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McFadden, Gholston have look of NFL busts (1 Viewer)

Mimo

Footballguy
http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=453972

McFadden, Gholston have look of NFL busts

Posted: September 5, 2008

Few players selected in the 2008 NFL draft displayed better measurable skills than Arkansas running back Darren McFadden and Ohio State end/linebacker Vernon Gholston. Both ran fast at the NFL Scouting Combine in February, with McFadden clocking in at 4.33 seconds in the 40-yard dash and Gholston crossing the tape in less than 4.7 seconds, remarkable for a 266-pound man.

I could not wait to study both on tape, anticipating that I would be evaluating two players who would make immediate and long-term impacts in the NFL. In the case of McFadden, I was led to believe he was as good as, or even better than, the Vikings' Adrian Peterson, who led the NFC in rushing and shattered the NFL single-game rushing record in '07.

I watched game after game, eight in all, and struggled to find the attributes that would project McFadden as being a big success in the NFL. The key in assessing college players is not to be blinded by production but rather to have a strong understanding of the traits and attributes that translate to the NFL game.

Think of the top running backs in the NFL, players like Peterson, LaDainian Tomlinson, Brian Westbrook, Fred Taylor. Even though each has his own distinct style, one characteristic they all share is lateral agility and explosiveness. They each have an elusiveness, a shiftiness that makes it difficult for defenders to get clean hits. They have that wiggle, that "shake and bake" that allows them to make unblocked defenders miss in the open field.

Lateral quickness and explosiveness is an essential trait to be an elite NFL runner. Great runners create space with their quick feet and elusiveness. They change direction almost effortlessly, with a fluidity and smoothness that belies their dynamic quickness.

That's far more important than straight-line speed, which has little to do with being a top-line NFL back. McFadden's game is about downhill speed and acceleration. There is no question he is vertically explosive. He can run by people. And in Arkansas' version of the spread offense, with the wide splits by the offensive linemen and the defense stretched horizontally, McFadden at times was able to explode through gaping holes and simply outrun his pursuers.

But that's all the tape showed.

He lacked lateral agility, that innate ability to change direction and create space, while at the same time avoiding contact. He did not exhibit great balance or body control. He was not a natural runner with instincts and vision, which really concerns me as he transitions to the power-based and zone-based running games that define the NFL.

McFadden also ran with a narrow base, showing little physicality for a man who weighs 211 pounds. In fact, he often stopped his feet when he anticipated taking a hit, rarely running through tackles. I was surprised at how easily he went down.

It was as if McFadden collapsed upon contact.

I have no doubt McFadden will produce some electrifying plays this season with the Raiders, but he does not possess the attributes that produce excellence, or even consistency, as a feature back in the NFL.

Gholston was chosen sixth in last April's draft, two spots after McFadden. Gholston played defensive end at Ohio State, but the Jets project him as an outside linebacker in their 3-4 scheme. His size and speed profile was deemed the right combination for him to transition well to the NFL as an elite pass rusher.

A number of things struck me as I watched six Ohio State games on tape, and I did this after I witnessed his athletic feats at the NFL Combine. First, Gholston's athleticism on the field, during games, did not match his off-field measurable skills. He did not play anywhere near as fast as he timed in the 40-yard dash.

In addition, his level of energy and effort varied from play to play, game to game. He did not come across on film as a consistent competitor, and that's always a red flag. In fact, in three of the game tapes I broke down, I would not have known Gholston was on the field if not specifically watching him.

What made Gholston a tough evaluation was that he occasionally flashed the natural explosion off the snap and the burst and acceleration necessary to be an effective NFL edge rusher.

He was selectively explosive. He showed that against LSU in last year's national championship game. He played with intensity and effort, and his athletic ability and physicality stood out.

But other than the sporadic pass rush, Gholston did not show the attributes demanded to play outside linebacker in a base 3-4 scheme. He lacked change-of-direction skills, and he did not show quick movement in the open field. And that really jumped out on film in preseason.

Sure, there is a steep learning curve in the NFL from a mental standpoint, and that can limit reaction time, but Gholston showed no stop-and-start skills and little athleticism in preseason games. He was slow and plodding.

Gholston looks like a street free agent.

He is a project as an NFL outside linebacker and a question mark as a pass rusher, even with his hand on the ground at defensive end.

Greg Cosell of NFL Films analyzes coaching tape and is executive producer of State Farm NFL Matchup. He is a frequent contributor to Sporting News.

 
When did ADP "shatter" the NFL single-game rushing record in '07. I thought he beat it by 1 yard?

 
Mimo said:
He lacked lateral agility, that innate ability to change direction and create space, while at the same time avoiding contact. He did not exhibit great balance or body control. He was not a natural runner with instincts and vision, which really concerns me as he transitions to the power-based and zone-based running games that define the NFL.
I know it's just preseason, but I saw McFadden display all these things on numerous carries. Maybe Mr. Cosell needs to see more tape?
 
as a jet fan, i worry about Gholston. However, i did see improvement as the pre-season went on. He did a better job keeping contain and leverage while engaged by a blocker. He did a better job turning runs back inside.

