Meachem over Bowe for at least one reason (1 Viewer)

[Sidewinder]

.... And, the more likely scenario is that Henderson will be gone next year. He is a better slot WR than an everydown WR.

Henderson rarely lines up in the slot; in 3WR formations, Colston is almost exclusively in the slot.

I said all along of the top 6 or so WRs that Meachem was the top candidate to bust

Say what you want about King, Meachem gained almost 20 pounds after the Combine

What the ... ?

I think the rookie who's made the worst first impression in the three weeks since draft day, easily, is New Orleans wide receiver Robert Meachem. How on God's green earth can a rook be 19 pounds overweight at the team's first mini-camp? And what kinds of red flags must that send up to the coaching staff and front office about to make the man a jillionaire? "I think I had like nine [pre-draft] visits to teams,'' Meachem said after injuring an ankle at the Saints' minicamp last week. "And every visit they gave you a big old meal. I tried to work out when I could, but I don't think I got enough workouts in.'' Uh-oh.

Colston also showed out of shape for his rookie season in New Orleans, and he didn't do too bad.

Link...no one had to prod the Saints' second-year receiver to call first-round draft choice Robert Meachem after Colston noticed his new teammate suffering through the opening sessions of rookie camp.

...

"I saw him struggling a little bit, and it's not like I don't know that feeling," Colston said.

After spraining his ankle during the second day of rookie camp, Meachem sat in a room with reporters, berating himself publicly for being out of shape and generally performing below his expectations. He also mentioned that Colston had called him twice to advise him on how to deal with it.

Colston said he told Meachem that "there's going to be ups and downs. You just try to keep an even keel. It's a long season. It's a rough season."

"You've got a good group of guys around (Meachem) that's going to keep him straight, so he should be all right," Colston added.

When Meachem got to practice with veterans for the first time several days ago, he leaned on Colston for advice of a more technical nature.

"I ask him a lot of questions," Meachem said. "When I don't understand something, sometimes coach will be yelling at somebody else, so I ask one of the veterans, 'What should you do on this certain route?"'

...

Payton said he was pleased to see Colston taking it upon himself to help Meachem adjust to the NFL.

"We've got players that aren't selfish and that want to help the team. So whether that's a guy like Deuce (McAllister) helping a young running back or Marques helping a young receiver or Brees helping a young quarterback, I think that exists on our team, and that's something that's important," Payton said. "And certainly, the leadership on your team doesn't just have to come from players with a lot of years in the league."

...

 

[Chaos Commish]

I'll stand by my preference for Bowe based on believing his chance of being WR1 is strong and that is the best odds for clear fantasy value in the discussion. But honestly, none of us can be sure either way.

 

[yortstop]

Im by no means an expert and very little knowledge of these two guys but can forsee pretty like numbers from the two when all said and done....also can see by the end of the year with Colston and Meachem having similar ydg but Coston getting bulk of the td's. JMO

 

[The Jacket]

Bowe over Meachem for at least one reason (well, maybe two)... he's not softer than a new-born baby's arsecheek and he might actually stay healthy for a few months in his career.

Saints receiver Meachem out 4-6 weeks Click here to find out more!

NFL.com wire reports

METAIRIE, La. (June 6, 2007) -- Saints first-round draft choice Robert Meachem has had a rough first month as a pro.

Coach Sean Payton says it's better that he goes through it now than during the season.

Meachem will spend the next month to six weeks rehabilitating his right knee following an arthroscopic procedure to clean out loose cartilage and repair his medial meniscus.

This comes after he showed up for rookie camp -- in his own and Payton's evaluation -- overweight and out of shape, then sprained his left ankle.

"I kind of feel discouraged a little bit because I want to show the coaches what I can do and you can't show them what you can do when you're hurt," Meachem said. "For me, it's going to be a time I've got to keep praying and just stay focused -- don't let the knee injury get to me."

The Saints knew Meachem had undergone surgery on the same knee in 2003, when he sat out a season as a medical redshirt for Tennessee. But Payton said there was no evidence in medical reports that team officials saw or in Meachem's performance at the NFL's scouting combine in Indianapolis that Meachem had any serious problems.

"We were completely on page from what we saw from his combine medical records and charts and if we felt like it was going to be something that was going to be real serious, obviously we would have taken that into account," Payton said. "But the type of procedure he had done, it's not going to hamper him in the future. If it was something more serious, you wouldn't be looking at that type of rehabilitation time" of six weeks or less.

