Biabreakable
Footballguy
Pretty sure he is a Packers fan. So have to take his insights into improving the team of his rival with a grain of salt. Sure the Packers would like to see the Vikings struggle with mediocrity at QB indefinitely.
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Minnesota Vikings Team Thread (2 Viewers)
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Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
First off, for full disclosure, I am no Viking fan. I am a Packer Fan. I have even been described as a Packer troll, though I conduct myself politely, do not offer excessive opions, and rarely am anything but proper and polite, even when I disagree.
As for Cousins, I am just going with an eyeball test, not arguing stats. My recollection is that he has big games, occasionally, but that he finds ways to disappear in important contests. He is good, he puts up stats. Even impressive stats, but he doesn't tilt the field, he doesn't dominate games. He is just another competent Q.B. The Vikes had that with Bridgewater, then Bradford, and then Keenum. Is he a bit better, maybe. Is he Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Wentz, Roethlisberger, Rivers, Newton, Stafford, Wilson, I don't think so.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
No, as a Packer fan I would like to see the Vikings overpay for an asset that does not really improve the team.
No, I gave a sincere evaluation. That others disagree is the nature of opinion. Lord knows I am wrong more often than right. As for my opinon on Bridgewater, he was a guy throwing around 65% completions very early in his career with an unstable coaching situation and the distraction of a prima donna back and with no line protection. That is impressive from an inexperienced guy. I think he was on an impressive trajectory. Granted, two years gone by with no information and with his mobility in now question for us fans he is a giant "?"
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BigJim®
Footballguy
Fair enough. JMHO, Cousins is a heck of a lot closer to Brees than Bridgewater. I think you have to also take into consideration where he's been playing, and what it takes to excel as a QB when your defense is rated 23-30. As far as golden tickets go, that might work in Green Bay, but in Minnesota golden tickets take the form of Tarvaris Jackson, Christian Ponder and Teddy Bridgewater, and they cost 3 seasons apiece to fall short. This particular squad can't tolerate that risk.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Well you do have to like that Cousins had the confidence to bet on himself the last two years by playing under the franchise tag. That speaks loudly.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Well Washington seems to think Cousins isn't much better than Alex Smith, so you are not alone in that opinion.
I think Cousins is quite a bit better than that.
Bradford and Keenum have had career years with the Vikings the last two seasons, showing that there is a good supporting cast for QBs to be successful here. I for one think Cousins could take the offense to another level that would be an upgrade from what the Vikings have had.
I do love Teddy Bridgewater and I hope he able to have a successful career as a QB ahead. I just don't think there is enough evidence for the Vikings to put all their trust in him at this time.
BigJim®
Footballguy
I'd be surprised if Bridgewater contract actually tolls for 2017 based on what I saw of the CBA wording... i.e. that it does not toll for a player who is PUP for 6 weeks, which Bridgewater definitely was. It doesn't surprise me that the Vikes are not taking a vocal stance on it as it is out of their hands and they don't want bad PR, but it's not clear what is ambiguous or debatable about that concept.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
It would be as radical as having a backup T.E. throw a pass on 4th and goal.
Anyhow, good luck in the off season. The Vikings are going to be a big story with their three free agent Q.B.'s and with Cook rehabbing. Few teams are going to be as interesting to follow. Rodgers dating Ms. Go Daddy pales in comparison.
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Ben & Jerry's
Footballguy
If the Vikings sign the Eagles QB coach as their Offensive Coordinator you can expect they will at least kick the tires on Foles.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I don't really want them to?
Foles played well and from what I heard the Eagles installed parts of Chip Kelly's offense that worked so well for him before. So if they do sign the Eagles QB coach, perhaps there would be some continuity with that, as well as aspects of this offense that might work well for other QBs also.
It isn't that far from what the Vikings were already doing with Pat Shurmur who did learn things from Chip Kelly as well. Kevin Stefanski the Vikings QB coach from last year is another OC candidate as well. Based on the options the Vikings are reported to be considering, all of them seem to be focused on coaches who have experience working with QBs. Dan Campbell who has been a head coach before briefly with Miami is the only one not specifically tied to working with QBs.
