Minnesota Vikings Team Thread (1 Viewer)

[Biabreakable]

I was mostly putting the game with the Eagles behind me.

I did read an interesting article about how the pass protection of the Eagles was very effective and likely a big difference maker in the game.

So the depth and talent of the Vikings defensive line needs some consideration. Tom Johnson is a free agent. Will be 33 years old in 2018. Should the Vikings re-sign him? He has played pretty well. You have to wonder how much he has left in the tank at his age however. Zimmer seems to like older veterans like this, and I would feel good about having Johnson back, I just think they need to cut his snaps and keep him fresher throughout the season, by adding another under tackle to pair with him, and hopefully take over starting role when Johnson does decline/retires.

Griffen is getting older too and Hunter did not play as well this season although I do think he is a very good end.

Tashaun Bower showed a lot of promise as a pass rusher. Maybe he is ready to mix in next season. I think Weatherly is ok but they could do better for those limited snaps of a 4th DE.

Another question is what happens with Brian Robison, who has been filling a lot of snaps at DE and DT. He is a very experienced player, a team captain and I am not sure Zimmer trusts Barr to do what he does, or anyone else on the defense.

If Bower pans out as a play maker the Vikings defensive ends should be pretty solid, but I still see a role for Brian Robison.

I do worry about giving too many snaps to an older player who may have declined. So the one year deal type contracts.

He is under contract for the 2018 season and is actually going to make slightly less than he did in 2017 season, so his age worked into the contract? 

He has a 1.25 cap hit if the Vikings cut him with a savings of $3.5 million, which isn't bad for a DE who plays as much as he does.

 

[Hov34]

i am trying to figure out, as an Eagles game, why this is getting so much media attention. I think because sports news is very void right now, so sports media is grabbing whatever they can, but there wasn't a peep after the Falcons game. For the life of me, i don't understand the people that are upset because some dweeb 18 year old kid says "booo" to them, but maybe that is just me. You walk past the idiot and there are 20k people in that stadium that if you are an intelligent and not d-bag fan, will be perfectly fine. I have been going to Eagles games for 25+ years off and on, and from plenty of people i know who went to the game on Sunday, it was just average fan behavior. there was a feeling that the vile fans were a little more fired up because the Vikings fans felt the need to "take over the city" and parade on the Arts Museum and dress up Rocky in purple. So maybe some of the reaction is based on poking the bear, when it is known that Eagles fans are passionate and not shy to share their thoughts. 

my guess if the grand-standing doesn't occur by the 75 Vikings fans, the rest of the Vikings fans would still receive some negative attention, but it likely wouldn;t have been as prevalent. 

if we are talking Dallas fans, that is a whole other conversation, but from all i have heard from actual people there it was a normal game where i had buddies tailgate with Vikings fans and they also booed some at various times who were celebrating or engaging the crowds. Honestly, it is a shame it is getting so much attention, but i think it is being blown out of proportion.

I did also hear a theory that this is simply mid-west culture meeting Northeast culture, and would be the same culture shock if it was another midwest team taking on Giants or Jets.

ETA: i stopped being lazy and read the opinion of this attorney in Kentucky. To be honest, feels little more like a salesman. Nowhere describes what is thrown at him (believe me, if something is thrown at you like a full can of beer, you will say that was thrown), says he can't print the things said to him like we are 5 year-olds, and basically makes it a fluff piece for how much better southern hospitality and culture is. 

I have been south of the Mason Dixon line twice. Honestly have not felt so glad to be white ever. got a flat tire and had to pull over and house on the side of the road had a confederate flag painted on the entire side of the house. Went to a gas station closer to Virginia to use the bathroom i get out and dude behind the counter puts his hand back down from the counter and tells me " i almost shot you" because i came into use the bathroom.

I didn't write an op-ed about it, but if i did i could be ignorant and suggest everybody down south is similar to this limited experience i had. 

ETA2: and much apologies for coming in the Vikings thread with my experience or thoughts, off the soap box. You guys did have a great season considering the adversity you had to deal with at the QB position and losing Cook, so you guys are more on the upswing then downswing. 

Yeah, just good clean fun:

Vikings' Case Keenum says his family needed protection from Eagles fans

 

[BigJim®]

I was mostly putting the game with the Eagles behind me.

I did read an interesting article about how the pass protection of the Eagles was very effective and likely a big difference maker in the game.

So the depth and talent of the Vikings defensive line needs some consideration. Tom Johnson is a free agent. Will be 33 years old in 2018. Should the Vikings re-sign him? He has played pretty well. You have to wonder how much he has left in the tank at his age however. Zimmer seems to like older veterans like this, and I would feel good about having Johnson back, I just think they need to cut his snaps and keep him fresher throughout the season, by adding another under tackle to pair with him, and hopefully take over starting role when Johnson does decline/retires.

Griffen is getting older too and Hunter did not play as well this season although I do think he is a very good end.

