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Military coup attempt in Turkey (1 Viewer)

Interesting because when Gary Johnson was on the Joe Rogan podcast a short time ago, he suggested that the best political system might be to have democratically-elected presidents for a 16-year cycle, then a benevolent dictator for 2 years in order to adjust and right any of the wrongs that they caused.  Kind of sounds like it here.
Benevolent dictators are great. Turkey would probably be much worse off today if it wasn't for Ataturk.

The problem is that benevolent dictatorship isn't really a political system that you can decide to set up. It's just dictatorship, a terrible political system, that happens to turn out OK.

 
All the get out the vote chickens have come home to roost.  Used to be that only people who cared enough to pay attention voted.

 
Friday night’s failed coup was Turkey’s last hope to stop the Islamization of its government and the degradation of its society.  Reflexively, Western leaders rushed to condemn a coup attempt they refused to understand. Their reward will be a toxic Islamist regime at the gates of Europe. Our leaders no longer do their basic homework.The media relies on experts-by-Wikipedia. Except for PC platitudes, our schools ignore the world beyond our shores. Deluged with unreliable information, citizens succumb to the new superstitions of the digital age. So a great country is destroyed by Islamist hardliners before our eyes—and our president praises its “democracy.”

And the leaders of the ill-fated coup? What did they stand for?  Mustafa Kemal Ataturk’s legacy and a secular constitution.  One of the great men of the last century, Ataturk (an innovative general by background) pulled Turkey from the wreckage of World War One, abolished the caliphate, suppressed fanatical religious orders, gave women legal rights and social protections, banned the veil, promoted secular education for all citizens of Turkey, strongly advocated Westernization and modernization…and promoted a democratic future.

The officers who led the collapsed coup stood for all those things. President Obama and Secretary of State Kerry opposed them.

Thanks Obama.

 
Friday night’s failed coup was Turkey’s last hope to stop the Islamization of its government and the degradation of its society.  Reflexively, Western leaders rushed to condemn a coup attempt they refused to understand. Their reward will be a toxic Islamist regime at the gates of Europe. Our leaders no longer do their basic homework.The media relies on experts-by-Wikipedia. Except for PC platitudes, our schools ignore the world beyond our shores. Deluged with unreliable information, citizens succumb to the new superstitions of the digital age. So a great country is destroyed by Islamist hardliners before our eyes—and our president praises its “democracy.”

And the leaders of the ill-fated coup? What did they stand for?  Mustafa Kemal Ataturk’s legacy and a secular constitution.  One of the great men of the last century, Ataturk (an innovative general by background) pulled Turkey from the wreckage of World War One, abolished the caliphate, suppressed fanatical religious orders, gave women legal rights and social protections, banned the veil, promoted secular education for all citizens of Turkey, strongly advocated Westernization and modernization…and promoted a democratic future.

The officers who led the collapsed coup stood for all those things. President Obama and Secretary of State Kerry opposed them.

Thanks Obama.
:excited:  

 
Friday night’s failed coup was Turkey’s last hope to stop the Islamization of its government and the degradation of its society.  Reflexively, Western leaders rushed to condemn a coup attempt they refused to understand. Their reward will be a toxic Islamist regime at the gates of Europe. Our leaders no longer do their basic homework.The media relies on experts-by-Wikipedia. Except for PC platitudes, our schools ignore the world beyond our shores. Deluged with unreliable information, citizens succumb to the new superstitions of the digital age. So a great country is destroyed by Islamist hardliners before our eyes—and our president praises its “democracy.”

And the leaders of the ill-fated coup? What did they stand for?  Mustafa Kemal Ataturk’s legacy and a secular constitution.  One of the great men of the last century, Ataturk (an innovative general by background) pulled Turkey from the wreckage of World War One, abolished the caliphate, suppressed fanatical religious orders, gave women legal rights and social protections, banned the veil, promoted secular education for all citizens of Turkey, strongly advocated Westernization and modernization…and promoted a democratic future.

The officers who led the collapsed coup stood for all those things. President Obama and Secretary of State Kerry opposed them.

