Mastay's TD pass (1 Viewer)

[davearm]

Furthermore, here's another scenario that doesn't fit davearm's made-up definitions: untouched onside kick recovered in the end zone.

Your D/ST is not involved unless:A) the other team is snapping the ball from scrimmage, orB) the other team is kicking off, orC) there is a change of possession, and the other team fumbles/muffs during the ensuing return.

Was the other team snapping the ball from scrimmage? (NO)Was the other team kicking off? (NO)Was there a change of possession? (NO)Did the other team fumble or muff during the return? (NO)

I really should have stopped you right here and pointed out that kicking off falls under the change of possession umbrella.So criteria C) has been met in your example.

How was there a change of possession? Team A kicked off, Team A recovered, Team A scored a touchdown. Team B never touched the ball.Sorry but you just keep digging a deeper hole here.

Team A surrendered possession to Team B as soon as it kicked it away.What about if Team A punts the ball out of bounds. Has a change of possession occurred then? Team B never touched the ball.

Incorrect. While in the field of play, it is a live ball. A punt is not. Were it kicked off out of bounds, it would become the receiving teams ball at the point that it went out of bounds, not the point where it was kicked.

We're talking fantasy football scoring here, not NFL rules. If you treat both as changes of possession for purposes of scoring fantasy DST points, you'll be golden.

 

[Henry Ford]

I'm talking about the "receiving" team. I don't know what you're talking about.

I don't know why this is so confusing.The team that is kicking/punting can score DST points if/only if the other (receiving) team fumbles or muffs the return.

The team that is not kicking/punting can score DST points by returning the kick/punt for a TD.

This framework applies equally to FG attempts, punts, and fair catch kicks. This is why the whole fair catch kick thing was a big red herring from the get go. Sure it's a unique play, but scoring it is not unique at all.

Yes, but it does not fit into the framework originally cited, which is why it is being mentioned. I agree that I don't know why this is so confusing for some people.

Of course it does. There's a change of possession happening.Look if you call for a fair catch on a kickoff or punt, you have two options:

1) you can retain possession of the ball and put it into play from scrimmage. Or

2) you can relinquish possession by attempting a fair catch kick.

Option 2 clearly is a change of possession.

I think there's something wrong with your screen. You keep cutting off option C) from the original scenarios after "possession."

 

[Henry Ford]

Let me try this another way.

I will only cry if:

A) a family member dies

B) I lose my job

C) you kick me in the johnson and then punch me in the nose

"No, no" you say "I will make you cry by kicking you in the johnson when you're not wearing any pants, even though I don't punch you in the nose!"

"Yes," I say "that's covered by C)"

See how I'm wrong in that scenario?

 

[The Jerk]

We've gone over this a million times.According to the NFL, this is not a D/ST touchdown. It's just a regular offensive touchdown, with Masthay playing quarterback. If you use the "Team QB" position, then you will get the points for your QB.Most fantasy football leagues will NOT credit this TD to the D/ST, simply because they choose to strictly interpret the NFL rules. But in my opinion, that's a mistake. I think that TDs like this should be credited to the D/ST. The fantasy football world needs to stop living by the NFL's terminology and think outside the box once in a while. The D/ST was on the field, therefore the D/ST should be rewarded with the points.

I 100% agree. This is a special teams play.

Believe what you want. But consider, on the path you're on, you're maybe 2-3 steps away from calling a draw play a pass, or a play-action fake pass a run. You say that's different? I disagree. The alignment and initial action (snap) of the fake field goal was the same as a real field goal. So the alignment and initial action of a draw play is a pass, so score it that way. And the alignment and initial action of a play-action fake pass is a run, so score it that way. Football is a game full of strategic deception. Relying on perceived intent or formation rather than the actual events that occur during a play opens up an enormous can of worms.So you want fake field goals and punts to be scored as special teams plays? Well, I want a shovel pass to be scored as a run. Really, it's just a forward-throwing draw play. And when a sweep is run off of a pitch instead of a handoff, I want my QB to get credit for a pass. I mean, he threw the ball, right, so what if it was underhand and backward? That's all you pesky people following the monolithic stodgy NFL and its rules.The reason people use definitions, not so much "NFL rules" as you suggest, is so that there can be consistency across all games, not just the ones that have the highest profile. The box score says this was a pass from one player to another that resulted in a touchdown. And so that is how it should be scored. If your league wishes to have exceptions for plays such as this, than spell it out in the rules. Otherwise, in theory, every play can be reviewed by the Commissioner to determine whether or not it should be scored one way or the other.

