Russell has exceptional arm strength, but what could make it even more lethal is that he is BIG and strong like bull. He can summon up his arm strength from any platform, much like Vince Young.
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:MERGED: *** JaMarcus Russell Thread *** (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter rabidfireweasel
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rabidfireweasel
Footballguy
Post Sugar Bowl bump
Kilgore Trout
Footballguy
I don't watch much college ball, and this is the first time I saw Russell play. Definitely has one of the best arms I have seen in a long while. He's almost too big to be real mobile, but will be hard to bring down. I'm impressed and would love to see what he can do in the NFL.
what impressed me the most was for such a hulking physical specimen, he clearly throws with touch, accuracy & poise... i agree with a pre-game comparison (hate to admit i agree with what may have been terry bradshaw 
), but doug williams (on steroids) probably more apt comparison than culpepper...
he clearly outplayed quinn, so if quinn was consensus #1 before game (not sure he was... thomas, gaines, calvin johnson & peterson will also grade pretty high), it may not be too far a stretch to think OAK & DET would consider him at 1-2... i was really, really impressed...
), but doug williams (on steroids) probably more apt comparison than culpepper...he clearly outplayed quinn, so if quinn was consensus #1 before game (not sure he was... thomas, gaines, calvin johnson & peterson will also grade pretty high), it may not be too far a stretch to think OAK & DET would consider him at 1-2... i was really, really impressed...
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
consider me impressed, granted it was notre dame and I really dont have a ton of time to watch college ball. The Raiders should take him over Quinn for sure. If they are leaning QB at all. Stupid Lions blew it, someone will probably want to move up to get him.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
I see no Earthly way Al Davis can pass on this kid...he's everything Davis loves in a QB. Big, strong, huge arm...if Davis is still controlling the Raiders draft (i.e., if he's still breathing), I have to think Russell has the edge over Quinn for top honors.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
You just described Andrew Walter.I'd be surprised if the Raiders go QB.
I hope he does well on the Wonderlic 
Seriously, it sucks that Brady Quinn is still probably going to go earlier than Russell. That being said, if you put Quinn behind LSU's O-Line...
I say Quinn's stock drops to the 9th or 10th pick, and Russell becomes a late first round pick. If you're a team looking for a potential project QB of the future (St. Louis? Kansas City? Texans? Panthers?) then Russell becomes very appealing as a value pick.
Seriously, it sucks that Brady Quinn is still probably going to go earlier than Russell. That being said, if you put Quinn behind LSU's O-Line...
I say Quinn's stock drops to the 9th or 10th pick, and Russell becomes a late first round pick. If you're a team looking for a potential project QB of the future (St. Louis? Kansas City? Texans? Panthers?) then Russell becomes very appealing as a value pick.
Gold Plated Nails
Footballguy
By late first round do you mean the third overall pick or the fourth? That's about as far as I can see him falling.I hope he does well on the Wonderlic
Weapon of Mass Instruction
Watch my feet!
He'll be a top 5 pick. I'm not saying what he should be, just what he will be.
Buckle
Footballguy
Man, first time I've seen him. I can't believe how he can pitch a 50 yarder no problem.
Love to see the Dolphins draft him if he falls to them. Would be perfect fit for them to have a Culpepper/Russell playbook just for the two since they're basically the same type of QB.
Love to see the Dolphins draft him if he falls to them. Would be perfect fit for them to have a Culpepper/Russell playbook just for the two since they're basically the same type of QB.
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Drew RosenhausFan
Footballguy
im sorry man, but this entire paragraph is just silly. Both players are a lock for the top 10 (probably top 5) at this point unless quinn starts crying in his interviews or russel puts down "red" for every answer in the wonderlic
I guess I just see the majority of the NFL GMs and coaches being smarter than picking an overrated QB or a project QB over players that could be the foundations of winning seasons to come. You must be a pessimist.
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
He forgot to mention two things Russel has that Walter does not - accuracy and mobility. Not run for the first mobility, but escape the sack mobility.His accuracy and arm strength on the move are very impressive - I am reminded a little of Steve Young when i watch him on the move.Also, noone - and I mean noone - on any Raiders roster, in any year, can throw the ball as far as Russel. Kids got the biggest cannon I've sen in a long time.Gr00vus said:
Drew RosenhausFan
Footballguy
i guess you dont watch too many lions or raiders games
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
Darn straight.Good thing Russel is the real deal. His mechanics are closer to "NFL-ready" than Vince Young's were last year. Vince did just fine this past year. I think Russel can do just as well.I also fail to see how the NFL combine will do anything except boost his stock. He has all the measurables that they rate at the combine.