It looks like he wont have the immediate pass rush impact that i thought he would, but i don't see him as a bust yet. Way too early to make that claim. I still feel he can be a physical force on the edge and an eventual double digit sack guy. But his playing time and 3-down capabilities are going to be limited until he starts thinking a little faster and gets more comfortable in coverage situations.

 
one man's opinion:

Dolphins beat Jets in the draft's first round

Last April the Dolphins used the first pick of the draft to select Jake Long. The New York Jets used their first round pick, the sixth pick overall, to select outside linebacker Vernon Gholston.

Advantage Dolphins!

While Long has come pretty much as advertised so far and will start at offensive left tackle for Miami in the regular-season opener, Gholston has not quite started so fast. In fact, he's been awful.

I had Michael Lombardi, a 20-year NFL personnel man with Oakland, Cleveland and other teams, on my radio show over the weekend. First of all, he doesn't think the Jets are going to be very good at all. He picked them fourth in the AFC East, behind New England, Buffalo and Miami.

And he hates Gholston.

This is what Lombardi wrote in the National Football Post after the Jets preseason finale against Philadelphia.

"I watched Gholston last night and he is not playing well right now. What is most alarming is his inability to come off the blocks without explosison or to play the game with any physicality. Coming out of college, he did not, in my opinion, have one-step quickness. he has to run his feet to generate power -- much like a boxer who needs to "wind up" to throw a punch. Gholston is a poor rusher, playing right into the lineman. As a dropper, he has no chance. If he is in coverage, he is a HUGE liability. The question the Jets should be asking themselves is, 'How are we going to dress him on Sunday?' He is not a special teams player and won't be on the field as a rusher with the defense. Difficult to imagine drafting aplayer with the sixth overall, he is not a quarterback, and he does not offer any help on Sunday."

Long, meanwhile, has met every expectation of the Dolphins coaching staff. He still needs to improve his technique but coaches are riding him hard to get that done. Head coach Tony Sparano, in particular, has been spending time with Long to get him better as quickly as possible.

He is not a Pro Bowl player now. But with some experience and some improved technique and some time, he has the makings. The Dolphins believe they hit paydirt with the guy.

The Jets with Gholston? Not so much.

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/

 
I've felt for a while that Gholston and McFadden were the riskiest of the "elite" prospects in the draft. You can add Matt Ryan to that group as well since first round QBs are a notorious crapshoot.

 
one man's opinion:

Dolphins beat Jets in the draft's first round

Last April the Dolphins used the first pick of the draft to select Jake Long. The New York Jets used their first round pick, the sixth pick overall, to select outside linebacker Vernon Gholston.

Advantage Dolphins!

While Long has come pretty much as advertised so far and will start at offensive left tackle for Miami in the regular-season opener, Gholston has not quite started so fast. In fact, he's been awful.

I had Michael Lombardi, a 20-year NFL personnel man with Oakland, Cleveland and other teams, on my radio show over the weekend. First of all, he doesn't think the Jets are going to be very good at all. He picked them fourth in the AFC East, behind New England, Buffalo and Miami.

And he hates Gholston.

This is what Lombardi wrote in the National Football Post after the Jets preseason finale against Philadelphia.

"I watched Gholston last night and he is not playing well right now. What is most alarming is his inability to come off the blocks without explosison or to play the game with any physicality. Coming out of college, he did not, in my opinion, have one-step quickness. he has to run his feet to generate power -- much like a boxer who needs to "wind up" to throw a punch. Gholston is a poor rusher, playing right into the lineman. As a dropper, he has no chance. If he is in coverage, he is a HUGE liability. The question the Jets should be asking themselves is, 'How are we going to dress him on Sunday?' He is not a special teams player and won't be on the field as a rusher with the defense. Difficult to imagine drafting aplayer with the sixth overall, he is not a quarterback, and he does not offer any help on Sunday."

Long, meanwhile, has met every expectation of the Dolphins coaching staff. He still needs to improve his technique but coaches are riding him hard to get that done. Head coach Tony Sparano, in particular, has been spending time with Long to get him better as quickly as possible.

He is not a Pro Bowl player now. But with some experience and some improved technique and some time, he has the makings. The Dolphins believe they hit paydirt with the guy.

The Jets with Gholston? Not so much.

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/
Basically, then, the Dolphins got to pick first, and the Jets got to pick 6th.....ADVANTAGE DOLPHINS! What brilliant insight. Reasoning that a guy is a bust before they have played one NFL snap is asinine. It's just some dude who had to write something for his worthless column one day.
 
In my mind, and likely many others, there was always a "big seven" leading up to this draft, and no other prospect would break into it. Surely enough, those seven guys were the first seven picks, albeit selected in a different order than I predicted. Of the seven, Gholston was by far the worst guy IMO and it should've been a big six. Hardly going out on a limb to call this guy a bust, really.