 

[Sweet Love]

We've gone over this a million times.

According to the NFL, this is not a D/ST touchdown. It's just a regular offensive touchdown, with Masthay playing quarterback. If you use the "Team QB" position, then you will get the points for your QB.

Most fantasy football leagues will NOT credit this TD to the D/ST, simply because they choose to strictly interpret the NFL rules. But in my opinion, that's a mistake. I think that TDs like this should be credited to the D/ST. The fantasy football world needs to stop living by the NFL's terminology and think outside the box once in a while. The D/ST was on the field, therefore the D/ST should be rewarded with the points.

True...this never happens...remember that time Kevin Dyson caught the ball and fell one yard short of a TD in the SB and jumped up and yelled, "don't worry, I got 3 points for yardage on that play and a point for catching it...we win!!!!". The NFL and general fantasy are barely tied together at this point. I am not sure what you are getting at in your suggestion? Just because they did a trick play and put certain personnel out there, it should be a DST score? What if Cutler throws a pick (yeah, go figure) and the CB fumbles and Earl Bennett picks it up and goes to the house? Would that be a defensive TD, because under your definition it should be, and that is wrong.

 

[Reepicheep]

Let me try this another way.I will only cry if:A) a family member diesB) I lose my jobC) you kick me in the johnson and then punch me in the nose"No, no" you say "I will make you cry by kicking you in the johnson when you're not wearing any pants, even though I don't punch you in the nose!""Yes," I say "that's covered by C)"See how I'm wrong in that scenario?

I am not even sure why this little side debate went on for an extra page or so but I am so glad it resulted in this post.

 

[Lash]

did the offense practice this in the weeks prior to this game or did the special teams practice this play in the weeks prior to this play?

it is so silly to me how people say this isn't a special teams touchdown

our league has a simple rule, was a kicker or punter on the field when the play started?

Yes. Well then the SPECIAL TEAMS SCORED THE TOUCHDOWN

leagues like those posters above me are in don't have Special Teams touchdowns they only have Return touchdowns

If your league overrides conventional wisdom, that's great. But it's only a ST score if the ball is kicked. Just because the holder was a punter, who cares? A lot of times it's the back-up QB. Why would it be a ST play then? By your rules if a kicker or punter comes in with the offense and lines up as a WR, no matter the down, it's a ST play?

Fact is it's not a ST play until the ball is kicked.

True. But since that scenario has never played out, it works for some leagues. Nothing wrong with that.

LOLpoint to one play in history where that has happened

 

[belljr]

We've gone over this a million times.According to the NFL, this is not a D/ST touchdown. It's just a regular offensive touchdown, with Masthay playing quarterback. If you use the "Team QB" position, then you will get the points for your QB.Most fantasy football leagues will NOT credit this TD to the D/ST, simply because they choose to strictly interpret the NFL rules. But in my opinion, that's a mistake. I think that TDs like this should be credited to the D/ST. The fantasy football world needs to stop living by the NFL's terminology and think outside the box once in a while. The D/ST was on the field, therefore the D/ST should be rewarded with the points.

