Meltdown in Japan's Reactors (2 Viewers)

[Rovers]

"I'm clearly no expert, but would like to see this disputed."

Interesting and reassuring for those not in the area. Article is clear to state that the cleanup workers are in immediate danger, which was the point that led to this discussion. Also, there are likely to be deaths in the immediate surrounding area (probably more thyroid cancer, though perhaps not as many as Chernobyl.) Of course, I somewhat question Forbes' motives, since they primarily want market stability and I very much question (as is acknowledged in the article) the accuracy of reporting related to Chernobyl deaths. Of course, there is a much greater threat posed in the near-term by hygiene, disease, lack of shelter and other factors. It's still unclear what the life expectancy will be for the cleanup workers and those absorbing radioactive iodine and other heavy radioactive particles. I guess in the end, I'd put it to you... If you lived with 30 miles of Fukashima, would you feel good about remaining there?

CNN has gullible, fearful reactive peope like you tuning in because they know if they tell you "everybody's gonna die" you will watch. You posted this:BTW, thought I've had often during this is how we tend to glorify the selfless acts of these plant workers, when in reality the deaths many will experience will be agonizing and violent. I've heard some of the reports of how organs will be ravaged by those exposed to the core... It's not pretty. I suspect that more people will die of long-term Cancers just from being unfortunate enough to live nearby and be exposed to contamination. The sad fact is that an untold number of people will sacrifice their lives to rebuild, from those cleaning up the plant to those who simply remain in Fukashima to rebuild the economy. Sometimes something is so bad there's really no sugar coating it. This equates to a lot of people dying over a long period of time. Does anyone doubt that?

I not only doubt all of this nonesne, it frankly makes me beieve you are quite nuts. CNN has blatantly misled and even lied abou this entire event since day 1. In case you haven't noticed, only the "experts" (and most of them are now experts) that have been on CNN more than once are the ones who talk about worst case scenarios in "a nuclear accident", and talk in the abstract of that vs. actually discussing the Japan events. The truthful, informed experts show up once, and when they don't predict stupid stuff like "violent deaths" they aren't invited back.

Regarding these events, CNN has become less credible than the National Enquirer. Seriously. They have outright fabricated 100% lies to keep people watching. You are the sheep they can fool.

 

[Otis]

"I'm clearly no expert, but would like to see this disputed."

Interesting and reassuring for those not in the area. Article is clear to state that the cleanup workers are in immediate danger, which was the point that led to this discussion. Also, there are likely to be deaths in the immediate surrounding area (probably more thyroid cancer, though perhaps not as many as Chernobyl.) Of course, I somewhat question Forbes' motives, since they primarily want market stability and I very much question (as is acknowledged in the article) the accuracy of reporting related to Chernobyl deaths. Of course, there is a much greater threat posed in the near-term by hygiene, disease, lack of shelter and other factors. It's still unclear what the life expectancy will be for the cleanup workers and those absorbing radioactive iodine and other heavy radioactive particles. I guess in the end, I'd put it to you... If you lived with 30 miles of Fukashima, would you feel good about remaining there?

CNN has gullible, fearful reactive peope like you tuning in because they know if they tell you "everybody's gonna die" you will watch. You posted this:

BTW, thought I've had often during this is how we tend to glorify the selfless acts of these plant workers, when in reality the deaths many will experience will be agonizing and violent. I've heard some of the reports of how organs will be ravaged by those exposed to the core... It's not pretty. I suspect that more people will die of long-term Cancers just from being unfortunate enough to live nearby and be exposed to contamination. The sad fact is that an untold number of people will sacrifice their lives to rebuild, from those cleaning up the plant to those who simply remain in Fukashima to rebuild the economy. Sometimes something is so bad there's really no sugar coating it. This equates to a lot of people dying over a long period of time. Does anyone doubt that?

I not only doubt all of this nonesne, it frankly makes me beieve you are quite nuts. CNN has blatantly misled and even lied abou this entire event since day 1. In case you haven't noticed, only the "experts" (and most of them are now experts) that have been on CNN more than once are the ones who talk about worst case scenarios in "a nuclear accident", and talk in the abstract of that vs. actually discussing the Japan events. The truthful, informed experts show up once, and when they don't predict stupid stuff like "violent deaths" they aren't invited back.

Regarding these events, CNN has become less credible than the National Enquirer. Seriously. They have outright fabricated 100% lies to keep people watching. You are the sheep they can fool.

The bolded times a million.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

"I'm clearly no expert, but would like to see this disputed."

