Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
If that's true, shame on them. Really. But this seems to happen to Spielman every year.
Still, there are some solid guys remaining.
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Minnesota Vikings Team Thread (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter Heatman
- Start date
Still, there are some solid guys remaining.
BigJim®
Footballguy
Wow, how often do you hear a GM expressing surprise about how the 2nd round of a draft went, after months of planning? I half expected cliched ‘we got our target’ whether true or not. That’s not good.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I do like O'Neil he may end up being a very good player. He wont play guard though.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
Vikings took some great athletes but some very raw football players when they took Daniel Hunter and Jerick Mckinnon. Both of those draft picks paid off. All I can do is hope that O'Neil develops on the same path.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Listening to Spielmans press conference he never said he was surprised by this, that is just Collers headline. 
Donnybrook
Footballguy
Zimmer thought the main reason the D faltered down the stretch last season was because he played the starters to much and they were exhausted. So the pick just makes sense since they can add him to the rotation and he has played a variety of positions.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
The Vikings have been pretty successful with their 4th round picks at DE. Griffen and Robison were 4th round picks who had to earn playing time gradually. I think a big part of that is the coaching.
Zimmer did say that the defensive line wasn't fresh at the end of the season and that he should have rotated them more. That is what Bower and Weatherly were on the team for, he just didn't use them because he wanted to play his best guys.
The Vikings were trying to win the number one seed after all to get home field advantage. I kind of understand why he did what he did, but in the long run its still better to rotate them more. It allows the young players to gain much needed experience, even if some mistakes happen in the process of that and it lets the starters stay fresh for the postseason.
Nice thing about Holmes is he can play some under tackle as well. I don't know about Jaleel Johnson as an under tackle, back up nose tackle but he didn't seem that quick to me as a college prospect or in the limited play he had. The Vikings could still use another under tackle to rotate with Richardson, and perhaps for the future if they do not sign RIchardson to a new contract.
Griffen played some under tackle early in his career.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
We don't need no stinking linemen!
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Biabreakable
Footballguy
A kicker now?
Uff Da.
Uff Da.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Spielman continuing his M.O. of not knowing what to do beyond round 2.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
No problem with the kicker pick. Definitely need one and he was rated as a 4-5th round pick. If he hits, it would be a small price to pay. I expect New England has no regrets on drafting Stephen Gostkowski in the 4th round.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
I hope he is great.
A kicker pick just signals to me that the Vikings didn't think there were any players left that were too good to pass up a kicker for. To me that is like a few tiers of players being gone before you consider it.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
I suspect that the intern posting the pick on the NFL draft tracker may not be a Vikings fan.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Last two picks weren't bad. Developmental guys.
Aaaand then a guy that has no chance of making an NFL roster.
Aaaand then a guy that has no chance of making an NFL roster.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
So the Vikings did finally draft a guard. Colby Gossett from Apalachan State small school like Fusco was.
Lance Zierlein grades him as 5.49
According to mockdraftable another athletic lineman who needs coaching. Reading Zierliens comments reminds me of Clemmings a bit as far as his weaknesses.
88th percentile in bench 74 in the three cone and 70 in the 40 yard dash. The metrics that matter for guard are weight, 40 time, bench and 3 cone he is above average in all of those.
Offensive tackle is those 4 drills but also broad jump. So O'Neil is 98% in two of the drills 77% in broad jump but 33% in bench press and 5% in weight
Lance Zierlein grades him as 5.49
According to mockdraftable another athletic lineman who needs coaching. Reading Zierliens comments reminds me of Clemmings a bit as far as his weaknesses.
88th percentile in bench 74 in the three cone and 70 in the 40 yard dash. The metrics that matter for guard are weight, 40 time, bench and 3 cone he is above average in all of those.
Offensive tackle is those 4 drills but also broad jump. So O'Neil is 98% in two of the drills 77% in broad jump but 33% in bench press and 5% in weight
sports_fan
Footballguy
The guy just lost his job and this idiot calls him up to ask about his thoughts on it? What was he hoping to accomplish?
Biabreakable
Footballguy
FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
I couldn't disagree more!Andy Dufresne said:
He has found a lot of good players in drafts beyond round 2. Part of it is his acquiring of more picks and having a better chance because he picks more players but there have been a lot of solid contributors that have been drafted mid to late in his tenure.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Since 2014 I can think of three - McKinnon, Diggs, and Hunter. There are definitely not "a lot".
I don't know how many guys even remain on the team from the last four drafts.
http://www.vikings.com/team/history/all-time-drafts.html
FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
So, we just ignore Griffen, Robison, Sullivan because they were a few years earlier?
And, there aren't a ton that become pro bowlers after the first few rounds, and for good reason...
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Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Biabreakable
Footballguy
How long has Spielman had complete control of the draft?
Doing some reading I see that many think this began in 2012. I thought it was longer than that. If we start in 2012 then Spielman would not be responsible for the Christian Ponder pick in 2011.
