Mr. Littlejeans
Footballguy
Per the Pittsburgh Gazette.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
McLouth traded to the Braves (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Mr. Littlejeans
- Start date
Mr. Littlejeans
Footballguy
3 prospects coming back, none of whom are Hanson. Medlen?
http://community.post-gazette.com/blogs/pb...to-atlanta.aspx
http://community.post-gazette.com/blogs/pb...to-atlanta.aspx
Mr. Littlejeans
Footballguy
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/news/article...sp&c_id=atl
Gorkys Hernandez, Jeff Locke, and Charlie Morton.
ETA: Oof, these guys suck.
Gorkys Hernandez, Jeff Locke, and Charlie Morton.
ETA: Oof, these guys suck.
Last edited by a moderator:
Hoos First
Footballguy
Andrew McCutchen time?
Mr. Littlejeans
Footballguy
The Steelers are pretty good.
NY/NJMFDIVER
Footballguy
How do you not get Hanson in this deal?
they have one big pile of mediocre in pitt. Shame with that ballpark.
they have one big pile of mediocre in pitt. Shame with that ballpark.
Mr. Littlejeans
Footballguy
6 years of Hanson is worth more than 2.5-ish years of McLouth. That said, they should've gotten Medlen at least.ETA: It is a brutal franchise, and a lovely ballpark. I imagine Pittsburgh folks are disavowing the Pirates the way Detroit fans disavow the Lions.
Last edited by a moderator:
Mr. Littlejeans
Footballguy
And the Braves have his club option for 2012. 3.5 years of McLouth for a grab bag of ####. Amazing.
Mr. Littlejeans
Footballguy
They think the guys they're getting in return are good. They're idiots.This might be worse than the Harden trade.
MAC_32
Footballguy
He's not going to be a 20-20 guy in Atlanta...but, yes, this was Dave Littlefield-esque.I'd apologize to Pirates fans, but you're also Steeler and Pens fans. I don't sympathize.
yep...It looka like that time
Buckfast 1
Footballguy
I can't believe this past 24 hours for the Braves. It's been the most exciting 24 hours as a Braves fan in several years. 12th inning comeback win against the Cubs, releasing Tom Glavine, trading for Nate McLouth, and calling up Tommy Hanson in one day?!
A player like McLouth is exactly what the Braves needed to compete in the NL. It's amazing that they were able to get him for a handful of decent but by no means elite prospects. Great trade for the Braves.
A player like McLouth is exactly what the Braves needed to compete in the NL. It's amazing that they were able to get him for a handful of decent but by no means elite prospects. Great trade for the Braves.
Last edited by a moderator:
pettifogger
Footballguy
Pirates acquired outfielder Gorkys Hernandez, RHP Charlie Morton and LHP Jeff Locke in exchange for outfielder Nate McLouth.
Hernandez, the Braves' fourth-ranked prospect heading into the season, is a plus defender with speed, but he's almost completely without power. To his credit, he's holding his own at .316/.361/.387 in his first taste of Double-A this season. Hernandez will have to improve his plate discipline to make it as a lead-off hitting centerfielder.
Not much of a haul for a starting CF who won a gold glove, 26 homers, and is under contract for 3+ years.
Hernandez, the Braves' fourth-ranked prospect heading into the season, is a plus defender with speed, but he's almost completely without power. To his credit, he's holding his own at .316/.361/.387 in his first taste of Double-A this season. Hernandez will have to improve his plate discipline to make it as a lead-off hitting centerfielder.
Not much of a haul for a starting CF who won a gold glove, 26 homers, and is under contract for 3+ years.
comfortably numb
Footballguy
WTF, is this collusion??
eagles2007
Footballguy
maybe there's a second deal in the works where we get a big haul for ian snell. that would make it all fair.
thats great...
RedRaiders
Mr. +EV
LOL at this trade after they actually got him to sign an extension last season. F'n Braves. What the ####.
Wrigley
Footballguy
It wouldn't hurt.
pollardsvision
Footballguy
I assume this is all about money.McLouth is making $2.5 million/year. They could've shipped Nyger Morgan out (or down) to make room for McCutcheon, but he's only making $400K. From a baseball standpoint, this trade makes no sense. I've seen the stands at PIT games, that front office has to be fired up about unloading a "monster" $2.5 mill. salary.If I were a Pirate fan, this would be a tough pill to swallow.I certainly wouldn't be in a hurry to buy your McCutheon or Alvarez jerseys. They'll be useless to you pretty quickly.
Last edited by a moderator:
This isn't as bad as when they told the Cubs they would take less for Lofton if they also took Ramierez, but this looks really bad. They are even talking about any of these guys as possible stars. They gave up a star for three guys who have "the potential to be above average". The GM's words not mine. You don't win without stars on your team.
A
awesomeness
Guest
If McCutchen, Morgan, Hernandez all start in the same game at some point, that would have to contend for the least amount of power out of a outfield trio.