McFadden? Eh, we'll see. I agree he lacks lateral agility and is not going to make many NFL linebackers miss, nor will he run over them. The question is, how well can Oakland block for him? If people think Larry Johnson of 2004-2006 was a product of the OL in front of him and he's useless without it, just watch McFadden. He's a 1500-yard rusher, which would include some huge games and huge individual runs, with a line that gets him space, but he's not going to be a productive back with a so-so line, while other RBs out there can and have been.

 
geez, you'd wonder how McFadden even started a game in his career at Arkansas with all the limitations he has as a runner. for a guy that can only run in a straight line really fast he did pretty well in the toughest conference in the nation. i think McFadden has a little more lateral running ability then this guy wants to give him credit for

 
I realize it's not a huge play, but he does bulldoze the number one pick...Jake Long:

I'm a homer, but the kid can play. Not comparing him to Mario Williams but let's remember it takes more than a preseason (sometimes even longer) for a guy to get it.

 
I'm a big JEt fan and am willing to give the kid a mulligan this year - it takes time to develop especially in this defensw. I would like to see him as a situational pass rusher this year - if he doesn't look better next year then I would get worried. Gotta be patient with these kids - MArio Williams is a great example.

 
I've echoed the same things about DMC since January. If you don't know who Greg Cosell is then it might not be a bad idea to get acquainted with the man. The guy understands the game. It happens when you're one of the main men behind NFL Films for all these years.

The SEC may have some of the best athletes in college football, but success in the SEC does not predicate NFL success. The best 1% of all college athletes make the NFL and I'm not saying start or star in the NFL, simply make a roster or practice squad.

Think of it this way. If there were a league that was better than the NFL in the same way that the NFL was better than college football, the players chosen as all-pro in the NFL would be trying to compete for a roster spot.

I watched the college and preseason games. McFadden did not show the lateral skills Cosell describes he's looking for from a back. He demonstrated better ball control than he had in college, which is a testament to his work ethic because he fumbled way too much to be effective in the NFL if he didn't improve. Nor did I see McFadden show impressive power - he didn't really have the opportunity. I know some will argue this point and say they saw differently. But if you know how I define power, you'll understand that McFadden had very limited opportunities to demonstrate power running. When he did had a chance, the result wasn't what people claimed he can do. Oakland's line played well enough that he really didn't have a ton of chances to prove/disprove the debate about his skills.

Still, I wouldn't discount Cosell. I saw very much the same stuff after studying several games of McFadden's and broke down every play.

 
I'm a big JEt fan and am willing to give the kid a mulligan this year - it takes time to develop especially in this defensw. I would like to see him as a situational pass rusher this year - if he doesn't look better next year then I would get worried. Gotta be patient with these kids - MArio Williams is a great example.
Great point. Right around this same time his rookie season, and even throughout most of his first season, he was being labeled a bust as well and Houston was criticized ad nauseam for having passed on Bush. They sure look pretty smart now.
 
one man's opinion:

Dolphins beat Jets in the draft's first round

Last April the Dolphins used the first pick of the draft to select Jake Long. The New York Jets used their first round pick, the sixth pick overall, to select outside linebacker Vernon Gholston.

Advantage Dolphins!

While Long has come pretty much as advertised so far and will start at offensive left tackle for Miami in the regular-season opener, Gholston has not quite started so fast. In fact, he's been awful.

I had Michael Lombardi, a 20-year NFL personnel man with Oakland, Cleveland and other teams, on my radio show over the weekend. First of all, he doesn't think the Jets are going to be very good at all. He picked them fourth in the AFC East, behind New England, Buffalo and Miami.

And he hates Gholston.

This is what Lombardi wrote in the National Football Post after the Jets preseason finale against Philadelphia.

"I watched Gholston last night and he is not playing well right now. What is most alarming is his inability to come off the blocks without explosison or to play the game with any physicality. Coming out of college, he did not, in my opinion, have one-step quickness. he has to run his feet to generate power -- much like a boxer who needs to "wind up" to throw a punch. Gholston is a poor rusher, playing right into the lineman. As a dropper, he has no chance. If he is in coverage, he is a HUGE liability. The question the Jets should be asking themselves is, 'How are we going to dress him on Sunday?' He is not a special teams player and won't be on the field as a rusher with the defense. Difficult to imagine drafting aplayer with the sixth overall, he is not a quarterback, and he does not offer any help on Sunday."

Long, meanwhile, has met every expectation of the Dolphins coaching staff. He still needs to improve his technique but coaches are riding him hard to get that done. Head coach Tony Sparano, in particular, has been spending time with Long to get him better as quickly as possible.

He is not a Pro Bowl player now. But with some experience and some improved technique and some time, he has the makings. The Dolphins believe they hit paydirt with the guy.

The Jets with Gholston? Not so much.

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/
Basically, then, the Dolphins got to pick first, and the Jets got to pick 6th.....ADVANTAGE DOLPHINS! What brilliant insight. Reasoning that a guy is a bust before they have played one NFL snap is asinine. It's just some dude who had to write something for his worthless column one day.
To be fair, he didn't say either one is a bust... just that they look like they might be.
 
