all-black-all-the-time is so great.

Jesse Jackson's career has always been met with controversy, and one example of this was after King's assassination, when some thought Jackson became a self-proclaimed African-American leader of America, after Martin Luther King's assassination. He was often accused of working under the guise of leadership for self-serving purposes -- whether this is true or not, Jackson was suspended from the SCLC in 1971, for this very reason.

 

[cstu]

- Jackson was an honorable man (actually wrote him in for prez in 92) who, as the defacto leader of afroamerica, got dragged down into that morass of having to weigh in on every racial issue until it marginalized him.

So isn't this what would have happened to King if he lived?

No. Jesse Jackson never was and never will be anything like MLK. Jesse only cares about Jesse.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

i dont think it's fair to group Wright & Jackson & Sharpton.- Wright is about as angry as i'd be if a was a black man who cared about his people & i dont see the difference between Obama's tolerance of his radicalism and that of so many to whom Falwell or Robertson became attached- Sharpton cares about little more than the camera- Jackson was an honorable man (actually wrote him in for prez in 92) who, as the defacto leader of afroamerica, got dragged down into that morass of having to weigh in on every racial issue until it marginalized him. our need for a great man in that position is that the burden of having to be all-black-all-the-time is so great.

I actually agree with this. I'm not even close to being a fan of Jesse Jackson, but he doesn't deserve to lumped in with Sharpton and Wright.

 

[menobrown]

You do know I just posted an article and those are not my feelings right?

Yep. I also know that you bolded certain areas, presumably as some kind of proof that Wright is comparable to King. If that was not your intention, I apologize.

I had bolded the parts that I thought pertained to this discussion to show that leaders in the black church believe Wright is similar to MLK but this is not a sentiment I agree with at all. In fact I think it's pure and total BS.

 

[wikkidpissah]

- Jackson was an honorable man (actually wrote him in for prez in 92) who, as the defacto leader of afroamerica, got dragged down into that morass of having to weigh in on every racial issue until it marginalized him.

So isn't this what would have happened to King if he lived?

entirely possible. the major hopes that he wouldnt have lay with two things: 1) when he died, Dr King's act was mostly playing with whites & southern blacks. he had yet a lot of work to do with northern & western blacks to co-opt their anger into progressive action. that any people have leadership options is a good thing and, if a schism didn't develop for the forces-that-be to capitalize on to neuter both, there might have been a plethora of voices, leaving as many leaders to yaysay as to naysay.2) King, along with Kennedy & Reagan, is one of three americans in my lifetime who can truly be called statesmen. they each, for their own reasons, were able to put the country's morale & morality on their backs to carry them across the threshhold of new frontiers. I truly believe that King would today be more of a moral than political leader, the one continuing & definitive voice of the Land of Opportunity that greed and divisiveness have since waylayed.

 

[P Boy]

- Jackson was an honorable man (actually wrote him in for prez in 92) who, as the defacto leader of afroamerica, got dragged down into that morass of having to weigh in on every racial issue until it marginalized him. our need for a great man in that position is that the burden of having to be all-black-all-the-time is so great.

You seriously believe this? Wow.

 

[Bob Magaw]

The two disc, four and a half hour bio titled King (with Paul Winfield and Cicely Tyson) was very well done, highly recommended.