So if we are just starting in 2012 I wonder what is a reasonable expectation for a lower draft pick being a successful one?
I would say a low draft pick in round 4 or later. I still consider 3rd round picks to be pretty high, we are talking about top 100 players drafted with those picks.
2012
Rhett Ellison - I consider him a successful pick as he started many games and at times was perhaps the best blocker on the team.
Jarius Wright - kind of meh. He has contributed but I wouldn't call him a steal. Still not sure what sure what the threshold should be? FunkyPlutos says solid contributor which seems fair, not sure if Wright would qualify as that or not. Its borderline.
Blair Walsh - hmmm naw
Gerald Hodges - was close to winning the start but the picks of Kendricks and Barr made him expendable. He was traded to the 49ers for Nick Easton who started games last season and may again this season.
Jeff Locke - naw
TJ Clemmings - started way too many games and was terrible. Proving that just starting games shouldn't mean a solid contributor, unless you mean contributing to pressures and sacks.
Stefon Diggs - He has been pretty good. I think Norvs son gets credit for pounding the table on Diggs IIRC.
David Morgan - He has done a good job of replacing Rhett Ellison.
Theres a lot of bad picks for sure but I don't think any team has much success with these later picks.
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Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Yes, it has only been since 2012. He's been here a lot longer, but not in his current capacity.
It's getting something out of your 4-7th rounders that contributes to a teams depth. And the last couple years, including last year's spectacular flame out, have proven that they don't have depth. Great top end talent, sure.
Most guys aren't even lasting through their first contract, to say nothing about earning a second.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
I agree the 2016 draft was really bad. At the time i felt like they just punted the whole draft after they traded with Miami in the 3rd round. Treadwell and Alexander haven't panned out from that draft yet either.
Morgan and Kearse have been able to contribute, Morgan more than Kearse but that whole draft is pretty much looking like a waste right now.
Last years draft is still too soon to judge in my opinion. Cook and Elflien look like great picks. Johnson hasn't played enough to judge Isidora did show some good blocks (and bad) when he got a chance to play due to injuries.
I do agree with your overall point that Spielman has had a lot of 1st round picks and he has traded up into the first round for those as well. He should be able to make solid picks that high and I think he has done a good job with those.
I'm still not sure what you think the Vikings should be getting with late round picks? Its a crap shoot. No team is getting a lot of starters from this late in the draft.
A few years back when the Vikings were not winning as many games and they were drafting higher, the team was pretty depleted of talent from the win now Favre years. They went into a full rebuild mode after that and the percentage of draft picks that made the final roster was really high.
Now the team is a lot better than that, more talented depth on the roster and lower picks as well. Makes it harder for these late round picks to actually make a roster that has talented depth compared to one that didn't.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Hercules Mata’afa NFL draft scouting report
Undrafted free agent signed by the Vikings recently.
Jeff Badet, WR, Oklahoma
Mike Boone, RB, Cincinnati
Curtis Cothran, DL, Penn State
Garret Dooley, OLB, Wisconsin
Armanti Foreman, WR, Texas
Holton Hill, CB, Texas
Tyler Hoppes, TE, Nebraska
Tray Matthews, S, Auburn
Hercules Mata’afa, DT, Washington State
Matt Linehan, QB, Idaho
Trevon Mathis, S, Toledo
Tray Matthews, DB, Auburn
Kamryn Pettway, RB, Auburn
Korey Robertson, WR, Southern Miss
Roc Thomas, RB, Jacksonville State
Jake Wieneke, WR, SDSU
Jonathan Wynn, DE, Vanderbilt
Undrafted free agent signed by the Vikings recently.
Jeff Badet, WR, Oklahoma
Mike Boone, RB, Cincinnati
Curtis Cothran, DL, Penn State
Garret Dooley, OLB, Wisconsin
Armanti Foreman, WR, Texas
Holton Hill, CB, Texas
Tyler Hoppes, TE, Nebraska
Tray Matthews, S, Auburn
Hercules Mata’afa, DT, Washington State
Matt Linehan, QB, Idaho
Trevon Mathis, S, Toledo
Tray Matthews, DB, Auburn
Kamryn Pettway, RB, Auburn
Korey Robertson, WR, Southern Miss
Roc Thomas, RB, Jacksonville State
Jake Wieneke, WR, SDSU
Jonathan Wynn, DE, Vanderbilt
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Mata'afa, Hill, and Roc Thomas are interesting.
Hercules could be a decent depth IN and situational pass rusher.
If (big if) Hill can get his head screwed on straight he could contribute.
The RB chart has spots available and Thomas could play the McKinnon part - he was a former five-star prospect.
Hercules could be a decent depth IN and situational pass rusher.
If (big if) Hill can get his head screwed on straight he could contribute.
The RB chart has spots available and Thomas could play the McKinnon part - he was a former five-star prospect.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Thanks Andy these guys are just names to me right now.
