Mike Shanahan (1 Viewer)

[B Maverick]

Ok, so for years we have read about the unpredictability of Shanahan and his RBs and the hate associated with it. So I did some checking. I went from 1997 to 2008 with Den and his 2010 WA campaign. Why 1997? TD's first of two great years and then the RB carousel begins...

Now I could be misreading or getting bad info, so I will present what i see. Sorry for the formatting if it looks bad. What I am looking at is the top 1-4 RBs and what % of the overall carries they got, including QBs, WRs and in some cases a carry by a punter or kicker. But you can review, discuss and come to your own conclusion:

1997

TD 369 of 520 carries 71%

9 different rushers

1998

TD 392 of 525 carries 75%

9 different rushers

1999

Gary 276 of 465 carries 59%

TD injured

11 different rushers

2000

Anderson 297 of 516 carries 58%

Gary injured, TD trying to come back

11 different rushers

2001

Anderson 175 of 581 carries 36%

TD 167 of 581 35%

Gary 57 of 581 12%

Three former 1000 yard backs carrying load, TD 2 years after inj, Gary 1 year

13 different rushers

2002

Portis 273 of 457 carried 60%

Anderson 84 of 457 18%

CP Took over as starter week 3 or 4, Anderson injured?

11 different rushers

2003

Portis 290 of 543 carries 53%

Q Griffin 94 of 543 carries 17%

14 different rushers

2004

Droughns 275 of 534 carries 51%

Portis traded for Champ, griffin and bell preseason darlings?, Anderson DNP

9 different rushers

2005

Anderson 239 of 542 carries 44%

T Bell 173 of 542 carries 32%

Anderson 1014 yards, Bell 921

10 different rushers

2006

T Bell 233 of 488 carries 48%

M Bell 157 of 488 32%

13 different rushers

2007

Henry 167 of 429 carries 39%

S Young 140 of 429 carries 33%

Henry leads NFL after 4 games, injures knee

10 different rushers

2008

Pittman 76 of 387 20%

Hillis 68 of 387 18%

Young 61 of 387 16%

T Bell 44 of 387 11%

11 different rushers

2010 WA

Torain 164 of 351 carries 47%

Williams 65 of 351 carries 19%

Portis 54 of 351 carries 15%

Injuries to Portis and Torain

12 different rushers

RB Changes:

98-99, TD to Gary TD injures Knee

99-00, Gary to Anderson- Gary injures Knee

00-01, Anderson, Gary, TD TD leg injury, Garys return, 2x 1000 yard backs and a 2000 yard back trying to play, Andeson injured

01-02 RBBC to Portis CP drafted in 2nd rd, TD retires before season, Portis = Stud

02-03 Remains Portis

03-04 Portis to Droughns Portis traded to WA for Bailey, Droughns beats out T Bell, Griffin, Anderson did not play

04-05 Droughns to Anderson Ruben traded to Cle, Anderson returns from Injury 1000 yards

05-06 Anderson to TBell/MBell Anderson waived for salary cap purposes, TBell 1000 yards

06-07 TBell to T Henry/S Young Tbell traded to Det for Bly. Henry signed, leads league after 4 games, injures Knee, has drug suspension, Young takes over.

07-08 Henry/SYoung to RBBC Henry cut due to drug issues, injuries, Pittman has injury issues, Hillis shows signs of future cle stud

2010 with WA Portis is starter, injured and Torain takes over. Injury opens door for Williams and James to get carries, Torain still gets 47% of carries

13 seasons

7 seasons 1 RB carried 50% or more of the rushes in a season

2 more season with a RB carrying 47% -50% of the rushes in a season

1 season with top back getting 44%/1000yrds and 2nd back with 32%/900yrds

3 season: 2001, 2007 and 2008 poster years of the Skeletor hate, even splits between 2 or more backs, some injuries, some bad rbs.

6 changes due to lead RB injured

3 changes due to trade

1 change for player released

Anyway, from what I see, Shanny may change RBs but more often then not his top back will be the man for the year unless injured. Year to year can change on a whim so dynasty owners may need to beware. But I ask is the Shanny hate really as bad as its presented in the shark pool?

What do you think?

edited to add, this is my first big analysis attempt, please be kind!

