What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

martz frontrunner to coach cards? (1 Viewer)

Lauryn

Footballguy
sorry if honda... pretty interesting and great news for people who hold leinart and the twins, but i would hate to see him ditch the lions just when there's a little life in that poor franchise. would be fun though to see martz vs the rams twice a year. he called a great game earlier this year against st louis.

NFL Network's Adam Shefter reports that Mike Martz could be the leading candidate for the head coaching job in Arizona.

 
He is a much better offensive coordinator than coach. I hope he doens't accept any headcoaching jobs, and stays offensive coordinator for the lions. Roy Williams and Kevin Jones could be a force for years.

 
He is a much better offensive coordinator than coach. I hope he doens't accept any headcoaching jobs, and stays offensive coordinator for the lions. Roy Williams and Kevin Jones could be a force for years.
I agree. Some guys are great coordinators but just aren't cut out to be HCs.
 
QUOTE(azngangster @ Nov 7 2006, 09:48 PM) *He is a much better offensive coordinator than coach. I hope he doens't accept any headcoaching jobs, and stays offensive coordinator for the lions. Roy Williams and Kevin Jones could be a force for years.I agree. Some guys are great coordinators but just aren't cut out to be HCs.
I disagree. But Martz needs to end up somewhere where there is a GM or director of personnel in place that knows what they're doing. That was not the situation in StL.
 
QUOTE(azngangster @ Nov 7 2006, 09:48 PM) *He is a much better offensive coordinator than coach. I hope he doens't accept any headcoaching jobs, and stays offensive coordinator for the lions. Roy Williams and Kevin Jones could be a force for years.I agree. Some guys are great coordinators but just aren't cut out to be HCs.
I disagree. But Martz needs to end up somewhere where there is a GM or director of personnel in place that knows what they're doing. That was not the situation in StL.
trung canidate in the first round, anyone? :bag:
 
I'm a Leinart owner in a dynasty league, and I DONT want Martz as his HC. I'd rather have a healthy player for the entire year then a great player for 2 or 3 games until he gets IRd for the rest of the season. Look at the season Bulger is having now that Martz is gone (I also have Bulger in the same dynasty).

Keep away Martz!

 
He is a much better offensive coordinator than coach. I hope he doens't accept any headcoaching jobs, and stays offensive coordinator for the lions. Roy Williams and Kevin Jones could be a force for years.
I agree. Some guys are great coordinators but just aren't cut out to be HCs.
Agree 100% that Martz is better as an OC. Others head coaches that were much more effective as coordinators include Norv Turner, Wanny, and Buddy Ryan.
 
He is a much better offensive coordinator than coach. I hope he doens't accept any headcoaching jobs, and stays offensive coordinator for the lions. Roy Williams and Kevin Jones could be a force for years.
The "he's a better coordinator than a head coach" argument was once repeated many times over with regards to Bill Belicheck. Being a head coach is hard, and some guys don't get it right their first time. I think Martz would be quite successful with a second bite at the apple.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
i could be the OC in ARI & the offense would probably be good...

i'd have two plays... leinart passing to boldin & passing to fitzgerald...

i still think it would be hard for martz to screw that up...

he was criticized after leaving STL for things like being organizationally paranoid, not a very good communicator or a people person...

if he did get the job, he shouldn't have too much control over the draft process as i think the rams made an unacceptable number of mistakes during his tenure (some of that is on armey & GM zygmunt)... he would also be better served if someone else chose his DC (or keep pendergast) rather than another catastrophic try with marmie...

as to bulger getting killed, leinart is more mobile & elusive than him, & he is definitely a lot more mobile & elusive than warner...