Interesting and reassuring for those not in the area. Article is clear to state that the cleanup workers are in immediate danger, which was the point that led to this discussion. Also, there are likely to be deaths in the immediate surrounding area (probably more thyroid cancer, though perhaps not as many as Chernobyl.) Of course, I somewhat question Forbes' motives, since they primarily want market stability and I very much question (as is acknowledged in the article) the accuracy of reporting related to Chernobyl deaths. Of course, there is a much greater threat posed in the near-term by hygiene, disease, lack of shelter and other factors. It's still unclear what the life expectancy will be for the cleanup workers and those absorbing radioactive iodine and other heavy radioactive particles. I guess in the end, I'd put it to you... If you lived with 30 miles of Fukashima, would you feel good about remaining there?

CNN has gullible, fearful reactive peope like you tuning in because they know if they tell you "everybody's gonna die" you will watch. You posted this:

BTW, thought I've had often during this is how we tend to glorify the selfless acts of these plant workers, when in reality the deaths many will experience will be agonizing and violent. I've heard some of the reports of how organs will be ravaged by those exposed to the core... It's not pretty. I suspect that more people will die of long-term Cancers just from being unfortunate enough to live nearby and be exposed to contamination. The sad fact is that an untold number of people will sacrifice their lives to rebuild, from those cleaning up the plant to those who simply remain in Fukashima to rebuild the economy. Sometimes something is so bad there's really no sugar coating it. This equates to a lot of people dying over a long period of time. Does anyone doubt that?

I not only doubt all of this nonesne, it frankly makes me beieve you are quite nuts. CNN has blatantly misled and even lied abou this entire event since day 1. In case you haven't noticed, only the "experts" (and most of them are now experts) that have been on CNN more than once are the ones who talk about worst case scenarios in "a nuclear accident", and talk in the abstract of that vs. actually discussing the Japan events. The truthful, informed experts show up once, and when they don't predict stupid stuff like "violent deaths" they aren't invited back.

Regarding these events, CNN has become less credible than the National Enquirer. Seriously. They have outright fabricated 100% lies to keep people watching. You are the sheep they can fool.

The bolded times a million.

Otis is one of the CNN sheep. At least Ham is crazy enough to watch and believe. You keep watching and crying how awful it is and questioning what kind of morons watch...then you continue to watch.

 

[Incogneto]

Does anybody know of a way to go and help or is monetary the best way?

Depends. How do you feel about suicide missions in reactors?

Funny stuff, Gilbert.

Tongue in cheek, but it's true... This is such a gigantic mess, it's going to require many lives lost to even begin to right it. It's a sad fact, but a fact indeed. The economic damage is going to exceed a trillion dollars... Not that every dollar isn't a nice gesture, but Japan's got to print its way out of this one and it'll take generations to repay. Not that someone going to Japan to lend volunteer work wouldn't be an incredibly generous gesture, but this is really, really bad despite the "its all over" sentiment and there are many who must and will die pretty horribly, and as always it's not going to be anyone responsible for the decisions but brave, noble souls from the bottom rungs. They are the ones who will help.

trillions? As in 2.000000001 trillion dollars? Or is that Yuan?

Over my head...BTW, thought I've had often during this is how we tend to glorify the selfless acts of these plant workers, when in reality the deaths many will experience will be agonizing and violent. I've heard some of the reports of how organs will be ravaged by those exposed to the core... It's not pretty. I suspect that more people will die of long-term Cancers just from being unfortunate enough to live nearby and be exposed to contamination. The sad fact is that an untold number of people will sacrifice their lives to rebuild, from those cleaning up the plant to those who simply remain in Fukashima to rebuild the economy. Sometimes something is so bad there's really no sugar coating it. This equates to a lot of people dying over a long period of time. Does anyone doubt that?

I Do.

 

[renesauz]

blah, blah, blah.Really the only question that needs answering, in laymen's terms, would you eat the food, or drink the water from the areas surrounding the plant. How far away should the food source be before you would feel comfortable with the food as your main diet. DO you expect a "dead" zone in the vicinity of the plant - how big a radius - < mile, or more?I don't care about the periodic table or half-lifes I care about the cumulative effect on the radiation that has been exposed to the environment as an airborne contaminant and/or in the food chain, or water table.I don't think anyone is growing 3 heads here, but what is the increased risk to the health of folks living within a certain radius of the plant. Are the radiation effects cumulative - meaning they are fine for a day/week/month, but at a certain level they become problematic over an extended period of time - week/month/year.I assume that at this point, the Japanese experts believe that the worst is behind them - otherwise I have to think they would be taking steps to bury the plant - given that the seawater has already rendered several of the reactors useless.

