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Mike Brown...ok you were right (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Bri
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Heatman
Footballguy
Living in Cincinnati I can not laugh hard enough about this post. Could have had 2 1sts a couple years ago for Chad OIthinkImgreat and didn't take it. This is more of an I can't pass it up again deal.
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
blind pig finds acorn
Sea Duck
Footballguy
This one has been debunked time and time again. It's an urban legend.
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
-QGThe Raiders bailed him out.
Bottom line, he would have held onto Palmer in spite bc Palmer reneged on his deal.
Brown would have gladly bypassed a second rounder in exchange for forcing Palmer to sit out 2011, and deal him for a 4th next April......
In the end, he absolutely looks like a genius, but living in Cincy, I can't give him total credit.
Bottom line, he would have held onto Palmer in spite bc Palmer reneged on his deal.
Brown would have gladly bypassed a second rounder in exchange for forcing Palmer to sit out 2011, and deal him for a 4th next April......
In the end, he absolutely looks like a genius, but living in Cincy, I can't give him total credit.
Hoss_Cartwright
Footballguy
I thought it was a blind squirrel?
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
And he's right twice a day.
DoubleG
Footballguy
Just like a broken watch.
Sweet Love
IBL Representative
He does deserve some credit, but if Campbell does not get hurt two days before the trade deadline, in the year the Raiders owner passed (who likely would not have made the deal), then he would be stuck with nothing. Personally, I think the deal he deserves credit for is the Ocho one this summer. Getting a fourth back for a diva receiver who is washed up made Belicheck a "genius" last year and you here nere a peep out of people commending Brown on the same deal. That was a calculated move; this was more of a "lucky" situation.
habsfan
Footballguy
Given the QB youth movement, the relative success those rookie QBs are having and with guys like Garrard in the wings etc, there's no way Brown could have been confident that his strategy was going to work out. I think teams would have serious misgivings about taking Palmer off the shelf, knocking a year of dust off him and getting 1st round value.
The Comedian
Footballguy
He was right? Why, did he say that some day some team would overpay a tremendous amount for Palmer?
He was being stubborn, because he is stubborn, and Oakland bailed him out. Let's not go overboard here.
He was being stubborn, because he is stubborn, and Oakland bailed him out. Let's not go overboard here.
Stinkin Ref
IBL Representative
no horse in the race one way or the other....but I did have some admiration for Brown standing pat and not letting the players dictate everything......it was probably a very tough stance to take and he got a ton of crap for it, and while it may not have made much business sense, not setting the precedent of having players think they can demand trades goes a long way....personally I think he fleeced the Raiders in this deal, taking advantage of a franchise who just lost their starting QB, their hall of fame owner, and who thinks they can make the playoffs this year with a QB not named Boller.....he held out for a great deal
gandalas
Footballguy
Kitrick Taylor
Footballguy
As SSOG would say, bad process, good outcome.
Koya
Footballguy
Must every sarcastic post include a smiley?
(because this post has a tinge and some might miss it).
jurb26
Footballguy
I don't see how this justifies his stance at all. If you didn't agree with it before I can't see why this would change your mind. If you did agree with it before than I can't see it changing your mind as well. There is no way he could have forecasted that Campbell would have gotten hurt days before the trading deadline and Oak would be desperate to find a serviceable replacement. It sure worked out, no doubt about it. Had Campbell not gone down though, nothing would have change and no move would have been made.
Stinkin Ref
IBL Representative
thats the thing....he would have been fine with letting Palmer ride off into the sunset...this is even more than a "too good to pass up" deal......this is like hitting the lottery for the Bengals....no way is palmer worth 2 1st rounders.....does he really have that much left to justify that trade over the next 5 years.....?couple things I noticed from the pressers yesterday....1. Hue has some serious man love for Palmer.....and I think that combined with the panic mode of losing Campbell just set this franchise back a couple of steps...2. I found Palmer answer interesting when asked what he has been doing the last 6-7 weeks...he specifically mentioned training and being ready prior to the start of the season and then said after that he went into retirement mode.....never mentioned continuing to train at all over the last six weeks.....said he went to bed a retired man....he really dodged the question here and I think you will see the result if they play him too soon..3. can you imagine the pressure on Palmer right now after basically being proclaimed the savior and having the Raiders pay that kind of pricetag....I'm not sure Palmer has the will, desire to play, and the intestinal fortitude to produce at the level they will be expecting....let alone the physical tools at this point....4. also thought he dodged the question a little about is he concerned about a team that likes to stretch the field and one of the major concerns with him before he retired was his arm injury and lack of arm strength....he gave some sort of textbook answer...while I think it was a good move for OAK.....because Palmer may be serviceable for a short time....I think they paid way too much.....and in the long run I see this being just another huge.....
for this franchise....
