Martz swoons over Davis' Talent (1 Viewer)

[Chunky Soup]

SANTA CLARA – When Vernon Davis watches film of Mike Martz's past offenses, he doesn't follow the tight end. He is told instead to watch receivers Isaac Bruce or Torry Holt streaking downfield.

And therein lies one of the biggest differences between Martz's St. Louis Rams offenses from early this decade and the one he is building in San Francisco. He'll still use four receivers to put pressure on defensive backs. Two of those receivers just might happen to be tight ends.

"I don't know if anyone in the league can run like he can at that position," Martz, the 49ers' first-year offensive coordinator, said of Davis. "He gets down the field so fast. I don't know who beats him in a footrace."

Martz said none of his offensive players worked harder this spring than Davis, who was on the field before practice started and hung around after it ended to hone his receiving skills.

Davis entered the NFL in 2006 very much the opposite of most young tight ends. He was a willing and able blocker who relished the opportunity to put an opposing linebacker on his back.

But sometimes that ability worked against him.

Davis caught a respectable 52 passes for 509 yards last season, but he disappeared from the passing game for long stretches because he was being used as a blocker.

"I would say I didn't have many opportunities to really showcase my talent," Davis said.

That shouldn't be an issue in Martz's offense. Davis said his biggest task this offseason has been polishing his pass routes. And he has used film of Bruce, Holt and other former Martz receivers as a model, signaling that the 49ers' tight end will run routes atypical for his position.

"Instead of breaking down and head-faking and doing all these things, we're going to use his speed," Martz said. "And I think he understands that really well at this point."

While Martz was familiar with Davis upon joining the 49ers, he said he has been pleasantly surprised by another 49ers tight end, Delanie Walker. A wide receiver in college, Walker always has shown quick hands and elusiveness after the catch in practice. But he has been lightly utilized in games.

Martz was so impressed with Walker during organized team activities (OTAs) that Martz has over the past two weeks installed new plays just for him.

"He has some real wow factor to him," Martz said. " … You talk about some jets and some ability to run and eat up the field. Holy cow. I didn't know anything about Delanie until I got here."

Having Davis and Walker in the game also will keep defenses guessing.

Davis in particular is one of the league's premier blocking tight ends, and that ability meshes well with what running back Frank Gore, the focal point of the offense, does best.

"He's such a violent, physical blocker," Martz said, noting that many modern tight ends are more finesse-oriented, content to simply keep defenders at bay. "Vernon will try to knock you out. He's such a pleasant blend of power and physical with speed.

"He's such an unusual player in that respect."

With that, Martz caught himself and said he realized everything out of his mouth had been a compliment. But in the afterglow of successful June practices, Martz said he can't help it.

"I can't hold down my enthusiasm," he said. "These guys are pretty special."

http://www.sacbee.com/100/story/1034766.html

 

[Sweet Love]

Nice to hear that about VD. I am in a league that has five flex starting positions and with WR/RBs at .5 PPR and TEs at 1 PPR, I am going to try to grab two TEs that I can start each week. I hoped VD would stay at an ADP of 9-10, but I doubt that will happen come August.

 

[T Bell]

Well, if you were looking for reassurance that Martz won't keep the TE in to block, there you go . . . though I'm not sure why you were ever in doubt.

 

[ceo3west]

I don't care how much talent he has - Alex Smith still has to get him the ball, which is why VD won't be on my roster this year. As for Martz, he really hasn't done anything since the days of the Rams last superbowl trip. I'm no longer drinking the Martz Koolaid.

 

[5Rings]

Well, if you were looking for reassurance that Martz won't keep the TE in to block, there you go . . . though I'm not sure why you were ever in doubt.

I wish you wouldn't have started a new topic for this article. Don't you know Martz doesn't use TEs? We need to keep the lemmings thinking like this.I was kinda hoping we could keep it buried here



VD = value

 

[TheFanatic]

He also said he learned from the past and would run the ball more in Detroit. Look how that turned out.

Martz is very much the guy that wants to prove to everyone that he is right and they are wrong. Don't be surprised if he does it here again....

 

[David Yudkin]

I don't care how much talent he has - Alex Smith still has to get him the ball, which is why VD won't be on my roster this year. As for Martz, he really hasn't done anything since the days of the Rams last superbowl trip. I'm no longer drinking the Martz Koolaid.

If you consider averaging 4360 gross passing yards and 22 passing TD per year since 2002 nothing, then, sure, I agree with you.Oh . . . and I forgot to mention that the Colts over that same 6 year stretch averaged 4330 gross passing yards per year.

