Official Stephen King Publication Countdown - 2. 'Salem's Lot, 1. The Stand (1 Viewer)

[Zow]

This was a fun thread, @turnjose7 Thanks for doing it.

Poor @timschochet puts in the same effort and doesn't get the same love.

Both of these guys do a great job with their rankings.

I give tim his props in the threads that mean something to me.

As you can probably tell (since I have to have to 2nd-most posts in this thread), I'm a huge King fan. I'd be the same if someone did the "Top Temptations Songs Of All Time".

If unclear, my comment wasn't directed at you even though it was a response to your post. I meant it as more of a general "Tim puts this effort in all the time and still gets **** on quite a bit..." general comment.

 

[Frostillicus]

Great list, great thread, great job. I've read everything he's ever written and I don't have any major quibbles.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

This was a fun thread, @turnjose7 Thanks for doing it.

Poor @timschochet puts in the same effort and doesn't get the same love.

Both of these guys do a great job with their rankings.

I give tim his props in the threads that mean something to me.

As you can probably tell (since I have to have to 2nd-most posts in this thread), I'm a huge King fan. I'd be the same if someone did the "Top Temptations Songs Of All Time".

If unclear, my comment wasn't directed at you even though it was a response to your post. I meant it as more of a general "Tim puts this effort in all the time and still gets **** on quite a bit..." general comment.

I hear you. Some of that is leftover vitriol from a closed sub-forum-that-will-not-be-named and some of that is because tim makes declarations (as opposed to opinions) about art that others don't agree with. Or, it's a combination of both. I like his threads and appreciates the work he puts into them.

I'll hold off on going any deeper into the psychology of a major part of the regular posters here (myself included) so as not to derail things.

 

[Zow]

Great list, great thread, great job. I've read everything he's ever written and I don't have any major quibbles.

I'm super biased to Rage and It, but despite my opinion that they are under ranked the OP did a phenomenal job with this.

 

[Skipdog77]

Great list, great thread, great job. I've read everything he's ever written and I don't have any major quibbles.

I like to think that, while unstated in the book, the Major's last name in The Long Walk is Quibbles.

 

[foxco]

Terrific thread and has made me revisit some of my old faves, especially the short stories. So many hidden gems.

Personal fave: Salems' Lot
Opening line: The Man in Black fled into the desert, and the Gunslinger followed.
Villain: Sir Flagg the Walkin' Dude
Horrifying End: Pet Sematary
Couldn't finish: The Dome
Most enjoyable recent King: The Institute
Thought they might be real when first read as a child: Lobstrosities
Biggest Hero Move: Bill Denbrough leading the losers against Pennywise not once, but twice. (Obviously Roland's middle name is Hero but Bill's just some stuttering dude!)
The "Ick": Frank Dodd and his "slick" raincoat
Best two stories that end with the word "hope": Rita Hayworth and the Shawshank Redemption, The Mist.

 

[turnjose7]

This was a fun thread, @turnjose7 Thanks for doing it.

Poor @timschochet puts in the same effort and doesn't get the same love.

Both of these guys do a great job with their rankings.

I really appreciate @timschochet's rankings, even if I often don't agree with them

 

[Brunell4MVP]

2. ‘Salem’s Lot
1975
Novel
Horror
4/5
- Jerusalem’s Lot story

“Small towns have long memories and pass their horrors down ceremonially from generation to generation.”

“And all around them, the bestiality of the night rises on tenebrous wings. The vampire’s time has come.”


I’ve commented in the Top Books of All Time thread that I think King has some books – like Hearts in Atlantis and Bag of Bones that are brilliantly written and put King on the cusp of being not just a great storyteller, but a truly great writer. While they might not be quite as literary as those, I think it’s the top 2 novels that cement his legacy as an author.

Originally titled Second Coming, ‘Salem’s Lot was renamed to emphasize the fictional small town King created. While Castle Rock and Derry are probably more important to his larger body of work, Jerusalem’s Lot is my favorite of all of King’s fictional towns. The exquisite attention to detail with which he describes the Lot is so good that I have a picture of it in my mind that seems as real as my own neighborhood.