BigJim®
Footballguy
Long before that. I'm assuming the Vikings would need to trade their 1st to Philly, as the 2nd is a late pick. If the Vikings trade a 1st, or even a 2nd, folks will be burning stuff down like they lived in Philly.
Gopher State
Footballguy
On a side note great story in St. Paul pioneer press about eagle fan stealing a seat from the stadium even video. I am to lazy to link it so you have to google it
babydemon90
Footballguy
Don't see it. After trading us a 1st for Bradford, I think paying us yet another 1st for a QB wouldn't sit well with fans.
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
sports_fan
Footballguy
I don't know how to feel about this. He's seemingly a rising coaching talent but with a roster setup to win now it may have been better to go with someone more experienced.
skol asylum
Footballguy
@AdamSchefter: Vikings are hiring former Eagles’ QB coach John DeFilippo as their OC, per source.
Super Bowl brain drain underway in Philadelphia.
@SiriusXMNFL: "They're getting a very, very, very industrious & very smart, young coach. He's worked his way up in the profession.. knows the game.. understands Quarterback play. He's a bright, young coach. Easy to get along with."
-Bill Polian on the Vikings new OC John DeFilippo https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/961768191595827200
Super Bowl brain drain underway in Philadelphia.
@SiriusXMNFL: "They're getting a very, very, very industrious & very smart, young coach. He's worked his way up in the profession.. knows the game.. understands Quarterback play. He's a bright, young coach. Easy to get along with."
-Bill Polian on the Vikings new OC John DeFilippo https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/961768191595827200
skol asylum
Footballguy
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Seems good at teaching and making the plays fun to follow.
Step on 3 ants is pretty funny.
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BigJim®
Footballguy
Indeed. Pretty impressive. I was expecting less from a QB coach.Seems good at teaching and making the plays fun to follow.
Step on 3 ants is pretty funny.
Gopher State
Footballguy
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
BigJim®
Footballguy
Now PFT is speculating the DeFillippo/Foles connection. That's just insanity, giving the team that just beat you 38-7 more early round draft pick(s), for another expendable QB. I will admit though, how Foles played for this coach was intriguing.
An interesting point I hadn't considered, DeFillippo probably knows a lot of intel of how the Eagles D operates. Could make an interesting angle for the 2018 meeting.
An interesting point I hadn't considered, DeFillippo probably knows a lot of intel of how the Eagles D operates. Could make an interesting angle for the 2018 meeting.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
It will be interesting to hear Zimmer and Spielmans comments about the decision.
I like that they are sticking with the WCO and the OC brings some fresh ideas with him just as Pat Shurmur did from some of the things he learned with Chip Kelly.
From Zimmers perspective, the Eagles must have done some good things on offense.
He is a QB focused coach, so whoever is the Vikings QB next season should get good coaching.
Maybe some would have preferred Bevel who is more experienced, but DeFlippo may be into doing newer creative things.
Hopefully Cousins likes it and he becomes the starting QB for the Vikings for awhile. Otherwise need to get out the duct tape and hopefully cobble something together again.
I like that they are sticking with the WCO and the OC brings some fresh ideas with him just as Pat Shurmur did from some of the things he learned with Chip Kelly.
From Zimmers perspective, the Eagles must have done some good things on offense.
He is a QB focused coach, so whoever is the Vikings QB next season should get good coaching.
Maybe some would have preferred Bevel who is more experienced, but DeFlippo may be into doing newer creative things.
Hopefully Cousins likes it and he becomes the starting QB for the Vikings for awhile. Otherwise need to get out the duct tape and hopefully cobble something together again.
BigJim®
Footballguy
I'm also hoping he can develop Sloter for the longer term. I saw some pre-season highlights and sure looks the part, with a strong arm.
skol asylum
Footballguy
Random tweet...
@AndyCarlsonShow: [Scene: JDF OC Interview]
Zimmer: What would you do 4th & 3 at your opponent's 40?
DeFilippo: Run a sweet ### trick play and go for it.
Zimmer: Cool. We're gonna punt in that spot.
@AndyCarlsonShow: [Scene: JDF OC Interview]
Zimmer: What would you do 4th & 3 at your opponent's 40?
DeFilippo: Run a sweet ### trick play and go for it.
