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Massive testing (1 Viewer)

timschochet

timschochet

Footballguy
More and more this is becoming the primary issue, really the only issue of this crisis because it both overrides and answers everything else. We need to have massive testing, really of every American, so that we can trace and isolate those with the disease. Then we can reopen for business. Until this is done, we can’t. Full stop.

We needn’t close our borders but we have to test everybody who comes here. Eventually we will have a vaccine but until we do, this is the only way. And it has to be a top down effort- meaning from the federal government. We have to use the DPA to manufacture hundreds of millions of these tests. 

President Trump says that the decision whether or not to reopen the country will be the most difficult of his life. Actually it’s not difficult at all. It can’t be done until this testing is in place. 

 
We have to get an initial test on over 300 million people and then multiple followup tests whenever someone develops symptoms or is exposed to a carrier. Not perfect but seems like it would be a great ROI, until a vaccine is developed and more is known about immunity. 

To take an in-person class at most universities, proof of immunizations is required. At many jobs, an annual TB skin test is required. Perhaps periodic CV tests will be the norm everywhere. 

 
His response so far has been that it's not going to happen. So he better get with the program quickly if he really wants to "open back up". So baffling how he can't put simple facts together to form a plan.

 
KiddLattimer said:
Unfortunately immunity may not be as easy as getting it and being immune ... people are testing positive for it a second time in Korea - https://nypost.com/2020/04/10/recovered-coronavirus-patients-in-south-korea-testing-positive-again/
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As I have said with others...can we find a better source than the Post...its a sensationalist tabloid.  They are not trustworthy at all.

https://www.sciencealert.com/who-investigates-reports-of-recovered-covid-19-patients-testing-positive-again

That article suggests they are trying to test them twice before being discharged and the second test is coming back positive after the first was negative.  Its also part of the issue being discussed with antibody testing being badly needed.

And it is definitely something to keep watching out for...there seems to be so much still unknown about this at this point.

 
timschochet said:
More and more this is becoming the primary issue, really the only issue of this crisis because it both overrides and answers everything else. We need to have massive testing, really of every American, so that we can trace and isolate those with the disease. Then we can reopen for business. Until this is done, we can’t. Full stop.

We needn’t close our borders but we have to test everybody who comes here. Eventually we will have a vaccine but until we do, this is the only way. And it has to be a top down effort- meaning from the federal government. We have to use the DPA to manufacture hundreds of millions of these tests. 

President Trump says that the decision whether or not to reopen the country will be the most difficult of his life. Actually it’s not difficult at all. It can’t be done until this testing is in place. 
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I'd like to add the term "full stop" to the list of overused phrases.

Thanks in advance

 
Given the situation we’re in, seems kind of silly to complain about the term “full stop.” If you guys disagree with some point in the op please state what it is. 

 
Start with rapid testing of young children, 11 years of age and under, so they can go to school and their parents can go back to work, ala Denmark. This would include daycare and preschools. Test the teachers and other staff.  If someone subsequently tests positive, do contact tracing and re-testing.  Test those who are at home with the kids, parents, siblings, grandparents. A new job will emerge for contact tracing and testing. Next, expand essential worker categories. 

 
ShamrockPride said:
Can we full stop the full stops (aside from Joe)? Christ. I feel like I read an opinion here with a full stop in it every other post these days.
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Lol...I was thinking the same.  Here is Tim offering an opinion on a very complex issue and he just tries to 'full stop' any alternatives.  

 
timschochet said:
Given the situation we’re in, seems kind of silly to complain about the term “full stop.” If you guys disagree with some point in the op please state what it is. 
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You decided for everyone that there was no opening for debate with your use of that term, again.  You're not making sense.

Oh wait...

 
Just wait until that partnership with Target, Walgreens, and CVS produce all of those drive through testing sites Trump said was going to happen when he gave his Presidential national emergency speech that definitely wasn’t a reaction to a plummeting stock market,  plus the Google website, plus the home testing kits promised by one of the CEO’s he put in front of the microphone. Any day now.

 
sho nuff said:
As I have said with others...can we find a better source than the Post...its a sensationalist tabloid.  They are not trustworthy at all.

https://www.sciencealert.com/who-investigates-reports-of-recovered-covid-19-patients-testing-positive-again

That article suggests they are trying to test them twice before being discharged and the second test is coming back positive after the first was negative.  Its also part of the issue being discussed with antibody testing being badly needed.