We used to count it but now we dont, as someone mentioned in another thread or this, made fg don't count towards special teams and they are on the field

 

[Lash]

did the offense practice this in the weeks prior to this game or did the special teams practice this play in the weeks prior to this play?it is so silly to me how people say this isn't a special teams touchdownour league has a simple rule, was a kicker or punter on the field when the play started?Yes. Well then the SPECIAL TEAMS SCORED THE TOUCHDOWNleagues like those posters above me are in don't have Special Teams touchdowns they only have Return touchdowns

no one has answered my questionwhich part of practice is used to practice these plays. SPECIAL TEAMS practice or OFFENSE?SPECIAL TEAMS players run these playsand don't give me "well we score exactly like the NFL and they score that for the offense"we give 10 or 12 points for a passing TD (6 to WR and 4 or 6 to QB)is that "well we score exactly like the NFL" ?Nogive credit to the Special Teams because they scored the TD

 

[Lash]

did the offense practice this in the weeks prior to this game or did the special teams practice this play in the weeks prior to this play?

it is so silly to me how people say this isn't a special teams touchdown

our league has a simple rule, was a kicker or punter on the field when the play started?

Yes. Well then the SPECIAL TEAMS SCORED THE TOUCHDOWN

leagues like those posters above me are in don't have Special Teams touchdowns they only have Return touchdowns

If your league overrides conventional wisdom, that's great. But it's only a ST score if the ball is kicked. Just because the holder was a punter, who cares? A lot of times it's the back-up QB. Why would it be a ST play then? By your rules if a kicker or punter comes in with the offense and lines up as a WR, no matter the down, it's a ST play?

Fact is it's not a ST play until the ball is kicked.

True. But since that scenario has never played out, it works for some leagues. Nothing wrong with that.

LOLpoint to one play in history where that has happened

and to add, it's not like 1987 where we scored by USA TODAY, you can watch all scoring plays on NFL so everyone knows that the Special Teams scored the TD so give it to the DST

 

[belljr]

did the offense practice this in the weeks prior to this game or did the special teams practice this play in the weeks prior to this play?it is so silly to me how people say this isn't a special teams touchdownour league has a simple rule, was a kicker or punter on the field when the play started?Yes. Well then the SPECIAL TEAMS SCORED THE TOUCHDOWNleagues like those posters above me are in don't have Special Teams touchdowns they only have Return touchdowns

no one has answered my questionwhich part of practice is used to practice these plays. SPECIAL TEAMS practice or OFFENSE?SPECIAL TEAMS players run these playsand don't give me "well we score exactly like the NFL and they score that for the offense"we give 10 or 12 points for a passing TD (6 to WR and 4 or 6 to QB)is that "well we score exactly like the NFL" ?Nogive credit to the Special Teams because they scored the TD

Who practices the fg you don't give st points for?

 

[bagger]

did the offense practice this in the weeks prior to this game or did the special teams practice this play in the weeks prior to this play?it is so silly to me how people say this isn't a special teams touchdownour league has a simple rule, was a kicker or punter on the field when the play started?Yes. Well then the SPECIAL TEAMS SCORED THE TOUCHDOWNleagues like those posters above me are in don't have Special Teams touchdowns they only have Return touchdowns

no one has answered my questionwhich part of practice is used to practice these plays. SPECIAL TEAMS practice or OFFENSE?SPECIAL TEAMS players run these playsand don't give me "well we score exactly like the NFL and they score that for the offense"we give 10 or 12 points for a passing TD (6 to WR and 4 or 6 to QB)is that "well we score exactly like the NFL" ?Nogive credit to the Special Teams because they scored the TD

youre confused.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

did the offense practice this in the weeks prior to this game or did the special teams practice this play in the weeks prior to this play?it is so silly to me how people say this isn't a special teams touchdownour league has a simple rule, was a kicker or punter on the field when the play started?Yes. Well then the SPECIAL TEAMS SCORED THE TOUCHDOWNleagues like those posters above me are in don't have Special Teams touchdowns they only have Return touchdowns

no one has answered my questionwhich part of practice is used to practice these plays. SPECIAL TEAMS practice or OFFENSE?SPECIAL TEAMS players run these playsand don't give me "well we score exactly like the NFL and they score that for the offense"we give 10 or 12 points for a passing TD (6 to WR and 4 or 6 to QB)is that "well we score exactly like the NFL" ?Nogive credit to the Special Teams because they scored the TD

This question has already been answered. The answer is: Your league is welcome to score it however you like. There's no "right" or "wrong" way to assign points in magic football. Most leagues do not award the TD to the DST in this instance, but there's no reason you shouldn't if that's the way you like it.Your reasoning, however, is silly. Special teams units practice field goals. Special teams units score the FG during the game. Yet most leagues - probably yours as well - don't award field goals to the DST. So it's totally arbitrary.