 

[moderated]

If Martz didn't use studs like Cam Cleeland and a 38 yr old Marcus Pollard he sure isn't going to use an over-rated Vernon Davis.

Vernon - 15 rec/130 yards/1 TD.

BIGGEST BUST IN THE HISTORY OF FOOTBALL. He shouldn't even be drafted in leagues.

 

[Knight who says Ni]

I wonder if Delanie Walker might be worth a late-round flyer - the guy never was on my radar, but he might be worth a roster spot in case Davis gets injured

 

[eric rymer]

man I really hope something good comes of this.

 

[massraider]

God, this article is too late, Davis just went in my auction league for $38--I was hoping for a higher price.

My two cents:

If Martz' offense and that line allow any QB currently on the roster to make it out of September (I have my doubts), I think Davis will be option #4. And if he keeps up the mental errors, he'll drop behind their 3rd WR.

 

[AnonymousBob]

man I really hope something good comes of this.

Nothing bad can possibly come from VD.

 

[TheFanatic]

God, this article is too late, Davis just went in my auction league for $38--I was hoping for a higher price.My two cents:If Martz' offense and that line allow any QB currently on the roster to make it out of September (I have my doubts), I think Davis will be option #4. And if he keeps up the mental errors, he'll drop behind their 3rd WR.

This is a good point. Martz is not known for his passer protection. Now let's add VD to the passing scheme instead of leaving him in there to block and you get QB on the IR before you know it. Add a bad O line in there and you better hope VD stays in close to the line for those dump passes as the QB is being hauled down by 3 guys chasing him down behind the LOS...

 

[5-ish Finkle]

I'm totally disappointed that it took 12 posts before someone made an STD reference in this thread.

 

[southeastjerome]

When is the last time a Martz led offense had a TE put up big numbers? I don't think its ever happened. Granted he probably has never had a better athlete to work with at TE. There are concerns at the QB position and Bryant Johnson, Ike Bruce and Arnaz Battle all competing with VD for catches. At this point, I expect him to justify his ADP.

 

[cutler6]

Talent only goes so far in the NFL...

One of the most interesting things to watch in San Francisco will be how well Niners TE Vernon Davis is able to digest new coordinator Mike Martz’s offense. In regard to Davis’ performance last season, one of his teammates told a team source that he had never seen an NFL starter make so many mistakes.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/The+W...spers032908.htm

 

[Man who'd fire the Yorks]

The 49ers have allowed 138 sacks over the last 3 years. Doesn't matter who's under center if the O-line doesn't keep them off their back the ground will get all the receptions.

 

[stevegamer]

Talent only goes so far in the NFL...

One of the most interesting things to watch in San Francisco will be how well Niners TE Vernon Davis is able to digest new coordinator Mike Martz’s offense. In regard to Davis’ performance last season, one of his teammates told a team source that he had never seen an NFL starter make so many mistakes.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/The+W...spers032908.htm

Did this person not see Alex Smith?

 

[T Bell]

The fundamental cause for concern - even more so than Alex Smith under center - is that the one person who Mike Martz swoons the most for is and always has been Mike Martz. He's gotten this far without using the TE, and I won't believe that he can adapt his offense to accommodate a TE until I see him do it, which would be the first time that he's adapted anything he's done.

 

[Ned]

The fundamental cause for concern - even more so than Alex Smith under center - is that the one person who Mike Martz swoons the most for is and always has been Mike Martz. He's gotten this far without using the TE, and I won't believe that he can adapt his offense to accommodate a TE until I see him do it, which would be the first time that he's adapted anything he's done.

i understand the hate for martz (and i'm far from an apologist of his), but come on. unable to adapt to using a te in passing situations? seems like a pretty absurd comment to make unless you've had personal experience working for the guy.if he honestly sees mismatches that vd can create, i don't see any reason why he won't try to exploit that. will vd take advantage?

 

[eric rymer]

man I really hope something good comes of this.

Nothing bad can possibly come from VD.

 

[tribecalledjeff]

Talent only goes so far in the NFL...

One of the most interesting things to watch in San Francisco will be how well Niners TE Vernon Davis is able to digest new coordinator Mike Martz’s offense. In regard to Davis’ performance last season, one of his teammates told a team source that he had never seen an NFL starter make so many mistakes.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/The+W...spers032908.htm

I remember reading this and mentally crossing VD off my list. Martz's offense is very complex. Between Davis not being the sharpest tool in the shed while trying to learn a difficult offense and him being a TE, which Martz has not shown that he will use frequently, I'm not exactly sky high on Vernon.