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Gr00vus
Footballguy
It'll need to be if he's going to have any success in Oakland any time soon - as their offensive line is about as bad as I've ever seen an NFL offensive line be. Even then being mobile didn't really help Aaron Brooks much did it? Which is another reason why I don't think they go QB, their needs elsewhere are much, much more pressing.
Drew RosenhausFan
Footballguy
ok, now im officially confused. johnny says that quinn and russell are "overrated" and "a project" I disagree. He makes some bizarre comment about NFL GM's which made no sense, and you agreed with him
somewhere, someone's words got mixed up. For the record....I think quinn is slightly overrated, but will still be a solid NFL QB. The only way he drops as low as johnny predicted is if some sort of emotional issue comes out in his interviews. This draft isnt strong enough to drop him from the top 5 picks.I think russell is definetly not a project. He has a strong accurage arm, massive size, great mobility and seems to be pretty poised (although the ND defense isnt a great test) Even if he bombs the wonderlic, he's still going top 10 at the worst. Johnny seems to think he'd be lucky to sneak into the late first.my comments about the combine were obviously kidding. Both will test out well if they attend. Id love to represent both of them
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Gr00vus
Footballguy
If this isn't the real Drew Rosenhaus (and I don't think it is), your schtick is weak.If it is the real Drew Rosenhaus, well, your schtick is weak and offensive.
massraider
Footballguy
Yes, they are, and if they were to take Peterson or Calvin Johnson, one could say the same thing.Passing on a franchise QB because you have other needs is a mistake, IMO. They need to fix the line, this is true. But taking a QB doesn't preclude them from fixing the line, does it?
He could bomb the interviews. But some teams will overlook that because of
physical tools.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Certainly not, but I think it makes the job tougher. Not only is there the use of the pick (either to take a lineman there, or play up the hype and then trade it for some depth), but there's the salary to think about. How much can the Raiders afford to have tied up in QBs? How would you unload Brooks? What happens to Walter? Unless you work something out with them, which would be difficult I think, paying #1 pick in the draft dollars to a QB would make it that much tougher to improve up front.Meanwhile Den, Pit and AZ are grabbing guys like Cutler, Roethlisberger and Leinart later on in the round. No guys like that aren't always there, but it's possible.Don't get me wrong, this guy's a nice prospect - but is he really that much above someone else you might take later on in the draft, next year perhaps, or even Walter given a chance behind an average offensive line? I'm not comfortable with that. I think the Raiders are better off going another direction.
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
Nope - I knew exactly what he said. I just spun it positively. No NFL GM would take an overrated QB or a project in the top-5Darned straight they wouldn't.Which is why they'll take Russel there.ok, now im officially confused. johnny says that quinn and russell are "overrated" and "a project" I disagree. He makes some bizarre comment about NFL GM's which made no sense, and you agreed with him
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
Didn't take long for Manning to be playing behind one of the worst lines in the league to one of the best (talking about Peyton).It is easier to build a good line around a franchise QB using 2nd/3rd rounders then it is to build a dominant line and then get the franchise QB. Might not win S.B.s, but you get competitive faster.
Are you sure you've watched him play?
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Gr00vus
Footballguy
I think there are at least as many anecdotal examples of the converse. How's that David Carr thing working out for instance?It's much easier to develop a QB behind an average offensive line than it is to try it behind one of the worst in a very long time. Also you need the 2nd and 3rd rounders to be able to actually draft people, which would make trading down for depth adviseable especially if you could find someone who's gotten star struck by Russell (the way many on this board seem to be) willing to pay a kings ransom.And please tell me you're not serious in comparing this kid to Peyton Manning.
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Gr00vus
Footballguy
Yes, what's your point?
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
Not at all.I am comparing it to the situation.The Colts' OL pre-Manning and in Manning's first year was HORRENDOUS. He made them look like an average line in year two with his quick release.By Manning's third year, the Colts OL was getting good.GrOOvus, if you have watched him play, why are you making this statement?