Mr. Littlejeans
Footballguy
Yeah, the word "contraction" ran through my mind earlier today. What's the ####### point? Let HS teams and local colleges play in the park, and rent it out for concerts. Everyone only cares about the Steelers there anyway.
eagles2007
Footballguy
the problem with trading mclouth is he's one of the top 2 or 3 power hitters in the pirates lineup. they really are going to struggle to hit HRs in the next few years unless alvarez becomes a 40 HR guy. i actually like morgan and what he's brought to the team. he's outhitting mclouth by a lot for average. if i read about mclouth's gold glove 1 more time i may puke. he's an overrated CF. perhaps this a bit of a sell high kind of thing. remember, 15 months ago mclouth had to beat out chris duffy just to win the starting job. so after 1 good season, he's gone ... the return could turn out good, it could turn out to suck. let's give it time. obviously, today, this looks like a steal for the braves. but who knows what we'll be saying in 5 years?
Mr. Littlejeans
Footballguy
Sell high? They traded him for dog####.
eagles2007
Footballguy
have you ever seen any of these guys play?
Mr. Littlejeans
Footballguy
No. And I've never seen Mickey Mantle play, either.
apalmer
Footballguy
When the GM defends the deal by claiming all three guys have a "ceiling to be above-average major-league players", I don't have to see them play. If "above-average" is their CEILING, none are going to be stars, and most likely they'll be "average" major leaguers. For that, you trade a yong guy with speed, power and defense (go ahead and puke, but apparently a lot of people who know what they're talking about decided he was good enough to win a Gold Glove), who's already an All-Star and who just signed an extension. By aiming for mediocrity, the Pirates pretty much ensure that they'll hit their target. I may never go to PNC again.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Pirates front office has sucked since Sid Thrift was fired in the early 90s but that is not the whole problem.MLB is seriously broken -- there needs to be a salary cap and minimum as well as some form of revenue sharing. Until that happens the Pirates will be lousy because there is no incentive for them to get better. They put out a lousy product but they are making money. Sure they could spend a little more and perhaps flirt with .500 but they would probably lose money in the process. Every year they trade away their best players and usually get little in return except prospects. Whatever prospects that do pan out will be traded within a year or two.It sucks to be a Pirates fan
apalmer
Footballguy
But I'm discovering being an ex-Pirates fan isn't bad (now 13 hours and counting with that status).[it sucks to be a Pirates fan
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
I'm writing a letter to them. That should change thingsBut I'm discovering being an ex-Pirates fan isn't bad (now 13 hours and counting with that status).[it sucks to be a Pirates fan
. Although it sucks to be a Pirates fan, thankfully it does not suck to be a Pittsburgh sports fan. I look at it this way.........if there is one season that I would want free from sports, it would be summer. Lots of other things to enjoy other than baseball.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
It all comes down to winning. If the Pirates ever became competitive PNC would be filled. All you have to do is look at the Penguns and Pitt basektball where game tickets are as tough to come by as Steelers tickets.
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
It all comes down to winning. If the Pirates ever became competitive PNC would be filled. All you have to do is look at the Penguns and Pitt basektball where game tickets are as tough to come by as Steelers tickets.
If I could guarantee one Pittsburgh team a championship for next year, it would be the Pirates and it wouldn't be close. The Steelers have won enough already.......I need some new excitement.
Brock Middlebrook
Footballguy
It seems Medlen would have been fair
trading two guys who turned out a bit better than expected....
The Pirates didn't want Glavine?
trading two guys who turned out a bit better than expected....
The Pirates didn't want Glavine?
Steelers4Life
Footballguy
I'm a Pirates fan, and I really do like this trade.
I think we tend to overrate our players on the Pirates. Jack Wilson is a prime example... he's a very, very mediocre if not poor hitting shortstop with a nice glove, yet we rate him highly because we have no replacement. Just because Nate was the #3 hitter and most productive bat in our lineup doesn't mean he's THAT good a player. He'll be a leadoff guy or #2 hitter for the Braves, I'd guess. He's a consistent player who only became relevant about a year and a half ago. I love the guy... plays hard, hits well, fields well... but the bottom line is that a team like the Pirates will only win when players from the minors come up and contribute. The Pirates have very little on the way, so keeping a core like Doumit, McClouth, and Maholm isn't going to win anything. Kudos to management for seeing that.
Doumit is a solid catcher and Maholm is at best a #3 starter on a decent team and a back end guy on a contending team. These are only building blocks for teams like the Pirates.
Gorkys is a really dynamic leadoff hitting type who at 21 still has time to develop a better approach at the plate and a little bit of power. It doesn't make TOO much sense given that they have McCutchen to man center field, but perhaps he'll be a better version of what Nyger Morgan provides as a leadoff man down the line.
Charlie Morton has been very successfull in AAA the past 2 years, and if people want to focus on how his first taste of the majors went last year fine. Lots of pitchers struggle when they first make it up. He's not a superstar, but the Pirates severely lack internal options to stick into the rotation and he'll be an immediate upgrade over Karstens at a minimum the second he's activated. He could be a mainstay in the rotation if he does well, and that wouldn't be a bad thing.