 

[cheatsheetwarroom]

I don't care how much talent he has - Alex Smith still has to get him the ball, which is why VD won't be on my roster this year. As for Martz, he really hasn't done anything since the days of the Rams last superbowl trip. I'm no longer drinking the Martz Koolaid.

Agreed. I can't believe that Martz would want to enter the season with Smith under center. Personally, I'd rather bring in a broken-down vet than watch Smith run the team into the ground.

 

[ceo3west]

I don't care how much talent he has - Alex Smith still has to get him the ball, which is why VD won't be on my roster this year. As for Martz, he really hasn't done anything since the days of the Rams last superbowl trip. I'm no longer drinking the Martz Koolaid.

If you consider averaging 4360 gross passing yards and 22 passing TD per year since 2002 nothing, then, sure, I agree with you.Oh . . . and I forgot to mention that the Colts over that same 6 year stretch averaged 4330 gross passing yards per year.

Ask the Jon Kitna owners last year how decieving numbers can be. And Roy Williams owners.All I'm saying is that people who are banking on guys like Davis & Gore now that Martz is there had better be careful. Alex Smith is no Kurt Warner or Marc Bulger. He's not even Jon Kitna.

 

[massraider]

I don't care how much talent he has - Alex Smith still has to get him the ball, which is why VD won't be on my roster this year. As for Martz, he really hasn't done anything since the days of the Rams last superbowl trip. I'm no longer drinking the Martz Koolaid.

If you consider averaging 4360 gross passing yards and 22 passing TD per year since 2002 nothing, then, sure, I agree with you.Oh . . . and I forgot to mention that the Colts over that same 6 year stretch averaged 4330 gross passing yards per year.

Ask the Jon Kitna owners last year how decieving numbers can be. And Roy Williams owners.All I'm saying is that people who are banking on guys like Davis & Gore now that Martz is there had better be careful. Alex Smith is no Kurt Warner or Marc Bulger. He's not even Jon Kitna.

Fantasy production isn't Martz' priority. his offenses move the ball. That's the point.

 

[ceo3west]

I don't care how much talent he has - Alex Smith still has to get him the ball, which is why VD won't be on my roster this year. As for Martz, he really hasn't done anything since the days of the Rams last superbowl trip. I'm no longer drinking the Martz Koolaid.

If you consider averaging 4360 gross passing yards and 22 passing TD per year since 2002 nothing, then, sure, I agree with you.Oh . . . and I forgot to mention that the Colts over that same 6 year stretch averaged 4330 gross passing yards per year.

Ask the Jon Kitna owners last year how decieving numbers can be. And Roy Williams owners.All I'm saying is that people who are banking on guys like Davis & Gore now that Martz is there had better be careful. Alex Smith is no Kurt Warner or Marc Bulger. He's not even Jon Kitna.

Fantasy production isn't Martz' priority. his offenses move the ball. That's the point.

What do I care about Martz's priorities? I care about fantasy points, and Martz isn't producing top fantasy players. That's my point.

 

[David Yudkin]

I don't care how much talent he has - Alex Smith still has to get him the ball, which is why VD won't be on my roster this year. As for Martz, he really hasn't done anything since the days of the Rams last superbowl trip. I'm no longer drinking the Martz Koolaid.

If you consider averaging 4360 gross passing yards and 22 passing TD per year since 2002 nothing, then, sure, I agree with you.Oh . . . and I forgot to mention that the Colts over that same 6 year stretch averaged 4330 gross passing yards per year.

Ask the Jon Kitna owners last year how decieving numbers can be. And Roy Williams owners.All I'm saying is that people who are banking on guys like Davis & Gore now that Martz is there had better be careful. Alex Smith is no Kurt Warner or Marc Bulger. He's not even Jon Kitna.

Fantasy production isn't Martz' priority. his offenses move the ball. That's the point.

What do I care about Martz's priorities? I care about fantasy points, and Martz isn't producing top fantasy players. That's my point.

Martz gave savy owners gifts the past two years. Kitna (who I pimped FOR MONTHS two years ago) was had for pennies on the dollar and ranked 6th. Michael Furrey ranked 19th two years ago and McDonald 23rd and both were available for free on the waiver wire.Even Kevin Jones was decent when he was in the lineup. He averaged 80 yards and scored 2 out of 3 three games he played and almost 4 receptions a game. That's including 5 games where he had 5 carries or less.