In short - YES, he is that much better than anyone available later in this draft, anyone available next year (considering he's a junior thinking of coming out, I think that answers itself), and your comparison to Walter is, well . . .yes, Russel is "mo betta" than Walters to a greater degree than VY is better than Kerry Collins.
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Gr00vus
Footballguy
I disagree, plain and simple. I think it's hardly ever that cut and dry. I think there are plenty of question marks about this guy, moreso than what I thought about Vince Young last year, to believe that you may not be missing that much if you take your chances elsewhere. And Walter has shown flashes of having the goods to be a pretty good qb if he can get some protection.It's funny, all year long it was Brady Quinn this and Brady Quinn that. Now one game later it's JaMarcus Russell this and JaMarcus Russell that. Will it be Troy Smith this and Troy Smith that if he goes off next week too?I think people have lost some perspective here.
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
Good on ya, GrOOvus. Disagreement is what makes the talk on this board great. And I respect your viewpoint.
I don't think it was one big game that got Russel into the spotlight, though. I think it's been Quinn all year b/c everyone knew he'd be coming out for the draft as a senior.
Russel's had a lot of noise his way, as all Jr.s do, after the season was over and talk of him coming out popped up.
I don't think it was one big game that got Russel into the spotlight, though. I think it's been Quinn all year b/c everyone knew he'd be coming out for the draft as a senior.
Russel's had a lot of noise his way, as all Jr.s do, after the season was over and talk of him coming out popped up.
massraider
Footballguy
This is a minor consideration. The Raiders have plenty of cap space right now, and Brooks' deal is very friendly. He is easily cut as well. Walter is a 3rd rounder. BTW, I'm not convinced that Walter is a bum. Hasn't been given a shot with any kind of protection, or receivers that felt like catching the ball.
Here's the problem, what's that other direction? Let's assume they don't trade down. Which is unlikely. Al Davis rarely trades down, and the #1 pick isn't an easy thing to move. So what's the other direction? Joe Thomas? Is he the next Orlando Pace? Because, to use your argument, teams are grabbing Levi Jones and Tarik Glenn's and Walter Jones later than the #1 pick. I haven't seen anyone call him the best prospect since Orlando, and that's what you want to hear if you take an OT #1. Knee surgeries in his past as well.Adrian Peterson? Well, yes, taking Tomlinson for the Chargers did work, but RB's fall out of the trees in the NFL. Every round in the draft has 1,000 yard rushers. Look at the Broncos and Chiefs. Their RB's aren't coming from the top 5.Calvin Johnson? I can't believe I would have to explain what is wrong with this pick. WR must have the highest bust rate in the draft, and a WR is dependent on a strong QB, and an O-line to protect him. We have neither. Taking Calvin Johnson is like buying rims for a non-existant car.Here's the thing: It's a gamble either way, and they have multiple holes to fix either way. So if the #1 pick is a lottery ticket, I'd rather have the Powerball payoff than the Pick 4 payoff.BTW, I am speaking in generalities here. I have no strong feeling about Russell and Quinn's pro prospects, or how they rank vs. Cutler, Leinart, etc. I am only making a statement about the notion that taking a QB in this position is a mistake. If Quinn or Russell don't impress you, fair enough. Can't really make a case one way or the other.Any team picking 1st has multiple holes. But the franchise ones are hard to come by, and if they have a shot at one, they should take it.
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maxwell1295
Footballguy
Colin Dowling
Footballguy
Russell's emergence (meaning "it's now obvious to everyone that he is a top talent) will have more affect on Troy Smith and Drew Stanton then Brady Quinn. I don't care much for Quinn; I don't like how he throws the ball and he seems to melt when the lights are brightest. I actually think he's most equivilant to Chris Simms, albeit with a better (not great) ability to read defenses.
However, someone in the top-5 will find a reason to take QUinn just as someone in the top-5 will find a reason to take Russell. As such, Stanton and Smith are going to need to look fantastic in workouts to go anywhere near round 1. If I had to guess, I'd see Quinn and Russell going 1/2 in some fashion, and Smith and Stanton falling to the 2nd where Cleveland, Houston, and possilbly Miami select.
*I'd LOVE to see Tennessee trade up to Tampa/Cleveland at #3 for Calvin Johnson. THey have the picks to do so, and both the Browns and Bucs would appear to be needing the depth that some additional first day picks would deliver.