What King did in this novel was take a classic but stale genre and totally reinvented it, making it fresh again. It changed everything.

Oh yeah, it’s also keep-you-awake-at-night scary. I love this book so much. In my opinion it’s the best vampire story ever written.

this is my #1. I don't usually like vampire stuff. kinda fake. But this one is so darn good.

 

[turnjose7]

Just following up on a couple loose ends I said I would address. Like I said, having It just outside the top 5 is certainly not meant to be a slight. I love, love, love the book. There are parts of it that I think are among King's greatest achievements. At that level, it is really just a matter of everything being really good. There are probably days I would flip it with Drawing of the Three, maybe even with Pet Sematary. But as I was making the final decisions, there are two things that kept it just outside the top 5. First, as I have mentioned, I tend to lean more toward the larger scale stories. Not that I don't like the smaller, more personal stories (obviously Pet Sematary is one, and I have others like Shawshank ranked high). The Stand concerns the fate of the the world and the Dark Tower books the entire multiverse. Even 'Salem's Lot, while focused on a smaller footprint, feels like more of an existential threat (until the very end, I was expecting a scene of vampires ravaging Mexico). It feels a little smaller not only because it focuses on a single town, but even within that town the evil comes and goes.

The second reason might be sacrilege to some, but among the pantheon of King antagonists, Pennywise is nowhere near my favorite. Flagg is interesting anc complicated and in the scenes from The Stand in which you see things from his perspective, it is fascinating to see his emotional turmoil. Kurt Barlow takes an icon like Dracula and makes him feel small by being an even more terrifying representation of the same type of character. Annie Wilkes is a great villain. Greg Stillson is a great villain. Rose Hat is a great villain. But the scenes in It that are told from the perspective of Pennywise kind of bore me. He seems like a petulant child with delusions of grandeur who is just jealous that his cosmic turtle brother is the cool one.

The other point I wanted to follow up on was the discussion about King's endings. I agree with @Uruk-Hai that this complaint is overblown and in some ways lazy. A lot of King's books, most I would say, have great endings. I think there are a couple reasons this point gets parroted so often. First, some of his really biggest name books, like The Stand, probably do have some of the weaker endings and people mistakenly take this is being representative of all his work. Second, while it doesn't happen as often as I think some would believe, it is undeniably true that he can from time to time invoke a deus ex machina. Though I definitely think it is lazy to look at that as invariably being a flaw. Obviously it has a negative connotation, but in the right story the deus can make a lot of sense. You could even argue that is true in The Stand.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Just following up on a couple loose ends I said I would address. Like I said, having It just outside the top 5 is certainly not meant to be a slight. I love, love, love the book. There are parts of it that I think are among King's greatest achievements. At that level, it is really just a matter of everything being really good. There are probably days I would flip it with Drawing of the Three, maybe even with Pet Sematary. But as I was making the final decisions, there are two things that kept it just outside the top 5. First, as I have mentioned, I tend to lean more toward the larger scale stories. Not that I don't like the smaller, more personal stories (obviously Pet Sematary is one, and I have others like Shawshank ranked high). The Stand concerns the fate of the the world and the Dark Tower books the entire multiverse. Even 'Salem's Lot, while focused on a smaller footprint, feels like more of an existential threat (until the very end, I was expecting a scene of vampires ravaging Mexico). It feels a little smaller not only because it focuses on a single town, but even within that town the evil comes and goes.

The second reason might be sacrilege to some, but among the pantheon of King antagonists, Pennywise is nowhere near my favorite. Flagg is interesting anc complicated and in the scenes from The Stand in which you see things from his perspective, it is fascinating to see his emotional turmoil. Kurt Barlow takes an icon like Dracula and makes him feel small by being an even more terrifying representation of the same type of character. Annie Wilkes is a great villain. Greg Stillson is a great villain. Rose Hat is a great villain. But the scenes in It that are told from the perspective of Pennywise kind of bore me. He seems like a petulant child with delusions of grandeur who is just jealous that his cosmic turtle brother is the cool one.