If you look at the teams that Martz has coached, they've averaged well over 4000 yards passing:

As a Head Coach or Offensive Coordinator:

07 DET 4216 passing yds

06 DET 4208

05 STL 4351

04 STL 4615

03 STL 4287

02 STL 4480

01 STL 4903

00 STL 5492

99 STL 4580

As an Assistant Coach:

98 WAS 3724

97 WAS 3581

96 STL 3144

95 STL 4113

94 LAR 3597

93 LAR 3021

92 LAR 3422

If you look at the 49ers, here's the current ADPs for their main players:

Frank Gore 7

Vernon Davis 92

Bryant Johnson 127

Isaac Bruce 133

Alex Smith 201

Arnaz Battle 209

Basically, no one believes the 49ers players will do anything except for Gore. By extension, people do not believe Martz and his system will do much in SF. I think that's missing the boat again, and people should be looking to snag some of these guys on the cheap. Afterall, by the time you draft most of them they are fantasy bench players anyway, so they won't cost much to acquire them.

 

[moderated]

Basically, no one believes the 49ers players will do anything except for Gore. By extension, people do not believe Martz and his sytem will do much in SF. I think that's missing the boat again, and people should be looking to snag some of these guys on the cheap. Afterall, by the time you draft most of them they are fantasy bench players anyway, so they won't cost much to acquire them.

Martz offenses put up big numbers. Someone has to be the beneficiary of those numbers, and it won't all be Gore.

 

[sfl49er]

Basically, no one believes the 49ers players will do anything except for Gore. By extension, people do not believe Martz and his sytem will do much in SF. I think that's missing the boat again, and people should be looking to snag some of these guys on the cheap. Afterall, by the time you draft most of them they are fantasy bench players anyway, so they won't cost much to acquire them.

Martz offenses put up big numbers. Someone has to be the beneficiary of those numbers, and it won't all be Gore.

You're right. So why did you say earlier that Davis will get only 15 catches for 130. You must have been being sarcastic. Davis is gonna put up some big numbers this year, you can count on it. A lot just think AS is gonna fail, but thats not true either. All the Davis haters will be hating him more after this season, because of how he proves them wrong. Thats putting it nice.File this away till Sept.: 15/130/01 by the beginning of the eighth quarter.

 

[moderated]

Basically, no one believes the 49ers players will do anything except for Gore. By extension, people do not believe Martz and his sytem will do much in SF. I think that's missing the boat again, and people should be looking to snag some of these guys on the cheap. Afterall, by the time you draft most of them they are fantasy bench players anyway, so they won't cost much to acquire them.

Martz offenses put up big numbers. Someone has to be the beneficiary of those numbers, and it won't all be Gore.

You're right. So why did you say earlier that Davis will get only 15 catches for 130. You must have been being sarcastic. Davis is gonna put up some big numbers this year, you can count on it. A lot just think AS is gonna fail, but thats not true either. All the Davis haters will be hating him more after this season, because of how he proves them wrong. Thats putting it nice.File this away till Sept.: 15/130/01 by the beginning of the eighth quarter.

I was just beating those into the thread who rationalize that because Martz hasn't used some of the most horrendous TE's in the NFL that he won't use Davis.Vernon is one of the most under-rated fantasy TE's this year. Martz throws the ball, Vernon is a dangerous receiving weapon, Martz isn't going to ignore that.The argument that he ignores certain positions is funny as well, because he didn't use a marginal RB like Kevin Jones doesn't mean he doesn't utilize the RB position, Marshall Faulk got tons of touches in the Martz offense.

 

[Jon_Moore]

I can't wait for the coming season to pass and Davis to have a huge year

"But, but, Martz must have changed his system, he never utilizes the tight end"

Get real folks

 

[Boone22]

Not so fast VD...

49ers | Team installs new plays for D. Walker

Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:24:37 -0700

Matthew Barrows, of The Sacramento Bee, reports the San Francisco 49ers have installed new plays just for TE Delanie Walker. "He has some real wow factor to him," Offensive coordinator Mike Martz said. "You talk about some jets and some ability to run and eat up the field. Holy cow. I didn't know anything about Delanie until I got here."

 

[Chunky Soup]

Not so fast VD...