I would want more concrete data before I answered that, and not from the normal media. I would suspect that you'd want to skip the LOCAL crops this year (if there are any, I'm only referring to in a 2 or 3 mile radius), but most will be OK next year.

 

[renesauz]

Read his last 5 or 6 posts. Then realize that anyone who's paid any attention in this thread whatsoever would know that radioiodine was NOT a danger to the food supply.

Everyone reading along in this thread realizes that you so narrowly define all of your responses that the great knowledge you have to share is lost. By constantly trivializing any and all news you are losing credibility.Reports out of Japan this morning is about food being contaminated. Your reply should not be that there is no danger of this happening, but that the levels so far are still very safe - even if way above the official limits. And that you think the levels will remain safe because of ?????. Instead you keep personally attacking anyone that has expressed any kind of fear. Sure Mr Ham goes over the top, but trying to one up him in the opposite direction is not really that useful now is it. You would come off a lot better if you stop being pissed that people that know less than you are expressing their fears.

Mr. Ham was WELL over the top, particularly with the 50 people, organs distended stuff. That said, you are correct in that my responses of late have been...short tempered (for lack of a better phrase.) I've been quite irritated with the shoddy, fearmongering news coverage.

 

[renesauz]

blah, blah, blah.Really the only question that needs answering, in laymen's terms, would you eat the food, or drink the water from the areas surrounding the plant. How far away should the food source be before you would feel comfortable with the food as your main diet. DO you expect a "dead" zone in the vicinity of the plant - how big a radius - < mile, or more?I don't care about the periodic table or half-lifes I care about the cumulative effect on the radiation that has been exposed to the environment as an airborne contaminant and/or in the food chain, or water table.I don't think anyone is growing 3 heads here, but what is the increased risk to the health of folks living within a certain radius of the plant. Are the radiation effects cumulative - meaning they are fine for a day/week/month, but at a certain level they become problematic over an extended period of time - week/month/year.I assume that at this point, the Japanese experts believe that the worst is behind them - otherwise I have to think they would be taking steps to bury the plant - given that the seawater has already rendered several of the reactors useless.

RADIATION levels are not the real concern, as they are already low. Environmental sampling will be needed to determine what the CONTAMINATION levels are. Generally, if significant longlived stuff was not released, then all areas outside the plant will be safe within a couple weeks, if they aren't already. Contamination is a danger if it finds a way INSIDE the body. MOre information will become available I'm sure, but I would not EXPECT a "dead zone". I would expect most folks could safely return their homes in a few weeks at most.

 

[renesauz]

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/

NEWS ADVISORY: Radioactive cesium 24.8 times higher detected in seawater near nuke plant

NEWS ADVISORY: Radioactive iodine 126.7 times higher detected in seawater near nuke plant

"Normal" is extremely low, so 25X is may not be too big a concern, depending on how/if cesium has a way to concentrate in fish. Iodine is not a real concern, although I would avoid fish in the area for a few weeks.I've been looking for reports about other more dangerous radionuclides in sampling, and haven't seen anything. Cesium and Iodine are things I'd expect to find locally with a coolant loss...I'm talking about other things which might be found with a partial meltdown and complete loss of control.

 

[renesauz]

All VPR NewsContact Us Radioactive Milk Only A Danger After 58,000 Glasses

Monday, 03/21/11 6:46pm

Richard Knox

.

A woman feeds her cattle at a farm in Futamata, Fukushima prefecture, March 20, 2011.The World Health Organization weighed in Monday on the risk of eating food contaminated by radiation emitted by the still-troubled Fukushima Dai-ichi power plant.

Peter Cordingley, a Manila-based WHO spokesman, told Reuters that the radioactive-food situation is "a lot more serious than anybody thought in the early days, when we thought that this kind of problem can be limited to 20 to 30 kilometers."

At Geneva headquarters, WHO spokesman Gregory Hartl told the Associated Press that Japan must act quickly to keep radioactive food out of the marketplace.

This calls for a reality check.

So I had an hour-long chat with Peter Caracappa, a health physicist at Renssealaer Polytechnic Institute in Troy, N.Y. He's been running some calculations on the radioactive iodine-131 and cesium-137 levels being reported in Japanese milk, spinach and drinking water.

Before we get into the details, Caracappa's bottom line is that the risk of ingesting even the most highly contaminated Japanese foodstuffs reported so far is very, very small.

"The long and the short of it is that we're not going to be able to detect any statistically significant change in the cancer rate for anyone as a result of the events in Japan," he told Shots.

