Minnesota Vikings Offseason (2007) (2 Viewers)

[Vikes Fan]

Am I the only one who sees Wiggins as a terrible fit for the offense they're running? He's not a blocker and can't get open when going vertical. If you can't do one or the other in the WCO, you're useless at TE. Don't let the door hit you.

That's actually my problem with the WCO - or at least Chilli's version of it. If a guy doesn't fit in the typical WCO version, he is shown the door. Do you think Bill Walsh would have told a TE that caught 140 balls over two seasons to go? No, he would have found a way to use his talents. It seems to me that this is the missing piece here.That being said, the article pasted in this thread about the Vikings WR interest also says that Wiggins asked to be released because he feels he can be better untilized in a different system.

 

[FunkyPlutos]

Visanthe Shiancoe

Who is this guy? And why would the Vikings be interested??

From today's Pioneer Press:

Shiancoe supposedly catches everything thrown to him, although the Giants rarely gave him chances to make plays. In four seasons, he caught 35 passes for 253 yards and three touchdowns, none in the past two seasons. The Vikings could be banking on revealing his potential, as they did with running back Chester Taylor a year ago.

Shiancoe also is drawing interest from the Seattle Seahawks, but he might not leave Minnesota without a deal. It is believed he is seeking a signing bonus of more than $5 million, a steep price given his credentials. His signing could affect whether the Vikings bring in Daniel Graham. Graham might fly from a visit with the Oakland Raiders to Minnesota on Sunday. His travel plans hinge on Shiancoe.

 

[BigJim®]

Visanthe Shiancoe

Who is this guy? And why would the Vikings be interested??

From today's Pioneer Press:

Shiancoe supposedly catches everything thrown to him, although the Giants rarely gave him chances to make plays. In four seasons, he caught 35 passes for 253 yards and three touchdowns, none in the past two seasons. The Vikings could be banking on revealing his potential, as they did with running back Chester Taylor a year ago.

Shiancoe also is drawing interest from the Seattle Seahawks, but he might not leave Minnesota without a deal. It is believed he is seeking a signing bonus of more than $5 million, a steep price given his credentials. His signing could affect whether the Vikings bring in Daniel Graham. Graham might fly from a visit with the Oakland Raiders to Minnesota on Sunday. His travel plans hinge on Shiancoe.

at paying a guy I've never heard of $5 mil SB to "reveal his potential." Hey Vikes, please try to reveal my potential next. I'll only charge $2 million.The scary thing is this guy was even brought in for a look-see. The Vikes need another nobody WRTE like I need another hole in the head. Still thinking small in Minnesota... how unsurprising.

 

[FunkyPlutos]

Visanthe Shiancoe

Who is this guy? And why would the Vikings be interested??

From today's Pioneer Press:

Shiancoe supposedly catches everything thrown to him, although the Giants rarely gave him chances to make plays. In four seasons, he caught 35 passes for 253 yards and three touchdowns, none in the past two seasons. The Vikings could be banking on revealing his potential, as they did with running back Chester Taylor a year ago.

Shiancoe also is drawing interest from the Seattle Seahawks, but he might not leave Minnesota without a deal. It is believed he is seeking a signing bonus of more than $5 million, a steep price given his credentials. His signing could affect whether the Vikings bring in Daniel Graham. Graham might fly from a visit with the Oakland Raiders to Minnesota on Sunday. His travel plans hinge on Shiancoe.

at paying a guy I've never heard of $5 mil SB to "reveal his potential." Hey Vikes, please try to reveal my potential next. I'll only charge $2 million.The scary thing is this guy was even brought in for a look-see. The Vikes need another nobody WR like I need another hole in the head. Still thinking small in Minnesota... how unsurprising.

He's a TE.

 

[jestertj]

Am I the only one who sees Wiggins as a terrible fit for the offense they're running? He's not a blocker and can't get open when going vertical. If you can't do one or the other in the WCO, you're useless at TE. Don't let the door hit you.

That's actually my problem with the WCO - or at least Chilli's version of it. If a guy doesn't fit in the typical WCO version, he is shown the door. Do you think Bill Walsh would have told a TE that caught 140 balls over two seasons to go? No, he would have found a way to use his talents. It seems to me that this is the missing piece here.