49ers | Team installs new plays for D. Walker

Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:24:37 -0700

Matthew Barrows, of The Sacramento Bee, reports the San Francisco 49ers have installed new plays just for TE Delanie Walker. "He has some real wow factor to him," Offensive coordinator Mike Martz said. "You talk about some jets and some ability to run and eat up the field. Holy cow. I didn't know anything about Delanie until I got here."

FWIW, this was already in the article posted in this thread.

While Martz was familiar with Davis upon joining the 49ers, he said he has been pleasantly surprised by another 49ers tight end, Delanie Walker. A wide receiver in college, Walker always has shown quick hands and elusiveness after the catch in practice. But he has been lightly utilized in games.

Martz was so impressed with Walker during organized team activities (OTAs) that Martz has over the past two weeks installed new plays just for him.

"He has some real wow factor to him," Martz said. " … You talk about some jets and some ability to run and eat up the field. Holy cow. I didn't know anything about Delanie until I got here."

Having Davis and Walker in the game also will keep defenses guessing.

http://www.sacbee.com/100/story/1034766.html

Maybe more options for SF but Walker is nowhere near the beast VD is.

 

[Tanner9919]

Well, if you were looking for reassurance that Martz won't keep the TE in to block, there you go . . . though I'm not sure why you were ever in doubt.

I wish you wouldn't have started a new topic for this article. Don't you know Martz doesn't use TEs? We need to keep the lemmings thinking like this.I was kinda hoping we could keep it buried here



VD = value

VD = trade value for FF gms with blinders on, who think he's going to become the next Antonio Gates/Witten/Winslow II

lets see VD stay healthy for a full season, first, then , lets see if Martz actually does change his philosophy.

`Tigers can't lose their stripes` , just like Martz won't change his ways

 

[Kirby]

I've always had a man crush on Walker.

 

[T Bell]

Basically, no one believes the 49ers players will do anything except for Gore. By extension, people do not believe Martz and his sytem will do much in SF. I think that's missing the boat again, and people should be looking to snag some of these guys on the cheap. Afterall, by the time you draft most of them they are fantasy bench players anyway, so they won't cost much to acquire them.

Martz offenses put up big numbers. Someone has to be the beneficiary of those numbers, and it won't all be Gore.

No, it's not "good posting" because the statement "no one believes the 49ers players will do anything except for Gore" is a straw man. I don't think Martz will adapt to use Davis (and for that matter would Davis rise to the occasion anyway?). That's a far cry from saying that "no one will do anything except Gore". IMHO because of Martz's arrival, the SF passing game will be a viable fantasy option for the first time since the days of Jeff Garcia and TO. This is not to be confused necessarily with a statement about NFL success, which I have my doubts about, there will be plenty of fantasy points to be had in SF outside of Gore.

 

[TheFanatic]

Basically, no one believes the 49ers players will do anything except for Gore. By extension, people do not believe Martz and his sytem will do much in SF. I think that's missing the boat again, and people should be looking to snag some of these guys on the cheap. Afterall, by the time you draft most of them they are fantasy bench players anyway, so they won't cost much to acquire them.

Martz offenses put up big numbers. Someone has to be the beneficiary of those numbers, and it won't all be Gore.

No, it's not "good posting" because the statement "no one believes the 49ers players will do anything except for Gore" is a straw man. I don't think Martz will adapt to use Davis (and for that matter would Davis rise to the occasion anyway?). That's a far cry from saying that "no one will do anything except Gore". IMHO because of Martz's arrival, the SF passing game will be a viable fantasy option for the first time since the days of Jeff Garcia and TO. This is not to be confused necessarily with a statement about NFL success, which I have my doubts about, there will be plenty of fantasy points to be had in SF outside of Gore.

I agree that Gore is not the only guy that will perform. So much so that I have about every SF WR on my roster in a deep Dynasty League (HAL I). One of those guys is going to emerge. I just don't think it will be VD. Martz likes 3 WR sets. Has his whole career. If they run 3 wide out sets and VD runs out into a pattern then the QB is going to be pulling sod out of his face mask.

 

[David Yudkin]

Basically, no one believes the 49ers players will do anything except for Gore. By extension, people do not believe Martz and his sytem will do much in SF. I think that's missing the boat again, and people should be looking to snag some of these guys on the cheap. Afterall, by the time you draft most of them they are fantasy bench players anyway, so they won't cost much to acquire them.

Martz offenses put up big numbers. Someone has to be the beneficiary of those numbers, and it won't all be Gore.