Tashaun Bower showed a lot of promise as a pass rusher. Maybe he is ready to mix in next season. I think Weatherly is ok but they could do better for those limited snaps of a 4th DE.

Another question is what happens with Brian Robison, who has been filling a lot of snaps at DE and DT. He is a very experienced player, a team captain and I am not sure Zimmer trusts Barr to do what he does, or anyone else on the defense.

If Bower pans out as a play maker the Vikings defensive ends should be pretty solid, but I still see a role for Brian Robison.

I do worry about giving too many snaps to an older player who may have declined. So the one year deal type contracts.

He is under contract for the 2018 season and is actually going to make slightly less than he did in 2017 season, so his age worked into the contract? 

He has a 1.25 cap hit if the Vikings cut him with a savings of $3.5 million, which isn't bad for a DE who plays as much as he does.

Rather than talking about Eagles offensive line & Vikes defensive talent, should we instead be asking about how we schemed this game? I read on PT that the Vikings did not use the double A gap scheme at all in the past 6 quarters. Is that just sour grapes or did anyone else notice as well? If true, really scratching my head because it is what makes this defense so unpredictable. Take that off the menu, and we're just... well... a Leslie Frazier defense.

 

[modogg]

Yeah, just good clean fun:

Vikings' Case Keenum says his family needed protection from Eagles fans

show me a fanbase that has 0 dip####s or 18 year old jackasses, and i will show you an empty stadium. Look, we have a-holes, sure. but there are also plenty of examples of Eagles' fans policing their own and putting the idiots in their place. i feel for Case's family, but do we think this doesn't happen anywhere else?

anyway, i don't want to pollute your thread. just saying 2-3 videos is not a great representation of the 75-80K people who were there. i guess all i am trying to say is that maybe things are different in Philly, but take it from people who have lived here for their lives that the portrayal from the national media is easy clicks for them, but not completely accurate. Now if we are talking Cowboys or Giants, might be a different conversation 

 

[modogg]

Rather than talking about Eagles offensive line & Vikes defensive talent, should we instead be asking about how we schemed this game? I read on PT that the Vikings did not use the double A gap scheme at all in the past 6 quarters. Is that just sour grapes or did anyone else notice as well? If true, really scratching my head because it is what makes this defense so unpredictable. Take that off the menu, and we're just... well... a Leslie Frazier defense.

big thing i hear before the game was the Eagles rotate 8-9 guys on their DL, and Vikings played 5 throughout the entire season. I would think they wore down as the season went on, and the Eagles DL has been able to stay fresher in the post-season. i don't know how much that made a difference, but some analysts who can dissect a game well pointed this out as something that was going to be a factor

 

[Biabreakable]

Rather than talking about Eagles offensive line & Vikes defensive talent, should we instead be asking about how we schemed this game? I read on PT that the Vikings did not use the double A gap scheme at all in the past 6 quarters. Is that just sour grapes or did anyone else notice as well? If true, really scratching my head because it is what makes this defense so unpredictable. Take that off the menu, and we're just... well... a Leslie Frazier defense.

Perhaps this is something that Zimmer was talking about, as far as sticking with some of the same plays a bit too long because for the most part, it was working.

I think the Saints showed some things in the second half that was likely useful to the Eagles, and by Zimmers own comments, he maybe should have changed some things because of that. Coverages, pressure packages ect.

The way things ended in the Saints game, it was just kind of hard to top that. Without the energy of the crowd and some of the players worn down from the season not playing at their highest level. Terrance Newman basically said the defense didn't have energy in that game. They played flat. This does make me question the motivation of the players, to play so poorly in the biggest game of the year. So it goes.

I definitely think there were things in the game plan, that for the most part worked early on, which set up counters and other things based off it . That is at least partly the coaching. Of course the players have to execute as well. They didn't make plays and gave up too many 3rd down conversions, unlike all season.

The decision to play some of the older players as many snaps as they did is worth considering as far as fatigue, Tom Johnson could have played fewer snaps and likely Robison as well. Griffens play fell off at the end of the year due to a foot problem. Griffen only had 3 sacks in the last 7 games including the playoffs, where he did have one against the Saints. Griffen had 10 sacks in the first 8 games then only 3 in the last seven games.

In the Saints game Tom Johnson played 63 defensive snaps, 93%

 E Griffen DE 62 91%

 D Hunter DE 53 78%

 L Joseph NT 48 71%

B Robison DE 40 59%

Shamar Stephen and Jaleel Johnson combined for 5 snaps. Johnson had 19 defensive snaps against the Eagles.Tom Johnson with 75% 

Avantae Collins had 10 offensive snaps against the Saints but only one against the Eagles, on their first drive. The Vikings also did not play much of David Morgan 10 snaps to Rudolphs 64 snaps. Morgan played 28 against he Saints who do not have as good a defensive line as the Eagles, which to me means play Morgan more and help with protection.