To understand why, let's look at how the amounts of radioactivity found in spinach and milk from northern Japan in the past few days relate to two metrics:

•The amount of radiation a U.S. nuclear power plant worker is allowed to get in a year: 50 milliSieverts.

•The amount of radiation it takes to increase your lifetime risk of cancer by 4 percent: 1 Sievert. (A Sievert is a measure of ionizing radiation's effect on human tissue; a milliSievert is a thousandth of a Sievert.)

The whole article...pretty goodKeep in mind also that anything recently harvested, or harvested now, can be washed to remove most contamination. And yes... I'd eat that. Radiation doesn't hurt food one bit (in fact...it's actually used on some foods as a method of killing microbes!) so if the contamination is removed...it's perfectly safe. Crops that have had the opportunity to incorporate radioactive particles in their structures may pose a different problem.

The article goes on to explain that the levels found thus far pose little or no risk. Further smapling is needed to verify.

 

[Rovers]

Next up on CNN:

People cooking hot dogs on a beach in CA without fire. Radiation? We'll be back with more on this after the break.

 

[3C's]

Keep in mind also that anything recently harvested, or harvested now, can be washed to remove most contamination.

BUT YOU'D BE WASHING IT WITH CONTAMINATED WATER!!

 

[David Dodds]

More information will become available I'm sure, but I would not EXPECT a "dead zone". I would expect most folks could safely return their homes in a few weeks at most.

You don't expect this to be entombed? I must be a glass half-empty person because I think this will be covered in sand and concrete at some point and I fully expect we will definitely see a dead zone.

 

[Otis]

"I'm clearly no expert, but would like to see this disputed."

Interesting and reassuring for those not in the area. Article is clear to state that the cleanup workers are in immediate danger, which was the point that led to this discussion. Also, there are likely to be deaths in the immediate surrounding area (probably more thyroid cancer, though perhaps not as many as Chernobyl.) Of course, I somewhat question Forbes' motives, since they primarily want market stability and I very much question (as is acknowledged in the article) the accuracy of reporting related to Chernobyl deaths. Of course, there is a much greater threat posed in the near-term by hygiene, disease, lack of shelter and other factors. It's still unclear what the life expectancy will be for the cleanup workers and those absorbing radioactive iodine and other heavy radioactive particles. I guess in the end, I'd put it to you... If you lived with 30 miles of Fukashima, would you feel good about remaining there?

CNN has gullible, fearful reactive peope like you tuning in because they know if they tell you "everybody's gonna die" you will watch. You posted this:

BTW, thought I've had often during this is how we tend to glorify the selfless acts of these plant workers, when in reality the deaths many will experience will be agonizing and violent. I've heard some of the reports of how organs will be ravaged by those exposed to the core... It's not pretty. I suspect that more people will die of long-term Cancers just from being unfortunate enough to live nearby and be exposed to contamination. The sad fact is that an untold number of people will sacrifice their lives to rebuild, from those cleaning up the plant to those who simply remain in Fukashima to rebuild the economy. Sometimes something is so bad there's really no sugar coating it. This equates to a lot of people dying over a long period of time. Does anyone doubt that?

I not only doubt all of this nonesne, it frankly makes me beieve you are quite nuts. CNN has blatantly misled and even lied abou this entire event since day 1. In case you haven't noticed, only the "experts" (and most of them are now experts) that have been on CNN more than once are the ones who talk about worst case scenarios in "a nuclear accident", and talk in the abstract of that vs. actually discussing the Japan events. The truthful, informed experts show up once, and when they don't predict stupid stuff like "violent deaths" they aren't invited back.

Regarding these events, CNN has become less credible than the National Enquirer. Seriously. They have outright fabricated 100% lies to keep people watching. You are the sheep they can fool.

The bolded times a million.

Otis is one of the CNN sheep. At least Ham is crazy enough to watch and believe. You keep watching and crying how awful it is and questioning what kind of morons watch...then you continue to watch.

Don't be so boring and predictable all the time. I'd give you multiple stars if you didn't suck.

 

[David Dodds]

Fearmongers at Fox News had this to say:

http://www.foxnews.c...in-say-experts/

Japan's Nuclear Disaster Raises Concerns About Contamination of the Global Food Chain

"The radiation leaks at Fukushima don't come close to that of Chernobyl. Still, Japanese officials admit their food chain is also contaminated with harmful levels of radiation, in some cases up to 90 miles from the nuclear site."

 

[David Dodds]

This one seems a bit serious.