 
Last edited by a moderator:
SammyJankis said:
azngangster said:
He is a much better offensive coordinator than coach. I hope he doens't accept any headcoaching jobs, and stays offensive coordinator for the lions. Roy Williams and Kevin Jones could be a force for years.
The "he's a better coordinator than a head coach" argument was once repeated many times over with regards to Bill Belicheck. Being a head coach is hard, and some guys don't get it right their first time. I think Martz would be quite successful with a second bite at the apple.
I disagree Mike Martz is a genius when it come to game planning but does not have the skills to be a sucessful NFL head coach. Marty Mornhinweg is a good example as well as Steve Mariucci and Dave Wannstedt.
 
in the statement by schefter and the context to follow, it is hard to tell if he is citing inside sources or it is pure speculation... at first i thought the former, but as i read on i wasn't so sure...

i could see it as being a good fit... the article didn't mention it, but i think martz has strong ties to the state of arizona... i think he coached in some capacity (probably not HC) there... maybe northern arizona (?)...

i'm not so sure he would be one of first people to get a call (for cards or around the NFL... ron rivera has been mentioned recently, and he was thought early in rams hunt that ended with linehan to be strong contender, though reportedly his organizational & communication skills & ability to convey a vision for the future & action plan that came across as thorough & balanced in terms of defense & offense suffered in comparison with linehan)... there were plenty of openings this offseason, & while i thought he would get a job, it wasn't clear if he even got a sniff... i thought with the skill position weapons in DET (roy williams & KJ) & a strong defensive presence & charismatic leader in marinelli it would deflect attention aawy & take pressure off his first post-rams job & would be perfect scenario for rehabilitating his image... maybe he would get another crack at a HC job in a few years (i have invoked the belichick example before as well... martz hasn't done a lot to suggest that he could climb to those heights with a second chance... but the point is neither did belichick first time around, and was heavily criticized for some of the same supposed personality flaws)...

he has done well turning around the lions offense, but that probably wasn't a huge surprise (except to those in DET hardened by experience to be pessimistic! :) )... maybe that turnaround came relatively quickly, not a given in a complex offense... it is possible that he is a good teacher (on offense at least) as well as being one of the best innovators & schemers on offense...

since he had already demonstrated what he can do with an offense in STL, it still leaves the question if the larger supposed flaws he has/had first go round as HC, as a leader, communicator, organizationally & his failures on defense (after lovie smith left) & ST that spooked so many teams in 06 will evaporate with merely a one year interval?

ARI might be the kind of team that takes a shot like that... they probably need to shake things up in a way that we wouldn't say in the case of a team like the cowboys, if parcells retires after this season...

* another possible convergence... when the rams offense was at its apex, warner made it so dangerous (there were other factors like having awesome chess piece like faulk as WR mismatch & red zone weapon) not so much because he had a rocket arm or threw deep all the time... more often it was for being decisive, fast & accurate on intermediate routes & getting the ball in the hands of the right person... leinart could do that, because those are some of his best attributes (i don't mean his career will unfold identically, but there are some parallels in their respective skill sets)... if boldin & fitz may not immediately seem like "martz" WRs, boldin isn't as fast as bruce but could run some of same intermediate crossing routes, & after the catch adds a dimension bruce doesn't have... not sure if fitz is as fast as holt, but a lot of what makes holt's speed so dangerous is that he can maintain it through the route stem & he runs very polished routes... areas WR prodigy fitz is improving in... & he is deceptively faster than many think... i'm pretty sure he ran a 4.4 at his pre-draft workout (plenty fast, and if so i think same as holt), and he is capable of getting behind secondaries...

 
Last edited by a moderator:
azngangster said:
He is a much better offensive coordinator than coach. I hope he doens't accept any headcoaching jobs, and stays offensive coordinator for the lions. Roy Williams and Kevin Jones could be a force for years.
:goodposting:
 
azngangster said:
He is a much better offensive coordinator than coach. I hope he doens't accept any headcoaching jobs, and stays offensive coordinator for the lions. Roy Williams and Kevin Jones could be a force for years.
:goodposting:
He might be, so might a lot of head coaches/head coach candidates. If you were to take all coaches and rank them in terms of how good of a head coach they are/could be, I think Martz is easily in the top 32. He'll be a head coach again in the NFL and soon.
 
This NFL.com story is just speculation by Schefter about an obvious choice of a known name guy that would be a good fit in Arizona if Green were to be replaced! As for now, Denny Green is still coaching the Cards and Mike Martz is still under contract as the Offensive Coordinator in Detroit.

Schefter is a good tipster but he's very opiniated and speculates quite a bit .. you have to learn to seperate the wheat from the chaff with alot of his stuff !