And it is definitely something to keep watching out for...there seems to be so much still unknown about this at this point.
Click to expand...
The source cop shtick is not a good look.

https://www.usnews.com/news/world-report/articles/2020-04-10/south-korea-says-recovered-coronavirus-patients-test-positive-again

https://news.trust.org/item/20200413073939-q7ikl/

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/south-korean-covid-19-patients-re-diagnosed-after-they-recovered/ar-BB12sPci?li=BBqdg4K

 
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Trump supporters say "We need to reopen the economy!"  Other than that guidance, however, there have been literally no plans offered to date on HOW we're going to reopen the economy.  Are we just going to tell everyone "go back to normal" and hope that works?

The rest of the sane world is actually offering a plan (massive testing and tracing) on how to do the very thing that Trump says he wants to do, yet his only reaction is "we can't do that!"

I'll repeat something I posted in another thread.  IMO, Trump and his supporters don't actually want to reopen anything, they just want to blame others for the fact that we aren't reopening.

 
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I don't think this should be political.  We should all want more testing.  It's embarassing that we are so far behind the rest of the developed world WRT testing.  I mean, it was embarassing in February.  now it's the middle of April and we are still lagging.  We are 43rd in the world in tests per capita.  43rd. 

I agree with @timschochet that testing is the way forward.  That's the only way we get data, and therefore the only way we can make data-informed decisions.  This is a no-brainer.  

 
moleculo said:
I don't think this should be political.  We should all want more testing.  It's embarassing that we are so far behind the rest of the developed world WRT testing.  I mean, it was embarassing in February.  now it's the middle of April and we are still lagging.  We are 43rd in the world in tests per capita.  43rd. 

I agree with @timschochet that testing is the way forward.  That's the only way we get data, and therefore the only way we can make data-informed decisions.  This is a no-brainer.  
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The reason we don’t have adequate testing is political. 

 
McBokonon said:
The reason we don’t have adequate testing is political. 
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Yes...too many people at every level of government (and Im talking local, state, federal...Democrats and Republicans)...the leadership in those areas look better if the numbers are lower.

 
McBokonon said:
The reason we don’t have adequate testing is political. 
Click to expand...
it's nreally not.  It's not like the republican party is keeping tests own becase they cause abortions or are an expansion of the federal government.  There is nothing inherently political aobut testing for a virus in the middle of a pandemic.

 
This is when we need science the most.

Testing for: active cases of covid19, who is getting sick, who is asymptomatic, and who is exposed but it "bounces" off. Who is a spreader. Are there certain blood types or genetic markers for those subsets?

Testing for antibodies: are those who have been infected immune? Sounds like some are vulnerable to reinfection. Are some immune?

It's time for the people in charge to stop even thinking about re-opening until these questions can be addressed. I'd think that press briefings could eliminate facebook rankings or television ratings, maybe focus on the science and survival stuff and not the narcissist and re-election stuff.

 
Rich Conway said:
Trump supporters say "We need to reopen the economy!"  Other than that guidance, however, there have been literally no plans offered to date on HOW we're going to reopen the economy.  Are we just going to tell everyone "go back to normal" and hope that works?

The rest of the sane world is actually offering a plan (massive testing and tracing) on how to do the very thing that Trump says he wants to do, yet his only reaction is "we can't do that!"

I'll repeat something I posted in another thread.  IMO, Trump and his supporters don't actually want to reopen anything, they just want to blame others for the fact that we aren't reopening.
Click to expand...
Yeah you're wrong.  I'd like my wife to go back to work.  i'd like to see the 20% or more of Americans who are not making ANY INCOME have the ability to work and earn money for things like food and rent.  Full stop.

 
moleculo said:
I don't think this should be political.  We should all want more testing.  It's embarassing that we are so far behind the rest of the developed world WRT testing.  I mean, it was embarassing in February.  now it's the middle of April and we are still lagging.  We are 43rd in the world in tests per capita.  43rd. 