No, it's not "good posting" because the statement "no one believes the 49ers players will do anything except for Gore" is a straw man. I don't think Martz will adapt to use Davis (and for that matter would Davis rise to the occasion anyway?). That's a far cry from saying that "no one will do anything except Gore". IMHO because of Martz's arrival, the SF passing game will be a viable fantasy option for the first time since the days of Jeff Garcia and TO. This is not to be confused necessarily with a statement about NFL success, which I have my doubts about, there will be plenty of fantasy points to be had in SF outside of Gore.

My point, which somehow got misconstrued, is that if you add up the projections and consider ADP of the SF players, the sum of the indivual parts is WAY below what the Niners offense should produce with Martz.IMO, that's an ideal fantasy scenario because you can get almost all these guys pretty cheaply and expect a certain level of production.Compare that to, say, the Patriots players who at this point are getting taken very early based on what already was an incredibly high projection based on last year's numbers. Think about it . . . the Pats have two players getting fradted in the first round . . . and neither one is a RB.As for Davis playing in a Martz system, who's to say that Martz keeps his regular play book and simple slots Davis in some of the time as a WR in a TE body? I certainly have no insight into what they will or won't do, but I will say that talent wise Martz has not had a TE in the class of Davis before.I suppose the question I would pose to those suggesting that Davis has to have a poor year because Martz ingnores the TE, would Antonio Gated never see the ball if he were on the 49ers?Overall, I would think that Davis will not put up great numbers (say Top 5) but almost any full time TE in a pass happy offense could approach Top 10 numbers. Every year there are a bunch of players in the Bottom Top 10-20 range that are pretty clumped together. I don't see why Davis couldn't at least couldn't be in the Top 10 if healthy.

 

[T Bell]

Basically, no one believes the 49ers players will do anything except for Gore. By extension, people do not believe Martz and his sytem will do much in SF. I think that's missing the boat again, and people should be looking to snag some of these guys on the cheap. Afterall, by the time you draft most of them they are fantasy bench players anyway, so they won't cost much to acquire them.

Martz offenses put up big numbers. Someone has to be the beneficiary of those numbers, and it won't all be Gore.

No, it's not "good posting" because the statement "no one believes the 49ers players will do anything except for Gore" is a straw man. I don't think Martz will adapt to use Davis (and for that matter would Davis rise to the occasion anyway?). That's a far cry from saying that "no one will do anything except Gore". IMHO because of Martz's arrival, the SF passing game will be a viable fantasy option for the first time since the days of Jeff Garcia and TO. This is not to be confused necessarily with a statement about NFL success, which I have my doubts about, there will be plenty of fantasy points to be had in SF outside of Gore.

My point, which somehow got misconstrued, is that if you add up the projections and consider ADP of the SF players, the sum of the indivual parts is WAY below what the Niners offense should produce with Martz.IMO, that's an ideal fantasy scenario because you can get almost all these guys pretty cheaply and expect a certain level of production.Compare that to, say, the Patriots players who at this point are getting taken very early based on what already was an incredibly high projection based on last year's numbers. Think about it . . . the Pats have two players getting fradted in the first round . . . and neither one is a RB.As for Davis playing in a Martz system, who's to say that Martz keeps his regular play book and simple slots Davis in some of the time as a WR in a TE body? I certainly have no insight into what they will or won't do, but I will say that talent wise Martz has not had a TE in the class of Davis before.I suppose the question I would pose to those suggesting that Davis has to have a poor year because Martz ingnores the TE, would Antonio Gated never see the ball if he were on the 49ers?Overall, I would think that Davis will not put up great numbers (say Top 5) but almost any full time TE in a pass happy offense could approach Top 10 numbers. Every year there are a bunch of players in the Bottom Top 10-20 range that are pretty clumped together. I don't see why Davis couldn't at least couldn't be in the Top 10 if healthy.

Fair enough, though I disagree about Davis for the reasons stated. I agree that there's value in the SF WR corps causing many of them to get drafted lower than they ultimately should, but it's to be expected because of uncertainty as to roles, Martz's new arrival there, new faces on the team, and Alex Smith. As Fanatic said, you practically need to have four guys before you can be assured that you'll have a productive SF WR in 2008, and most teams just don't have the roster space for that even were they inclined to make the effort and pay the price to acquire these guys.

 

[David Yudkin]

Basically, no one believes the 49ers players will do anything except for Gore. By extension, people do not believe Martz and his sytem will do much in SF. I think that's missing the boat again, and people should be looking to snag some of these guys on the cheap. Afterall, by the time you draft most of them they are fantasy bench players anyway, so they won't cost much to acquire them.