Meachem stayed in New Orleans for the procedure, which was performed June 5 by team physician Dr. Timothy Finney.

Meachem said he thought he was fully healthy when he arrived in New Orleans after playing the past three seasons at Tennessee. Four years ago, doctors never gave Meachem the impression his right knee would need maintenance as time passed following the initial surgery.

"They never told me they were going to have to redo anything. They just told me they repaired it and I wouldn't have arthritis," Meachem said. "I thought I was perfectly healthy and ready to go."

Meachem, who has worked hard at conditioning and losing weight at Saints headquarters since he recovered from his sprained ankle, said the knee soreness came on gradually. It didn't become debilitating until the second day of last weekend's minicamp.

"I don't know how I did it. I don't know when I did it. I just know that it flared up," Meachem said. "My knee was swelling up and then all of a sudden, two days ago, it was killing me to sleep. I really wasn't getting any rest."

Payton said the swelling might have gone down with rest and surgery may not have been necessary, but that operating was the best option with training camp more than a month away.

Players are expected to report -- likely at Millsaps College in Jackson, Miss., but possibly at team headquarters in Metairie -- on July 25, with the first practice on July 26.

"The approach we've taken is to be smart about it," Payton said. "It was something we felt like we could have managed ... and at the same time, just with the soreness he had, we thought it was better to quickly go in and clean it up. ... From a rehabilitation standpoint, the timeframe we're looking at is real conducive to getting him back in camp so he doesn't miss any time at all.

"I didn't want it to be a nagging problem," Payton added. "The doctors felt real good about what they saw prior to doing the scope and I think we all felt like it was best to do it now. When his rehabilitation's over, it won't be a lingering issue. It will be something that can be 100 percent and cleaned up."

Saints special teams standout Steve Gleason will be out for at least two months after having microfracture surgery on his right knee.

Gleason is expected to be ready to practice about a week after training camp opens in late July.

Now in the last year of his contract, Gleason, 30, has four blocked punts since 2002. He's best remembered for his last block, which occurred early in the Saints' first game at the newly renovated Louisiana Superdome since Hurricane Katrina. The block was recovered for a touchdown in the Saints' victory over Atlanta on Monday Night Football.

 

[ebcpastor2004]

Payton said he was pleased to see Colston taking it upon himself to help Meachem adjust to the NFL.

"We've got players that aren't selfish and that want to help the team. So whether that's a guy like Deuce (McAllister) helping a young running back or Marques helping a young receiver or Brees helping a young quarterback, I think that exists on our team, and that's something that's important," Payton said. "And certainly, the leadership on your team doesn't just have to come from players with a lot of years in the league."

...

Just had to say this-- it's a team like this that can accomplish good things. Good, Unselfish players + good team chemistry + a good coach = championship (one day, & maybe more than one )

 

[RD1967]

I said all along of the top 6 or so WRs that Meachem was the top candidate to bust

Say what you want about King, Meachem gained almost 20 pounds after the Combine

What the ... ?

I think the rookie who's made the worst first impression in the three weeks since draft day, easily, is New Orleans wide receiver Robert Meachem. How on God's green earth can a rook be 19 pounds overweight at the team's first mini-camp? And what kinds of red flags must that send up to the coaching staff and front office about to make the man a jillionaire? "I think I had like nine [pre-draft] visits to teams,'' Meachem said after injuring an ankle at the Saints' minicamp last week. "And every visit they gave you a big old meal. I tried to work out when I could, but I don't think I got enough workouts in.'' Uh-oh.

Bowe Owners Beware

I don't care that much for Bowe either...Contstrux...

I like Bowe. Meachem will bomb.

He did a great Maurice Stovall at the Senior Bowl, but he has a real problem with drops. Oddly, he's a good hands catcher but lacks the very important ability, that is so often disregarded as bad form, to catch the ball against his body. Some passes (many passes) dictate the ball be caught with less than perfect extended hands and the great receivers suck those in. They bounce off Bowe.

Watch Meachem, he is almost afraid to catch the ball, Jarret is a bit slow but I'll take the tough over the middle guy with better hands.