 

[Hov34]

show me a fanbase that has 0 dip####s or 18 year old jackasses, and i will show you an empty stadium. Look, we have a-holes, sure. but there are also plenty of examples of Eagles' fans policing their own and putting the idiots in their place. i feel for Case's family, but do we think this doesn't happen anywhere else?

anyway, i don't want to pollute your thread. just saying 2-3 videos is not a great representation of the 75-80K people who were there. i guess all i am trying to say is that maybe things are different in Philly, but take it from people who have lived here for their lives that the portrayal from the national media is easy clicks for them, but not completely accurate. Now if we are talking Cowboys or Giants, might be a different conversation 

Fake News, got it.

 

[snogger]

Yeah, just good clean fun:

Vikings' Case Keenum says his family needed protection from Eagles fans

show me a fanbase that has 0 dip####s or 18 year old jackasses, and i will show you an empty stadium. Look, we have a-holes, sure. but there are also plenty of examples of Eagles' fans policing their own and putting the idiots in their place. i feel for Case's family, but do we think this doesn't happen anywhere else?

anyway, i don't want to pollute your thread. just saying 2-3 videos is not a great representation of the 75-80K people who were there. i guess all i am trying to say is that maybe things are different in Philly, but take it from people who have lived here for their lives that the portrayal from the national media is easy clicks for them, but not completely accurate. Now if we are talking Cowboys or Giants, might be a different conversation 

how many NFL Stadiums have their own jail? Just asking

 

[JuniorNB]

how many NFL Stadiums have their own jail? Just asking

That was at Veterans Stadium. There's no jail at the Linc

 

[BigJim®]

Perhaps this is something that Zimmer was talking about, as far as sticking with some of the same plays a bit too long because for the most part, it was working.

I think the Saints showed some things in the second half that was likely useful to the Eagles, and by Zimmers own comments, he maybe should have changed some things because of that. Coverages, pressure packages ect.

The way things ended in the Saints game, it was just kind of hard to top that. Without the energy of the crowd and some of the players worn down from the season not playing at their highest level. Terrance Newman basically said the defense didn't have energy in that game. They played flat. This does make me question the motivation of the players, to play so poorly in the biggest game of the year. So it goes.

I definitely think there were things in the game plan, that for the most part worked early on, which set up counters and other things based off it . That is at least partly the coaching. Of course the players have to execute as well. They didn't make plays and gave up too many 3rd down conversions, unlike all season.

The decision to play some of the older players as many snaps as they did is worth considering as far as fatigue, Tom Johnson could have played fewer snaps and likely Robison as well. Griffens play fell off at the end of the year due to a foot problem. Griffen only had 3 sacks in the last 7 games including the playoffs, where he did have one against the Saints. Griffen had 10 sacks in the first 8 games then only 3 in the last seven games.

In the Saints game Tom Johnson played 63 defensive snaps, 93%

 E Griffen DE 62 91%

 D Hunter DE 53 78%

 L Joseph NT 48 71%

B Robison DE 40 59%

Shamar Stephen and Jaleel Johnson combined for 5 snaps. Johnson had 19 defensive snaps against the Eagles.Tom Johnson with 75% 

Avantae Collins had 10 offensive snaps against the Saints but only one against the Eagles, on their first drive. The Vikings also did not play much of David Morgan 10 snaps to Rudolphs 64 snaps. Morgan played 28 against he Saints who do not have as good a defensive line as the Eagles, which to me means play Morgan more and help with protection.

All great info. What I was trying to get at though with the double A gap question was simply "Did we change what we do best?" Personally, I think any caliber of defense can be beaten if it is vanilla. We've seen that for a decade. The A gap is not necessarily heavy blitz, but adding the uncertainty of who is rushing, and forcing the OL to guess and assign coverage on every snap- and it has paid dividends for the Vikings, even when 4 guys are rushing. Guys become unblocked, and other guys triple teamed. It's something I've loved and think it can be an x-factor. Coach planning to not do this dynamic thing you do well, and couple it with playing off receivers (rather than press) could be why they were flat. They were predictable, easy to block 1-1, and easy to run routes against.

Of all the numbers above that you posted, the diminished use of A. Collins really sticks out. If there was a defense to use the added T to impose will on a great DL, this was it. I posted previously their rationale for doing it against the Bears DL, and the success rate it brought. Maybe unneeded vs the Saints, but 1 snap vs the Eagles front when the OL is a bit of a mess? Eesh.   

 

[CanadianNFLJunkie]

Won't go back and talk about the Eagles game....looking forward to 2018 season.  Supposedly we have about $57 million to spend but we have some players to make huge decisions with.  QB is the obvious one.  I see Keenum going to Giants with Shurmur.  I'd like to think we'll sign Teddy and for Bradford, I see him moving on as we won't offer him huge bucks that he is expecting.  LOTS of teams are going to change the QB situation with free agency and the draft so it should be interesting for sure for our Vikings.  Hate to say it but I see McKinnon leaving and going somewhere where he can start or be the 1B RB for another team, a team like Buffalo or perhaps Giants with Shurmur or Tampa??   I would hope we go after a stud Guard, either free agency or draft.  I'd like to see more help on D, with the DL and CBs

 

[snogger]

how many NFL Stadiums have their own jail? Just asking

That was at Veterans Stadium. There's no jail at the Linc

Might be time to rethink that

 

[JuniorNB]

Might be time to rethink that

They're adding one as we speak. 