However, someone in the top-5 will find a reason to take QUinn just as someone in the top-5 will find a reason to take Russell. As such, Stanton and Smith are going to need to look fantastic in workouts to go anywhere near round 1. If I had to guess, I'd see Quinn and Russell going 1/2 in some fashion, and Smith and Stanton falling to the 2nd where Cleveland, Houston, and possilbly Miami select.
*I'd LOVE to see Tennessee trade up to Tampa/Cleveland at #3 for Calvin Johnson. THey have the picks to do so, and both the Browns and Bucs would appear to be needing the depth that some additional first day picks would deliver.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
I agree with pretty much everything you said and you have your finger on the pulse of the Raiders' dilemma. There is no clear cut #1 right now and everyone knows that which will make it difficult to get a major payday trading the pick (unless a team falls in love with one of these guys and panics). Quinn and Russell don't strike me as locks to be great (I realize I'm in a minority right now with Russell) and both have their question marks, they are somewhat gambles here along with the other guys you've mentioned. Like you said I don't think Walter has been given anything like a fair look here and he's better than he performed this season, plus you've still got Brooks on the books. To me that makes taking a QB with the pick (assuming you don't trade it) less desireable than gambling on one of the other guys at one of the other positions. Considering the amount of help the Raiders need up front I think you take shots early but also often throughout this draft with offensive linemen, upping the probability that you'll land a couple of good ones, whether it's the guy you took #1 or the guy you took in round three - up the pool from which you have to draw from. If not that, then I think Johnson would be a pretty good way to go for them as long as they can get out from under Moss and Porter. Maybe Peterson if you're unhappy with Jordan, although I think he's suffering from the same problem as Walter - a miserable offensive line.In a year where there isn't a stand out QB in the Peyton Manning mold (if there were I'd not argue this point), given the Raiders' problem that they're not going to get anywhere (including not being able to effectively develop a QB) until serious improvement is made on the offensive line, it seems like a bad idea to me to gamble on another QB with the draft pick.
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diesel7982
Footballguy
Sorry if Honda
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
I looked elsewhere. Nothing yet, but since this is basically concerning an agent, that seems like the kind of story PFT scoops. They got Metz by name. I'm buying.
mrhankey
Footballguy
With the way the draft order has shaken out, it is not very QB friendly in the top 10. Oakland and Detroit both need QB's immediately, however, both have glaring needs all over the field. I hope Oakland does not make the same mistake that Houston made last year. If they have learned anything, they would trade down and get more quality players. Detroit needs O-line help and Kitna should be serviceable for a year or two. Cleveland (Frye - maybe), Tampa Bay (Simms), Arizona (Leinart), and Washington (Campbell) should be secure in their starting jobs next year. This leaves only the top 2 spots in the top 6 open to possible QB selections (barring a trade-down).
I'd like to see Jamarcus go to Detroit. He'd be a monster with their receiving corps. Man wouldn't that make Matt Millen look like a genius.
Jamarcus is the man, but don't forget that he has 3 receivers that are probably 3rd round or better picks in Dwayne Bowe, Buster Davis and Early Doucet. Surround a stud QB with this talent and he's bound to look like the best QB in football (ask Peyton Manning and he'll attest to that).
The 7, 8, 9 picks with Houston, Minnesota and Miami (usure of the exact order) should all be looking QB at this point. I think you will probably see 2 QB's selected in the top 10. I think Baltimore, KC and Chicago should be 3 teams looking to trade up for a QB if they don't make it to the superbowl. To answer the question...Jamarcus Russell is a top 10 selection and probably will be rated (maybe not selected as) as the #1 or #2 QB in the draft class.
I'd like to see Jamarcus go to Detroit. He'd be a monster with their receiving corps. Man wouldn't that make Matt Millen look like a genius.
Jamarcus is the man, but don't forget that he has 3 receivers that are probably 3rd round or better picks in Dwayne Bowe, Buster Davis and Early Doucet. Surround a stud QB with this talent and he's bound to look like the best QB in football (ask Peyton Manning and he'll attest to that).The 7, 8, 9 picks with Houston, Minnesota and Miami (usure of the exact order) should all be looking QB at this point. I think you will probably see 2 QB's selected in the top 10. I think Baltimore, KC and Chicago should be 3 teams looking to trade up for a QB if they don't make it to the superbowl. To answer the question...Jamarcus Russell is a top 10 selection and probably will be rated (maybe not selected as) as the #1 or #2 QB in the draft class.