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/80057.html

Radiation 1,600 times normal level 20 km from Fukushima plant:

Radiation 1,600 times higher than normal levels has been detected in an area about 20 kilometers from the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, International Atomic Energy Agency officials said Monday.Data collected by an IAEA team show that radiation levels of 161 microsievert per hour have been detected in the town of Namie, Fukushima Prefecture, the officials said.The government has set an exclusion zone covering areas within a 20-km radius of the plant and has urged people within 20 to 30 km to stay indoors.

 

[David Dodds]

Good radiation chart (including the banana reference):

http://xkcd.com/radiation/

 

[bueno]

blah, blah, blah.Really the only question that needs answering, in laymen's terms, would you eat the food, or drink the water from the areas surrounding the plant. How far away should the food source be before you would feel comfortable with the food as your main diet. DO you expect a "dead" zone in the vicinity of the plant - how big a radius - < mile, or more?I don't care about the periodic table or half-lifes I care about the cumulative effect on the radiation that has been exposed to the environment as an airborne contaminant and/or in the food chain, or water table.I don't think anyone is growing 3 heads here, but what is the increased risk to the health of folks living within a certain radius of the plant. Are the radiation effects cumulative - meaning they are fine for a day/week/month, but at a certain level they become problematic over an extended period of time - week/month/year.I assume that at this point, the Japanese experts believe that the worst is behind them - otherwise I have to think they would be taking steps to bury the plant - given that the seawater has already rendered several of the reactors useless.

No matter what anyone tells you, if you don't understand the technical aspect, you can't separate the quacks from the people who know just enough to be dangerous, from the people who can honestly answer your question. I do not expect a permanent dead zone. I don't expect plants to wither and die.I would not drink milk produced from the vicinity of the plants for the next two months. Probably not fast-growing plants like spinach either.The table I provided describes in numerical fashion the increased health risk.It does sound like the worst is over - which it would have been anyway, because the short-lived radioactive daughter products are decaying.

 

[Sheriff66]

- Bueno

 

[David Dodds]

It's like eating a banana. A banana the size of Rhode Island, but just a banana.

 

[David Dodds]

High radiation detected 40km from nuclear plant

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/22_35.html

Japan's science ministry says radiation exceeding 400 times the normal level was detected in soil about 40 kilometers from the troubled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant.

The ministry surveyed radioactive substances in soil about 5 centimeters below the surface at roadsides on Monday.

The ministry found 43,000 becquerels of radioactive iodine-131 per kilogram of soil, and 4,700 becquerels of radioactive cesium-137 per kilogram about 40 kilometers west-northwest of the plant.

Gunma University Professor Keigo Endo says radiation released by the iodine is 430 times the level normally detected in soil in Japan and that released by the cesium is 47 times the norm.

 

[Sheriff66]

 

[renesauz]

More information will become available I'm sure, but I would not EXPECT a "dead zone". I would expect most folks could safely return their homes in a few weeks at most.

You don't expect this to be entombed? I must be a glass half-empty person because I think this will be covered in sand and concrete at some point and I fully expect we will definitely see a dead zone.

"Entombing" would not be done for "radiation" concerns, but for economic ones. It might be cheaper to encase these reactors in concrete than to clean up the mess.The radionuclides they're talking about (in the environment) so far will not cause a "dead zone". The "Dead zone" around Chernobyl is already a LIVE ZONE. Nature has recovered there MUCH faster than even the most optimistic projections projected.

 

[renesauz]

High radiation detected 40km from nuclear planthttp://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/22_35.htmlJapan's science ministry says radiation exceeding 400 times the normal level was detected in soil about 40 kilometers from the troubled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant.The ministry surveyed radioactive substances in soil about 5 centimeters below the surface at roadsides on Monday.The ministry found 43,000 becquerels of radioactive iodine-131 per kilogram of soil, and 4,700 becquerels of radioactive cesium-137 per kilogram about 40 kilometers west-northwest of the plant.Gunma University Professor Keigo Endo says radiation released by the iodine is 430 times the level normally detected in soil in Japan and that released by the cesium is 47 times the norm.

Remember what NORM is....virtually zero. IN fact, norm is so low, that you have to super-concentrate your samples just to measure it. 430 X 1 is only 430. 430 X .01 is 4.3. 400 x virtually nil is still pretty darn low.The danger is grossly overstated when couched in terms like this to people who've never studied topics like this.Forget the iodine...its really no longer a concern.

 

[CBusAlex]

That chart is great... Let me get this straight... Exposure is cumulative right? So if severe radiation poisoning is 2000 mSu, as detailed in that chart, then roughly twelve hours of exposure (outside, I'm supposing) 20 kilometers out could be potentially fatal? How much does exposure drop off inside?

You're getting milisievert (mSu) and microsievert (μSu) mixed up. It would take twelve thousand hours of exposure to add up to that.