 

[Biabreakable]

All great info. What I was trying to get at though with the double A gap question was simply "Did we change what we do best?" Personally, I think any caliber of defense can be beaten if it is vanilla. We've seen that for a decade. The A gap is not necessarily heavy blitz, but adding the uncertainty of who is rushing, and forcing the OL to guess and assign coverage on every snap- and it has paid dividends for the Vikings, even when 4 guys are rushing. Guys become unblocked, and other guys triple teamed. It's something I've loved and think it can be an x-factor. Coach planning to not do this dynamic thing you do well, and couple it with playing off receivers (rather than press) could be why they were flat. They were predictable, easy to block 1-1, and easy to run routes against.

Of all the numbers above that you posted, the diminished use of A. Collins really sticks out. If there was a defense to use the added T to impose will on a great DL, this was it. I posted previously their rationale for doing it against the Bears DL, and the success rate it brought. Maybe unneeded vs the Saints, but 1 snap vs the Eagles front when the OL is a bit of a mess? Eesh.   

Yeah the double A gap look is something that has kind of faded away as the season wears on.

The Vikings so rarely bring a blitzer, teams play the odds there, as they know most of the time neither will blitz. Then you have the problem of Barr getting blocked and not really being that effective when he does rush up the middle. He has made some pressures and sacks that way in the past, but it has really been awhile now I think since he got home on one. Kendricks is a bit better if they send him, but they usually need him for run keys and coverage, so your not going to send him that much either.

Just like the play action pass, you have to bring that blitz enough, and be effective enough with it, for teams to really be concerned. So many other teams use this same tactic and formation now as well. Teams are getting used to it.

I think it is mostly that the pressure isn't frequent enough for him to use it more, or hasn't been recently. So they might show it a lot of times presnap, but rarely ever send one of the LBs through.

So a change in play calling and the frequency of certain calls is something that Zimmer really needs to evaluate, and based on his comments, thats what he is doing. I understand why he does not send Barr more however, because Barr does not create pressure often enough when he has sent Barr, so he doesn't want to leave the coverage exposed from the failed blitz. 

So the Vikings need a LB who can do that.

Brian Ronison has been playing in the A gap standing up about as much as Barr, they even drop him in zone blitz sometimes. Not sure how often Robison has been getting home either. Need to look up the pressures because these guys were not getting sacks that much.

Zimmer needs to change some things, and I think he will. Using more of a rotation, especially spelling the older players a bit more makes sense to keep them fresh as well, but I think Zimmer wanted to play the experienced players more, so he did.

I have somewhat given up on griping about Rudolph crappy blocking. He plays a ton of snaps too, so Morgan only plays in the 2 TE. Being behind in the score brings Rudolph as a receiving option on the field more and the Vikings are even worse equipped to handle good pass rush. Rashod Hill played better than I ever expected, but he is still likely below average. He really needed some help, as in not Rudolph. But Morgan and Collins didn't really play, so it goes.

 

[modogg]

Might be time to rethink that

i've talked to quite a few people who went on Sunday. consensus was about 70% of people didn't see anything out of the usual (worse being Vikings fans getting boo'ed, and if we are talking about that than maybe we won't see even ground). One of my buddies was walking into the game and saw (he thinks) the big video out there of the girl walking up with some fans and the people lined up yelling at them. He said the girl was giving the finger to the crowd and yelling at them, so she did a good job riling them up before taping them. 

Really seemed the warm weather and late start were what encouraged so many people to come out. every parking lot was packed with tailgating, and gates opened at 11:30. it was also said by everyone, that all the bad crap out there was d-bag kids between 18-22. sounds like the push back was already coming when the Eagles fans left and the kids were still hanging out, and the actual fans were not playing with the kids. Some minor things, but if eagles lost it would have been a riot between white trash kids and Eagles fans, is what it sounds like was on the horizon. 

So there is 1st hand accounts. You can blame dumb youth, and you wouldn't be wrong. but generalizing to Eagles fans would be inaccurate

 

[fred_1_15301]

i've talked to quite a few people who went on Sunday. consensus was about 70% of people didn't see anything out of the usual (worse being Vikings fans getting boo'ed, and if we are talking about that than maybe we won't see even ground). One of my buddies was walking into the game and saw (he thinks) the big video out there of the girl walking up with some fans and the people lined up yelling at them. He said the girl was giving the finger to the crowd and yelling at them, so she did a good job riling them up before taping them. 