 

[wadegarrett]

did the offense practice this in the weeks prior to this game or did the special teams practice this play in the weeks prior to this play?

it is so silly to me how people say this isn't a special teams touchdown

our league has a simple rule, was a kicker or punter on the field when the play started?

Yes. Well then the SPECIAL TEAMS SCORED THE TOUCHDOWN

leagues like those posters above me are in don't have Special Teams touchdowns they only have Return touchdowns

If your league overrides conventional wisdom, that's great. But it's only a ST score if the ball is kicked. Just because the holder was a punter, who cares? A lot of times it's the back-up QB. Why would it be a ST play then? By your rules if a kicker or punter comes in with the offense and lines up as a WR, no matter the down, it's a ST play?

Fact is it's not a ST play until the ball is kicked.

True. But since that scenario has never played out, it works for some leagues. Nothing wrong with that.

LOLpoint to one play in history where that has happened

where a kicker or punter comes in with the offense and lines up as a WR?I can't. Which is why I said that.

 

[wadegarrett]

The answer is: Your league is welcome to score it however you like. There's no "right" or "wrong" way to assign points in magic football. Most leagues do not award the TD to the DST in this instance, but there's no reason you shouldn't if that's the way you like it.

WE'VE GOT A BINGO IN THE BACK PEOPLE!

 

[acarey50]

did the offense practice this in the weeks prior to this game or did the special teams practice this play in the weeks prior to this play?it is so silly to me how people say this isn't a special teams touchdownour league has a simple rule, was a kicker or punter on the field when the play started?Yes. Well then the SPECIAL TEAMS SCORED THE TOUCHDOWNleagues like those posters above me are in don't have Special Teams touchdowns they only have Return touchdowns

no one has answered my questionwhich part of practice is used to practice these plays. SPECIAL TEAMS practice or OFFENSE?SPECIAL TEAMS players run these playsand don't give me "well we score exactly like the NFL and they score that for the offense"we give 10 or 12 points for a passing TD (6 to WR and 4 or 6 to QB)is that "well we score exactly like the NFL" ?Nogive credit to the Special Teams because they scored the TD

Technically there is no such thing as a "Special Team". A team is either on offense or on defense. According to the NFL rulebook, the team that possesses the ball is on offense, and their opponent is on defense. No such thing as a "special team" by definition.From the NFL rulebook:http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/6_Rule3_Definitions.pdf

Section 35 Team A and B, Offense and DefenseOFFENSE AND DEFENSEArticle 1Whenever a team is in possession (3-2-7), it is the Offense and, at such time, its opponent is theDefense.TEAM A AND TEAM BArticle 2The team that puts the ball in play is Team A, and its opponent is Team B. For brevity, a player ofTeam A is referred to as A1 and his teammates as A2, A3, etc. Opponents are B1, B2, etc.OFFICIAL NFL PLAYING RULES 13Note: A team becomes Team A when it has been designated to put ball in play, and it remains Team A until adown ends, even though there might be one or more changes of possession during the down. This is incontrast with the terms Offense and Defense. Team A is always the offense when a down starts, butbecomes the defense if and when B secures possession during the down, and vice versa for each changeof possession.Article 3A change of possession occurs when a player of the defensive team secures possession of a ballthat has been kicked, passed, or fumbled by a player of the offensive team, or when the ball is awarded tothe opposing team by rule. A change of possession includes but is not limited to:(a) an interception of a forward pass; or(b) a catch or recovery of a fumble or backward pass; or© a catch or recovery of a Scrimmage Kick, Free Kick, or Fair Catch Kick.(d) when the offensive team fails to reach the line to gain on fourth down.(e) when the offensive team misses a field-goal attempt.