Gholston has struggled in camp, but shouldn't we let these guys play a few games first before talking like this?
Probably. But that's not really the point of the article. He's basically saying that there were red flags on both of these athletes which suggested their skill sets may not translate to the next level. In other words, it is a scouts job to notice things like this, to be able to 'know' ahead of time whether a player's game will translate to the NFL, and his premise is that the scouts missed the boat. He may in fact be wrong, but it doesn't mean what he's saying is entirely untrue - perhaps the shortcomings he points out are correctable and the players will make the necessary adjustments. And if they don't, perhaps they'll be busts as he projects.
 
one man's opinion:

Dolphins beat Jets in the draft's first round

Last April the Dolphins used the first pick of the draft to select Jake Long. The New York Jets used their first round pick, the sixth pick overall, to select outside linebacker Vernon Gholston.

Advantage Dolphins!

While Long has come pretty much as advertised so far and will start at offensive left tackle for Miami in the regular-season opener, Gholston has not quite started so fast. In fact, he's been awful.

I had Michael Lombardi, a 20-year NFL personnel man with Oakland, Cleveland and other teams, on my radio show over the weekend. First of all, he doesn't think the Jets are going to be very good at all. He picked them fourth in the AFC East, behind New England, Buffalo and Miami.

And he hates Gholston.

This is what Lombardi wrote in the National Football Post after the Jets preseason finale against Philadelphia.

"I watched Gholston last night and he is not playing well right now. What is most alarming is his inability to come off the blocks without explosison or to play the game with any physicality. Coming out of college, he did not, in my opinion, have one-step quickness. he has to run his feet to generate power -- much like a boxer who needs to "wind up" to throw a punch. Gholston is a poor rusher, playing right into the lineman. As a dropper, he has no chance. If he is in coverage, he is a HUGE liability. The question the Jets should be asking themselves is, 'How are we going to dress him on Sunday?' He is not a special teams player and won't be on the field as a rusher with the defense. Difficult to imagine drafting aplayer with the sixth overall, he is not a quarterback, and he does not offer any help on Sunday."

Long, meanwhile, has met every expectation of the Dolphins coaching staff. He still needs to improve his technique but coaches are riding him hard to get that done. Head coach Tony Sparano, in particular, has been spending time with Long to get him better as quickly as possible.

He is not a Pro Bowl player now. But with some experience and some improved technique and some time, he has the makings. The Dolphins believe they hit paydirt with the guy.

The Jets with Gholston? Not so much.

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/
This people just like having opinions. Anyone who is THAT SURE that he is smarter than all the paid scouts of a team after preseason might just be a windbag.
 
http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=453972

McFadden, Gholston have look of NFL busts

Posted: September 5, 2008

Few players selected in the 2008 NFL draft displayed better measurable skills than Arkansas running back Darren McFadden and Ohio State end/linebacker Vernon Gholston. Both ran fast at the NFL Scouting Combine in February, with McFadden clocking in at 4.33 seconds in the 40-yard dash and Gholston crossing the tape in less than 4.7 seconds, remarkable for a 266-pound man.

I could not wait to study both on tape, anticipating that I would be evaluating two players who would make immediate and long-term impacts in the NFL. In the case of McFadden, I was led to believe he was as good as, or even better than, the Vikings% Adrian Peterson, who led the NFC in rushing and shattered the NFL single-game rushing record in .

I watched game after game, eight in all, and struggled to find the attributes that would project McFadden as being a big success in the NFL. The key in assessing college players is not to be blinded by production but rather to have a strong understanding of the traits and attributes that translate to the NFL game.

Think of the top running backs in the NFL, players like Peterson, LaDainian Tomlinson, Brian Westbrook, Fred Taylor. Even though each has his own distinct style, one characteristic they all share is lateral agility and explosiveness. They each have an elusiveness, a shiftiness that makes it difficult for defenders to get clean hits. They have that wiggle, that "shake and bake" that allows them to make unblocked defenders miss in the open field.

Lateral quickness and explosiveness is an essential trait to be an elite NFL runner. Great runners create space with their quick feet and elusiveness. They change direction almost effortlessly, with a fluidity and smoothness that belies their dynamic quickness.

That%s far more important than straight-line speed, which has little to do with being a top-line NFL back. McFadden%s game is about downhill speed and acceleration. There is no question he is vertically explosive. He can run by people. And in Arkansas% version of the spread offense, with the wide splits by the offensive linemen and the defense stretched horizontally, McFadden at times was able to explode through gaping holes and simply outrun his pursuers.

But that%s all the tape showed.

He lacked lateral agility, that innate ability to change direction and create space, while at the same time avoiding contact. He did not exhibit great balance or body control. He was not a natural runner with instincts and vision, which really concerns me as he transitions to the power-based and zone-based running games that define the NFL.

McFadden also ran with a narrow base, showing little physicality for a man who weighs 211 pounds. In fact, he often stopped his feet when he anticipated taking a hit, rarely running through tackles. I was surprised at how easily he went down.

It was as if McFadden collapsed upon contact.

I have no doubt McFadden will produce some electrifying plays this season with the Raiders, but he does not possess the attributes that produce excellence, or even consistency, as a feature back in the NFL.