 

[wikkidpissah]

interesting stuff. the difficult thing about Shanny is that, after he traded Portis for Bailey, he came to believe that it no longer mattered who was in the backfield, that his genius would pull them thru. this happened at about the same time that not only DLs but some LBs were heavier than his OL (before Foster, he didnt have a 300+lb OL) and his zone blocking schemes became less effective. those factors plus his "genius" refusing to revise itself combined to make his offense inconsistent enough that it could no longer compensate for a lack of defensive toughness & the Broncos, their fans & FFB mgrs no longer became able to count on his offense from wk2wk. he does seem to get enough out of some bad RBs in Wash not to have change his philosophy that much, but it no longer seems cogent to observers & remnains hard to evaluate.

 

[jojoh07]

all i know is he is a DAMN good coach

 

[eaglesfan7]

Shanny is a different coach these days. He'll play the hot hand week to week and it looks as if Hightower had his chance and blew it. Torain doesn't stay healthy for a full season so look for Helu to breakout before seasons end.

 

[qimqam]

I've never had a problem reading Shanny ... He typically comes right out a tells you what he is thinking but some people just chose to ignore it.

For Example: He makes no effort to hide the fact that he luvs Torain ... Then comes out and says he nearly benched Hightower in the game for Torain (indicating that Torain and not Helu was next in line) .

The reaction should have been to immediately grab Torain (which I did) ... But Hightower and Helu owners are shocked that Shanny made this move supposedly out of the blue.

 

[Hang 10]

I think that he's deserved some hate in the past but this year it just seems like sour grapes from Hightower owners. There was no reason to think that THT had a vice-grip on the starting job this season. Sure, he looked great in the pre-season but he's done nothing but underwhelm since the games has started counting. Why would any headcoach keep giving him the bulk of the carries when he's been so ineffective?

 

[The Doctor]

there is no hate that i know of

im a redskins homer and hes the best thing thats happend to this team in a long while

last year he made some boneheads moves (mcnabb) for one

 

[B Maverick]

I think that he's deserved some hate in the past but this year it just seems like sour grapes from Hightower owners. There was no reason to think that THT had a vice-grip on the starting job this season. Sure, he looked great in the pre-season but he's done nothing but underwhelm since the games has started counting. Why would any headcoach keep giving him the bulk of the carries when he's been so ineffective?

But thats my point, every year we get the dont touch a shanny RB and he will change on a dime. Only 3 of 13 years has that been the truth. And thats usually due to injury or the hype building on the wrong back. More often the lead back gets the majrotiy of carries and is worth owning. Maybe in preseason its difficult since you have to have ALL the backs to get the right guy?

there is no hate that i know ofim a redskins homer and hes the best thing thats happend to this team in a long whilelast year he made some boneheads moves (mcnabb) for one

I am looking more from a FF perspective not a real coaching view.

 

[Raider Nation]

As an NFL head coach, today was the first time one of Shanahan's teams have ever been shut out.

 

[Judge Smails]

Boy they were PATHETIC today. Personally I think he's one of the more overrated coaches in history..

 

[DoubleG]

Boy they were PATHETIC today. Personally I think he's one of the more overrated coaches in history..

 

[FavreCo]

As an NFL head coach, today was the first time one of Shanahan's teams have ever been shut out.

GTFO. Wow, new low. They need a QB.

 

[Ladsud]

Elway and TD VS Beck and Torain....heh. Washington needs an overall, is there any talent on the O other than Davis?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

all i know is he is a DAMN good coach

What's your evidence for this? He rode John Elway and TD to two super bowls. Otherwise he's done nothing.

 

[Raider Nation]

As an NFL head coach, today was the first time one of Shanahan's teams have ever been shut out.

GTFO. Wow, new low. They need a QB.

To Shanny's credit, Washington had a 4th & 17 at Buffalo's 24 yard line with 0:47 left, down 23-0. Yeah, it would have been a total weasel move to kick the 41-yard FG, but he certainly could have and it wouldn't have made any difference to the bottom line.

 

[thayman]

Elway and TD VS Beck and Torain....heh. Washington needs an overall, is there any talent on the O other than Davis?

The Offense really lacks a playmaker. There are some solid parts there as WR2 and WR3s. I'm a big fan of Cooley's too. Lots of Washington fans have been wanting to see two TE sets with Cooley and Davis for awhile now.