The other point I wanted to follow up on was the discussion about King's endings. I agree with @Uruk-Hai that this complaint is overblown and in some ways lazy. A lot of King's books, most I would say, have great endings. I think there are a couple reasons this point gets parroted so often. First, some of his really biggest name books, like The Stand, probably do have some of the weaker endings and people mistakenly take this is being representative of all his work. Second, while it doesn't happen as often as I think some would believe, it is undeniably true that he can from time to time invoke a deus ex machina. Though I definitely think it is lazy to look at that as invariably being a flaw. Obviously it has a negative connotation, but in the right story the deus can make a lot of sense. You could even argue that is true in The Stand.

I don't think anyone - certainly not me - took having IT at #5 as a slight. I would've had it at #1, but that's my own preference. You made great cases for the stories you had ranked above it.

I agree that Pennywise's internal monologue is tedious (reading the word "dogsbody" 700 times makes me want to stab my eyeballs out with chopsticks). I'll push back a little and say that I think King has it right that most evil people are petulant children having temper tantrums.

The big criticism of the DT's later novels and some of the villians' downfalls is that they didn't go out with a bang. I thought they went out the way they deserved to - pathetically.

 

[The Longtime Lurker]

39. Doctor Sleep
2013
Novel
Horror, dark fantasy
3/5

Danny Torrance fights to protect a powerful young girl from a psychic cult.

The long-awaited sequel to The Shining does justice to the original. The scope of this book is a lot larger than its predecessor, with multiple settings, a larger cast of important characters, and greater demonstrations of supernatural abilities. It also gets a little bizarre and even darkly humorous with the primary antagonists being a convoy of elderly road-trippers cruising the highways in RVs. Nevertheless, it feels like a proper sequel. References to the original are used appropriately and add to the story but never overwhelm it. The development of Danny’s powers over time is well done. It took King more than 25 years to come back to one of his most iconic stories, and the result is one of the best things he has written in the second half of his career.

Finished this last week and i really enjoyed it. I think I agree with another post that i actually liked it better than the shining.. The big baddies were a bit underwhelming at times, but in the context of the story it made sense.

Just about to start the long walk and then i think I'll start with the books that tie into  the dark tower that were mentioned in the list

 

[turnjose7]

One last thing I meant to do to close out this thread. But before that, a quick update. Since I posted the list, I've finished The Girl Who Loved Tom Gordon and Dreamcatcher. I'd probably rank them in the mid-50s and mid-60s, respectively.

Anyway, one thing I intended to do but forgot was to give a rough estimate of the ranking of the collections that some of the stories come from. I obviously ranked each individual story here, but if I were to rank the various collections as a whole, it would probably be something like:
- Nightmares and Dreamscapes would be in the 40s or 50s
- Skeleton Crew would be in the 30s
- Everything's Eventual and Four Past Midnight would be in the 20s
- Different Seasons would be in the 10-15 range
- Hearts in Atlantis would in the 5-10 range
- Night Shift would be ranked #1 overall

That's based not only on the average quality of the individual stories, but also how well they work together as a collection.

Some have recommended Different Seasons as a good starting point for someone who has never read King before. I think that is a good choice, especially if you are uncertain about the horror elements. Alternatively, if you want to confront the horror head on, Night Shift provides that while also having the advantages of being a pretty quick read and chronologically being early in his publications. Though nothing wrong with just starting with Carrie either.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

One last thing I meant to do to close out this thread. But before that, a quick update. Since I posted the list, I've finished The Girl Who Loved Tom Gordon and Dreamcatcher. I'd probably rank them in the mid-50s and mid-60s, respectively.