 

[BroadwayG]

Since there was a fake FG TD in week 1, we are due to not have another fake FG TD for at least another 8 weeks.

 

[Joe Summer]

did the offense practice this in the weeks prior to this game or did the special teams practice this play in the weeks prior to this play?

it is so silly to me how people say this isn't a special teams touchdown

our league has a simple rule, was a kicker or punter on the field when the play started?

Yes. Well then the SPECIAL TEAMS SCORED THE TOUCHDOWN

leagues like those posters above me are in don't have Special Teams touchdowns they only have Return touchdowns

If your league overrides conventional wisdom, that's great. But it's only a ST score if the ball is kicked. Just because the holder was a punter, who cares? A lot of times it's the back-up QB. Why would it be a ST play then? By your rules if a kicker or punter comes in with the offense and lines up as a WR, no matter the down, it's a ST play?

Fact is it's not a ST play until the ball is kicked.

True. But since that scenario has never played out, it works for some leagues. Nothing wrong with that.

LOLpoint to one play in history where that has happened

Larry Seiple played 11 seasons in the NFL as punter. He also had 73 career receptions as a Tight End.

 

[The Jerk]

point to one play in history where that has happened

Larry Seiple played 11 seasons in the NFL as punter. He also had 73 career receptions as a Tight End.

From my childhood, the first player I thought of was Pat McInally. p-f-r.com57 career receptions, 5 TDs, one-time All-Pro punter, and perhaps best known for scoring a perfect 50 on the Wonderlic.

 

[bagger]

did the offense practice this in the weeks prior to this game or did the special teams practice this play in the weeks prior to this play?

it is so silly to me how people say this isn't a special teams touchdown

our league has a simple rule, was a kicker or punter on the field when the play started?

Yes. Well then the SPECIAL TEAMS SCORED THE TOUCHDOWN

leagues like those posters above me are in don't have Special Teams touchdowns they only have Return touchdowns

If your league overrides conventional wisdom, that's great. But it's only a ST score if the ball is kicked. Just because the holder was a punter, who cares? A lot of times it's the back-up QB. Why would it be a ST play then? By your rules if a kicker or punter comes in with the offense and lines up as a WR, no matter the down, it's a ST play?

Fact is it's not a ST play until the ball is kicked.

True. But since that scenario has never played out, it works for some leagues. Nothing wrong with that.

LOLpoint to one play in history where that has happened

Larry Seiple played 11 seasons in the NFL as punter. He also had 73 career receptions as a Tight End.

awesome.

 

[Johnny Blood]

I'm not assuming anything -- I'm going by the official NFL rules. If an onside kick is recovered in the end zone, it is a touchdown. The NFL will credit that touchdown as a Special Teams Touchdown.

Now, if *you* choose not to award those points to the D/ST, then that's your personal business. But it would completely go against the NFL's official policy.

It's been a while since I've looked into these things, but to the best of my knowledge, the NFL doesn't actually make any kind of distinction like "special teams touchdown." It's just a touchdown. In fact, I'm not sure they even make a distinction such as "special teams." The team that starts the play with the ball is the offense, and the other team is the defense. I could very well be wrong, but I'd be interested to see the exact part of the NFL rule book that makes it "official policy" to credit a TD as a Special Teams Touchdown.

Look at page 15 of the official nfl gamebook for this game:http://www.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamecenter/55520/GB_Gamebook.pdf

Packers Offensive Touchdowns 2

Defensive Touchdowns 0

Special Teams Touchdowns 0

 

[apalmer]

did the offense practice this in the weeks prior to this game or did the special teams practice this play in the weeks prior to this play?

it is so silly to me how people say this isn't a special teams touchdown

our league has a simple rule, was a kicker or punter on the field when the play started?