Really seemed the warm weather and late start were what encouraged so many people to come out. every parking lot was packed with tailgating, and gates opened at 11:30. it was also said by everyone, that all the bad crap out there was d-bag kids between 18-22. sounds like the push back was already coming when the Eagles fans left and the kids were still hanging out, and the actual fans were not playing with the kids. Some minor things, but if eagles lost it would have been a riot between white trash kids and Eagles fans, is what it sounds like was on the horizon. 

So there is 1st hand accounts. You can blame dumb youth, and you wouldn't be wrong. but generalizing to Eagles fans would be inaccurate

Well I can say that the Eagles fans on Footballguys and the ones who I know in real life are all pretty classy.  Small sample size but not the monsters that they're made out to be.

 

[Biabreakable]

Who cares?

 

[dhockster]

I think something to keep an eye on for the Vikings, is whether Zimmer is a big game head coach. In his tenure as a DC and a HC his teams have gone 1-8 in playoff games. Now 4 of those games were under Marvin Lewis, so that does not all fall on Zimmer, but his defenses haven't exactly distinguished themselves in the playoffs. He had one game that the Vikings should have won, but Walsh missed the FG in Seattle. Of course 99% of the time the Vikings loss the Saints game, so that kind of offsets the Seahawks game. He may be very similar to an Andy Reid type coach that can get you to the playoffs but can't do much when he gets there. Reid had early success in his career in the playoffs when Jim Johnson was his DC going 10-7. Since he lost Johnson his playoff record is 1-6.

 

[Biabreakable]

I think something to keep an eye on for the Vikings, is whether Zimmer is a big game head coach. In his tenure as a DC and a HC his teams have gone 1-8 in playoff games. Now 4 of those games were under Marvin Lewis, so that does not all fall on Zimmer, but his defenses haven't exactly distinguished themselves in the playoffs. He had one game that the Vikings should have won, but Walsh missed the FG in Seattle. Of course 99% of the time the Vikings loss the Saints game, so that kind of offsets the Seahawks game. He may be very similar to an Andy Reid type coach that can get you to the playoffs but can't do much when he gets there. Reid had early success in his career in the playoffs when Jim Johnson was his DC going 10-7. Since he lost Johnson his playoff record is 1-6.

I disagree with this perspective, including in regards to Andy Reid.

The only coach I can think of who has a track record of success in the playoffs in Bill and not really worth comparing other coaches to him.

I think players win playoff games. It is on the coaches to put them in situations where they can be successful and make it to the playoffs. Once in the playoffs the players need to play at a higher level to overcome the other team who by making the playoffs is also well coached and doing well.

 

[Biabreakable]

ZONE COVERAGE ROUNDTABLE: Who Plays Quarterback for the Vikings in 2018?

 

[Biabreakable]

A look at Minnesota’s non-quarterback free agents

Free agents at defensive tackle do not look very exciting. A lot of nose tackles and older players according to this

I am reading Tom Johnson will be 34 years old for the 2018 season.

The draft or a trade may be the only good option at under tackle, if there is one.

The free agent market at guard doesn't look that great either. 

 

[dhockster]

I disagree with this perspective, including in regards to Andy Reid.

The only coach I can think of who has a track record of success in the playoffs in Bill and not really worth comparing other coaches to him.

I think players win playoff games. It is on the coaches to put them in situations where they can be successful and make it to the playoffs. Once in the playoffs the players need to play at a higher level to overcome the other team who by making the playoffs is also well coached and doing well.

Obviously, players playing well helps you win playoff games. But in the playoffs, where the talent is closer to equal than in the regular season, coaching can win or lose a ballgame. I don't think it is a coincidence that Coughlin and Harbaugh have had success against the Patriots with far less talent at QB. Obviously, the sample size is small for Pederson, but I was shocked at how well they did against the Vikings and the Falcons when the talent level was relatively the same. I am not saying Zimmer isn't a good coach. But it has to be concerning when his teams over a period of time with all different players have not performed well in the playoffs.

 

[BigJim®]

Obviously, players playing well helps you win playoff games. But in the playoffs, where the talent is closer to equal than in the regular season, coaching can win or lose a ballgame. I don't think it is a coincidence that Coughlin and Harbaugh have had success against the Patriots with far less talent at QB. Obviously, the sample size is small for Pederson, but I was shocked at how well they did against the Vikings and the Falcons when the talent level was relatively the same. I am not saying Zimmer isn't a good coach. But it has to be concerning when his teams over a period of time with all different players have not performed well in the playoffs.

I'm not really following including his seasons in Cincinnati, at all. If you're going to assign blame to coordinators at the level of a head coach, then are you similarly crediting him for coaching his team to a Super Bowl win while in Dallas? If not, why not?