 

[RD1967]

I completely acknowledge Meachem's bust risk, but he'll have to be downright horrible for the next 15 months to not be starting in 2008. Henderson is just not reliable and his contract will be up. Copper is nothing more than a slot receiver. Henderson, Horn, and Copper combined for over 1800 yards last year. Even if you projection some deflation into the passing offense, and solid number for the #3, the #2 WR in that offense has to be a 1000 yard guy assuming 16 games, with upside to spare.

Sorry to disagree with ya, its going to be McNight starting over Meach. A little rough around the edges but a far greater football talent. I dont care who got drafted in what round, the Saints blew the Meach pick and then made up for it by picking McNight in the 7th. With all the pre-draft hype before the draft, even a good team like NO can fumble the pick, too many scouts running with the herd.

 

[Sleeper 43]

All fantasy variables aside I find Bowe more proven and consistent without having any less upside than Meachem. The fact that Bowe could see more individual targets yet is in a less powerful offense than Meachems, I think off-sets each other for the most part anyway. In Dynasty, I try to put more of an emphasis on the individual because, contracts/trades/coaching/O-line can change at any time. In a redraft, different story.

Meachem is a streaky player with 1 year at Tenn under his belt. And now all this injury and being out of shape doesnt help. Despite Meachems speed I dont see much wiggle and RAC.

Bowe I find to be all great all around player. Big frame , adequate speed, plays angry, isnt just a red-zone threat.

 

[Thom Yorke]

I completely acknowledge Meachem's bust risk, but he'll have to be downright horrible for the next 15 months to not be starting in 2008. Henderson is just not reliable and his contract will be up. Copper is nothing more than a slot receiver. Henderson, Horn, and Copper combined for over 1800 yards last year. Even if you projection some deflation into the passing offense, and solid number for the #3, the #2 WR in that offense has to be a 1000 yard guy assuming 16 games, with upside to spare.

Sorry to disagree with ya, its going to be McNight starting over Meach. A little rough around the edges but a far greater football talent. I dont care who got drafted in what round, the Saints blew the Meach pick and then made up for it by picking McNight in the 7th. With all the pre-draft hype before the draft, even a good team like NO can fumble the pick, too many scouts running with the herd.

McKnight was undrafted.

 

[Toads]

Warpig,

If we're gonna add all the recievers in the mix, who would you rather compete against for catches:

Bush (88)

Colston (70)

Henderson (32)

McAllister (30)

Copper (23)

Stecker (19)

Karney (15)

or

Gonzo (73)

Kennison (53)

LJ (41)

Parker (41)

Wilson (15)

Bennett (9)

Webb (3)

Unless you think Colston and Bush are both busts, Meachum has no chance of being the Saints #1 recieving option in the next 5-7 years (maybe even longer). At best he's looking at #3 option. However, Gonzo is 31, Kennison is 34. Within the next two years Bowe could be the #2 option in KC behind Gonzo. In 3-4 years he could be the #1 option.

ETA: NO also had 45 catches from their TE position as well. Just more competition for Meachum.

I think you have to look at the size of the whole pie before answering the question of which slice you'd rather have. The biggest slice of a 3200 yard pie is still not as valuable as being 3rd in line to feed from a 4000+ yard pie.

More parts to the (pie) puzzle:KCC, 2006:

Passing Attempts = 491

*Yards = 3,000

*YPA = 6.91

NOS, 2006:

Passing Attempts = 603

*Yards = 4,503

*YPA = 7.47

* Yards/YPA information per Cold Hard Facts, includes yards lost to pass attempts that resulted in sacks.

What we need to remember is tha KCC makes it's living running, not by passing, the ball!



The ADP Rookie Dynasty results are beginning to show that Anthony Gonzales WR-IND is gaining ground on both these guys. He's just now becoming the #4 drafted WR, begining to nudge out Rice and Jarrett.

Isn't it about time to include him in the discussion?

IND, 2006:

Passing Attempts = 572

*Yards = 4,308

*YPA = 7.53

If it's about cutting up pies in this, and in future, year's distributions, where is #2 Gonzo come two years down the road....in June/July 2009?

 

[EBF]

I'm not overly optimistic about either of these guys. I wouldn't mind having them on the end of my dynasty bench, but I can't say with any confidence that one or both of these two will be 1,000 yard guys.

It's a good year to move down and take a shot on someone like Hill or Robinson at a discount.