Anyway, one thing I intended to do but forgot was to give a rough estimate of the ranking of the collections that some of the stories come from. I obviously ranked each individual story here, but if I were to rank the various collections as a whole, it would probably be something like:
- Nightmares and Dreamscapes would be in the 40s or 50s
- Skeleton Crew would be in the 30s
- Everything's Eventual and Four Past Midnight would be in the 20s
- Different Seasons would be in the 10-15 range
- Hearts in Atlantis would in the 5-10 range
- Night Shift would be ranked #1 overall

That's based not only on the average quality of the individual stories, but also how well they work together as a collection.

Some have recommended Different Seasons as a good starting point for someone who has never read King before. I think that is a good choice, especially if you are uncertain about the horror elements. Alternatively, if you want to confront the horror head on, Night Shift provides that while also having the advantages of being a pretty quick read and chronologically being early in his publications. Though nothing wrong with just starting with Carrie either.

I really liked .....Tom Gordon.

Dreamcatcher was kind of a mess, in my opinion. There were a lot of good elements in it, but they never seemed to gel. It's like King was writing four novels at the same time and crammed them all into one.

 

[Manster]

11. 11/22/63
2011
Novel
Alternate history, science fiction, thriller
1/5

This book got a lot of love in the All-time Books thread and I think I’ve seen it discussed in some other threads on this board, so I might leave it to others to provide thoughts on this. I’ll just say that it is a fascinating book, maybe King’s best in the last couple of decades. It did end up on a lot of top book lists regardless of genre in the year it was published.

The other things I’ll note are that King has clearly always had a fascination with the JFK assassination and it is referenced in a lot of his books. Also, as with “Dolan’s Cadillac,” this is another story in which King broke from his typical research laziness and really did his homework, even meeting with historians to make sure he got things right (we can quibble as to whether he always did or not, but he at least made the effort).

Reading this now. I'm maybe not quite a quarter of the way in.....I'm at the part where's he's following Frank Dunning in Derry.

So far, I'm enjoying it quite a bit. It's kind of got a nice, slow, steady pace, but not boring by any means. I'm sure that will change....lots of book left.

 

[turnjose7]

11. 11/22/63
2011
Novel
Alternate history, science fiction, thriller
1/5

This book got a lot of love in the All-time Books thread and I think I’ve seen it discussed in some other threads on this board, so I might leave it to others to provide thoughts on this. I’ll just say that it is a fascinating book, maybe King’s best in the last couple of decades. It did end up on a lot of top book lists regardless of genre in the year it was published.

The other things I’ll note are that King has clearly always had a fascination with the JFK assassination and it is referenced in a lot of his books. Also, as with “Dolan’s Cadillac,” this is another story in which King broke from his typical research laziness and really did his homework, even meeting with historians to make sure he got things right (we can quibble as to whether he always did or not, but he at least made the effort).

Reading this now. I'm maybe not quite a quarter of the way in.....I'm at the part where's he's following Frank Dunning in Derry.

So far, I'm enjoying it quite a bit. It's kind of got a nice, slow, steady pace, but not boring by any means. I'm sure that will change....lots of book left.

The Derry scenes, especially the dance practice scene, are a nice touch to make it feel more like a King story. Ultimately, though, they are less interesting to me because you don't' have the historical elements and because the stakes feel much lower (for Jake and in general).

 

[bigbottom]

11. 11/22/63
2011
Novel
Alternate history, science fiction, thriller
1/5

This book got a lot of love in the All-time Books thread and I think I’ve seen it discussed in some other threads on this board, so I might leave it to others to provide thoughts on this. I’ll just say that it is a fascinating book, maybe King’s best in the last couple of decades. It did end up on a lot of top book lists regardless of genre in the year it was published.

The other things I’ll note are that King has clearly always had a fascination with the JFK assassination and it is referenced in a lot of his books. Also, as with “Dolan’s Cadillac,” this is another story in which King broke from his typical research laziness and really did his homework, even meeting with historians to make sure he got things right (we can quibble as to whether he always did or not, but he at least made the effort).

Reading this now. I'm maybe not quite a quarter of the way in.....I'm at the part where's he's following Frank Dunning in Derry.

