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Meltdown in Japan's Reactors (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter David Dodds
- Start date
Dr. Awesome
Footballguy
That article mentions a lot of things that CAN happen. Even by its own data it would take a day for the fallout to reach our neck of the woods. You can drive far, far away once we have notice the meltdown is happening. Even with traffic you'd have plenty of time.
He's been underground for two days now.
dickey moe
Fingerpicker
Sucks for the Japanese people, and sucks for the near-term in terms of public attitudes toward nuclear energy development. If people think we're going to be able to meet our future alternative energy needs without nuclear power, they're crazy. Wind and solar ain't gonna cut it alone.
Dr. Awesome
Footballguy
Of all the things I thought this thread might cover, MC Hammer didn't pop into my head.
goonsquad
Think different.
Might want to get a head start. 50 million panicked drivers makes for a hell of a traffic jam.
Leviathan
Footballguy
Speculation, but we're all doing that, aren't we?Tell you what though, reading the comments leaves me with the impression that there are a buttload of loons out there.
Dr. Awesome
Footballguy
No doubt. But 24 hours is a long time. And that's a worse case scenario in what is still a giant what if. The bigger danger would come from contaminated rain. If that happens we're really in trouble.
Rohn Jambo
Footballguy
Think of what to do if a lion is coming at you... You don't run straight ahead towards the east coast and stay in front of the danger. The shark move is to drive towards Mexico or Canada, depending on your temperature preference.
Rohn Jambo
Footballguy
Japanese official claimed there was no meltdown. All the confusion was caused by radioactive cesium and iodine measured in the air near the plant Saturday night. This could be scary either way: 1) the government was lying and there was a partial meltdown in progress; or 2) the plant had been leaking dangerous radioactive material into the environment for years but covered up by TEPCO.
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Otis
Footballguy
linkPlant operator TEPCO has had a rocky past in an industry plagued by scandal. In 2002, the president of the country's largest power utility was forced to resign along with four other senior executives, taking responsibility for suspected falsification of nuclear plant safety records.
Many Japanese flooded social networking sites with worries about the plant.
"I can't trust TEPCO," said a person with the handlename Tanuki Atsushi on mixi, the Japanese social networking site. The earthquake and tsunami, and now the radiation leak, present Japan's government with its biggest challenge in a generation.
regularguy
Footballguy
Well, he has been in Saudi Arabia for awhile now. Maybe this like when Costanza abstained from sex and became smart and focused.
Charlie Frown
Footballguy
So if you have a "China Syndrome" in Asia what the heck do you call it?
Mr. Retukes
Footballguy
Montysan Burnssan?
JbizzleMan
Footballguy
Should I be extending my stay in NY?! I fly back tomorrow and would be jumping on a flight ASAP if fallout is really on it's way...I'm based in Los Angeles.
Rohn Jambo
Footballguy
What is very strange is Japanese government workers in biohazard suits scanning everyone who was evacuated from the 13mi area around the plant. Those people were put into a separate shelter than people from other places.
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Dr. Awesome
Footballguy
I'd fly back. The spread of anything to LA is a total doomsday scenario. A LOT of what if's need to happen to truly panic. But if you're comfortable staying out there and can easily afford it, go nuts.
David Dodds
Administrator
Copied from a post at zerohedge.com:
It's difficult to quantify the risks with the nuclear plant with so little information from the source, but in the highly unlikely event that the very thick steel casing has ruptured/melted: Implications for the US: Nothing to moderately bad. Radioactive particles need to be hot enough to be spewed up to +23,000ft. There is a jet stream +90kts directly over the affected zones in Northern/central Japan right now, which accelerates to +150kts over the mid Pacific, then slowing down off the West coast. Worse case scenario - averaging out the speed - 29 hrs to 38 hrs to landfall on the West coast. If there had been a serious leak that managed to eject radioactive particles to the lower stratosphere, you would know by Monday morning. Otherwise, months from now, people might detect slightly elevated readings in cow's milk, and isolated radioactive spots on land.
http://squall.sfsu.edu/gif/jetstream_pac_init_00.gif
It's difficult to quantify the risks with the nuclear plant with so little information from the source, but in the highly unlikely event that the very thick steel casing has ruptured/melted: Implications for the US: Nothing to moderately bad. Radioactive particles need to be hot enough to be spewed up to +23,000ft. There is a jet stream +90kts directly over the affected zones in Northern/central Japan right now, which accelerates to +150kts over the mid Pacific, then slowing down off the West coast. Worse case scenario - averaging out the speed - 29 hrs to 38 hrs to landfall on the West coast. If there had been a serious leak that managed to eject radioactive particles to the lower stratosphere, you would know by Monday morning. Otherwise, months from now, people might detect slightly elevated readings in cow's milk, and isolated radioactive spots on land.
http://squall.sfsu.edu/gif/jetstream_pac_init_00.gif
You're an Admin here. I really expected better from you.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
I find it hard to believe that the entire backup cooling system and it's backup power sources/generators/pumps failed. Just unthinkable. Where I work, we have 6 1000KW Diesel Generators backing up twin 12470V feeders, with 120KGal UST's. We are required to test them monthly and the noise is deafening when they come online. And that isn't even a nuclear facility.
I used to work for the Navy on fast attack nuclear subs. Testing them. We never had a notable nuclear accident and that goes back to Adm. Rickover and his ballbusting tactics. Diesel Generator sets were tested and maintained and really everything was run with dry accuracy and precision. And so much as a missing tag on a valve line-up and you'd have to answer to ships Captain and NRO. People who screwed up were blackballed and run out on a rail. No sympathy for fools.