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baconisgood
Footballguy
When you look at the best run teams in the league, the Saints, Pats, Packers, Steelers etc- how often do they have problem players? Players that want out get out and the team is little the worse for the wear. Some times they are even miles better off letting the player go ie Reggie Bush this season. If an owner feels compelled to make a stand it is almost always a sign of a ####ty owner, when management dumps a player- even a good player like Lawyer Milloy- and continues on with winning thats the sign of a good organization.
Mike Brown making this stand essentially said "I'm a crap owner- if I let one guy out everyone will leave because everyone knows I am crap".
cheese
Footballguy
Players not wanting to leave those teams has nothing to do with the team being one of the "best run", whatever that means. Its because those teams win. Let the Bengals go to the playoffs 3 or 4 yeras in a row and win a couple super bowls like those teams and then see who wants out.
baconisgood
Footballguy
So you are saying there is no correlation between a well run team and a winning team? The reason the Bengals have sucked for 20 years is their front office.
Stinkin Ref
IBL Representative
what do you think they could have got for Palmer.....say a week before the season....?....when he saying I am going to retire so you better get something for me...?it would not have been a 1st and a 1st/2nd.....no way
Brown showed that he was a man of his word and he wasn't going to budge until he gets a call at the 11th hour that is like Jessica Alba showing up at your door naked....
now an unprepared Palmer has to go to OAK of all places and live up to the expectations of a guy who just got traded for in essence two 1st round picks....and prove a coach who stuck his neck out for him right.....I'm not sure Carson has it in him
technically you are right....at the end of the story "Palmer got his trade"....but I have a sneaking suspicion that Palmer doesn't really feel like he won here.......
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cheese
Footballguy
There is a correlation between who is winning and what fans perceive to be a well run team. My only point is players want to play where the team is winning, regardless of how it is run. Saying that players wan to play for the Patriots doesn't prove that the Patriots are well run, nor does it prove that players care whether it is. It simply proves they are winning.
Did you read the second article? No idea if it true or not, but your first link is an ESPN article and your second one at Yahoo.com has a small Source: espn.com at the bottom which links to your first link. Maybe you knew that, but I thought it was funny that you put two links to support your point and the second was just a snippet/link back to the first one.
Pnishthm
Footballguy
Not sure how much he helped his team...Mike Brown will still be the one drafting players with those picks lol
massraider
Footballguy
I think its a bit disingenuous to just call Mike Brown lucky because Campbell went down, and the Raiders were desperate. Not like its never happened before. If you had posted in the wild predictions thread,"I predict a playoff contender loses their starting QB for an extended time", no one would say you went too far out on a limb.
He took a major risk, and it paid off. He got a bit of luck, but man, how many deals of any kind don't involve luck? Some team gets lucky with draft position, or they take the last QB prospect, it ain't their first choice, and they hit a home run. That's lucky.
I think Brown deserves props for ignoring an unhappy player's demands. Tough to set that precedent, and let players dictate the teams actions. The front office has to do what is best for the team, and Brown didn't feel pressure to make a move because of bad PR. No one can accuses him of caving, he got a really good deal.
Now, in two years, if AJ Green decides he's underpaid, and wants to test the resolve of the front office, he knows he can't push the team around, and it will cost him money if he wants to play that game. With the Bengals not being a team that throws money around, they have to play hardball. He comes out smelling like a rose on this one.
Maybe it was all luck, but Brown sticking to his guns allowed the team to be in a position to take advantage of that luck.
He took a major risk, and it paid off. He got a bit of luck, but man, how many deals of any kind don't involve luck? Some team gets lucky with draft position, or they take the last QB prospect, it ain't their first choice, and they hit a home run. That's lucky.