So you would prefer to half ### it and stick with mediocre players? Wiggins isn't anything special. He caught a good amount of balls for a couple of seasons. He's not a game changer, so what's this outcry to change the offense to fit Wiggins? I'd rather try to find a player better suited to the system.If you really hired this coach for the long term, you HAVE to let him get things in place to fit his plans.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

So you would prefer to half ### it and stick with mediocre players? Wiggins isn't anything special. He caught a good amount of balls for a couple of seasons. He's not a game changer, so what's this outcry to change the offense to fit Wiggins? I'd rather try to find a player better suited to the system.

The problem is that unless you're planning on drafting Greg Olsen (a distinct possiblity), there aren't any TE's that fit that description.

If you really hired this coach for the long term, you HAVE to let him get things in place to fit his plans.

All the more reason to keep Wiggins.

 

[FunkyPlutos]

Am I the only one who sees Wiggins as a terrible fit for the offense they're running? He's not a blocker and can't get open when going vertical. If you can't do one or the other in the WCO, you're useless at TE. Don't let the door hit you.

That's actually my problem with the WCO - or at least Chilli's version of it. If a guy doesn't fit in the typical WCO version, he is shown the door. Do you think Bill Walsh would have told a TE that caught 140 balls over two seasons to go? No, he would have found a way to use his talents. It seems to me that this is the missing piece here.

So you would prefer to half ### it and stick with mediocre players? Wiggins isn't anything special. He caught a good amount of balls for a couple of seasons. He's not a game changer, so what's this outcry to change the offense to fit Wiggins? I'd rather try to find a player better suited to the system.If you really hired this coach for the long term, you HAVE to let him get things in place to fit his plans.

This offense needs a TE that can do both block and catch. That is why they are so interested in Graham. Wiggins can't block and Kleinsasser can't catch (or at least gain separation).

 

[jestertj]

So you would prefer to half ### it and stick with mediocre players? Wiggins isn't anything special. He caught a good amount of balls for a couple of seasons. He's not a game changer, so what's this outcry to change the offense to fit Wiggins? I'd rather try to find a player better suited to the system.

The problem is that unless you're planning on drafting Greg Olsen (a distinct possiblity), there aren't any TE's that fit that description.

I don't see how it could get any worse than Wiggins.

If you really hired this coach for the long term, you HAVE to let him get things in place to fit his plans.

All the more reason to keep Wiggins.

This was a hanging curveball for you.

 

[BigJim®]

Visanthe Shiancoe

Who is this guy? And why would the Vikings be interested??

From today's Pioneer Press:

Shiancoe supposedly catches everything thrown to him, although the Giants rarely gave him chances to make plays. In four seasons, he caught 35 passes for 253 yards and three touchdowns, none in the past two seasons. The Vikings could be banking on revealing his potential, as they did with running back Chester Taylor a year ago.

Shiancoe also is drawing interest from the Seattle Seahawks, but he might not leave Minnesota without a deal. It is believed he is seeking a signing bonus of more than $5 million, a steep price given his credentials. His signing could affect whether the Vikings bring in Daniel Graham. Graham might fly from a visit with the Oakland Raiders to Minnesota on Sunday. His travel plans hinge on Shiancoe.

at paying a guy I've never heard of $5 mil SB to "reveal his potential." Hey Vikes, please try to reveal my potential next. I'll only charge $2 million.The scary thing is this guy was even brought in for a look-see. The Vikes need another nobody WRTE like I need another hole in the head. Still thinking small in Minnesota... how unsurprising.

He's a TE.

Even more ridiculous. Oh, and fixed.

 

[RustyFA]

Wiggins can catch and was making $1.75 mil a year. He was a good player despite what some of you think.

 

[FunkyPlutos]

Wiggins can catch and was making $1.75 mil a year. He was a good player despite what some of you think.

I don't question his ability to catch, but the guy can't block and that severely limits a WCO if your TE can't block! He was perfect for the old style of offense that the Vikings had when it was a stretch the field type and he could just release underneath and catch dump passes.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

If that thread speculating that McMichael is available for a 3rd, the Vikes should seriously consider that.