Yes. Well then the SPECIAL TEAMS SCORED THE TOUCHDOWN

leagues like those posters above me are in don't have Special Teams touchdowns they only have Return touchdowns

If your league overrides conventional wisdom, that's great. But it's only a ST score if the ball is kicked. Just because the holder was a punter, who cares? A lot of times it's the back-up QB. Why would it be a ST play then? By your rules if a kicker or punter comes in with the offense and lines up as a WR, no matter the down, it's a ST play?

Fact is it's not a ST play until the ball is kicked.

True. But since that scenario has never played out, it works for some leagues. Nothing wrong with that.

LOLpoint to one play in history where that has happened

Larry Seiple played 11 seasons in the NFL as punter. He also had 73 career receptions as a Tight End.

awesome.

Gino Cappelletti

 

[Mile High]

did the offense practice this in the weeks prior to this game or did the special teams practice this play in the weeks prior to this play?

it is so silly to me how people say this isn't a special teams touchdown

our league has a simple rule, was a kicker or punter on the field when the play started?

Yes. Well then the SPECIAL TEAMS SCORED THE TOUCHDOWN

leagues like those posters above me are in don't have Special Teams touchdowns they only have Return touchdowns

If your league overrides conventional wisdom, that's great. But it's only a ST score if the ball is kicked. Just because the holder was a punter, who cares? A lot of times it's the back-up QB. Why would it be a ST play then? By your rules if a kicker or punter comes in with the offense and lines up as a WR, no matter the down, it's a ST play?

Fact is it's not a ST play until the ball is kicked.

True. But since that scenario has never played out, it works for some leagues. Nothing wrong with that.

LOLpoint to one play in history where that has happened

Larry Seiple played 11 seasons in the NFL as punter. He also had 73 career receptions as a Tight End.

awesome.

Gino Cappelletti

George Blanda. Not sure if he caught many passes but he threw for a bunch and kicked FGs and extra points.

 

[Johnny Blood]

Paul Hornung STILL holds the record for most points per game in a season (total points record stood until Ladanian Tomlinson broke it during a much longer season), and he also played kicker. Having a kicker on the field is irrelevant. That approach would mean the most prolific scoring season in NFL history (Hornung 1960) had nothing to do with offense.

You can say, oh, he was really a running back, not a kicker. Well he was the team's kicker as well so what the heck would you do with that situation? Who cares how they line up. If it isn't kicked or blocked, it isn't a special teams play.

In fact, you can consider any snap of the ball that results in a run or a pass as a fake drop kick field goal. There's no requirement to get into the modern field goal formation to kick a field goal.

 

[Sarnoff]

our league has a simple rule, was a kicker or punter on the field when the play started?

Yes. Well then the SPECIAL TEAMS SCORED THE TOUCHDOWN

Wait, so how did you league handle the few times that Donovan McNabb would quick-kick a punt? I'd love to play in your league, since you can start the New England DST and get all the points Tom Brady scores.

 

[Shawn]

We've gone over this a million times.

According to the NFL, this is not a D/ST touchdown. It's just a regular offensive touchdown, with Masthay playing quarterback. If you use the "Team QB" position, then you will get the points for your QB.

Most fantasy football leagues will NOT credit this TD to the D/ST, simply because they choose to strictly interpret the NFL rules. But in my opinion, that's a mistake. I think that TDs like this should be credited to the D/ST. The fantasy football world needs to stop living by the NFL's terminology and think outside the box once in a while. The D/ST was on the field, therefore the D/ST should be rewarded with the points.

By this line of thinking, the D/ST gets points for FGs and extra points, too, then.

Would that be such a bad thing? Most FF leagues give double points when an offensive player scores a TD on a kick return, right? Why not apply the same logic to the kicking game? Or just eliminate the Kicker position altogether and apply all kicking points to the D/ST.

ooh I like this

Terrible Idea, I actually enjoy researching kickers and playing k matchups each week. how about eliminate the d/st position completely and just play Offense against Offense?