I will try to check out Roc Thomas as he sounds interesting.
No idea if Hercules can make the team or not, I did think the write up on him that I liked was very good.
I will try to check out Roc Thomas as he sounds interesting.
No idea if Hercules can make the team or not, I did think the write up on him that I liked was very good.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
I was wrong. I didn't think they would spend the money on Waynes. Hughes going to compete for the nickel.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Hercules Mata’afa, One of the Nation’s Top DTs, Embracing the Switch to Linebacker
Having Hercules play LB instead of defensive line is pretty interesting as he may be a player who fits Zimmers defense well threatening the A gap from a stand up position.
Huge questions about his ability to cover RB and TE though.
Having Hercules play LB instead of defensive line is pretty interesting as he may be a player who fits Zimmers defense well threatening the A gap from a stand up position.
Huge questions about his ability to cover RB and TE though.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
I wanted to find fault with PFF rankings but I went back and looked at their 2017 Big Board and it is still looking very good. They did indeed rank Ryan Ramczyk (at 22) ahead of Garret Bolles (at 61). Would the Broncos be better off if they use their draft board?
This year they had Will Hernandez and Connor Williams at 17 and 18 respectively. I wonder if the Vikings just don't want to use top picks on lineman because of the disappointing career of Matt Kalil.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
It does seem to be a philosophical decision by the Vikings front office (I assume aligned with the coaches as well) to not draft linemen high. That could be related to Kalil being a bust, but it just seems like an overall philosophy on their part. Its very possible that even if Isiah Wynn who a lot of folks were mocking to the Vikings had been there instead of being drafted by the Patriots at pick 23, that they may have passed on him for Hughes anyways. We don't have any way to know that now, but if they did that would not have surprised me. Even though I wanted them to draft Wynn ahead of all other players if he was there. From what I read about him (including PFF grade on him) he seemed like a great fit for their scheme as well as being a very talented player.
The Vikings pick of O'Neil is criticized by PFF because he did not do very well in one on one drills at the senior bowl, but I like the pick and I hope he develops into a starting tackle for the Vikings in time.
PFF did like the Vikings pick of guard Colby Gossett in the 6th round. They thought he should have been drafted higher than that.
If both of those players end up panning out it will address the offensive line needs of the future, but I don't know if they will be able to contribute much this year. A 1st round pick at offensive line would have been a player expected to start this year and contribute. I do know I have heard Spielman talk about it taking offensive linemen a few years before they are strong enough and technically sound enough to start them, and I have seen other research showing that offensive linemen do not perform as well in their first 3 seasons in the league as they do later in their careers.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Projecting the Vikings 2018 53-Man Roster
Some interesting opinions here, some that I disagree with.
I am not sure why Mike Boone would be better than Roc Thomas? He says Boone has a similar running style as Kareem Hunt. Hmmm.
He doesn't have Kendall Wright making the team. I could see Wright having more snaps than any other WR besides Diggs and Thielen. Thats a pretty wide gap in opinion. Maybe Treadwell or Stacy Coley could change that but I think Wright at least makes the team.
A few other surprises here as well.
Some interesting opinions here, some that I disagree with.
I am not sure why Mike Boone would be better than Roc Thomas? He says Boone has a similar running style as Kareem Hunt. Hmmm.
He doesn't have Kendall Wright making the team. I could see Wright having more snaps than any other WR besides Diggs and Thielen. Thats a pretty wide gap in opinion. Maybe Treadwell or Stacy Coley could change that but I think Wright at least makes the team.
A few other surprises here as well.
BigJim®
Footballguy
Wright would need to have taken a talent nosedive not to make this roster. His proven NFL production should make him an upgrade to Jarius Wright. You'd have to think he'll get a ton of opportunity with Cousins in the short passing game. I can't see Wright being a logical bubble candidate.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Wright agreed to a very small contract with the Vikings as well, so no real financial incentive to cut him.
If he sucks? Sure he won't make it. It is very interesting to me however that he has Jeff Badet and Korey Robinson making the final 53 and not Wright.
I thought I knew a lot about football players, especially skill players, especially Vikings players but I have no idea who these two WR are.
Just seems very unlikely to me that these WR are going to do better in camp than Wright will.
nittanylion
Footballguy
Big fan of Cousins since the Shanahan's took him to spite the Snyder-mandated selection of Griffiin. I think this group of WR/TE's were tailor-made for what Kirk brings to the table, and if the chemistry develops, it's gonna be flat-out lights out for the Vikes. Very excited for you guys!
Donnybrook
Footballguy
Intrigued by Zylstra - I watched a couple of YouTube videos including his CFL highlights. He seems to be utterly determined and has a great work ethic. I wonder if those qualities will make up for not having elite speed.Biabreakable said:
He is definitely on my watch list.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
Could you link the videos you found?
I have read some good things about him but haven't seen him play.