:( Martz offenses put up big numbers. Someone has to be the beneficiary of those numbers, and it won't all be Gore.

No, it's not "good posting" because the statement "no one believes the 49ers players will do anything except for Gore" is a straw man. I don't think Martz will adapt to use Davis (and for that matter would Davis rise to the occasion anyway?). That's a far cry from saying that "no one will do anything except Gore". IMHO because of Martz's arrival, the SF passing game will be a viable fantasy option for the first time since the days of Jeff Garcia and TO. This is not to be confused necessarily with a statement about NFL success, which I have my doubts about, there will be plenty of fantasy points to be had in SF outside of Gore.

My point, which somehow got misconstrued, is that if you add up the projections and consider ADP of the SF players, the sum of the indivual parts is WAY below what the Niners offense should produce with Martz.IMO, that's an ideal fantasy scenario because you can get almost all these guys pretty cheaply and expect a certain level of production.Compare that to, say, the Patriots players who at this point are getting taken very early based on what already was an incredibly high projection based on last year's numbers. Think about it . . . the Pats have two players getting fradted in the first round . . . and neither one is a RB.As for Davis playing in a Martz system, who's to say that Martz keeps his regular play book and simple slots Davis in some of the time as a WR in a TE body? I certainly have no insight into what they will or won't do, but I will say that talent wise Martz has not had a TE in the class of Davis before.I suppose the question I would pose to those suggesting that Davis has to have a poor year because Martz ingnores the TE, would Antonio Gated never see the ball if he were on the 49ers?Overall, I would think that Davis will not put up great numbers (say Top 5) but almost any full time TE in a pass happy offense could approach Top 10 numbers. Every year there are a bunch of players in the Bottom Top 10-20 range that are pretty clumped together. I don't see why Davis couldn't at least couldn't be in the Top 10 if healthy.

Fair enough, though I disagree about Davis for the reasons stated. I agree that there's value in the SF WR corps causing many of them to get drafted lower than they ultimately should, but it's to be expected because of uncertainty as to roles, Martz's new arrival there, new faces on the team, and Alex Smith. As Fanatic said, you practically need to have four guys before you can be assured that you'll have a productive SF WR in 2008, and most teams just don't have the roster space for that even were they inclined to make the effort and pay the price to acquire these guys.

As far as the WRs go, by the time they will get drafted in fantasy drafts almost every team will have their core players already rostered, so at that point pretty much everyone is looking for a flyer/prayer. We pretty much know that Martz is going to throw the ball a ton, so the risk is picking the right guy. Most of the other WRs going at that point in the draft have several factors working against them . . . will the team throw much at all (MIN, TEN, CHI, etc.) . . . will the player even see the field that much (JAC, CAR, SEA) . . . is the QB on the team compentent to put up decent passing totals (KC, MIN, MIA) . . . how likely will PLAYER X be to breakout, etc. Bottom line, IMO knowing that SF should pass way more should be one less thing to worry about when fishing later in the draft. SOMEONE has to catch all those passes.

 

[morris4903]

Little off topic, but reading these boards I get the since that most everyone has written off Alex Smith as a total bust pick. I think its too early for that. Everyone seems to forget that two years ago, his first full year as starter, he did a pretty respectable job and showed flashes of brilliance. I just don't think the guy as had a fair opportunity so far in SF, and this is coming from an SF fan.

 

[The Moz]

I juist cannot take a guy who has VD as a nickname! Damn gotta be worst name in football!

 

[mlball77]

Little off topic, but reading these boards I get the since that most everyone has written off Alex Smith as a total bust pick. I think its too early for that. Everyone seems to forget that two years ago, his first full year as starter, he did a pretty respectable job and showed flashes of brilliance. I just don't think the guy as had a fair opportunity so far in SF, and this is coming from an SF fan.

I actually agree with you on Smith. Although he was a train wreck last year, I haven’t fully written him off yet. If I recall correctly, and maybe I’m confused here, he played through a shoulder injury for a few games last year and doing such may have really hurt his play.Onto Davis… I have never been a big fan of the guy and Martz’s past use of TEs has me really hesitant to get too high on Davis this year. However, it sounds like Martz has big plans for Davis and part of me thinks the mad genius will be able to use Davis in his attack. I guess I’m on the fence. There has been some great discussion in this thread. Ultimately for me, I’ll have to look at where he is going in drafts and determine if he could be worth it. Davis has a very high ceiling, but that may come at too large of a cost for my likings on draft day.