 

[Shawn]

our league has a simple rule, was a kicker or punter on the field when the play started?

Yes. Well then the SPECIAL TEAMS SCORED THE TOUCHDOWN

Wait, so how did you league handle the few times that Donovan McNabb would quick-kick a punt? I'd love to play in your league, since you can start the New England DST and get all the points Tom Brady scores.

brady and mcnabb were/are not on the roster as a PK or P

 

[whatadai]

My league starts punters. Someone started Masthay.

 

[Shawn]

My league starts punters. Someone started Masthay.

tell me how you guys score punters PLEASE!!! I want to add them to my dynasty league draft next year

 

[Sarnoff]

our league has a simple rule, was a kicker or punter on the field when the play started?

Yes. Well then the SPECIAL TEAMS SCORED THE TOUCHDOWN

Wait, so how did you league handle the few times that Donovan McNabb would quick-kick a punt? I'd love to play in your league, since you can start the New England DST and get all the points Tom Brady scores.

brady and mcnabb were/are not on the roster as a PK or P

If you run into them quick-kicking, you get flagged for "roughing the kicker".

They're also not on the roster as Running Backs, but you get rushing yards for them, don't you? Dexter McCluster's listed as a WR, yet if he lines up as the fullback in the I-formation, you get rushing yards.

The "simple" rule he posted has plenty of loopholes is what I'm pointing out here, it doesn't really solve the problem as well as he thinks it does.

 

[Black]

What's the correct scoring rule on Mastay's TD shovel pass on Special Teams last night? Is it not a Green Bay DEF/ST score ?

Pretty sure Yahoo counts it just like if Mastay came in as a backup QB and threw a TD...nada for the DST.Hard for them to gage the 'intention' of the team...ie, I don't think there's a stat that says 'the team was lined up for a FG/punt' or 'the kicker was on the field' and/or 'it was 4th down.'So it's clear to all us watching that it is a ST TD, but think the stats can't be 'sure' of that.

 

[vasco75]

I'm not assuming anything -- I'm going by the official NFL rules. If an onside kick is recovered in the end zone, it is a touchdown. The NFL will credit that touchdown as a Special Teams Touchdown.

Now, if *you* choose not to award those points to the D/ST, then that's your personal business. But it would completely go against the NFL's official policy.

It's been a while since I've looked into these things, but to the best of my knowledge, the NFL doesn't actually make any kind of distinction like "special teams touchdown." It's just a touchdown. In fact, I'm not sure they even make a distinction such as "special teams." The team that starts the play with the ball is the offense, and the other team is the defense. I could very well be wrong, but I'd be interested to see the exact part of the NFL rule book that makes it "official policy" to credit a TD as a Special Teams Touchdown.

Look at page 15 of the official nfl gamebook for this game:http://www.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamecenter/55520/GB_Gamebook.pdf

Packers Offensive Touchdowns 2

Defensive Touchdowns 0

Special Teams Touchdowns 0

Job well done finding this!

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

usually D/ST get credit for - fumble return for TD, INT return fro TD, kickoff Return for TD, Punt return for TD, blocked kick return for TD, They do not get credit for gadget/trick/fake runs/passes for TDs

This is true but I don't agree with it. My feeling is a fake field goal done by the specials teams is a special teams touchdown. I understand it's not, I'm simply saying I don't agree with it. Have GB as my D in one league and played against them in another.

 

[bagger]

usually D/ST get credit for - fumble return for TD, INT return fro TD, kickoff Return for TD, Punt return for TD, blocked kick return for TD, They do not get credit for gadget/trick/fake runs/passes for TDs

This is true but I don't agree with it. My feeling is a fake field goal done by the specials teams is a special teams touchdown. I understand it's not, I'm simply saying I don't agree with it. Have GB as my D in one league and played against them in another.

in what instance does your team lining up for a fg ever gets points for dst?