 

[Donnybrook]

If that thread speculating that McMichael is available for a 3rd, the Vikes should seriously consider that.

I don't believe the Vikes would consider him because of his character issues.

 

[Donnybrook]

Tank Williams got cut today!

Link

I just read that they are going to re-sign him tomorrow. Must be some kind of contract thing, but thought they just signed him to a one year contract a few weeks ago, for a low salary.

I hope so. While Landry would be a nice pick, I don't want them to be locked into a player before the draft. Plus I like Tank...even though he hasn't played a down for us yet.

Are the Vikings showing any interest in Ken Hamlin?

 

[Vikes Fan]

Am I the only one who sees Wiggins as a terrible fit for the offense they're running? He's not a blocker and can't get open when going vertical. If you can't do one or the other in the WCO, you're useless at TE. Don't let the door hit you.

That's actually my problem with the WCO - or at least Chilli's version of it. If a guy doesn't fit in the typical WCO version, he is shown the door. Do you think Bill Walsh would have told a TE that caught 140 balls over two seasons to go? No, he would have found a way to use his talents. It seems to me that this is the missing piece here.

So you would prefer to half ### it and stick with mediocre players? Wiggins isn't anything special. He caught a good amount of balls for a couple of seasons. He's not a game changer, so what's this outcry to change the offense to fit Wiggins? I'd rather try to find a player better suited to the system.If you really hired this coach for the long term, you HAVE to let him get things in place to fit his plans.

This offense needs a TE that can do both block and catch. That is why they are so interested in Graham. Wiggins can't block and Kleinsasser can't catch (or at least gain separation).

Now maybe I have a short memory, but didn't Graham have one good season catching the ball? Has he not been behind Watson in that category for the past couple of seasons? It seems to me that after his one breakout season (I don't remember the year) he would disappear for stretches of 3-4 games. I just don't see him as a huge upgrade.Trade down a few spots, get some extra picks and select Olson if you feel TE is that great of a need. I agree with Andy, the TEs available do not seem to fit the system either.

 

[Vikes Fan]

UUURRRGGGHHHH! :X

Drew Bennett signs with the Rams thread.

 

[Biabreakable]

UUURRRGGGHHHH!

Drew Bennett signs with the Rams thread.

Did Curtis leave Minnesota allready?

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Minnesota has agreed to terms with tight end Visanthe Shiancoe (Giants) and linebacker Vinny Ciurciu (Carolina).

Super Bowl, homeboy.

 

[Donnybrook]

Minnesota has agreed to terms with tight end Visanthe Shiancoe (Giants) and linebacker Vinny Ciurciu (Carolina). Super Bowl, homeboy.

5 years at 18 M - 7 M in bonuses. Urge to kill rising, rising, rising............

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Minnesota has agreed to terms with tight end Visanthe Shiancoe (Giants) and linebacker Vinny Ciurciu (Carolina). Super Bowl, homeboy.

5 years at 18 M - 7 M in bonuses. Urge to kill rising, rising, rising............

Who'd they pay that to? Shiancoe?

 

[mozzy84]

Minnesota has agreed to terms with tight end Visanthe Shiancoe (Giants) and linebacker Vinny Ciurciu (Carolina). Super Bowl, homeboy.

5 years at 18 M - 7 M in bonuses. Urge to kill rising, rising, rising............

once the specifics of the contract come out it probably won't look to bad. They have been pretty good at spending there cap. this guy does have alot of upside and will be alot better than wiggins imo. I'm glad they got him actually.the other guy is just a special teamer so maybe they won't have to use starters out there anymore.

 

[RustyFA]

What an improvement over Wiggins. Wow. I am thrilled.

 

[prymetyme25]

What is Minny gona do about wrs? k. curtis should sign with the lions. D. Bennett(rams) only realy 2 wr left right. Stallworth and horn huh.

 

[Vikes Fan]

UUURRRGGGHHHH! :(

Drew Bennett signs with the Rams thread.

Did Curtis leave Minnesota allready?

Yes. Wilf better get his plane ready to get him back.Nevermind. They just overspent on a backup TE.

I am about ready to change my footballguys screen name out of embarrassment.