 

[AnonymousBob]

Alex Smith wasn't good prior to last year's shoulder injury but he wasn't absolutely horrific. After he hurt his shoulder he really blew chunks. He even argued with Nolan in the media whether he was actually hurt or not. Nolan kept saying it was nothing but a couple weeks later they shut him down for the season. I'm not saying I'm a big Smith believer but there were reasons for last year's pefrormance.

Martz has yet to utilize a TE but that's an unfair statement. Prior to last year the Patriots never used a #1 option in their passing game. Then they landed a legitimate #1 option in their passing game. Suddenly, they used him.

I think Martz hasn't used TE's because he hasn't had TE's to use. Pollard was the best he's had and Marcus was fairly old before going to Detroit.

If you believe Davis is an exceptional talent then Martz will incorporate him into the offense.

If you believe Davis is a mediocre talent then Martz probably won't use him much.

That's really what it comes down to.

 

[jurb26]

If you believe Davis is an exceptional talent then Martz will incorporate him into the offense.If you believe Davis is a mediocre talent then Martz probably won't use him much. That's really what it comes down to.

I pretty much agree with this, but then again I don't. I don't think Davis is an exceptional talent. I do believe he is the best pass catching talent the team has though. Unfortunately for the 9ers that really isn't a good thing.

 

[AnonymousBob]

If you believe Davis is an exceptional talent then Martz will incorporate him into the offense.If you believe Davis is a mediocre talent then Martz probably won't use him much. That's really what it comes down to.

I pretty much agree with this, but then again I don't. I don't think Davis is an exceptional talent. I do believe he is the best pass catching talent the team has though. Unfortunately for the 9ers that really isn't a good thing.

Running for office? I happen to believe Davis will have a career year (500+ yardage and 4 td's isn't a high bar) and like Yudkin, I believe Davis will easily finish in the top ten. He may be the best option for San Francisco but in the games I've watched he doesn't appear to be anything special when it comes to catching the football. Maybe I'm biased as I'm a Niners fan who never wanted them to draft this guy.

 

[Tecmo]

You guys are high on crack if you think VD is going to have a horrible season because Martz has never utilized a TE. VD can run, he's not going to be asked to block that much with Martz. From a speed aspect, Davis is their best weapon on offense (Bruce, Bryant Johnson, Battle.. no way). You can bet your lucky penny that Martz will try to spring him free on a regular basis... just wasn't the case with the old conservative 49ers. I think the biggest beneficiary of Martz will be Vernon Davis, he will be a stud this year

 

[massraider]

You guys are high on crack if you think VD is going to have a horrible season because Martz has never utilized a TE. VD can run, he's not going to be asked to block that much with Martz. From a speed aspect, Davis is their best weapon on offense (Bruce, Bryant Johnson, Battle.. no way). You can bet your lucky penny that Martz will try to spring him free on a regular basis... just wasn't the case with the old conservative 49ers. I think the biggest beneficiary of Martz will be Vernon Davis, he will be a stud this year

I think he's dumb and has thus far shown he has hands like feet. I'd look to the WR corps on this team, Martz made performers out of Mike Furrey and Shaun McDonald.

 

[Chunky Soup]

You guys are high on crack if you think VD is going to have a horrible season because Martz has never utilized a TE. VD can run, he's not going to be asked to block that much with Martz. From a speed aspect, Davis is their best weapon on offense (Bruce, Bryant Johnson, Battle.. no way). You can bet your lucky penny that Martz will try to spring him free on a regular basis... just wasn't the case with the old conservative 49ers. I think the biggest beneficiary of Martz will be Vernon Davis, he will be a stud this year

I think he's dumb and has thus far shown he has hands like feet.

Links to these?

 

[southeastjerome]

You guys are high on crack if you think VD is going to have a horrible season because Martz has never utilized a TE. VD can run, he's not going to be asked to block that much with Martz. From a speed aspect, Davis is their best weapon on offense (Bruce, Bryant Johnson, Battle.. no way). You can bet your lucky penny that Martz will try to spring him free on a regular basis... just wasn't the case with the old conservative 49ers. I think the biggest beneficiary of Martz will be Vernon Davis, he will be a stud this year

I think he's dumb and has thus far shown he has hands like feet. I'd look to the WR corps on this team, Martz made performers out of Mike Furrey and Shaun McDonald.

Arnaz Battle anyone?