I think Brown deserves props for ignoring an unhappy player's demands. Tough to set that precedent, and let players dictate the teams actions. The front office has to do what is best for the team, and Brown didn't feel pressure to make a move because of bad PR. No one can accuses him of caving, he got a really good deal.
Now, in two years, if AJ Green decides he's underpaid, and wants to test the resolve of the front office, he knows he can't push the team around, and it will cost him money if he wants to play that game. With the Bengals not being a team that throws money around, they have to play hardball. He comes out smelling like a rose on this one.
Maybe it was all luck, but Brown sticking to his guns allowed the team to be in a position to take advantage of that luck.
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baconisgood
Footballguy
Its not just that itsA. A playoff contenderB. Before the trade deadline (which is way early in football)C. Had no backup to be confident inD. Had a head coach with a lot of familiarity with the playerF. Their starting QB was average anyway so upgrading him for the next 3-4 years was valuableE. It also possibly wouldn't have happened if Al Davis hadn't died the week before.Basically that leavesGB, Chi, Min, Det, Pitt, Bal, Cle, Dal, NYG, PHI, ARI, STL, SEA, ATL, CAR, NO, TB, Ten, Jac, IND, SD, KC, Den, NYJs, Hou, Mia and NE out of itSF- Perhaps. Somewhat similar situation- journeyman type QB playing OK with the team doing well. Was- But they seem happy to try Beck. Basically it had to be Oak or SF QB going down at just the right time for this trade to happen.
Stinkin Ref
IBL Representative
massraider's post is spot on and said much better than the way I tried to say it.....and his last part about Brown sticking to his guns and being in a position to take advantage of the luck is the key......and I think a couple more of those teams above may have been interested if the exact same thing happened to their starter and they were "in the hunt", so to speak.....don't think they would have given up as much, but would have taken a sniff....playoffs aren't out of the question for some of these, not all, but some and if the others were they would take a look....SEA, TEN, JAC, KC, MIA..........for as much of a beating he took.....Brown should get some love here....he got way more for Palmer than he ever would have had he caved in before the season like many though he should...would like to hear what people thought he might have been offered for Palmer before the season started had he been willing to cave in and deal him....?'baconisgood said:
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baconisgood
Footballguy
Minimum of a 1st rounder.McNabb pulled a 2nd and 4th- he was significantly older and had only 1 year left on his contract.Kolb went for a 2nd and a good player who was worth at least a 2nd himselfSchaub went for 2 2nds.Cutler went for 2 1sts a 3rd and Orton who was worth at least a 4th at the time of the trade.Whitehurst- a 3rd + the option to swap 2nds (I think)Favre- ended up being a 3rd, a torn bicep away from being a 2nd (or even a 1st)Cassel- High 2ndEvery QB- with the exception of McNabb's 2nd trade- has gone for something significant. Backup QBs who have never taken a snap go for a 3rd+. Backup QBs with a few good games go for a 2nd +. The bidding clearly starts with a 1st rounder for Palmer in the off season.
The question is which teams would give up MORE in the middle of the season, or next year, than they would have given up in the preseason this past season? Many teams would have been happy to sniff but there is no gain and probably some loss if Brown tries to shop Palmer to those teams now instead of the off season.
No way that Jac or Ten ponies up a pair of high picks for Palmer with 4 years left on his contract after spending a 1st rounder on Gabbert/Locker this past year. You aren't talking season ending injury for that to happen, your talking career threatening injury (and for Ten that would be after Hass went down first).SEA a maybe, but they pulled out of the Kolb and Orton sweeps early. They wouldn't offer a 3rd for Orton and went with T Jax/Whitehurst combo instead. MIA is 100% out of it and KC is hurting and has a decent enough QB the next 2-3 years anyway. Football players are deteriorating assets in most cases- certainly ones that are 30+ and coming off their two worst seasons are. Every year that Brown held onto Palmer would reduce his market value. It was probably 20-1 or worse that some team would offer up 2 high picks for him 48 hours before the deadline.