 

[Zerp]

I've heard 2 rumors that MN wants David Carr. No link. I live in EP, MN and live near people with the organization. Thoughts?

 

[RustyFA]

In my opinion the WRs are not big upgrades, especially at thier prices. Giants fans seem tothink VS is an average blocker with decent hands. Regardless we overpaid. A general question for my fellow Viking fans: Does this organization care about their fans? The last half-decade has been hard for us fans. Red McCobs not spending the money he was allowed to, trading away our stars, poor drafting, and it just seems like the organization doesn't care about the fans. What do you guys think. My wife is a Broncos fan and it is a lot easier for her to cheer on a team that seems to be trying to win. It seems the Vikings are ok with padding the pockets.

 

[datonn]

A general question for my fellow Viking fans: Does this organization care about their fans?

A bigger, more accurate question might be this: Does ANY professional sports organization truly care about their fans?" Not trying to hijack the thread. I ask that question seriously. The Packers might be an exception in seeing how they operate, but really, how many pro sports franchises out there do people think REALLY care about anything more than their fans' wallets and ego/vanity? People want to win from a competitive standpoint. However, I would venture a guess that most pro sports organizations are all-about the Benjamins....aka ONLY whatever they need to do to keep butts in the seats, advertisers writing checks and team gear flying off the shelves.Is that too cynical? To me though, pro sports is a BUSINESS, just like any other for-profit business out there.

 

[FunkyPlutos]

In my opinion the WRs are not big upgrades, especially at thier prices. Giants fans seem tothink VS is an average blocker with decent hands. Regardless we overpaid. A general question for my fellow Viking fans: Does this organization care about their fans? The last half-decade has been hard for us fans. Red McCobs not spending the money he was allowed to, trading away our stars, poor drafting, and it just seems like the organization doesn't care about the fans. What do you guys think. My wife is a Broncos fan and it is a lot easier for her to cheer on a team that seems to be trying to win. It seems the Vikings are ok with padding the pockets.

My argument FOR the organization is that what was done in the past has NOT worked so they must try something else. Look at the past few NFL champions (Colts, Steelers, Pats) and they all built from the draft without a ton of FA activity. Like someone said, maybe the Vikings needed to reach the minimum salary level (yes, the amount that Shiancoe got is a head scratcher - although he did have visits with five teams set up, so we don't know what NFL scouting types actually think of his potential), so I wouldn't question what they do since the Vikings don't have a storied Super Bowl past. They aren't a super power yet, but I believe in Childress and like what he is doing by not going after questionable character types (McMichael) and sticking to his plan.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Maybe Zygi's mad that the stadium situation hasn't gone as he'd liked.

Perhaps he's sabotaging the team to make it easier to move.

 

[FunkyPlutos]

But also keep in mind that most of the fans were upset by both the Culpepper and Moss trades, which turned out to be great value for both. Moss will be lucky to fetch a second round pick this year and Culpepper is competing with Cleo Lemon for a starting job!

 

[Andy Dufresne]

But also keep in mind that most of the fans were upset by both the Culpepper and Moss trades, which turned out to be great value for both. Moss will be lucky to fetch a second round pick this year and Culpepper is competing with Cleo Lemon for a starting job!

Personally, I was glad to see them both go and thought they got as good a value as they were going to for both of them.

 

[Bull Dozier]

I'll go on record as to say I think Shiancoe will be a good signing. Sure, we overpaid for his value, but with the recent jumps in the salary cap, good deals are going to be hard to find. I think Wiggins should have been kept around, but I think VS's potential is as high as any FA on the market (which really isn't saying much).

 

[Avery]

I'll go on record as to say I think Shiancoe will be a good signing. Sure, we overpaid for his value, but with the recent jumps in the salary cap, good deals are going to be hard to find. I think Wiggins should have been kept around, but I think VS's potential is as high as any FA on the market (which really isn't saying much).

Honest question.How is it a good signing when you overpay?

Even if he turns out to be a good to great player for the Vikings, if the Vikings overpay (meaning pay more than his current worth or more than was required/necessary) isn't that a bad signing, regardless of his ultimate production?