Colin Dowling
Footballguy
How is the top 10 not QB friendly? No fewer then 5 of the top 10 teams need to address the QB spot.
diesel7982
Footballguy
Im usually not a big fan of guys coming out early, but in Russell's case, Id advise him to leave and not touch a football until April 29th.
pantherclub
Footballguy
Huh? /\
Weiner Dog
Footballguy
Ignoring Young's monster rookie season, which player is/was considered a better prospect entering the draft (...assuming Russell officially declares)??
the hairy scotsman
Footballguy
I'd say VY, but JR looks outstanding.
BigJim®
Footballguy
Nothing earth shattering there. He's just saying Russell should allow himself to be drafted top 10 based on the bowl game merits if he's coming out, which were pretty impressive. Partaking in silly events and talent contests may drop his stock and turn it into a decision he regrets.
redman
Footballguy
Ignoring for the moment that Young has actually played in the NFL and successfully led his team to victory, I don't think these two guys can be compared fully.
Young runs like a significantly smaller guy and and is able to use that ability to avoid sacks and scramble for yards. He's learning how to pass in the NFL and will undoubtedly use that mobility to successfully buy time to make passing plays.
I think, coming out of college, Russell will have better raw passing skills than Young, and perhaps the strongest throwing arm in the league right away. He is clearly less mobile than Young (Russell's aspirations to be compared to Randal Cunningham aside
), so there's already a ceiling on his abilities.
In short:
Young:
More mobile
More athletic
Superior leader
Russell:
Better passer (coming out of college)
Stronger arm
I would roughly equate them (again, as we see them coming out of college) in terms of their draft value, but obviously its for different reasons.
Young runs like a significantly smaller guy and and is able to use that ability to avoid sacks and scramble for yards. He's learning how to pass in the NFL and will undoubtedly use that mobility to successfully buy time to make passing plays.
I think, coming out of college, Russell will have better raw passing skills than Young, and perhaps the strongest throwing arm in the league right away. He is clearly less mobile than Young (Russell's aspirations to be compared to Randal Cunningham aside
), so there's already a ceiling on his abilities.In short:
Young:
More mobile
More athletic
Superior leader
Russell:
Better passer (coming out of college)
Stronger arm
I would roughly equate them (again, as we see them coming out of college) in terms of their draft value, but obviously its for different reasons.
Weiner Dog
Footballguy
Solid logic. Thanks.Ignoring for the moment that Young has actually played in the NFL and successfully led his team to victory, I don't think these two guys can be compared fully. Young runs like a significantly smaller guy and and is able to use that ability to avoid sacks and scramble for yards. He's learning how to pass in the NFL and will undoubtedly use that mobility to successfully buy time to make passing plays. I think, coming out of college, Russell will have better raw passing skills than Young, and perhaps the strongest throwing arm in the league right away. He is clearly less mobile than Young (Russell's aspirations to be compared to Randal Cunningham aside
rockbottom895
Footballguy
In my opinion, its without question Jamarcus Russel. When Vince entered the draft, there were always questions about his side arm throw, or that the defenses were too fast for him to run all over them. Even though Vince supposedly had a "monster" year, I still feel that Russell will be a better NFL player. Monster QB year doesn't mean a QB rating of 66.7 DONT BUY INTO THE HYPE OF YOUNG.
ILoveMyLions
Footballguy
I think you have to add to that Young's intangibles besides leadership to that list. His poise under pressure and rising to the occassion are perhaps his greatest strengths as a football player. I haven't seen that nearly as much with Russell. The Florida game, and perhaps the Tennessee and Auburn game are good examples of that. Young refused to lose and lead many comebacks against what some would consider superior opponents and/or defenses his last year in college.Ignoring for the moment that Young has actually played in the NFL and successfully led his team to victory, I don't think these two guys can be compared fully. Young runs like a significantly smaller guy and and is able to use that ability to avoid sacks and scramble for yards. He's learning how to pass in the NFL and will undoubtedly use that mobility to successfully buy time to make passing plays. I think, coming out of college, Russell will have better raw passing skills than Young, and perhaps the strongest throwing arm in the league right away. He is clearly less mobile than Young (Russell's aspirations to be compared to Randal Cunningham aside