I agree with @timschochet that testing is the way forward.  That's the only way we get data, and therefore the only way we can make data-informed decisions.  This is a no-brainer.  
Click to expand...
We are not behind the "rest of the developed  world".  And to say something like that devalues the rest of your post.  Full Stop.

 
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Mr Anonymous said:
And it's particularly comically used here by Tim as there are an array of alternative options that would allow many places to reopen short of having everyone tested.
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I keep hearing this, yet I have yet to hear what those options are.  Maybe it's my fault in that I haven't kept up or searched enough.  Can you spell out what the array of alternative options are?

 
sho nuff said:
As I have said with others...can we find a better source than the Post...its a sensationalist tabloid.  They are not trustworthy at all.

https://www.sciencealert.com/who-investigates-reports-of-recovered-covid-19-patients-testing-positive-again

That article suggests they are trying to test them twice before being discharged and the second test is coming back positive after the first was negative.  Its also part of the issue being discussed with antibody testing being badly needed.

And it is definitely something to keep watching out for...there seems to be so much still unknown about this at this point.
Click to expand...
That's essentially what the post article said. 

For other pieces (especially opinion) I generally agree, it's not terribly trustworthy.

 
Rich Conway said:
I keep hearing this, yet I have yet to hear what those options are.  Maybe it's my fault in that I haven't kept up or searched enough.  Can you spell out what the array of alternative options are?
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Read the world news. You're welcome.

I didn't say "full stop" at the end of the comment so linking things I've previously linked dozens of time on this website shouldn't be necessary at this point. Find your most trusted publication, liberal, conservative, or in between, and you'll surely find stories of the wide array of measures that can be done and have successfully been done in other countries to combat spread without a simple, blanket shutdown that must last until mass, widespread testing.

Why are some so determined to keep everything shut down for as long as possible, while acting completely ignorant of other options? Suddenly a bunch of people are incapable of grasping middle road options in spite of no shortage of reports they're working elsewhere. But here in the U.S. there's a crowd that says things like "we must stay shut down". Gee, I wonder why?

 
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Mr Anonymous said:
Read the world news. You're welcome.

I didn't say "full stop" at the end of the comment so linking things I've previously linked dozens of time on this website shouldn't be necessary at this point. Find your most trusted publication, liberal, conservative, or in between and you'll surely find stories of the wide array of measures that can be done and have successfully been done in other countries to combat spread without a simple, blanket shutdown that must last until mass, widespread testing.

Why are some so determined to keep everything shut down for as long as possible while acting completely ignorant of other options. Suddenly a bunch of people are incapable of grasping middle road options in spite of no shortage of reports they're working elsewhere. But here in the U.S. there's a crowd that says things like "we must stay shut down". Gee, I wonder why?
Click to expand...
Three words my friend

"Basic Universal Income"

or "Universal Basic Income"

Whichever sounds better to ya

 
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I used full stop because my point was not complex. It was very simple. There are no good alternatives to massive testing. I really don’t care where we are compared to the rest of the world. Either we are testing everyone or we’re not. Right now we’re not. 

 
Mr Anonymous said:
Read the world news. You're welcome.

I didn't say "full stop" at the end of the comment so linking things I've previously linked dozens of time on this website shouldn't be necessary at this point. Find your most trusted publication, liberal, conservative, or in between, and you'll surely find stories of the wide array of measures that can be done and have successfully been done in other countries to combat spread without a simple, blanket shutdown that must last until mass, widespread testing.

Why are some so determined to keep everything shut down for as long as possible, while acting completely ignorant of other options? Suddenly a bunch of people are incapable of grasping middle road options in spite of no shortage of reports they're working elsewhere. But here in the U.S. there's a crowd that says things like "we must stay shut down". Gee, I wonder why?
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Can you summarize just one of the alternate options for me?  Trust me, I've looked on a number of sites, and other than "massive testing and tracing", I've seen no other plans.

 
timschochet said:
I used full stop because my point was not complex. It was very simple. There are no good alternatives to massive testing. I really don’t care where we are compared to the rest of the world. Either we are testing everyone or we’re not. Right now we’re not. 
Click to expand...
Then don't ask for alternate opinions.  Full stop on that

 
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