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I'll go on record as to say I think Shiancoe will be a good signing. Sure, we overpaid for his value, but with the recent jumps in the salary cap, good deals are going to be hard to find. I think Wiggins should have been kept around, but I think VS's potential is as high as any FA on the market (which really isn't saying much).

Honest question.How is it a good signing when you overpay?

Even if he turns out to be a good to great player for the Vikings, if the Vikings overpay (meaning pay more than his current worth or more than was required/necessary) isn't that a bad signing, regardless of his ultimate production?

I think given the state of the franchise that the Vikings probably HAVE to overpay to attract free agents.

 

[FunkyPlutos]

I'll go on record as to say I think Shiancoe will be a good signing. Sure, we overpaid for his value, but with the recent jumps in the salary cap, good deals are going to be hard to find. I think Wiggins should have been kept around, but I think VS's potential is as high as any FA on the market (which really isn't saying much).

Honest question.How is it a good signing when you overpay?

Even if he turns out to be a good to great player for the Vikings, if the Vikings overpay (meaning pay more than his current worth or more than was required/necessary) isn't that a bad signing, regardless of his ultimate production?

I think he was headed to Seattle next. You know that they would have offered to match what the Vikings would give (based on last season's poison pill fiasco) and the guy would be crazy to pick the Vikings over the Seahawks given equal money. So I think they got there man and didn't have to give Graham money - they actually probably hurt other teams by giving him this money, since another team will have to really overpay for Graham now.

 

[jestertj]

I'm willing to wait and see how Shiancoe turns out. It's obviously a bigger contract than most of us want to see the Vikings give a guy like this, but how many guys in the league are overpaid? That's what free agency is all about these days. Look at the impact the Hutch's contract last year has had on linemen signing this year.

 

[TeamDingo]

I think given the state of the franchise that the Vikings probably HAVE to overpay to attract free agents.

Not arguing for the VS (is that the agreed on acceptable term) signing. It seems clear they reached/overpaid again. But when a team noisily cuts a decent guy/respected veteran during Christmas week when all they had to do was inactivate him and quietly let him walk in the off season. I have to imagine that treatment might make a free agent want an extra incentive to even think of coming up here and playing for Bozo the Coach.

 

[FunkyPlutos]

I think given the state of the franchise that the Vikings probably HAVE to overpay to attract free agents.

Not arguing for the VS (is that the agreed on acceptable term) signing. It seems clear they reached/overpaid again. But when a team noisily cuts a decent guy/respected veteran during Christmas week when all they had to do was inactivate him and quietly let him walk in the off season. I have to imagine that treatment might make a free agent want an extra incentive to even think of coming up here and playing for Bozo the Coach.

I think Robinson wanted to be cut so he could sign with a playoff team. He never got signed which tells me he wasn't that good anyway. Even though it didn't play out like it maybe should have, I think they cut him to help him catch on with someone else, which never happened.

 

[TeamDingo]

I think given the state of the franchise that the Vikings probably HAVE to overpay to attract free agents.

Not arguing for the VS (is that the agreed on acceptable term) signing. It seems clear they reached/overpaid again. But when a team noisily cuts a decent guy/respected veteran during Christmas week when all they had to do was inactivate him and quietly let him walk in the off season. I have to imagine that treatment might make a free agent want an extra incentive to even think of coming up here and playing for Bozo the Coach.

I think Robinson wanted to be cut so he could sign with a playoff team. He never got signed which tells me he wasn't that good anyway. Even though it didn't play out like it maybe should have, I think they cut him to help him catch on with someone else, which never happened.

So when they were still mathematically alive for the playoffs themselves, they released their best threat at WR, a position of some need , as a "favor" to him so that he could catch on with a better team?That is not how I remember it.

 

[FunkyPlutos]

I think given the state of the franchise that the Vikings probably HAVE to overpay to attract free agents.

Not arguing for the VS (is that the agreed on acceptable term) signing. It seems clear they reached/overpaid again. But when a team noisily cuts a decent guy/respected veteran during Christmas week when all they had to do was inactivate him and quietly let him walk in the off season. I have to imagine that treatment might make a free agent want an extra incentive to even think of coming up here and playing for Bozo the Coach.

I think Robinson wanted to be cut so he could sign with a playoff team. He never got signed which tells me he wasn't that good anyway. Even though it didn't play out like it maybe should have, I think they cut him to help him catch on with someone else, which never happened.