 

[Shawn]

It would be one thing if Mason Crosby threw it

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

I'm not assuming anything -- I'm going by the official NFL rules. If an onside kick is recovered in the end zone, it is a touchdown. The NFL will credit that touchdown as a Special Teams Touchdown.

Now, if *you* choose not to award those points to the D/ST, then that's your personal business. But it would completely go against the NFL's official policy.

It's been a while since I've looked into these things, but to the best of my knowledge, the NFL doesn't actually make any kind of distinction like "special teams touchdown." It's just a touchdown. In fact, I'm not sure they even make a distinction such as "special teams." The team that starts the play with the ball is the offense, and the other team is the defense. I could very well be wrong, but I'd be interested to see the exact part of the NFL rule book that makes it "official policy" to credit a TD as a Special Teams Touchdown.

Look at page 15 of the official nfl gamebook for this game:http://www.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamecenter/55520/GB_Gamebook.pdf

Packers Offensive Touchdowns 2

Defensive Touchdowns 0

Special Teams Touchdowns 0

Good find. I'm aware that they're referred to as special teams TDs in the media and other general parlance, but I still don't think there's any support for Joe Summer's claim that he's "going by the official NFL rules" or that it's "the NFL's official policy" to credit special teams touchdowns. At least the gamebook supports the notion that it was an offensive TD as opposed to a special teams TD.

 

[Ace28]

Unless there is a punt or kick it is not a d/st play.

 

[Manster]

What's the correct scoring rule on Mastay's TD shovel pass on Special Teams last night? Is it not a Green Bay DEF/ST score ?

Unless your league SPECIFICALLY calls it a score for Def/ST, it shouldn't count as such. It's no different than if Tim Tebow comes in on a wildcat play and throws a TD pass. Just because Sanchez isn't the QB, doesn't make it a D/ST score.

This. Its an offensive play. Thats how the NFL scores it

 

[BroadwayG]

Unless there is a punt or kick it is not a d/st play.

You don't give d/st points for interception return for a TD?

 

[DropKick]

did the offense practice this in the weeks prior to this game or did the special teams practice this play in the weeks prior to this play?

it is so silly to me how people say this isn't a special teams touchdown

our league has a simple rule, was a kicker or punter on the field when the play started?

Yes. Well then the SPECIAL TEAMS SCORED THE TOUCHDOWN

leagues like those posters above me are in don't have Special Teams touchdowns they only have Return touchdowns

If your league overrides conventional wisdom, that's great. But it's only a ST score if the ball is kicked. Just because the holder was a punter, who cares? A lot of times it's the back-up QB. Why would it be a ST play then? By your rules if a kicker or punter comes in with the offense and lines up as a WR, no matter the down, it's a ST play?

Fact is it's not a ST play until the ball is kicked.

True. But since that scenario has never played out, it works for some leagues. Nothing wrong with that.

LOLpoint to one play in history where that has happened

where a kicker or punter comes in with the offense and lines up as a WR?I can't. Which is why I said that.

I've seen many things... I've seen Randy Moss play defensive back on Hail Marys... Now I believe this is a stupid topic - clearly an offensive play - but I'll bite. We've had some versatile players... some play football and even baseball too but anyone recall George Blanda (QB and placekicker). So, if someone like that played today, whenever he was on the field - the ST would get points...

 

[DropKick]

Unless there is a punt or kick it is not a d/st play.

You don't give d/st points for interception return for a TD?

Lord, how thick can we be? He is talking about the "ST" part - not the "D" part...

 

[DropKick]

It would be one thing if Mason Crosby threw it

Why? If he was your kicker, you would get credit for a TD pass. That would be cool.

 

[ImTheScientist]

You kiddies still arguing to try to get 6 points.....lol

 

[glumpy]

RTSports counts it as an "Offensive Special Teams Play" and leaves it to the leagues to decide if they count OST's as well as DST's.

In ours the scoring rules define passing and rushing td rules--so it counted for 6 points.