So far, I'm enjoying it quite a bit. It's kind of got a nice, slow, steady pace, but not boring by any means. I'm sure that will change....lots of book left.

I am reading this as well and am at the same point as you are in this post. I was a bit daunted by the length (my days of reading the 1200 page unabridged version of The Stand are behind me), but I was instantly hooked. While the time travel portal is a well-worn device, King’s approach is nevertheless fascinating and feels fresh. Gonna savor this one.

 

[Psychopav]

11. 11/22/63
2011
Novel
Alternate history, science fiction, thriller
1/5

This book got a lot of love in the All-time Books thread and I think I’ve seen it discussed in some other threads on this board, so I might leave it to others to provide thoughts on this. I’ll just say that it is a fascinating book, maybe King’s best in the last couple of decades. It did end up on a lot of top book lists regardless of genre in the year it was published.

The other things I’ll note are that King has clearly always had a fascination with the JFK assassination and it is referenced in a lot of his books. Also, as with “Dolan’s Cadillac,” this is another story in which King broke from his typical research laziness and really did his homework, even meeting with historians to make sure he got things right (we can quibble as to whether he always did or not, but he at least made the effort).

Reading this now. I'm maybe not quite a quarter of the way in.....I'm at the part where's he's following Frank Dunning in Derry.

So far, I'm enjoying it quite a bit. It's kind of got a nice, slow, steady pace, but not boring by any means. I'm sure that will change....lots of book left.

I am reading this as well and am at the same point as you are in this post. I was a bit daunted by the length (my days of reading the 1200 page unabridged version of The Stand are behind me), but I was instantly hooked. While the time travel portal is a well-worn device, King’s approach is nevertheless fascinating and feels fresh. Gonna savor this one.

This and Hearts in Atlantis benefit by King's fondness for the period. In many ways both are a love letter to the times of his youth. I wouldn't recommend these for people not familiar with King but for this reason they are great reads for those who are already fans and appreciate the warmth and baby boomer nostalgia you find in his writing.

 

[Navin Johnson]

11. 11/22/63
2011
Novel
Alternate history, science fiction, thriller
1/5

This book got a lot of love in the All-time Books thread and I think I’ve seen it discussed in some other threads on this board, so I might leave it to others to provide thoughts on this. I’ll just say that it is a fascinating book, maybe King’s best in the last couple of decades. It did end up on a lot of top book lists regardless of genre in the year it was published.

The other things I’ll note are that King has clearly always had a fascination with the JFK assassination and it is referenced in a lot of his books. Also, as with “Dolan’s Cadillac,” this is another story in which King broke from his typical research laziness and really did his homework, even meeting with historians to make sure he got things right (we can quibble as to whether he always did or not, but he at least made the effort).

Reading this now. I'm maybe not quite a quarter of the way in.....I'm at the part where's he's following Frank Dunning in Derry.

So far, I'm enjoying it quite a bit. It's kind of got a nice, slow, steady pace, but not boring by any means. I'm sure that will change....lots of book left.

I am reading this as well and am at the same point as you are in this post. I was a bit daunted by the length (my days of reading the 1200 page unabridged version of The Stand are behind me), but I was instantly hooked. While the time travel portal is a well-worn device, King’s approach is nevertheless fascinating and feels fresh. Gonna savor this one.

I was never a reader of long books but I was able to knock this one out a while back. It's a pretty steady read. Not sure I would have read Shantaram before this.

 

[Truebluey]

Great work! Love your dedication. And you have impeccable taste!

Can't argue with your top 3. I re-read The Stand during covid and it was amazing (and relevant). Salem's Lot needs no defense. And i love that you put Wizard and Glass at #3. That was an extraordinary work of fiction. The way all the elements came together floored me. Very few other books have been as evocative. The series was great, but that was the standout.

I would move The Shining up. It's been many, many years since I've read it, but it scared the hell out of me as a kid in a way no book had ever done. That, and The Gunslinger, are what got me into the King ouevre.