:bag:

 
All you dreamers about Martz going to Arizona - what on God's green earth makes you think for a second that the Bidwills would play Martz (or any HC) that kind of money?

They won't even fire Green because it would cost them two HC checks this year. :banned:

 
All you dreamers about Martz going to Arizona - what on God's green earth makes you think for a second that the Bidwills would play Martz (or any HC) that kind of money?
Uh, a couple of things:1) They opened up their checkbook and paid Denny Green a high sum to coach the Cardinals. So they've shown in recent years that they are willing to spend for a coach.2) Part of the penny pinching was due to the fact that the Cardinals had the lowest revenue stream in the league before the new stadium opened. They no longer have this problem with a shiny new stadium, with sellouts and the ability to collect on parking, concessions, etc.
They won't even fire Green because it would cost them two HC checks this year. :banned:
Not true. I'll just quote from this week's PFW:
Why didn’t Cardinals vice president/general counsel Michael Bidwill, the team’s primary executive, fire Green during the team’s bye week — a move more than a few members of the local media highly recommended? While there is a popular school of thought that the notoriously frugal Bidwill family wanted to avoid having to pay Green the reported $3.75 million he would collect if he got canned now, there are two other much bigger reasons, according to our sources.For one thing, we’re told the Cardinals are well-aware of the miserable track record of interim head coaches in the NFL, and with the likelihood that the team’s ugly situation could get even uglier with a temporary head coach in command, they wanted to avoid any scenario in which Green could actually end up being perceived as a scapegoat.Beyond that, there’s this reason, courtesy of a league source very familiar with Green: “One of the reasons they won’t fire Green now is because they have so many yes men who are loyal to Denny on the coaching staff, and if they turn things over to (someone like defensive coordinator Clancy) Pendergast, they will shut it down. It would not be possible to get enough coaches on that staff to listen to someone else.”
Whether Martz is a good choice is one topic, but the Cards certainlly are capable of making a strong move for him if they so desire.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
SammyJankis said:
azngangster said:
He is a much better offensive coordinator than coach. I hope he doens't accept any headcoaching jobs, and stays offensive coordinator for the lions. Roy Williams and Kevin Jones could be a force for years.
The "he's a better coordinator than a head coach" argument was once repeated many times over with regards to Bill Belicheck. Being a head coach is hard, and some guys don't get it right their first time. I think Martz would be quite successful with a second bite at the apple.
In five full seasons as the Rams head coach Martz went to the playoffs four times and the Super Bowl once. A lot of teams wish they had that good a head coach.
 
I'm a Leinart owner in a dynasty league, and I DONT want Martz as his HC. I'd rather have a healthy player for the entire year then a great player for 2 or 3 games until he gets IRd for the rest of the season. Look at the season Bulger is having now that Martz is gone (I also have Bulger in the same dynasty).Keep away Martz!
Kitna doesn't seem to be doing too badly, and he's not exactly the most elusive QB out there.
 
SammyJankis said:
azngangster said:
He is a much better offensive coordinator than coach. I hope he doens't accept any headcoaching jobs, and stays offensive coordinator for the lions. Roy Williams and Kevin Jones could be a force for years.
The "he's a better coordinator than a head coach" argument was once repeated many times over with regards to Bill Belicheck. Being a head coach is hard, and some guys don't get it right their first time. I think Martz would be quite successful with a second bite at the apple.
I think this is spot on. Some coaches struggle the first time- Shanahan and Belichick were both fired. They went on to become exceptional coaches. Earlier this season, Shanahan pointed out his mistake in starting Greise before the team believed in him. Both coaches were able to learn from their mistakes and get better. The question is: 1) Can Martz change and improve on his shortcomings and realize, among other things, how difficult it is to win when your team commits more turnovers to the other team? He used to seem more interested in coming up with an elegant game plan than the most effective game plan that his players could execute.If so, I think he can be a very effective head coach.
 
