Michael Lombardi (1 Viewer)

[Bri]

Why do so many people love this guy?

I think he's very informative and have enjoyed reading his stuff and his site National Football Post even after he left.

We beat up the Raiders here for their player decisions and have done so for as long as this board has been around. Lombardi was Al Davis' senior personnel executive and liason from 1999-2007. (I do understand they did well with Gannon and Rice in the middle of that run)

We call Bellichick's time in Cleveland as a debacle. Consider it almost un-BB like or somesuch. Lombardi was his pro personnel director.

So what are we doing?

Is it like when you bash a famous player on these boards and run into him in person and say "hey I'm your biggest fan. You're awesome!"

How would you characterize the fans mindset here? Hypocritical?

 

[Steed]

I think he gets a pass b/c even if he was Al Davis' consiglieri, most know that doesn't mean much. Al does what Al wants and there's no talking any sense into him.

 

[DawnBTVS]

I'd say that there is a pretty decent disconnect between talent evaluation and the "lack" of success Belichick had in Cleveland (the guy went 11-5 in 1994 and even won a playoff game!)

The Browns were pretty good at coming up with talent in the NFL Draft from 1991-1994.

- CB Eric King

- DT James Jones

- WR Michael Jackson

- LB Gerald Dixon

- C Steve Everitt

- LB Mike Caldwell

- CB Antonio Langham

- WR Derrick Alexander

One of the reasons I personally like Lombardi is that he does have skill at evaluating talent in terms of players who have NFL success. Did he find a ton of Hall of Fame talent? No as the guys above attest. But he has a tendency to find players who are either good or at least solid who can/do have somewhat long careers in the NFL (if you count 6+ seasons as long).

As for Oakland... you are going to penalize the guy? EVERYBODY knows that Al Davis has the final word there. It doesn't matter if Lombardi wanted a guy who was a future Hall of Famer in a draft, if Al wanted a different player, Al was going to get that player. If anything, I'd argue the success that Oakland had in the early 2000's should be a credit to Lombardi and his ability to draft decent to solid players.

From 1998-2002 Oakland went 49-31 before it all tumbled with Davis falling in love with questionable talent and hiring Art Shell to coach.

 

[identikit]

I'd say that there is a pretty decent disconnect between talent evaluation and the "lack" of success Belichick had in Cleveland (the guy went 11-5 in 1994 and even won a playoff game!)

The Browns were pretty good at coming up with talent in the NFL Draft from 1991-1994.

- CB Eric King

- DT James Jones

- WR Michael Jackson

- LB Gerald Dixon

- C Steve Everitt

- LB Mike Caldwell

- CB Antonio Langham

- WR Derrick Alexander

One of the reasons I personally like Lombardi is that he does have skill at evaluating talent in terms of players who have NFL success. Did he find a ton of Hall of Fame talent? No as the guys above attest. But he has a tendency to find players who are either good or at least solid who can/do have somewhat long careers in the NFL (if you count 6+ seasons as long).

As for Oakland... you are going to penalize the guy? EVERYBODY knows that Al Davis has the final word there. It doesn't matter if Lombardi wanted a guy who was a future Hall of Famer in a draft, if Al wanted a different player, Al was going to get that player. If anything, I'd argue the success that Oakland had in the early 2000's should be a credit to Lombardi and his ability to draft decent to solid players.

From 1998-2002 Oakland went 49-31 before it all tumbled with Davis falling in love with questionable talent and hiring Art Shell to coach.

Nice succinct post with some actual information. Far cry from the the pretty disjointed and ambiguous beginning post.

Lombardi brings some great insight and also some original inside information to the table.

Love listening to/reading his stuff.

 

[coolnerd]

I think analyzing the decision of others and communicating the general landscape of the profession is a different skill, thus should be judged differently than doing the day in and day out task of that job.