Thanks Obama. 
I understand why you didn't want to link to that crap of an opinion piece.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016/07/16/turkeys-last-hope-dies.html

Obama and Kerry opposed those officers?  By saying support the democratically elected officials (when the thing was basically over)?  And claims in that article that Obama rushed to support...yeah, nice one you found there FavreCo.

 
I dunno. When I was active in politics, I noted a trend that Democrats had more straight ticket voters than Republicans. That doesn't exactly show a lot of intellectualism. 
And the democrats believe 0.8 degree temp change over the last 130 years is unprecedented. They also believe more gun control reduces crime even though the cities with the highest gun control have the highest crime. And they believe the Secretary of State could set up her own unprotected email server in her basement, forward to secret emails to it and not be a crime.

 
While I think your second point has merit, I think you are wrong about the bolded.

It is clear that a significant segment of the population is anti-intellectual. I can think of a half dozen reasons why and there is probably some overlap among those reasons, but I think it is a very real phenomenon. 

And I wouldn't say it is exclusive to GOP voters either, though it probably is a larger proportion of the GOP's base than of the Democrats'. 
I have never thought it was exclusive to the GOP, or even a larger proportion among the GOP. 

Personally I believe that anti-intellectualism is an aspect of populism. Both political parties appealed to populism this time out. Bernie Sanders "Wall Street is evil and responsible for every wrong" is every bit as simplistic and anti-thought as any of Donald Trump's rantings. And all the young people who loved Bernie: how many of them simply wanted free tuition? Yeah, there's a lot of thought put into that. 

 
I have never thought it was exclusive to the GOP, or even a larger proportion among the GOP. 

Personally I believe that anti-intellectualism is an aspect of populism. Both political parties appealed to populism this time out. Bernie Sanders "Wall Street is evil and responsible for every wrong" is every bit as simplistic and anti-thought as any of Donald Trump's rantings. And all the young people who loved Bernie: how many of them simply wanted free tuition? Yeah, there's a lot of thought put into that. 
This thread is way off course.

 
"This just in"

(I mean this was in like 9 hours ago from the PM and even earlier than that according to some of the reports and as pointed out the extradition request was made yesterday whatevs..)

Linky

-QG

 
And the democrats believe 0.8 degree temp change over the last 130 years is unprecedented. They also believe more gun control reduces crime even though the cities with the highest gun control have the highest crime. And they believe the Secretary of State could set up her own unprotected email server in her basement, forward to secret emails to it and not be a crime.
The original question was about which party had the higher percentage of anti-intellectuals. I defined that as people who don't think for themselves, but Foghorn may have a different definition. Straight ticket voting, IMO shows people who don't think for themselves. Both Parties have a significant number of lemmings on a number of issues, but that Democrats more often (as a group, not individually) vote straight ticket (at least where I have experience with the numbers) suggests there are more lemmings that are Democrat than are Republican.

 
The original question was about which party had the higher percentage of anti-intellectuals. I defined that as people who don't think for themselves, but Foghorn may have a different definition. Straight ticket voting, IMO shows people who don't think for themselves. Both Parties have a significant number of lemmings on a number of issues, but that Democrats more often (as a group, not individually) vote straight ticket (at least where I have experience with the numbers) suggests there are more lemmings that are Democrat than are Republican.
I view that as smart, in a sinister sort of way

 
Benevolent dictators are great. Turkey would probably be much worse off today if it wasn't for Ataturk.

The problem is that benevolent dictatorship isn't really a political system that you can decide to set up. It's just dictatorship, a terrible political system, that happens to turn out OK.
certainly not a realistic system to try to set up, and I don't think Johnson was suggesting it could be implemented, just seemed interesting that something akin to that is sort of in place (maybe, from the way it was described).