Unitl AZ develops an offensive line that can block, it won't matter who the coach is. They need personel in that area (both players and coaches) much moreso than they need Martz. It's not like Denny Green has been a wet blanket on the offenses he's run either - I don't see Martz being that big of an upgrade, if at all.

 
simey said:
wildbill said:
In five full seasons as the Rams head coach Martz went to the playoffs four times and the Super Bowl once. A lot of teams wish they had that good a head coach.
Didn't he inherit a great team from **** Vermeil?
Didn't he help **** Vermeil turn them into a great team?
 
Unitl AZ develops an offensive line that can block, it won't matter who the coach is. They need personel in that area (both players and coaches) much moreso than they need Martz. It's not like Denny Green has been a wet blanket on the offenses he's run either - I don't see Martz being that big of an upgrade, if at all.
Isn't this similar to what was said about Martz this year? The Lions had no o-line, so they wouldn't be able to do anything near to what he had done with the Rams?
 
simey said:
wildbill said:
In five full seasons as the Rams head coach Martz went to the playoffs four times and the Super Bowl once. A lot of teams wish they had that good a head coach.
Didn't he inherit a great team from **** Vermeil?
Didn't he help **** Vermeil turn them into a great team?
:goodposting:Lost among the "even I knew to run Marshall Faulk 13250315 times in that Super Bowl" and "he challenged a 2-yard spot 43 times last year" garbage is the fact that the Rams were still highly successful after Vermeil left the team -- more successful than the Vermeil-led Chiefs were in the same timespan.Everything that's said about Mike Martz right now was said about Bill Belichick for years -- it took him 4 years before he got his 2nd head coaching job and that was not looking promising either until Drew Bledsoe got hurt after signing his $100MM contract.Many fans out there think that coaches and players never change (e.g. Manning will never win the big one, Martz will never be a good head coach) which is why they're always wrong when things inevitably do (John Elway finally won the big one twice, Belichick because a HoF caliber coach).Martz has some clear issues, but he also has a great offensive mind and has had success in this league. From a business standpoint, his teams score points which is good for popularity, too. If you were the Cardinals' owner, would you really not at least consider him just because the talking heads on ESPN think he'll never learn from his past experiences?
 
Unitl AZ develops an offensive line that can block, it won't matter who the coach is. They need personel in that area (both players and coaches) much moreso than they need Martz. It's not like Denny Green has been a wet blanket on the offenses he's run either - I don't see Martz being that big of an upgrade, if at all.
Isn't this similar to what was said about Martz this year? The Lions had no o-line, so they wouldn't be able to do anything near to what he had done with the Rams?
Not that I recall. The problem with the Lions was obviously Mariucci - he completely misused the talent the Lions had (witness Kevin Jones), and he totally lost the team by midseason. You have to be a ####### moron to have Kevin Jones split carries and ride the pine so Artose Pinner and Bryson can get significant touches - an absolute ####### moron. They were a train wreck from top to bottom in every way last year. They corrected it not only by bringing in Martz to be offensive coordinator but also switching the whole coaching regime as well as upgrading at QB and cutting bait on Rodgers and M. Williams.If Martz can turn around an offensive line better than Denny then he'd be an upgrade. But considering what kind of pounding QBs have taken behind decent offensive lines (which it is unclear that he had an essential role in selecting and developing) when he's run the show, I don't know that you could make a strong case for it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
BrentBlack said:
Mike Martz could be is the leading candidate for every team that is looking for a Head Coach this offseason.
Fixed :banned:
azngangster said:
He is a much better offensive coordinator than coach. I hope he doens't accept any headcoaching jobs, and stays offensive coordinator for the lions. Roy Williams and Kevin Jones could be a force for years.
But he has the ego of a Brian Billick and is only comfortable on his throne. :toilet:
 
If Martz can turn around an offensive line better than Denny then he'd be an upgrade. But considering what kind of pounding QBs have taken behind decent offensive lines (which it is unclear that he had an essential role in selecting and developing) when he's run the show, I don't know that you could make a strong case for it.
I don't think that's entirely accurate. I mean, sure, he throws downfield with more multi-WR sets than other teams, so there's going to be a few more hits on the QB. But the Rams most definitely did not have decent OLs in recent years. They were hit pretty hard by injuries, age, and FA losses. That's why 2 drafts ago they drafted 3 OL in the first 4 rounds. Before that, they were pulling guys out of retirement and off the waiver wire and starting them. Add to this the fact that the defense was abysmal and forced them to play from behind all the time.
 