 

[David Dodds]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-17/japan-reactor-may-be-stable-enough-to-start-cleanup-in-two-days.html

Reactor May Be Stable Enough to Start Cleanup in Two Days, Professor Says

...Oh wait, this story is from 5 days ago.

 

[David Dodds]

IAEA tracks radiation leaks at Japan's crippled plant

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/22/us-japan-quake-idUSTRE72A0SS20110322?WT.tsrc=Social%20Media&WT.z_smid=twtr-reuters_%20com&WT.z_smid_dest=Twitter

...He gave no more details, but a TEPCO executive vice president, Sakae Muto, said the core of reactor No.1 was now a worry with its temperature at 380-390 Celsius (715-735 Fahrenheit). "We need to strive to bring that down a bit," Muto told a news conference, adding that the reactor was built to run at a temperature of 302 C (575 F).

 

[General Malaise]

blah, blah, blah.Really the only question that needs answering, in laymen's terms, would you eat the food, or drink the water from the areas surrounding the plant. How far away should the food source be before you would feel comfortable with the food as your main diet. DO you expect a "dead" zone in the vicinity of the plant - how big a radius - < mile, or more?I don't care about the periodic table or half-lifes I care about the cumulative effect on the radiation that has been exposed to the environment as an airborne contaminant and/or in the food chain, or water table.I don't think anyone is growing 3 heads here, but what is the increased risk to the health of folks living within a certain radius of the plant. Are the radiation effects cumulative - meaning they are fine for a day/week/month, but at a certain level they become problematic over an extended period of time - week/month/year.I assume that at this point, the Japanese experts believe that the worst is behind them - otherwise I have to think they would be taking steps to bury the plant - given that the seawater has already rendered several of the reactors useless.

No matter what anyone tells you, if you don't understand the technical aspect, you can't separate the quacks from the people who know just enough to be dangerous, from the people who can honestly answer your question. I do not expect a permanent dead zone. I don't expect plants to wither and die.I would not drink milk produced from the vicinity of the plants for the next two months. Probably not fast-growing plants like spinach either.The table I provided describes in numerical fashion the increased health risk.It does sound like the worst is over - which it would have been anyway, because the short-lived radioactive daughter products are decaying.

Uranium bounced back to $60 last night. I'm guessing saner heads have prevailed.

 

[General Malaise]

blah, blah, blah.Really the only question that needs answering, in laymen's terms, would you eat the food, or drink the water from the areas surrounding the plant. How far away should the food source be before you would feel comfortable with the food as your main diet. DO you expect a "dead" zone in the vicinity of the plant - how big a radius - < mile, or more?I don't care about the periodic table or half-lifes I care about the cumulative effect on the radiation that has been exposed to the environment as an airborne contaminant and/or in the food chain, or water table.I don't think anyone is growing 3 heads here, but what is the increased risk to the health of folks living within a certain radius of the plant. Are the radiation effects cumulative - meaning they are fine for a day/week/month, but at a certain level they become problematic over an extended period of time - week/month/year.I assume that at this point, the Japanese experts believe that the worst is behind them - otherwise I have to think they would be taking steps to bury the plant - given that the seawater has already rendered several of the reactors useless.

No matter what anyone tells you, if you don't understand the technical aspect, you can't separate the quacks from the people who know just enough to be dangerous, from the people who can honestly answer your question. I do not expect a permanent dead zone. I don't expect plants to wither and die.I would not drink milk produced from the vicinity of the plants for the next two months. Probably not fast-growing plants like spinach either.The table I provided describes in numerical fashion the increased health risk.It does sound like the worst is over - which it would have been anyway, because the short-lived radioactive daughter products are decaying.

Uranium bounced back to $60 last night. I'm guessing saner heads have prevailed.

Course maybe not so much in this thread, but overall, seems like sanity has returned.

 

[Otis]

blah, blah, blah.Really the only question that needs answering, in laymen's terms, would you eat the food, or drink the water from the areas surrounding the plant. How far away should the food source be before you would feel comfortable with the food as your main diet. DO you expect a "dead" zone in the vicinity of the plant - how big a radius - < mile, or more?I don't care about the periodic table or half-lifes I care about the cumulative effect on the radiation that has been exposed to the environment as an airborne contaminant and/or in the food chain, or water table.I don't think anyone is growing 3 heads here, but what is the increased risk to the health of folks living within a certain radius of the plant. Are the radiation effects cumulative - meaning they are fine for a day/week/month, but at a certain level they become problematic over an extended period of time - week/month/year.I assume that at this point, the Japanese experts believe that the worst is behind them - otherwise I have to think they would be taking steps to bury the plant - given that the seawater has already rendered several of the reactors useless.