And Locke is a hard throwing lefty with control problems - like most young lefties do. He's a very good prospect to get as presumably the 3rd piece in a 3 player package.
Taken as a whole, it's a nice package of talent. If Pirates fans let go of the fact that Nate was the best hitter in the lineup and value him for what he is, it's really not bad value for him at all. NO WAY was he worth guys like Hanson or Heyward, although I wish they'd have tried to get Freeman. The ownership group is finally committed to winning from within, by trading players at peak value, and by spending money in the draft and on player development.
This is surely not the same old Pirates. This is the first year I'm actually encouraged by the direction ownership is going... it started last year, and it's continuing.
I think we tend to overrate our players on the Pirates. Jack Wilson is a prime example... he's a very, very mediocre if not poor hitting shortstop with a nice glove, yet we rate him highly because we have no replacement. Just because Nate was the #3 hitter and most productive bat in our lineup doesn't mean he's THAT good a player. He'll be a leadoff guy or #2 hitter for the Braves, I'd guess. He's a consistent player who only became relevant about a year and a half ago. I love the guy... plays hard, hits well, fields well... but the bottom line is that a team like the Pirates will only win when players from the minors come up and contribute. The Pirates have very little on the way, so keeping a core like Doumit, McClouth, and Maholm isn't going to win anything. Kudos to management for seeing that.
Doumit is a solid catcher and Maholm is at best a #3 starter on a decent team and a back end guy on a contending team. These are only building blocks for teams like the Pirates.
Gorkys is a really dynamic leadoff hitting type who at 21 still has time to develop a better approach at the plate and a little bit of power. It doesn't make TOO much sense given that they have McCutchen to man center field, but perhaps he'll be a better version of what Nyger Morgan provides as a leadoff man down the line.
Charlie Morton has been very successfull in AAA the past 2 years, and if people want to focus on how his first taste of the majors went last year fine. Lots of pitchers struggle when they first make it up. He's not a superstar, but the Pirates severely lack internal options to stick into the rotation and he'll be an immediate upgrade over Karstens at a minimum the second he's activated. He could be a mainstay in the rotation if he does well, and that wouldn't be a bad thing.
And Locke is a hard throwing lefty with control problems - like most young lefties do. He's a very good prospect to get as presumably the 3rd piece in a 3 player package.
Taken as a whole, it's a nice package of talent. If Pirates fans let go of the fact that Nate was the best hitter in the lineup and value him for what he is, it's really not bad value for him at all. NO WAY was he worth guys like Hanson or Heyward, although I wish they'd have tried to get Freeman. The ownership group is finally committed to winning from within, by trading players at peak value, and by spending money in the draft and on player development.
This is surely not the same old Pirates. This is the first year I'm actually encouraged by the direction ownership is going... it started last year, and it's continuing.
pollardsvision
Footballguy
I might be inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt if it weren't the Pirates. I have a hard time believing the Pirates will come out looking like sharks in this.I guess it's possible they just didn't believe in McLouth long-term, but I doubt that's what this is about. This was a salary dump. A depressing $2.5 mill. salary dump. Otherwise, there was no reason to trade him away with so much time remaining on the contract.Young power doesn't come cheap. They just gave some away because the modest price was too much for them.I did see Gorkys play once when he was with Myrtle Beach. I have no idea how good he was, but he seemed fast. I'm assuming he's a poor man's McCutcheon.It looks like the Pirates are trying to, for the long-term, surround Alvarez and McCutcheon with a bunch of average players. I guess that could work if they find a way to keep them around. Maybe they find a way to pull an Evan Longoria. I wouldn't expect it, but I doubt many expected the Rays to pull that off either.
Comer
Footballguy
Godsbrother
Footballguy
McClouth is only 27 years old and they had him signed for 4 years. I guess you are telling me that Pirate fans have to sit through another 4 years of losing before this latest 5-year plan begins to show fruit? Great...I even question the timing of the trade -- why not wait a bit and let contending teams drive up the price a little? The Pirates have been the laughing stock of the league for 17 years for good reason -- they are the Detroit Lions of baseball.Steelers4Life said:
You are overrating the guys they are getting back. Morton isn't considered a top prospect at all. He is projected as a 5th starter. Hernandez has no power at all. He will have to hit .330 to be worth anything. Locke is a long way off. McLouth was an All-Star last year. He hit 26 hr's and led the league in doubles. I can't see that any of the pieces they got back have even the potential to match him as a player. It wouldn't even shock me a little if none of them contribute anything ever at the major league level.Steelers4Life said:
I had planned to take my dad to a game later this sumemr when I was back in town, but I no longer think I will inflict that on him.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
McClouth is the kind of player they should be acquiring, not getting rid of. This trade makes absolutely no sense other than to reduce payroll and maximize profits. I understand that it is a business but don't hand me a plate of dog$$$$ and tell me it is filet mignon.The Pirates moto this year is laughable: Pride, Passion. How proud can you be in the midst of your 17th consecutive losing season and how much passion can your team have when you trade their best players, every friggin' year?
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Dad isn't a fan of fireworks or bobble heads?