He is a much better offensive coordinator than coach. I hope he doens't accept any headcoaching jobs, and stays offensive coordinator for the lions. Roy Williams and Kevin Jones could be a force for years.
The "he's a better coordinator than a head coach" argument was once repeated many times over with regards to Bill Belicheck. Being a head coach is hard, and some guys don't get it right their first time. I think Martz would be quite successful with a second bite at the apple.
Based upon what? For every Bill Belichick you can name, I can name ten Rich Kotites. Focusing on Belichick, however, it's notable that he took five years in-between head coaching jobs to reassess what he had done and what he would do with his next opportunity. He didn't jump into the first head coaching job he could get after Cleveland.

 
In five full seasons as the Rams head coach Martz went to the playoffs four times and the Super Bowl once. A lot of teams wish they had that good a head coach.
Didn't he inherit a great team from **** Vermeil?
Didn't he help **** Vermeil turn them into a great team?
:goodposting:Lost among the "even I knew to run Marshall Faulk 13250315 times in that Super Bowl" and "he challenged a 2-yard spot 43 times last year" garbage is the fact that the Rams were still highly successful after Vermeil left the team -- more successful than the Vermeil-led Chiefs were in the same timespan.Everything that's said about Mike Martz right now was said about Bill Belichick for years -- it took him 4 years before he got his 2nd head coaching job and that was not looking promising either until Drew Bledsoe got hurt after signing his $100MM contract.Many fans out there think that coaches and players never change (e.g. Manning will never win the big one, Martz will never be a good head coach) which is why they're always wrong when things inevitably do (John Elway finally won the big one twice, Belichick because a HoF caliber coach).Martz has some clear issues, but he also has a great offensive mind and has had success in this league. From a business standpoint, his teams score points which is good for popularity, too. If you were the Cardinals' owner, would you really not at least consider him just because the talking heads on ESPN think he'll never learn from his past experiences?
"Many fans out there think that coaches and players never change" Most fans do not even understand football much less what it takes to coach football.
 
Does anybody know the record of Martz as a head coach?
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/MartMi0.htm+--------------+----------+

| Reg. Season | Playoffs |

+----------+--------------+----------+

| Year TM | W L T | W L |

+----------+--------------+----------+

| 2000 stl | 10 6 0 | 0 1 |

| 2001 stl | 14 2 0 | 2 1 |

| 2002 stl | 7 9 0 | 0 0 |

| 2003 stl | 12 4 0 | 0 1 |

| 2004 stl | 8 8 0 | 1 1 |

| 2005 stl | 2 3 0 | 0 0 |

+----------+--------------+----------+

| TOTALS | 53 32 0 | 3 4 |

+----------+--------------+----------+

 
How many other coaches have such a good record? And how many head coaches that aren't very good have led teams to 14 and 12 win seasons?

 
The best thing for Arizona to do for it's offense in the off-season is to get an O-line coach who knows what he's doing, and then get the guy some players to work with (case in point: Leonard Davis. He's paid like a top tier LT when he's really a mediocre G. You'd think the one benefit to being a cheap franchise would be not wildly overpaying for bad players at a position where teams like Denver, NE, Atlanta, etc. field awesome running games while spending relatively nothing).

They've got a mishmash of guys, some who are road-graders, some who are pass-blockers, all of whom can't play as a cohesive unit and couldn't possibly handle a Martz offense, with all the "min protection" packages the guy is so fond of (it worked in St. Louis, as a lot of people have already pointed out, because of Pace and Co.)

The weird thing is, the O-line was horrible last year too, but the problem with overhauling an O-line in the offseason is it doesn't generate the kind of buzz that can fill a new stadium like, say, spending on a premier back like James (even though he hasn't really been "special" since he blew out his knee, and for anyone to run effectively in Arizona right now they'd need to be "special").

With all that being said, I could definitely see them making another James-esque, "sizzle over steak" type of move in the off-season like hiring Martz; I'm just not the least bit excited about the likely non-effect it would have on my Cardinal fantasy players.

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top