 

[loose circuits]

the only one worse on that network is Jason LaCanfora who is right as much as he is wrong

 

[Bri]

I think analyzing the decision of others and communicating the general landscape of the profession is a different skill, thus should be judged differently than doing the day in and day out task of that job.

thats a good point

 

[DawgPoundNJ]

Why do so many people love this guy?

I think he's very informative and have enjoyed reading his stuff and his site National Football Post even after he left.

We beat up the Raiders here for their player decisions and have done so for as long as this board has been around. Lombardi was Al Davis' senior personnel executive and liason from 1999-2007. (I do understand they did well with Gannon and Rice in the middle of that run)

We call Bellichick's time in Cleveland as a debacle. Consider it almost un-BB like or somesuch. Lombardi was his pro personnel director.

So what are we doing?

Is it like when you bash a famous player on these boards and run into him in person and say "hey I'm your biggest fan. You're awesome!"

How would you characterize the fans mindset here? Hypocritical?

I agree. There's a reason he's an EX front office guy. As a Cleveland Browns fan, it's comical that he still thinks he is an authority on the Browns. He went on record that Jamal Lewis was going to be released at cut day (he wasn't), that Joe Haden is not a top ten pick that doesn't have the speed to play corner (he's proven he does) and has been known to have a disdain for Eric Mangini to the point where journalistic integrity can be questioned with some of his reports on the Browns when Mangini was there.

Not the biggest fan of the guy.

 

[purplejesus28]

He is informative. When he talks about the process of evaluating, it usually is something that makes sense. Right or wrong on the player, what he says tends to seem plausible at the time he says it.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

The Browns were pretty good at coming up with talent in the NFL Draft from 1991-1994.- CB Eric King- DT James Jones- WR Michael Jackson- LB Gerald Dixon- C Steve Everitt- LB Mike Caldwell- CB Antonio Langham- WR Derrick Alexander

With the 9th pick in the 1992 draft, the Cleveland Browns select Tommy Vardell.Lombardi was Director of Player Personnel, with final say on all personnel decisions, from 1992 to 1996. The first 3 players you mention are from 1991. This is the 1995 Draft:

1 	30 	Craig Powell 	LB 	11/13/1971 	Ohio State3 	84 	Eric Zeier 	QB 	09/06/1972 	Georgia3 	94 	Mike Frederick 	DE 	08/06/1972 	Virginia5 	136 	Tau Pupua 	DT 	08/25/1971 	Weber State5 	147 	Mike Miller 	WR 	06/09/1972 	Notre Dame7 	231 	A.C. Tellison 	WR 	09/05/1971 	Miami

 

[massraider]

As for Oakland... you are going to penalize the guy? EVERYBODY knows that Al Davis has the final word there. It doesn't matter if Lombardi wanted a guy who was a future Hall of Famer in a draft, if Al wanted a different player, Al was going to get that player. If anything, I'd argue the success that Oakland had in the early 2000's should be a credit to Lombardi and his ability to draft decent to solid players.

From 1998-2002 Oakland went 49-31 before it all tumbled with Davis falling in love with questionable talent and hiring Art Shell to coach.

Why would you argue that success was tied to Lombardi, when in the previous sentence you stated, pretty strongly, that Al had the final word?Did Al draft the bad players, and Lombardi draft the good players? Is that how it went down?

 

[Obie Wan]

As for Oakland... you are going to penalize the guy? EVERYBODY knows that Al Davis has the final word there. It doesn't matter if Lombardi wanted a guy who was a future Hall of Famer in a draft, if Al wanted a different player, Al was going to get that player. If anything, I'd argue the success that Oakland had in the early 2000's should be a credit to Lombardi and his ability to draft decent to solid players.

From 1998-2002 Oakland went 49-31 before it all tumbled with Davis falling in love with questionable talent and hiring Art Shell to coach.