Gholston was chosen sixth in last April%s draft, two spots after McFadden. Gholston played defensive end at Ohio State, but the Jets project him as an outside linebacker in their 3-4 scheme. His size and speed profile was deemed the right combination for him to transition well to the NFL as an elite pass rusher.

A number of things struck me as I watched six Ohio State games on tape, and I did this after I witnessed his athletic feats at the NFL Combine. First, Gholston%s athleticism on the field, during games, did not match his off-field measurable skills. He did not play anywhere near as fast as he timed in the 40-yard dash.

In addition, his level of energy and effort varied from play to play, game to game. He did not come across on film as a consistent competitor, and that%s always a red flag. In fact, in three of the game tapes I broke down, I would not have known Gholston was on the field if not specifically watching him.

What made Gholston a tough evaluation was that he occasionally flashed the natural explosion off the snap and the burst and acceleration necessary to be an effective NFL edge rusher.

He was selectively explosive. He showed that against LSU in last year%s national championship game. He played with intensity and effort, and his athletic ability and physicality stood out.

But other than the sporadic pass rush, Gholston did not show the attributes demanded to play outside linebacker in a base 3-4 scheme. He lacked change-of-direction skills, and he did not show quick movement in the open field. And that really jumped out on film in preseason.

Sure, there is a steep learning curve in the NFL from a mental standpoint, and that can limit reaction time, but Gholston showed no stop-and-start skills and little athleticism in preseason games. He was slow and plodding.

Gholston looks like a street free agent.

He is a project as an NFL outside linebacker and a question mark as a pass rusher, even with his hand on the ground at defensive end.

Greg Cosell of NFL Films analyzes coaching tape and is executive producer of State Farm NFL Matchup. He is a frequent contributor to Sporting News.
I dont own McFadden in any league. But I doubt he is a bust. Raiders coaches didnt have much to complain about throughout training camp. If he is a Michael Vick type player, better headlines than what he is on the field, then so be it, he could be. But DMC will make his own splash stastically in the NFL from the word go. Not 1,000 yards in year one, few rookies do that, but i see solid production.
 
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Gotta love how the fantasy nerds know more about a players talents and skill level than a guy who "analyzes tapes" for NFL films. Give the guy some credit here.

 
I'm a big JEt fan and am willing to give the kid a mulligan this year - it takes time to develop especially in this defensw. I would like to see him as a situational pass rusher this year - if he doesn't look better next year then I would get worried. Gotta be patient with these kids - MArio Williams is a great example.
Great point. Right around this same time his rookie season, and even throughout most of his first season, he was being labeled a bust as well and Houston was criticized ad nauseam for having passed on Bush. They sure look pretty smart now.
Mario isn't a great general example for what you're talking about. The people who labeled him a bust tended to ignore completely the plantar fascitis injury that he played through his rookie year. An injury that is painful enough that many players won't play with it at all. If he'd just not played or gone on injured reserve I wager those same people probably would have been kinder to him and taken a wait and see approach. But since he played through it and was hampered by it, they labeled him a bust.But, there are other examples out there. Freeney, Strahan, etc, were guys who took a year or two to develop without, that I'm aware of, injury being involved.

If I was going to point at Mario as a possible parallel here, it would be that Mario was criticized for his lack of intensity during the games like Gholston is being criticized in the article. That was definitely one of the biggest concerns about him, that he only was dominant when he played weak offensive lines and that he just didn't have a drive to go out there and perform constantly.

I know from various comments from teammates and from Mario himself, that the Texans players go to lengths to keep his motivation at a high level and keep his effort up. He's had some interviews where he talked about how the rest of the D constantly stays on him to keep his energy level up. If Gholston has a similar issue, hopefully for him his team will recognize it and take similar steps. But I wouldn't gloss over the negative effect that can have on a player's output if he can't find a reason to keep it going.

 
Gholston has struggled in camp, but shouldn't we let these guys play a few games first before talking like this?
Probably. But that's not really the point of the article. He's basically saying that there were red flags on both of these athletes which suggested their skill sets may not translate to the next level. In other words, it is a scouts job to notice things like this, to be able to 'know' ahead of time whether a player's game will translate to the NFL, and his premise is that the scouts missed the boat. He may in fact be wrong, but it doesn't mean what he's saying is entirely untrue - perhaps the shortcomings he points out are correctable and the players will make the necessary adjustments. And if they don't, perhaps they'll be busts as he projects.
I could give you red flags on 2/3rds of the 1st round pick who I thought have the look of NFL busts and probably be right.
 
I cant believe someone would be so quick to label McFadden a potential bust. Or Gholston for that matter. Its as if this writer's is measuring their expectations against Gale Sayers and Lawrence Taylor.

What stands out to me about McFadden that I think will push that kid to a level at least close to greatness are his intangibles. Sure, he has great speed. But more importantly, he has confidence, determination, drive. Something you cant put a measure on. I want to call it heart, but its still just too early. I think the kid is determined to be great, and Im no Raiders fan nor a McFadden owner. Whether or not his lateral skills limit some of his elusiveness I wont argue, but you just cant measure a kid's heart. I think he has it. And I think he'll be solid at the very least.