No matter what anyone tells you, if you don't understand the technical aspect, you can't separate the quacks from the people who know just enough to be dangerous, from the people who can honestly answer your question. I do not expect a permanent dead zone. I don't expect plants to wither and die.I would not drink milk produced from the vicinity of the plants for the next two months. Probably not fast-growing plants like spinach either.The table I provided describes in numerical fashion the increased health risk.It does sound like the worst is over - which it would have been anyway, because the short-lived radioactive daughter products are decaying.

Uranium bounced back to $60 last night. I'm guessing saner heads have prevailed.

Course maybe not so much in this thread, but overall, seems like sanity has returned.

 

[David Dodds]

For those that believe this is under control, when do you think Operation Squirt Gun is completed? I posted a link from 5 days ago saying this should be done in two days. But it seems like they are spraying water on these around the clock and the temperatures appear to be increasing. Is that the strategy? Just keep dousing it with water for months/years?

 

[General Malaise]

Operation Squirt Gun sounds like a good Porno Movie name for Cytheria.

 

[Sarnoff]

"Tell him about the Twinkie..."

 

[flufhed]

For those that believe this is under control, when do you think Operation Squirt Gun is completed? I posted a link from 5 days ago saying this should be done in two days. But it seems like they are spraying water on these around the clock and the temperatures appear to be increasing. Is that the strategy? Just keep dousing it with water for months/years?

Darnit, this just HAS to be a huge disaster. It just HAS to!!

 

[General Malaise]

For those that believe this is under control, when do you think Operation Squirt Gun is completed? I posted a link from 5 days ago saying this should be done in two days. But it seems like they are spraying water on these around the clock and the temperatures appear to be increasing. Is that the strategy? Just keep dousing it with water for months/years?

Darnit, this just HAS to be a huge disaster. It just HAS to!!

He's probably short U.

 

[Incogneto]

Anyone else think Dodds is actually CHEERING for a catastrophic disaster?

 

[Sarnoff]

Environmental activist George Monbiot:

You will not be surprised to hear that the events in Japan have changed my view of nuclear power. You will be surprised to hear how they have changed it. As a result of the disaster at Fukushima, I am no longer nuclear-neutral. I now support the technology.

A crappy old plant with inadequate safety features was hit by a monster earthquake and a vast tsunami. The electricity supply failed, knocking out the cooling system. The reactors began to explode and melt down. The disaster exposed a familiar legacy of poor design and corner-cutting. Yet, as far as we know, no one has yet received a lethal dose of radiation.

Some greens have wildly exaggerated the dangers of radioactive pollution. For a clearer view, look at the graphic published by xkcd.com. It shows that the average total dose from the Three Mile Island disaster for someone living within 10 miles of the plant was one 625th of the maximum yearly amount permitted for US radiation workers. This, in turn, is half of the lowest one-year dose clearly linked to an increased cancer risk, which, in its turn, is one 80th of an invariably fatal exposure. I'm not proposing complacency here. I am proposing perspective.

Edit to add his comments on the xkcd chart

 

[Otis]

Environmental activist George Monbiot:

You will not be surprised to hear that the events in Japan have changed my view of nuclear power. You will be surprised to hear how they have changed it. As a result of the disaster at Fukushima, I am no longer nuclear-neutral. I now support the technology.

A crappy old plant with inadequate safety features was hit by a monster earthquake and a vast tsunami. The electricity supply failed, knocking out the cooling system. The reactors began to explode and melt down. The disaster exposed a familiar legacy of poor design and corner-cutting. Yet, as far as we know, no one has yet received a lethal dose of radiation.

 

[3C's]

Anyone else think Dodds is actually CHEERING for a catastrophic disaster?

My link

 

[Sarnoff]

"We’re lucky to face nuclear-plant problems, because if the tsunami had hit a solar farm instead, 10,000’s of Lbs of lead and cadmium telluride would have been swept into the Sea of Japan poisoning just about everything."

 

[3C's]

For those that believe this is under control, when do you think Operation Squirt Gun is completed? I posted a link from 5 days ago saying this should be done in two days. But it seems like they are spraying water on these around the clock and the temperatures appear to be increasing. Is that the strategy? Just keep dousing it with water for months/years?

Do you understand why they have to "squirt" water on it? Do you not know that they completed squirting water on it but until they get the normal cooling systems operational they will have to continue doing it?For this round, water injecting has been completed in reactor 4.