Why would you argue that success was tied to Lombardi, when in the previous sentence you stated, pretty strongly, that Al had the final word?Did Al draft the bad players, and Lombardi draft the good players? Is that how it went down?

that's how it works in Buffaloafter the season, Modrak actually gives you his list of who wanted to draft but was overruled on (all players who had tremendous seasons, of course)

 

[DawnBTVS]

As for Oakland... you are going to penalize the guy? EVERYBODY knows that Al Davis has the final word there. It doesn't matter if Lombardi wanted a guy who was a future Hall of Famer in a draft, if Al wanted a different player, Al was going to get that player. If anything, I'd argue the success that Oakland had in the early 2000's should be a credit to Lombardi and his ability to draft decent to solid players.

From 1998-2002 Oakland went 49-31 before it all tumbled with Davis falling in love with questionable talent and hiring Art Shell to coach.

Why would you argue that success was tied to Lombardi, when in the previous sentence you stated, pretty strongly, that Al had the final word?Did Al draft the bad players, and Lombardi draft the good players? Is that how it went down?

It's pretty much well known that Al usually favors some questionable players strongly (see JaMarcus Russell, Darrius Heyward-Bey) but with that said, I didn't mean to come off that every single player was purely an Al Davis or purely a Lombardi choice. Both had a say in who got drafted but Al obviously had the stronger voice of the two. Considering the success the Raiders had and couple that with Al's notorious ability to draft mainly for speed/impressive workouts, somebody had to be a potential voice of reason on draft picks and free agent acquisitions.Given the recent seasons, it's notable that fans were praising Al and the Raiders for their 2010 Draft primarily because they didn't take workout warriors like Bruce Campbell until Round 4 when in the past they may have taken him in Round 1 or 2 instead. As it is, they have still focused on speed at WR with Heyward-Bey, Louis Murphy, and Jacoby Ford in just the past 2 drafts alone and Al's love for speed/impressive workouts continues to hang over every NFL Draft in terms of its success or failure.

With the 9th pick in the 1992 draft, the Cleveland Browns select Tommy Vardell.

Lombardi was Director of Player Personnel, with final say on all personnel decisions, from 1992 to 1996. The first 3 players you mention are from 1991. This is the 1995 Draft

Like I said, he was pretty good at picking up players. Was he perfect? No. But he still made 8 selections that had fairly solid long careers in the NFL. There are teams who currently wish they could have 8 solid draft picks in the span of the 4 year window I looked at.As for the 1995 draft, you also need to remember that the team promptly moved to Baltimore and had a new head coach the very next season who likely brought in his guys (as many, many coaches do when they first take over a team).

As it is, Eric Zeier was a 3rd round pick who was able to get into games from 1995 through 2000. He finished with a career 16 TD to 15 INT ratio. 3rd round pick DE Mike Frederick started 11 games for those '96 Ravens and then spent time as a STer through the 1999 season. Neither was flashy but Zeier could have been solid if given a chance (had 7 TD to 1 INT in 3 starts at one point).

 

[massraider]

It's pretty much well known that Al usually favors some questionable players strongly (see JaMarcus Russell, Darrius Heyward-Bey) but with that said, I didn't mean to come off that every single player was purely an Al Davis or purely a Lombardi choice. Both had a say in who got drafted but Al obviously had the stronger voice of the two. Considering the success the Raiders had and couple that with Al's notorious ability to draft mainly for speed/impressive workouts, somebody had to be a potential voice of reason on draft picks and free agent acquisitions.

The only thing that is pretty much well known is that Al is the final word on all picks. Picking and choosing players that Al gets credit or blame for is simply impossible. No one has ever really opened up and talked about players that Al didn't want; not Gruden, Kiffin, or anyone. I recall Al talking about how Kiffin didn't want Russell, and that is pretty much it.I hear this same thing with Gruden, where people assume all moves made when he was coach were all Gruden, and anything that worked was nothing to do with Al. If he is the meddlesome, megalomaniacal owner that won't let anyone else make a move, then he gets credit for good picks, and all the blame for bad picks.Or how about this, Lombardi gets partial credit for good picks, and partial blame for bad picks?