 

[Biabreakable]

Obviously, players playing well helps you win playoff games. But in the playoffs, where the talent is closer to equal than in the regular season, coaching can win or lose a ballgame. I don't think it is a coincidence that Coughlin and Harbaugh have had success against the Patriots with far less talent at QB. Obviously, the sample size is small for Pederson, but I was shocked at how well they did against the Vikings and the Falcons when the talent level was relatively the same. I am not saying Zimmer isn't a good coach. But it has to be concerning when his teams over a period of time with all different players have not performed well in the playoffs.

I think you are looking at a small sample size of games.

It isn't consistent with the level of play for the most part during the regular season, which has been very good under Zimmer. A playoff game is like the other games. Some times you win some times you lose.

If coaches were making the playoffs consistently, to me that seems like a good thing. Show me a coach with a good winning percentage in the playoffs besides Bill that Zimmer isn't living up to.

The coach isn't perfect but he has done a very good job and happy to have him as the head coach of the Vikings over any other coach. Its like making up reasons to doubt a guy who has done an excellent job. Don't understand it really.

 

[msommer]

 I see Keenum going to Giants with Shurmur. 

IMHO that would be at best plan C for Keenum. He took his team to the NFCCG. I expect he'd at least would want a location where he can compete for the starter position.

JAX maybe, BUF, ARI all seem like they would be more desirable than to sit and wait for Manning to be benched (again)

 

[Tool]

IMHO that would be at best plan C for Keenum. He took his team to the NFCCG. I expect he'd at least would want a location where he can compete for the starter position.

JAX maybe, BUF, ARI all seem like they would be more desirable than to sit and wait for Manning to be benched (again)

Keenum would only go to the Giants if Manning was playing elsewhere. 

 

[dhockster]

I'm not really following including his seasons in Cincinnati, at all. If you're going to assign blame to coordinators at the level of a head coach, then are you similarly crediting him for coaching his team to a Super Bowl win while in Dallas? If not, why not?

He started with the Cowboys in 1994 after they had won two super bowls and he was only a defensive backs coach in 1995. I think it is reasonable when he has defensive coordinator to look at how his defenses have performed in the playoffs. For the most part they haven't performed that well.

I think Andy Reid is very instructive when it comes to Zimmer. Reid got to 5 conference championships with the Eagles in his first 10 seasons as head coach, all with Jim Johnson as defensive coordinator. He has been to none in the past nine seasons without him despite making the playoffs 6 times. I think both Reid and Zimmer are good head coaches, I am just making the point that they I don't think they come up big in the playoffs. Perhaps if Zimmer finds the right OC, that will propel the Vikings to the next level.

Not trying to bash Zimmer, or say that it's time to move on from him. His playoff record is just part of his overall record and needs to be considered going forward. I know I got frustrated with Reid as a coach and wasn't too upset when the Eagles finally decided to move on.

 

[BigJim®]

Not trying to bash Zimmer, or say that it's time to move on from him. His playoff record is just part of his overall record and needs to be considered going forward. I know I got frustrated with Reid as a coach and wasn't too upset when the Eagles finally decided to move on.

Oh, I get it now. Just an Eagles fan lingering around the Vikings thread to ask thought provoking questions about the direction of a team they just beat. 

 

[modogg]

just re-watched the 1st half of the game with the Eagles. I recommend you guys watch it at some point. Score really didn't represent the game, Minny drove the ball in the 1st half kind of scarily easily. so lot of good there. i'm sure most of you know this already, but the final score has zero connection to where both teams are

 

[dhockster]

Oh, I get it now. Just an Eagles fan lingering around the Vikings thread to ask thought provoking questions about the direction of a team they just beat. 

Whatever, dude. If you think I am trolling, you haven't read any of my posts. I wish the Vikings and Mike Zimmer well next year.

 

[babydemon90]

just re-watched the 1st half of the game with the Eagles. I recommend you guys watch it at some point. Score really didn't represent the game, Minny drove the ball in the 1st half kind of scarily easily. so lot of good there. i'm sure most of you know this already, but the final score has zero connection to where both teams are

Turnovers will do that.  That pick 6, and then the sack/fumble really changed that game around.

 

[mr roboto]

just re-watched the 1st half of the game with the Eagles. I recommend you guys watch it at some point. Score really didn't represent the game, Minny drove the ball in the 1st half kind of scarily easily. so lot of good there. i'm sure most of you know this already, but the final score has zero connection to where both teams are

Turnovers (which Case avoided for the most part). That FG at the end of the half I said ‘I’m done’ and started cleaning the kitchen (I hosted 15 people). My guests thought I was overreacting. Nope. Eagles just had it. We didn’t. 

 

[Biabreakable]

Vikings still projected to receive two compensatory draft picks

 

[Insein]

Well I can say that the Eagles fans on Footballguys and the ones who I know in real life are all pretty classy.  Small sample size but not the monsters that they're made out to be.

We just hide it well.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Contract-year SLB Anthony Barr hopes to sign an extension with the Vikings.