The problem with this reactor and really maybe all commercial reactors is the unknown protections that the country of Japan is/was willing to take with aging reactors in the name of producing energy. In the military, there are way more checks and balances, at least from my limited viewpoint. I have friends who used to work at commercial nuclear plants and in the US, and there operating procedures seem tame by comparison. Of course, to be fair, they aren't modulating power for 25% to 98% and back. Commercial plants like to operate around 95% all the time.
It sounds like they had a number of reactors down for maintenance and the others were on their last legs. I'd like to hear if they can prove that they operated the backup systems and if so, how long and what were the results?
I used to work for the Navy on fast attack nuclear subs. Testing them. We never had a notable nuclear accident and that goes back to Adm. Rickover and his ballbusting tactics. Diesel Generator sets were tested and maintained and really everything was run with dry accuracy and precision. And so much as a missing tag on a valve line-up and you'd have to answer to ships Captain and NRO. People who screwed up were blackballed and run out on a rail. No sympathy for fools.
The problem with this reactor and really maybe all commercial reactors is the unknown protections that the country of Japan is/was willing to take with aging reactors in the name of producing energy. In the military, there are way more checks and balances, at least from my limited viewpoint. I have friends who used to work at commercial nuclear plants and in the US, and there operating procedures seem tame by comparison. Of course, to be fair, they aren't modulating power for 25% to 98% and back. Commercial plants like to operate around 95% all the time.
It sounds like they had a number of reactors down for maintenance and the others were on their last legs. I'd like to hear if they can prove that they operated the backup systems and if so, how long and what were the results?
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Fennis
Footballguy
what do you disagree with?
timschochet
Footballguy
Some expert on CNN said that the radiation you get during a CT scan is about 100 times greater than if you spent an hour at the nuclear plant right now. I don't know if that's true, but it made me feel better hearing it.
Rohn Jambo
Footballguy
Just got the CNN breaking news email:"We're assuming that a meltdown has occurred " at a quake-damaged nuclear reactor, Japan's chief Cabinet Secretary says.WTF?! All the news web sites say "Partial" and not "Full" meltdown.
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Fennis
Footballguy
They are working under an assumption of a meltdown, but the radiation is contained.
wilked
Footballguy
You are probably overthinking this...it would be no different with an American plant. The workers understand the consequences of a full-scale and uncontrolled meltdown, and will do what they can to prevent it. I don't think culture makes too much of a difference here
cstu
Footballguy
It's not even been 10 years and people have already forgot about the hundreds of Americans who ran into buildings hit by airplanes with no concern for their own safety.
cstu
Footballguy
Not about getting a CT scan though...
David Dodds
Administrator
Here's Bill Nye (The Science Guy) on the possible meltdown...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=af-41E5mndk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=af-41E5mndk
David Dodds
Administrator
This just keeps getting worse:
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2011/03/13/world/asia/AP-AS-Japan-Earthquake-Nuclear-Crisis.html?_r=1&hp
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2011/03/13/world/asia/AP-AS-Japan-Earthquake-Nuclear-Crisis.html?_r=1&hp
tom22406
Footballguy
Yes it is.The feed that I have been following is saying the 1 and 3 reactors have begun the meltdown phase but are very vague with the radiation levels that are being released into the air.They still are very worried about 4 others that could also begin this as well.
Clarence the barber
Footballguy
You are supposed to fly AWAY from fallout. Stay in NYC.
Otis
Footballguy
Does it really keep getting worse, or is that just media hype to keep people tuned in.For example, this guy seems to think all is under control:http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/13/japan.nuclear.reactors/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1
tom22406
Footballguy
FavreCo
Footballguy
You are joking right? 8.9+ earthquake then a tsunami. Pretty beleivable.Also, I would trust the Japanese gov't to tell it like it is a hell of a lot more than this country would. I laugh at the clowns on TV saying that pouring in seawater is desperation. Um..they are desperate. They are doing everyhting they can think of. Over here, we would be having hearings on capital hill as to what to do while it melts down and releases radiation. The republicans would blame Obama. The democrats would blame Bush.
Boomer1
Footballguy
Ever try starting them under water?
SofaKings
Footballguy
Houston...we have a problem.
Sand
Footballguy
You do realize the technologies involved, yes? This is a 1st generation plant. Newer plants work significantly differently and the need for pumped coolant isn't there. This is the argument you're going to see here in the US about nuclear. Lots of screaming from folks (environmental groups and politicians) who have no idea what the #### they are talking about. Or do and will scream despite knowing the facts. It really is pretty sad.(Though I also would like to see thorium based reactors rather than uranium).
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IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
That doesn't matter, though. The debate over nuclear power is as much about ideology and NIMBYism than it is about science. I think the pessimists are right about this one, which means that we'll be sticking with fossil fuels for a couple more decades at least.
the moops
Footballguy
3C's
Footballguy
Just spent some time at a place intimately familiar with the situation. Part of the problem with the backup power is that the power building and reactor building are separated by some distance. The transmission of power is by overhead lines. The waves were ten meters. The overhead lines snapped. The containment structure is in tact. The explosion was from excess pressure in the pumps. Pumped in sea water to that first reactor. It's a total loss. Five others are in trouble. That's what I remember. I've been up most of the last 2 days. Good night Irene...
David Dodds
Administrator
Radiation up 400x in Miyaga - Dozen Kilometers (6 miles) away:
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Sand
Footballguy
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
If the containtment structure is intact and the weak link is the overhead transmission lines, what a design flaw! Transmission lines need to be localized or underground cable needed to be run to the reactor facility. And pumping sea water can't be in any emergency procedure manual. For all the acclaim that Japanese Nuclear reactors have been recently given, (or is it just damage control?) they are flying by the seat of thier pants with this emergency. I still think as long as the outer containment vessel holds, this wont be as bad as a lot of people think. But the radioactive steam off the seawater billowing out into the environment is going to be a concern.