Now Gholston is a bit of a different story. That kid's about as stiff a player as Ive seen in a long time. He's in desperate need of some ballet or yoga classes. And he needs to make them a regular part of his offseason routine. He flips his hips like Frankenstein. The guy's built like an Adonis, but at the OLB, youve gotta have more flexiblity that he's shown to this point. Its gonna take work, but I think he can improve that area of his game. But he's certainly not a natural "athlete". He's just a natural 'specimen'. There is a difference. But I cant write the guy off like he's never going to amount to anything. He just has to put in the work, understand his limitations, and address them. And again, there's no measuring a kid's heart or determination in these evalutations. If both of these guys want to be great, and get the help they need to be pushed in that direction, the sky's the limit.

 
I cant believe someone would be so quick to label McFadden a potential bust. Or Gholston for that matter. Its as if this writer's is measuring their expectations against Gale Sayers and Lawrence Taylor.

What stands out to me about McFadden that I think will push that kid to a level at least close to greatness are his intangibles. Sure, he has great speed. But more importantly, he has confidence, determination, drive. Something you cant put a measure on. I want to call it heart, but its still just too early. I think the kid is determined to be great, and Im no Raiders fan nor a McFadden owner. Whether or not his lateral skills limit some of his elusiveness I wont argue, but you just cant measure a kid's heart. I think he has it. And I think he'll be solid at the very least.

Now Gholston is a bit of a different story. That kid's about as stiff a player as Ive seen in a long time. He's in desperate need of some ballet or yoga classes. And he needs to make them a regular part of his offseason routine. He flips his hips like Frankenstein. The guy's built like an Adonis, but at the OLB, youve gotta have more flexiblity that he's shown to this point. Its gonna take work, but I think he can improve that area of his game. But he's certainly not a natural "athlete". He's just a natural 'specimen'. There is a difference. But I cant write the guy off like he's never going to amount to anything. He just has to put in the work, understand his limitations, and address them. And again, there's no measuring a kid's heart or determination in these evalutations. If both of these guys want to be great, and get the help they need to be pushed in that direction, the sky's the limit.
Well, I think McFadden reminds to many people of Reggie Bush, so he is expected to be dynamic on the field I guess, but not necessarily a 3 down back? And his legs are skinny like Jerious Norwood. And he runs in a straight line like cedric benson? Ok maybe he runs in a straight line like someone else, but still. Did you ever see a HEART score a touchdown? No! Thats why we are talking about his legs, and his running style. And he reminds me of an injury waiting to happen. But its called prospecting. As far as Gholsten goes......what a clutz....what were the Jets thinking.

 
I cant believe someone would be so quick to label McFadden a potential bust. Or Gholston for that matter. Its as if this writer's is measuring their expectations against Gale Sayers and Lawrence Taylor.

What stands out to me about McFadden that I think will push that kid to a level at least close to greatness are his intangibles. Sure, he has great speed. But more importantly, he has confidence, determination, drive. Something you cant put a measure on. I want to call it heart, but its still just too early. I think the kid is determined to be great, and Im no Raiders fan nor a McFadden owner. Whether or not his lateral skills limit some of his elusiveness I wont argue, but you just cant measure a kid's heart. I think he has it. And I think he'll be solid at the very least.

Now Gholston is a bit of a different story. That kid's about as stiff a player as Ive seen in a long time. He's in desperate need of some ballet or yoga classes. And he needs to make them a regular part of his offseason routine. He flips his hips like Frankenstein. The guy's built like an Adonis, but at the OLB, youve gotta have more flexiblity that he's shown to this point. Its gonna take work, but I think he can improve that area of his game. But he's certainly not a natural "athlete". He's just a natural 'specimen'. There is a difference. But I cant write the guy off like he's never going to amount to anything. He just has to put in the work, understand his limitations, and address them. And again, there's no measuring a kid's heart or determination in these evalutations. If both of these guys want to be great, and get the help they need to be pushed in that direction, the sky's the limit.
Well, I think McFadden reminds to many people of Reggie Bush, so he is expected to be dynamic on the field I guess, but not necessarily a 3 down back? And his legs are skinny like Jerious Norwood. And he runs in a straight line like cedric benson? Ok maybe he runs in a straight line like someone else, but still. Did you ever see a HEART score a touchdown? No! Thats why we are talking about his legs, and his running style. And he reminds me of an injury waiting to happen. But its called prospecting. As far as Gholsten goes......what a clutz....what were the Jets thinking.
Again, when Im looking at intangibles, Im looking more inside the guy's head. We can compare one RB to another until our heads spin. "This guy looks like that guy, that guy looks like this guy"....etc, etc. Bush likes alot of players. Bush didnt grow up in a Little Rock ghetto surrounded by gang bangers. You cant peer inside a guy's mind. Guts arent something that is measured in Indy. Sure, it doesnt score TDs as you point out, but I think it factors into success in a way youre not willing to acknowledge in your comments. And if you think heart and determination dont factor into a player's success, youre missing a seriously obvious point.
 