 

[Ghost Rider]

all i know is he is a DAMN good coach

What's your evidence for this? He rode John Elway and TD to two super bowls. Otherwise he's done nothing.

How many Super Bowls did Elway win before Shanny became the Broncos head coach? Getting to the AFC title game in 2005 with Jake Plummer as his starting QB is nothing? Averaging 9 wins a season in 11 full seasons as a head coach since Elway retired is nothing? I'll hang up and listen.

 

[Bills_Fan11]

all i know is he is a DAMN good coach

What's your evidence for this? He rode John Elway and TD to two super bowls. Otherwise he's done nothing.

How many Super Bowls did Elway win before Shanny became the Broncos head coach? Getting to the AFC title game in 2005 with Jake Plummer as his starting QB is nothing? Averaging 9 wins a season in 11 full seasons as a head coach since Elway retired is nothing? I'll hang up and listen.

Well Elway did have more success w/out Shanny than vice versa. But it's not exactly a newsflash that the QB is more important than the coach - that shouldn't be a knock on Shannahan. Every coach with multiple rings not named Joe Gibbs has 'ridden' the same QB to glory. I agree, that Plummer team was complete smoke&mirrors and he should get credit for that. But I do think it's fair to knock his legacy down a peg if he doesn't get that thing turned around by next year and make them a playoff team as say Parcells was able to do everywhere he went.

 

[DoubleG]

all i know is he is a DAMN good coach

What's your evidence for this? He rode John Elway and TD to two super bowls. Otherwise he's done nothing.

How many Super Bowls did Elway win before Shanny became the Broncos head coach? Getting to the AFC title game in 2005 with Jake Plummer as his starting QB is nothing? Averaging 9 wins a season in 11 full seasons as a head coach since Elway retired is nothing? I'll hang up and listen.

Well Elway did have more success w/out Shanny than vice versa. But it's not exactly a newsflash that the QB is more important than the coach - that shouldn't be a knock on Shannahan. Every coach with multiple rings not named Joe Gibbs has 'ridden' the same QB to glory. I agree, that Plummer team was complete smoke&mirrors and he should get credit for that. But I do think it's fair to knock his legacy down a peg if he doesn't get that thing turned around by next year and make them a playoff team as say Parcells was able to do everywhere he went.

Shanny is starting to look like the Phil Jackson of the NFL.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

all i know is he is a DAMN good coach

What's your evidence for this? He rode John Elway and TD to two super bowls. Otherwise he's done nothing.

How many Super Bowls did Elway win before Shanny became the Broncos head coach? Getting to the AFC title game in 2005 with Jake Plummer as his starting QB is nothing? Averaging 9 wins a season in 11 full seasons as a head coach since Elway retired is nothing? I'll hang up and listen.

I was going to say that Shanahan enjoyed success with a particular group of players, and as those players left, his team in Denver gradually deteriorated. And of course he's shown nothing in Washington so far. Guys like Bill Parcells, Marty Schottenheimer, and even Tom Coughlin have been able to demonstrate success with multiple franchises and multiple rosters. Shanahan hasn't. But all that is moot since there's no way I'll ever be able to answer your delicious "I'll hang up and listen" bon mot, so I'll just give up.

 

[The Doctor]

need to get rid of kyle . he cant call a good play to save his life

 

[DaveGrumbles]

all i know is he is a DAMN good coach

What's your evidence for this? He rode John Elway and TD to two super bowls. Otherwise he's done nothing.

How many Super Bowls did Elway win before Shanny became the Broncos head coach? Getting to the AFC title game in 2005 with Jake Plummer as his starting QB is nothing? Averaging 9 wins a season in 11 full seasons as a head coach since Elway retired is nothing? I'll hang up and listen.

Almost sounds like Jack Del Rio's career up until this season...probably had about the same production in the running game too.

 

[fatness]

He's not very good at hiring offensive coordinators, defensive coordinators, or quarterbacks lately.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

This looked like it would be a good team this year. But you don't go into a season with Grossman/Beck as your starting QB committee. They need to bring back Grossman to at least make the games competitive. Shanahan is outthinking himself thinking there's any talent in Beck, who is hot garbage. The 2011 Redskin season is a shame. They should find a new HC.