"Yeah, I love it here,’’ Barr said Tuesday. "I really love this team. I love the city. I could see myself being here for the future." The No. 9 overall pick of the 2014 draft, Barr has proven to be more of a snap hog than anything else. He is not a play-maker. The Vikes will be looking for a team-friendly deal.

Was curious about this. As both Barr and Kendricks are in the last year of their contracts. My two local Viking friends both said they like Eric K way more then Anthony B.   Yet you guys have Gedeon sitting there as a more natural MLB. Wonder how much being a Zimmer pick plays into it.

 

[Biabreakable]

Contract-year SLB Anthony Barr hopes to sign an extension with the Vikings.

"Yeah, I love it here,’’ Barr said Tuesday. "I really love this team. I love the city. I could see myself being here for the future." The No. 9 overall pick of the 2014 draft, Barr has proven to be more of a snap hog than anything else. He is not a play-maker. The Vikes will be looking for a team-friendly deal.

Was curious about this. As both Barr and Kendricks are in the last year of their contracts. My two local Viking friends both said they like Eric K way more then Anthony B.   Yet you guys have Gedeon sitting there as a more natural MLB. Wonder how much being a Zimmer pick plays into it.

Remains to be seen.

As the quote mentions Barr plays a lot of snaps, but not really a play maker considering how many snaps he plays.

2017 Barr played on 923 defensive snaps 92.8% 3rd most on the team behind Harrison Smith and Eric Kendricks.

1 sack 6 passes defensed 52 tackles 23 assisted tackles.

Those are not very impressive numbers for how much he played. Fewer sacks than Barrs previous 3 seasons with the Vikings. Barr only has one interception in 4 years happened in 2015.

Doesn't seem like the productivity one is looking for in a franchise LB. Kendricks has done more than Barr in his 3 seasons.

I don't know if that means Gedeon is ready for an expanded role. I suppose they could still get out of the 5th year option with Barr, but I expect he will play with that this season. The Vikings still prioritize Kendricks with a long term deal over Barr.

 

[Gally]

Remains to be seen.

As the quote mentions Barr plays a lot of snaps, but not really a play maker considering how many snaps he plays.

2017 Barr played on 923 defensive snaps 92.8% 3rd most on the team behind Harrison Smith and Eric Kendricks.

1 sack 6 passes defensed 52 tackles 23 assisted tackles.

Those are not very impressive numbers for how much he played. Fewer sacks than Barrs previous 3 seasons with the Vikings. Barr only has one interception in 4 years happened in 2015.

Doesn't seem like the productivity one is looking for in a franchise LB. Kendricks has done more than Barr in his 3 seasons.

I don't know if that means Gedeon is ready for an expanded role. I suppose they could still get out of the 5th year option with Barr, but I expect he will play with that this season. The Vikings still prioritize Kendricks with a long term deal over Barr.

I think you stated earlier that Barr seems to be able to do a lot in coverage and other aspects that don't really show up on the stat sheet but are very important to the overall Vikings defense that may earn him more trust/credit with the coaching staff.  That trust could also allow some of the other schemes that worked most of the year so although Barr doesn't jump at you stat wise or splash play wise he allows the defense to do what it does and is a lot more valuable than given credit for.

 

[Biabreakable]

I think you stated earlier that Barr seems to be able to do a lot in coverage and other aspects that don't really show up on the stat sheet but are very important to the overall Vikings defense that may earn him more trust/credit with the coaching staff.  That trust could also allow some of the other schemes that worked most of the year so although Barr doesn't jump at you stat wise or splash play wise he allows the defense to do what it does and is a lot more valuable than given credit for.

I agree. Six passes defensed is pretty good for a LB.

I think Barr got exposed in coverage vs. Zach Ertz a few times against the Eagles. Ertz is very good. Barr is not quite that good.

If Barr could handle all receiving TE in coverage, then I wouldn't care about his blitzing and ability to bring pressure as much. He can't though. He is good in coverage, not great.

You are right though and I expect the Vikings to stay the course somewhat playing Barr and Kendricks for the 2018 season, then depending on how Barr plays, consider extending him.

I don't think Barr has played so well that he will demand big money as a free agent. The 5th year option is paying him more than what he has earned.

One of Ben Gedeon's main weaknesses is in coverage however and I doubt he ever becomes as good as Barr is in coverage. So it is relative to other options. I don't think Gedeon can just replace what Barr does for the defense completely. There would be new weaknesses if he were in the lineup over Barr.

 

[encaitar]

Barr is an interesting one.  I also wish he'd make a few more splash plays.  He also seems to miss tackles at the worst times, such as the 2 third down plays he had a chance to stop against the Eagles, but didn't.  

On the other hand, he's really smart.  You can see him calling out defensive audible all game.  He also is the play caller in the huddle and is the vocal leader on the field.  Not saying Kendricks couldn't take over these responsibilities, but I think it makes Barr a little more appealing than his just his numbers suggest.

If it comes down to an either/or situation though, I hope they choose Kendricks.  I like him much more.