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
I think anyone who tries to pull what Palmer did will think twice which is the main thing. Nobody would've gone to the mat the way Mikey Boy did - you know this.Besides Palmer said (oh I'm sorry said through his agent for purposes of plausible deniability) he was retired and never came close to filing the paper work. He also said it wasn't about the money but got some guarantees on his $ for redoing his deal with the Raiders (and he's still set to make a ridiculous $15m in the last year of the deal).-QG
Stinkin Ref
IBL Representative
good stuff bacon.....I mostly included KC cause as a KC fan....even after losing our TE, Safety, and RB....if Kc wins and SD loses this week KC would only be a game out of first in the West believe it or not....SD at NYJ and KC against a new QB in OAK...a guy can dream can't he..?... 
had Cassel gone down like Campbell.....Palmer would have been better than what they have and if they thought they could still actually win the division.....and personally I don't think Cassel is the answer....but the stretch KC has coming up starting week 11 makes it a non issue...I believe TEN has a shot to win their division even though everybody wants to hand it over to HOU.....and if Hass had gone down, not sure they would have thought Locker could lead them into the playoffs...
Bruce Leroy
Footballguy
Mike Brown is lucky Palmer didn't show up as soon as final cuts were announced. He easily could have and collected his contract/paycheck.
I know I would have if I was Palmer
I know I would have if I was Palmer
Stinkin Ref
IBL Representative
so then he is "on" a team with a bunch of guys who he basically walked out on, turned his back on, said you ain't good enough for me, I'm just here for the money, ...how you guys doin'...?....that sounds like fun....
Rockchild
Footballguy
I don't think any of this will have too much bearing on what the next guy will or won't do. They make decisions on what they and their agent think is in their best interest and what they think they can get away with or what they think will work. Too many ego's on both sides.
Joe Summer
Footballguy
Or they would slap him on the back and say "I'm glad someone finally had the guts to stand up to our cheap-### owner."
Joe Summer
Footballguy
For all we know, Palmer and Brown could have been partners in this scheme from day one.Palmer: "I promise not to talk trash about you if you agree to trade me within one year."
Brown: "I promise to trade you as long as you don't report for duty and demand your full salary."
Fullback Fro
yesno
Mike Brown is a terrible owner for his fans but the very best owner for himself and his family. He cares more for his bottom line than he does the success of his football team. He cares nothing about wins and losses nor for his fans. He spends as little as possible on the football side of his business, just enough to get by, but makes more money than almost any other franchise.
ESPN did a ranking of the most fan friendly franchises with a bunch of criteria and the Bengals finshed dead last. DEAD EFFING LAST
http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/teamrankings
Last Year's Rank: 90
Title Track: 122
Ownership: 120
Coaching: 114
Players: 122
Fan Relations: 122
Affordability: 114
Stadium Experience: 110
Bang for the Buck: 95
Here's one way to define hopelessness: Over the past decade, the Bengals have gone 68-91-1, making just two playoff appearances (both first-round losses). Here's another: Cincinnati fans ranked their team dead last in all of major pro sports in expectations for a championship; fan-friendliness; player likability, effort and accessibility; and promotions and giveaways. The Bengals can't sell out Paul Brown Stadium anymore (they were blacked out of local TV over the last four games of their dismal 2010 season), but the Jungle is incredibly lucrative for owner Mike Brown and family, anyway. Thanks largely to a sweet arena deal that allows them to keep all concession and signage revenues and all parking profits, the Bengals made $49.4 million last year, according to Forbes. Who dey? Fans are asking. Who cares?
ESPN did a ranking of the most fan friendly franchises with a bunch of criteria and the Bengals finshed dead last. DEAD EFFING LAST
http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/teamrankings
Last Year's Rank: 90
Title Track: 122
Ownership: 120
Coaching: 114
Players: 122
Fan Relations: 122
Affordability: 114
Stadium Experience: 110
Bang for the Buck: 95
Here's one way to define hopelessness: Over the past decade, the Bengals have gone 68-91-1, making just two playoff appearances (both first-round losses). Here's another: Cincinnati fans ranked their team dead last in all of major pro sports in expectations for a championship; fan-friendliness; player likability, effort and accessibility; and promotions and giveaways. The Bengals can't sell out Paul Brown Stadium anymore (they were blacked out of local TV over the last four games of their dismal 2010 season), but the Jungle is incredibly lucrative for owner Mike Brown and family, anyway. Thanks largely to a sweet arena deal that allows them to keep all concession and signage revenues and all parking profits, the Bengals made $49.4 million last year, according to Forbes. Who dey? Fans are asking. Who cares?