 

[GregR]

...2000 Anderson 297 of 516 carries 58%Gary injured, TD trying to come back11 different rushers

Maverick I applaud the thread... figuring out whether commonly held beliefs are true or not is a great way to get a leg up on the competition.Some of why Shanahan has the reputation that he does you're not going to get at from just seeing the stats. Just knowing that Mike Anderson got the bulk of the carries in 2000 doesn't really tell you what a fantasy owner with Denver RBs went through that year. I'll try to help paint a picture of the reality, though my memory of course isn't perfect.TD hurts his ankle first game. Gary is hurt too and on IR.So now it's week 2. I haven't found year 2000 injury reports to refresh my memory on what status TD was given. But Shanahan had a reputation for not being honest on the injury report. So you enter week 2 possibly unsure who is going to even start, TD or Mike Anderson, plus you haven't seen Mike Anderson in a regular season game yet. So you probably sit both of them if you have any quality backups.Now it's week 3 and Anderson just had a monster game on your bench. You're still not sure if TD is going to be back, but hopefully you start Anderson and he does well.Week 4 now you're really up in the air. Mike Anderson gets the official start, but TD is playing too. You're not sure what the carry distribution is going to be. You either gamble and play one or the other, or you bench both if you have a good backup RB. It turns out that TD got a bunch of touches but then hurts his ankle again, so Anderson again ends up with the most carries.Just to keep score so far, we're 4 weeks in, and the only week a fantasy owner felt really confident about who to start was week 1. Week 3 you maybe felt ok, but it's hard to say for sure without seeing the actual headlines from the day of what Shanny was saying about TD.Week 5. TD is back again, but which are you going to start for your team? You're not sure and you have to gamble. Probably you start TD. Either way doesn't matter... turns out they split carries and neither has a worthwhile fantasy day, making you less likely to play them next week.Week 6. TD is injured again. I dont' know what the injury reports said, but it's entirely possible we don't know about the injury until he's inactive, or that we think he might play. But let's say you start Mike Anderson, as I recall I did that week. Only to see KaRon Coleman split touches evenly with Mike Anderson. I remember this week vividly. KaRon Coleman? You've got to be kidding, right?Week 7. Now you're still stinging from the KaRon Coleman incident. Anderson had the big games early, but now he might be in a RBBC. So you bench him, and watch Anderson get 2/3 of the carries, 130 total yards and a TD, and Coleman doesn't get a touch behind Raymont Harris. Week 8. Hopefully you start him again, but then you get a bit worried when you see KaRon Coleman get 1/3 of the carries as well. Not enough that you wouldn't play Anderson, but enough that you could see Shanny going back to the even split.Week 9. I don't know what the injury report was coming into this week, but the end result is Terrell Davis is back and gets all the carries. It's entirely possible you could have started Mike Anderson thinking TD would be out. That's what it was like in the days of Shanahan and the old injury report.Hopefully you get the point by now. It's easy to say that Mike Anderson got most of the carries when TD didn't start and should have been played. It was a lot more difficult when you don't have the benefit of hindsight to know if TD was going to play. Some weeks you likely started TD when Anderson got the touches. Other weeks you started Anderson when TD got all the touches. And still other weeks you benched Anderson because who the %#*& is KaRon Coleman and why is Shanahan giving him equal carries, and is this going to happen next week?There was always just enough uncertainty that you never quite feel comfortable. It's easy to miss that if you just look at the final results in hindsight.

 

[GregR]

The current situation made me think of this thread and how I tried to dredge up from memory what it was like living through Mike Anderson's first big season and having gotten very few fantasy points out of him despite his having an amazing year. Looking back it's easy to say that Shanahan gives a lot of carries to one back each season. But what we've already seen in the preseason this year with Helu, Royster, Hightower and Morris is a perfect example of what we went through back in the Denver days when there wasn't a TD or a Portis as an obvious healthy option. You don't always know who it is going to be, and even after they start accumulating their touches, you are still left with doubts often for weeks if not for the whole season.

A few years from now we'll probably look back on 2012 and someone can say, "Well Shanahan gave 55% of his carries to __________ in 2012, I don't see what the problem was?"

But it's very different when you have to guess before the fact who __________ is going to be.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

Exactly, 51% to Droughns. Who was all over that and starting him with confidence every week? 4-27 the first week of the playoffs just to make you lose whatever confidence you had built up if not outright eliminate you.