 

[BigJim®]

With the Alex Smith trade, it will be interesting to hear rumors about Cousins. I'm in favor of the Vikes paying market value if they have cap flexibility. The thought of Cousins, continued investment into OL and a healed Dalvin Cook... it would make this a very difficult team to face in 2018.   

 

[Biabreakable]

With the Alex Smith trade, it will be interesting to hear rumors about Cousins. I'm in favor of the Vikes paying market value if they have cap flexibility. The thought of Cousins, continued investment into OL and a healed Dalvin Cook... it would make this a very difficult team to face in 2018.   

I like it.

Going to have to hold our nose at the price whoever it is. I would rather the Vikings get the best one. I think that is Cousins.

Imagine Diggs and Thielen with a good QB.

 

[BigJim®]

Imagine Diggs and Thielen with a good QB.

Agreed. I like this whole offense with a more capable downfield passer. He can also slide around in a pocket and stretch plays like Case.

So what is the latest on Fitzgerald? I'd swear I read a report that he's pondering his future with Arizona, probably pending where they too shake out at QB. I'd bet the Vikes would be right there holding their hat with a contender/hometown discount/swan song offer. Hard to think money would play any role in his thinking after the killing he made in Zona. Picture adding Fitz at slot, with his blocking skills, veteran leadership and red zone presence. Hey, a man can dream.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Cousins sure seems like a nice fit in Minny. 

You had 22 million tied into the 3 QBs from last year.  And another 11 million in "dead money" that is currently freed up before any cuts made this off-season. A total of 56 million in cap space currently before FA and rooks.

*Then draft him some linemen.

 

[Hov34]

With the Alex Smith trade, it will be interesting to hear rumors about Cousins. I'm in favor of the Vikes paying market value if they have cap flexibility. The thought of Cousins, continued investment into OL and a healed Dalvin Cook... it would make this a very difficult team to face in 2018.   

I want Cousins so bad.  I think he is ready to take the next step and with Diggs and Thielen I think he can do that.  Would be nice to have snagged Matt LaFleur as OC first.

 

[Biabreakable]

I do think Cousins would be a significant improvement, even over Bradford who did play well at times but faltered at others.

I was listening to KFaN earlier and they were talking $27-30 per season?

Thats nuts. That seems high, but there will be plenty of demand and competition for his services.

 

[BigJim®]

I do think Cousins would be a significant improvement, even over Bradford who did play well at times but faltered at others.

I was listening to KFaN earlier and they were talking $27-30 per season?

Thats nuts. That seems high, but there will be plenty of demand and competition for his services.

Plenty of demand, sure, but the bigger question is whether there are plenty of teams who can fit that into their cap. Anyone know the cap situation for Arizona/Denver, who I think are the only real competition (if Cousins narrows to contenders)?

 

[Biabreakable]

Plenty of demand, sure, but the bigger question is whether there are plenty of teams who can fit that into their cap. Anyone know the cap situation for Arizona/Denver, who I think are the only real competition (if Cousins narrows to contenders)?

Here is a list of the teams cap space for 2018.

Well. The Vikings are not outspending the Browns. Unless like you say Cousins does not want to go to the Browns, eliminating that option.

The Jets have $72 million. Are they interested?

The Vikings have $50 million. So there are only 7 teams with more cap space than the Vikings right now. One of those 7 teams is Washington who clearly does not want him. Would rather pay Alex Smith I guess (how much was that again?).

49ers will sign Garrapalo. Colts have Luck. Texans and Bucs have young franchise QBs. So the Browns and Jets can outspend the Vikings.

The Cardinals have almost $9 million cap space. They would need to cut some people. The Broncos have $26 million, so about half of what the Vikings have in space right now.

Tough decisions and cuts can be made though which would change this.

 

[Biabreakable]

Report: Alex Smith, Redskins Agree to New 4-Year Contract After Chiefs Trade

According to ESPN's Adam Schefter, the Redskins and Alex Smithnegotiated a four-year contract extension Tuesday shortly after the Kansas City Chiefs agreed to ship the seasoned signal-caller to the nation's capital.

NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reported Smith's extension is worth $94 million, including $71 million guaranteed. 

So $94 million over 4 years averages out to $23.5 million per season.

I would imagine that Cousins will be paid more than this. The question is how much more?

 

[snogger]

With the Alex Smith trade, it will be interesting to hear rumors about Cousins. I'm in favor of the Vikes paying market value if they have cap flexibility. The thought of Cousins, continued investment into OL and a healed Dalvin Cook... it would make this a very difficult team to face in 2018.   

Doubt they go that way for QB.. pretty sure Cousins is going to Denver and the Vikes will sign 1 or 2 of the QB's they know.

 

[snore]

Doubt they go that way for QB.. pretty sure Cousins is going to Denver and the Vikes will sign 1 or 2 of the QB's they know.

I agree With this but that would be sooo underwhelming. They will either franchise or transition Case and resign sam or teddy for a lesser deal.