 
The original question was about which party had the higher percentage of anti-intellectuals. I defined that as people who don't think for themselves, but Foghorn may have a different definition. Straight ticket voting, IMO shows people who don't think for themselves. Both Parties have a significant number of lemmings on a number of issues, but that Democrats more often (as a group, not individually) vote straight ticket (at least where I have experience with the numbers) suggests there are more lemmings that are Democrat than are Republican.
I think people who don't think for themselves are actually a separate category than those who are actively anti-intellectual. Though they certainly overlap.

And I regret that the comment about proportions has caused this thread to veer off course. 

 
I think people who don't think for themselves are actually a separate category than those who are actively anti-intellectual. Though they certainly overlap.

And I regret that the comment about proportions has caused this thread to veer off course. 
It's all good, buddy. Not much new coming out of Turkey right now.

Did anyone notice that the coup started on Friday night? Weekly holy day ends at sunset on Friday. That suggests some religious aspect to the coup, maybe. Thoughts?

 
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Erdowan was trying to change the Constitution to become a dictator. He has arrested most of his critics in the press. He opposes US interests in Syria and Iraq in that he has done everything to weaken the same Kurds we are trying to strengthen. He has supported Islamism. He is opposed to the secular Turkey in the tradition of Kemal Ataturk. 

And yet, it appears that we must support him because the alternatives, especially a Turkish civil war, would be worse for us. 
Everyone knows Erdogan is an ISIS sympathizer, but this shows you world leaders are more scared of a potential political vacuum which gives ISIS an opportunity to plow down less vicious adversaries.

http://www.newsweek.com/impossible-beat-isis-erdogan-power-442767

 
This is what has changed.  Most of America did not used to thumb their noses at Blue Collar workers.  It used to be an honorable way to make a living.  Now its "they're still coal miners and truck drivers" as if that is a bad thing.
It wasn't meant as an insult at all. I'm not sure why you took it that way. The point is no matter how much algebra or chemistry you force someone to learn in school, people are who they are. Some people live in a blue collar working class world and see the world through that lens. It's not a matter of education as much as station in life, lifestyle/people/culture that one gravitate towards. Although you are correct in the sense that the perception of things like labor unions seems to have trended negatively. 

 
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The Russians are supporting the Kurds.

We are out.

Obama has been actively disengaging us from the Mideast. See Ben Rhodes' feature in NYT Magazine for an explanation.
Many countries attacked by ISIS are too poor to fight big wars in the Middle East.  They are already in huge debt trying to prop up their economies.

 
Yeah, we have. Coal miners and truck drivers being better educated is a pretty low bar. And what it means to be a blue collar worker in America has changed - it means a smaller piece of the pie, or, too often, unemployment. You have have noticed how hostile the Democrats are to the coal mining industry?
Last part is definitely true. I just meant the type of skills needed, the type of person the job attracts, the values those people hold, etc. Their economic slice has been reduced, but I don't think the people themselves have. Where has what it means to be a college graduate has changed significantly from the 60s/70s to now. Anyway, I'm checking out as this is way off topic. 

 
I didn't say it was. But if you are going to make a blanket statement that we should support all "legally elected" governments, you can expect to be confronted with a bunch of counter-examples. The world isn't that simple and thinking about it in simplistic terms isn't helpful.
Yes, Assad was legally elected even though he did not allow anyone else to run against him.

 
By the way, can anybody recall a busier news time than the last 2 weeks? Beginning with James Comey's press conference last Tuesday, it seems like every day has been a new huge story. We've had two police shootings, the Clinton email result, Dallas, Nice, Mike Pence, and now this. It's been amazing. 
This is not a good thing.

 
Well, it is actually more complicated than that.  Erdogan has spent a decade removing his military adversaries....and kicking them out of the military.  So yeah, the "major players" in the military today were hand picked by Erdogan for the past decade.  He did this deliberately, knowing that otherwise, he would be in danger of a coup.  
Yes, anyone who watched Game of Thrones season 1 knows whoever controls the army has the power.

 
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Perfect outcome for Erdogen.  He has a great excuse to further chip away at democracy, install supporters in key roles, and continue his systematic plan to create an Islam-driven Turkish nation
Looks like he prepared the checklist while he was having fun on vacation.

 

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