 

[EBF]

Warpig,

If we're gonna add all the recievers in the mix, who would you rather compete against for catches:

Bush (88)

Colston (70)

Henderson (32)

McAllister (30)

Copper (23)

Stecker (19)

Karney (15)

or

Gonzo (73)

Kennison (53)

LJ (41)

Parker (41)

Wilson (15)

Bennett (9)

Webb (3)

Unless you think Colston and Bush are both busts, Meachum has no chance of being the Saints #1 recieving option in the next 5-7 years (maybe even longer). At best he's looking at #3 option. However, Gonzo is 31, Kennison is 34. Within the next two years Bowe could be the #2 option in KC behind Gonzo. In 3-4 years he could be the #1 option.

ETA: NO also had 45 catches from their TE position as well. Just more competition for Meachum.

I think you have to look at the size of the whole pie before answering the question of which slice you'd rather have. The biggest slice of a 3200 yard pie is still not as valuable as being 3rd in line to feed from a 4000+ yard pie.

More parts to the (pie) puzzle:KCC, 2006:

Passing Attempts = 491

*Yards = 3,000

*YPA = 6.91

NOS, 2006:

Passing Attempts = 603

*Yards = 4,503

*YPA = 7.47

* Yards/YPA information per Cold Hard Facts, includes yards lost to pass attempts that resulted in sacks.

What we need to remember is tha KCC makes it's living running, not by passing, the ball!



The ADP Rookie Dynasty results are beginning to show that Anthony Gonzales WR-IND is gaining ground on both these guys. He's just now becoming the #4 drafted WR, begining to nudge out Rice and Jarrett.

Isn't it about time to include him in the discussion?

IND, 2006:

Passing Attempts = 572

*Yards = 4,308

*YPA = 7.53

If it's about cutting up pies in this, and in future, year's distributions, where is #2 Gonzo come two years down the road....in June/July 2009?

Why does everyone always assume that Gonzo will replace Harrison? The Colts don't have a big history of breaking the bank for free agents, but it's totally possible that they'll sign someone or draft someone to fill that void. Personally, I see Gonzalez as a career slot guy. People who think he'll automatically put up Wayne/Harrison numbers in a couple years are a little misguided, IMO. He's not that type of WR. He's a lot closer to Stokley.

 

[Lash]

bloom wrote: I think you have to look at the size of the whole pie before answering the question of which slice you'd rather have. The biggest slice of a 3200 yard pie is still not as valuable as being 3rd in line to feed from a 4000+ yard pie.

this is exactly the reason you go with Meachem

even if he NEVER gets to be more than the WR2 for the Saints, that will be much better than the WR1 for the Chiefs

not to mention that Meachem exceeds Bowe in nearly every measurable, college production, and makeup

Meachem gained the weight because of the meniscus problem

he is explosive, talented, and has good hands

he DOES go over the middle to catch the ball

you heard it here first ... in five years there won't be any Bowe vs. Meachem comparisons...

there will be CJohnson vs. Meachem comparisons

(saying all that, i like Bowe, he just isn't in Meachem talent/opportunity range)

 

[jurb26]

Why does everyone always assume that Gonzo will replace Harrison? The Colts don't have a big history of breaking the bank for free agents, but it's totally possible that they'll sign someone or draft someone to fill that void.

Personally, I see Gonzalez as a career slot guy. People who think he'll automatically put up Wayne/Harrison numbers in a couple years are a little LOT misguided, IMO. He's not that type of WR. He's a lot closer to Stokley.

Fixed.

 

[RD1967]

I completely acknowledge Meachem's bust risk, but he'll have to be downright horrible for the next 15 months to not be starting in 2008. Henderson is just not reliable and his contract will be up. Copper is nothing more than a slot receiver. Henderson, Horn, and Copper combined for over 1800 yards last year. Even if you projection some deflation into the passing offense, and solid number for the #3, the #2 WR in that offense has to be a 1000 yard guy assuming 16 games, with upside to spare.

Sorry to disagree with ya, its going to be McNight starting over Meach. A little rough around the edges but a far greater football talent. I dont care who got drafted in what round, the Saints blew the Meach pick and then made up for it by picking McNight in the 7th. With all the pre-draft hype before the draft, even a good team like NO can fumble the pick, too many scouts running with the herd.

McKnight was undrafted.

Your correct, I tend to call every UFA signed by a team a 7th round pick, a really late 7th round pick.