I guess more of what I was saying is that It is rare for heart to override physical attributes if a specific type. For instance, the little runningbacks are always called little, except alot of them do very well if they have some heart. MJD, Rice, L.Washington etc..... But all these little backs have other similar physical characteristics that I would argue boad well for a runningback. The same can be said for WR like S. Smith or Marvin Harrison. I do not think McFaddens physical attributes boad well for a runningback in the nfl. I can not actually recall someone built like McFadden, who runs like McFadden being a featured back, and overcomeing a non runningback type body to do so through heart. Heart certainly compliments the less than ideal physical speciman, but generally only so far as their body can take them.

Case in point Chad Pennington: Got the raw end of the physical attributes best suited to play QB. Full of heart and brains. He turned out to be an adequate to mediocre QB with intangibles that win NFL games but not FF games. I think Bush can be placed in a similar boat. And based on his build, id lean towards McFadden heading in that direction as well.

But there's always a first.

 
I guess more of what I was saying is that It is rare for heart to override physical attributes if a specific type. For instance, the little runningbacks are always called little, except alot of them do very well if they have some heart. MJD, Rice, L.Washington etc..... But all these little backs have other similar physical characteristics that I would argue boad well for a runningback. The same can be said for WR like S. Smith or Marvin Harrison. I do not think McFaddens physical attributes boad well for a runningback in the nfl. I can not actually recall someone built like McFadden, who runs like McFadden being a featured back, and overcomeing a non runningback type body to do so through heart. Heart certainly compliments the less than ideal physical speciman, but generally only so far as their body can take them. Case in point Chad Pennington: Got the raw end of the physical attributes best suited to play QB. Full of heart and brains. He turned out to be an adequate to mediocre QB with intangibles that win NFL games but not FF games. I think Bush can be placed in a similar boat. And based on his build, id lean towards McFadden heading in that direction as well. But there's always a first.
First, if we're comparing the RB measureable of choice to the QB measureable of choice it would probably be a RB's speed to a QB's arm strength. And we all know CP's arm was 'weak' by NFL Q standards. But it was Pennington's inability to stay healthy that has been his downfall, moreso than arm strength. The guy's more or less been a significant winner while he's been on the field. There have been plenty of Qs that have made it in the league with his measureables. But the guy has played a full season once in his career, and for whatever reason, just had tough luck when it came to staying healthy. He's the exact opposite of Favre, Brady and Manning in that regard. You cant help the team when youre not on the field. But I recognize his physical limitations with regards to arm stength. I just dont see that as his primary career limitation. McFadden will need to stay healthy. Sure, we all recognize the skinny legs. He's not built like a prototypical back. And I myself have been critical about that. But shapes and sizes. They come in all types. Marcus Allen and Eric Dickerson looked nothing like Emmitt Smith and Barry Sanders. What most of these great players have in common are their instincts. Not just their speed or their body type. But the ability for a RB to stay healthy depends on that guy's instincts almost as much as pure luck. The risk to take that unavoidable injury will always be there for each of these guys. But the great ones typically avoid the crushing hits more often than the lesser guys, and they know when to cut their losses when things look bleak. Barry Sanders took more losses on run plays than anyone Ive ever seen. He picked his spots like no other. But he was hard to hit. As was Marshall Faulk. He was a tough guy to consistently get clean hits on. Instincts. McFadden has survived in the toughest college football conference in America for 3 years putting up massive #s without suffering much in the way of injury. With skinny legs. Some guys have that measure of luck, instincts and heart that others simply dont have. Would I rather he have the legs of Ronnie Brown or Ricky Williams? Sure. But those guys are clear evidence that leg size doesnt make a great back.
 
Jets fans have to be worried about Gholston, he's clearly been a notable disappointment among the high 1st round picks. I don't think I heard one local report from beat writers or the coaches which indicate he's ready to contribute in a big way this year. While that's in no way an indication of his long-term value, it does illustrate that he's got a lot of work to do to live up to his high draft position and contract.

As to McFadden, I have been skeptical of him from jump street. That said, he's looked quite good in the preseason and the Raiders are certainly going to make him an offensive focal point. Getting on the field is the first step toward proving you're not a bust. McFadden is taking that step, Gholston is not.

 
It's amazing how many people have such a problem with what he tried to do here.

I don't understand it. Personally, I find it refreshing as he seems to be basing it on his own observations rather than some kind of bias or shock value attention he is going after.

 
First, just because scouts see enough to draft someone does not mean that nobody has the right to look at film and be critical of the so called paid experts

Second, it is early to say that the guys will be busts, however, I don't think anyone can say they are happier when their 1st round pick isn't looking great already. In fact, it is a little disappointing when they are not flashing much.

 
I don't think anyone can say they are happier when their 1st round pick isn't looking great already. In fact, it is a little disappointing when they are not flashing much.
But that's the thing (with McFadden), he has looked great all pre-season, practice and games, showing the things Cosell said were "missing" from his 8 game sample. That's the problem I have with the article. Sounds like he's borrowing trouble just to have something to talk about. I won't argue McFadden's unideal BMI or "skinny" legs - those are still valid doubts about his long term success.
 