Good news, power is back to the control room of reactor 3 and they should get power to the cooling system soon. Power cables are ready for reactor 4.

 

[Fennis]

sorry to steal shtick, but its time for the full link

 

[Blue-Kun]

I know it's not bad news so it'll probably be ignored like some of the other info I posted, but a CNN headline that isn't full of it.http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/22/japan.nuclear.reactors/index.html?hpt=C2

Tokyo (CNN) -- Technicians restored power to the control room of the No. 3 reactor at the quake-damaged Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, the station's owner reported late Tuesday.Tokyo Electric Power Company (TEPCO) said it confirmed that the power was on by turning on the control room's lights. The next step, the company said, is to get air conditioning in the room so workers can enter and work there.

Not a major breakthrough since obviously many of the systems are damaged, but it's good to see something good happening with the power supply.On a related note:China Syndrome on IMDBMOVIEmeter: Up 319% in popularity this week. See why on IMDbPro!

 

[Fennis]

I know it's not bad news so it'll probably be ignored like some of the other info I posted, but a CNN headline that isn't full of it.http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/22/japan.nuclear.reactors/index.html?hpt=C2

Tokyo (CNN) -- Technicians restored power to the control room of the No. 3 reactor at the quake-damaged Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, the station's owner reported late Tuesday.Tokyo Electric Power Company (TEPCO) said it confirmed that the power was on by turning on the control room's lights. The next step, the company said, is to get air conditioning in the room so workers can enter and work there.

Not a major breakthrough since obviously many of the systems are damaged, but it's good to see something good happening with the power supply.On a related note:China Syndrome on IMDBMOVIEmeter: Up 319% in popularity this week. See why on IMDbPro!

good news, perhaps Tepco has been overestimating the damage in the No. 1 and No. 2 reactors as well.

 

[Fennis]

Earlier Tuesday, TEPCO Vice President Sakae Muto said the No. 1 and No. 2 reactors at the plant suffered more damage than originally believed and will take more time to repair.

 

[Otis]

Earlier Tuesday, TEPCO Vice President Sakae Muto said the No. 1 and No. 2 reactors at the plant suffered more damage than originally believed and will take more time to repair.

How many were killed by the radiation so far?

 

[Biabreakable]

Being outside in Tokyo like smoking one cigarette per hour.

This is an example of what is pissing me off.

My dad used to say you can judge the size of a man's character by the size of the things that piss him off. Take it easy, B.

Well considering there is no such thing as a size of a persons character both you and your dad can stick it where the sun don't shine.If you want to make comparisons to pettiness just see where your pointing out my dyslexia when it comes to i and e.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

Environmental activist George Monbiot:

You will not be surprised to hear that the events in Japan have changed my view of nuclear power. You will be surprised to hear how they have changed it. As a result of the disaster at Fukushima, I am no longer nuclear-neutral. I now support the technology.

A crappy old plant with inadequate safety features was hit by a monster earthquake and a vast tsunami. The electricity supply failed, knocking out the cooling system. The reactors began to explode and melt down. The disaster exposed a familiar legacy of poor design and corner-cutting. Yet, as far as we know, no one has yet received a lethal dose of radiation.

Some greens have wildly exaggerated the dangers of radioactive pollution. For a clearer view, look at the graphic published by xkcd.com. It shows that the average total dose from the Three Mile Island disaster for someone living within 10 miles of the plant was one 625th of the maximum yearly amount permitted for US radiation workers. This, in turn, is half of the lowest one-year dose clearly linked to an increased cancer risk, which, in its turn, is one 80th of an invariably fatal exposure. I'm not proposing complacency here. I am proposing perspective.

Edit to add his comments on the xkcd chart

Logic and facts don't come into play amongst the folk I know. They hear nuclear and insist it's scary and dangerous. Here's hoping other folk aren't like them.

 

[GreatLakesMike]

Being outside in Tokyo like smoking one cigarette per hour.

This is an example of what is pissing me off.

My dad used to say you can judge the size of a man's character by the size of the things that piss him off. Take it easy, B.

Well considering there is no such thing as a size of a persons character both you and your dad can stick it where the sun don't shine.If you want to make comparisons to pettiness just see where your pointing out my dyslexia when it comes to i and e.

 

[GreatLakesMike]

sorry to steal shtick, but its time for the full linkhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSjK2Oqrgic

That's weapons grade uranium, completely different.

 

[Fennis]

Earlier Tuesday, TEPCO Vice President Sakae Muto said the No. 1 and No. 2 reactors at the plant suffered more damage than originally believed and will take more time to repair.

How many were killed by the radiation so far?

I don't know. How many babies drank contaminated milk?