So when they were still mathematically alive for the playoffs themselves, they released their best threat at WR, a position of some need , as a "favor" to him so that he could catch on with a better team?That is not how I remember it.

I'm just saying that is why they didn't just deactivate him and leave him there.

 

[TeamDingo]

I think given the state of the franchise that the Vikings probably HAVE to overpay to attract free agents.

Not arguing for the VS (is that the agreed on acceptable term) signing. It seems clear they reached/overpaid again. But when a team noisily cuts a decent guy/respected veteran during Christmas week when all they had to do was inactivate him and quietly let him walk in the off season. I have to imagine that treatment might make a free agent want an extra incentive to even think of coming up here and playing for Bozo the Coach.

I think Robinson wanted to be cut so he could sign with a playoff team. He never got signed which tells me he wasn't that good anyway. Even though it didn't play out like it maybe should have, I think they cut him to help him catch on with someone else, which never happened.

So when they were still mathematically alive for the playoffs themselves, they released their best threat at WR, a position of some need , as a "favor" to him so that he could catch on with a better team?That is not how I remember it.

I'm just saying that is why they didn't just deactivate him and leave him there.

Not trying to start a fight. In my opinion the Vikings did not handle it well - MRob mouthed off and they released him to make a petty point.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

I think given the state of the franchise that the Vikings probably HAVE to overpay to attract free agents.

Not arguing for the VS (is that the agreed on acceptable term) signing. It seems clear they reached/overpaid again. But when a team noisily cuts a decent guy/respected veteran during Christmas week when all they had to do was inactivate him and quietly let him walk in the off season. I have to imagine that treatment might make a free agent want an extra incentive to even think of coming up here and playing for Bozo the Coach.

I think Robinson wanted to be cut so he could sign with a playoff team. He never got signed which tells me he wasn't that good anyway. Even though it didn't play out like it maybe should have, I think they cut him to help him catch on with someone else, which never happened.

So when they were still mathematically alive for the playoffs themselves, they released their best threat at WR, a position of some need , as a "favor" to him so that he could catch on with a better team?That is not how I remember it.

I'm just saying that is why they didn't just deactivate him and leave him there.

Not trying to start a fight. In my opinion the Vikings did not handle it well - MRob mouthed off and they released him to make a petty point.

How did M Robinson mouth off?

 

[RustyFA]

According to Robinson the move blind-sided him. He never saw it coming.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

When the Vikings said they'd be quiet in free agency, I guess they weren't kidding.

 

[FunkyPlutos]

When the Vikings said they'd be quiet in free agency, I guess they weren't kidding.

Other than Curtis, I really don't see anyone worth going after at this point. Some of the guys - safeties and WRs that are left - I think you just wait and see if they are leftover after everything is done, and sign them for a lesser amount.

 

[pigskin pimp]

When the Vikings said they'd be quiet in free agency, I guess they weren't kidding.

Other than Curtis, I really don't see anyone worth going after at this point. Some of the guys - safeties and WRs that are left - I think you just wait and see if they are leftover after everything is done, and sign them for a lesser amount.

After overspending at the TE position, combined with the lack of true playmakers on the market, I'm guessing the next move is the draft. Followed by the second wave of FA, where there may be better prospects available. Vets like a Horn who could provide a 1 or 2 year fix at value when the market price has dropped.

 

[Vikes Fan]

Forbes just named Kevin McHale of the Wolves the best GM in sports (even though he is the Vice President of Basketball Operations, and not the GM). Maybe the Viking brain trust has decided that the best course of action for them is to follow McHale's lead and go fishing instead of working.

And the silence you hear is...the Vikings offseason.

 

[Vikes Fan]

Bobby Wade? Whoopty freaking do!

http://www.startribune.com/510/story/1034607.html

 

[Andy Dufresne]

4-12 may be generous.

At least they have the early lead in the Darren McFadden/Brian Brohm sweepstakes.

 

[Vikes Fan]

4-12 may be generous.At least they have the early lead in the Darren McFadden/Brian Brohm sweepstakes.

The addition to your sig line is definately an improvement!!!