Mimo said:
He lacked lateral agility, that innate ability to change direction and create space, while at the same time avoiding contact. He did not exhibit great balance or body control. He was not a natural runner with instincts and vision, which really concerns me as he transitions to the power-based and zone-based running games that define the NFL.
I know it's just preseason, but I saw McFadden display all these things on numerous carries. Maybe Mr. Cosell needs to see more tape?
In addition, if the guy watched any tapes of him at Arkansas, he displayed lateral agility, ability to change direction and create space...and avoided contact often.
 
Mimo said:
He lacked lateral agility, that innate ability to change direction and create space, while at the same time avoiding contact. He did not exhibit great balance or body control. He was not a natural runner with instincts and vision, which really concerns me as he transitions to the power-based and zone-based running games that define the NFL.
I know it's just preseason, but I saw McFadden display all these things on numerous carries. Maybe Mr. Cosell needs to see more tape?
In addition, if the guy watched any tapes of him at Arkansas, he displayed lateral agility, ability to change direction and create space...and avoided contact often.
I'm sure he's seen twice as many tapes of him than you have, guy. Sorry.
 
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Mimo said:
He lacked lateral agility, that innate ability to change direction and create space, while at the same time avoiding contact. He did not exhibit great balance or body control. He was not a natural runner with instincts and vision, which really concerns me as he transitions to the power-based and zone-based running games that define the NFL.
I know it's just preseason, but I saw McFadden display all these things on numerous carries. Maybe Mr. Cosell needs to see more tape?
In addition, if the guy watched any tapes of him at Arkansas, he displayed lateral agility, ability to change direction and create space...and avoided contact often.
I'm sure he's seen twice as many tapes of him than you have, guy. Sorry.
I might have to bet on Sho'Nuff:
I [Cosell] watched game after game, eight in all,
 
Jets fans have to be worried about Gholston, he's clearly been a notable disappointment among the high 1st round picks. I don't think I heard one local report from beat writers or the coaches which indicate he's ready to contribute in a big way this year. While that's in no way an indication of his long-term value, it does illustrate that he's got a lot of work to do to live up to his high draft position and contract.As to McFadden, I have been skeptical of him from jump street. That said, he's looked quite good in the preseason and the Raiders are certainly going to make him an offensive focal point. Getting on the field is the first step toward proving you're not a bust. McFadden is taking that step, Gholston is not.
I can't disagree with some of this. As a Jets fan would I love to hear, "Ghloston looking like a freak" or "Gholston making play." Of course. The kid is pretty raw. He has not played on the defensive side for more than a few years, since his senior year in hs. I knew that when they drafted him, so I figured it would take him some time to develop into a playmaker. He has not been a dissapointment, not yet. When the midway point of the season rolls around I will likely make another assessment, one with more substance given hell have some games under his belt. I am not so much arguing against the writer of the article as I am saying that labeling him as a bust, ie: "what were the Jets thinking" is just not fair at this point.
 
R Dizzle said:
I stopped reading after "McFadden, Gholston have look of NFL busts."
Sure. Why tolerate any criticism of your hero anyway?
Well considering I've been watching him since high school, yeah I may be a little bias but most of what he says is false. I don't hold him(McFadden) high an mighty above all else like I'm sure you are assuming. But how can I not defend someone I feel that this writer is wrong about? Although I think he has a more accurate opinion of Gholston than McFadden I assume he is trying to stir up fans to read his article.
 
I've echoed the same things about DMC since January. If you don't know who Greg Cosell is then it might not be a bad idea to get acquainted with the man. The guy understands the game. It happens when you're one of the main men behind NFL Films for all these years.

The SEC may have some of the best athletes in college football, but success in the SEC does not predicate NFL success. The best 1% of all college athletes make the NFL and I'm not saying start or star in the NFL, simply make a roster or practice squad.

Think of it this way. If there were a league that was better than the NFL in the same way that the NFL was better than college football, the players chosen as all-pro in the NFL would be trying to compete for a roster spot.

I watched the college and preseason games. McFadden did not show the lateral skills Cosell describes he's looking for from a back. He demonstrated better ball control than he had in college, which is a testament to his work ethic because he fumbled way too much to be effective in the NFL if he didn't improve. Nor did I see McFadden show impressive power - he didn't really have the opportunity. I know some will argue this point and say they saw differently. But if you know how I define power, you'll understand that McFadden had very limited opportunities to demonstrate power running. When he did had a chance, the result wasn't what people claimed he can do. Oakland's line played well enough that he really didn't have a ton of chances to prove/disprove the debate about his skills.

Still, I wouldn't discount Cosell. I saw very much the same stuff after studying several games of McFadden's and broke down every play.
:wall: My thoughts

He might end up being great and I know that guys I trust like Bloom and Chaos Commish think so. But he really doesn't look as good on tape as I thought he would.

 

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