Zimmer: Cool. We're gonna punt in that spot.
simsarge
Footballguy
Herb
Footballguy
The more I hear about DiFilippo the more I like the hire. He seems innovative and smart. Has a great background in QB development (Wentz), got Nick Foles to play like Steve Young in the postseason, and got Josh McCown and Johnny FREAKIN Manziel to platoon in an effective offense in CLEVELAND for God sake. Let that sink in.
As for Foles, no chance IMO. Cousins seems slightly more likely but I don't believe that will happen either. Bridgewater seems the most likely of the 3 to return, since I don't see them spending the required money to bring in Keenum or Bradford. At this point Bradford is just damaged goods anyway, although there's no denying his talent.
As for Foles, no chance IMO. Cousins seems slightly more likely but I don't believe that will happen either. Bridgewater seems the most likely of the 3 to return, since I don't see them spending the required money to bring in Keenum or Bradford. At this point Bradford is just damaged goods anyway, although there's no denying his talent.
BigJim®
Footballguy
I think the same may be said for Bridgewater until we actually see how the near loss of his leg translates to ability to play 16+ NFL games. His injury sounded more severe than the history that cost a "healed" Bradford all but 1 game in 2017. Injury aside, I just didn't see anything from Bridgewater, and truly the only thing that can be hoped is "he was on a trajectory to possibly become a good QB." The same was true for Tarvaris/Ponder, until it wasn't, and time was lost. I'll definitely be white knuckling it if the Vikes head into 2018 with an unproven QB who has taken only 4 snaps in the past 2 years. That's nothing but roulette wheel stuff to me.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Sloter obviously has some promise or they wouldn't have kept him on the active roster all of last season.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
I will be surprised if Cousins gets the kinda of money that he and the media are expecting. You have to question if the Redskins are willing to walk away, whether other teams see him similarly. I like Cousins mostly for his desire to win but at the same time I don't think he is super talented. IMO Bradford may have more talent than Cousins but the injury concerns with Bradford may be too significant. .
The medical questions is something us fans really don't have enough information about. How significant are Bridgewater's and Bradford's injuries? Are they reliable enough to may it through a couple of season. They are payed to be on the field.
I keep wondering if the Vikings go with a cheaper option like Tyrod Taylor for this season, develop Kyle Sloter and draft a QB if Bridgewater's injury concerns are too significant. That said, in terms of draft position, are Lamar Jackson and Vikings on a collision course? Vikings possibly drafting a QB hasn't been something that hasn't been discussed so far.
BigJim®
Footballguy
On Cousins, I'm basically ignoring any and all reports. First off, I can see the Redskins peeing in the pool to cover themselves for their own bungling of that whole situation, and losing him for no return. When I saw a PFT story that Cousins is likely to ask for a % of the cap guarantee like he asked of the Redskins, it made me wonder gee, who is leaking this info and why? What Cousins asked the Redskins for (or whether he did) is irrelevant IMHO based on the ongoing problems he had getting a longer term commitment there, reportedly driven by Redskins own reluctance to commit to him when they had the better opportunity. Of course they are feeling a need to explain their boof. They oddly gambled against him while paying franchise $, and it cost them. I think ultimately it will come down to a decision of whether Cousins wants a top 5 salary with a contender or highest ever from Cleveland.
I also don't expect the Vikings to say wow we have to sign this guy, or to downplay possibility they prefer Bridgewater/Case or whomever. It's negotiation 101. If you read anything attributed to Viking sources, bet the opposite.
I'm not in favor of using a high pick to draft a prospect, which is what they would have to do as an actual solution vs. dice roll. A lower pick may or may not be better than the prospect we have (Sloter). I'd actually rather go with the semi-proven Case as a stop gap and use the earlier picks on OL/DL/CB/LB.
ETA: Tyrod and L.Jackson don't do much for me. A mobile (aka soon to be injured) QB is just not worth it. Give me a guy who stands in the pocket and can move a little when needed.
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100% disagree with that. Bridgewater had 2 solid seasons under his belt. Ponder and Jackson were never on his level. I agree that Teddy is a risk with basically 2 years off, but he was good in 2014 and 2015. Wasn't his fault he had almost no help around him.
I don't think Bradford did any better than Bridgewater would have in 2016. By 2017, the offense had changed and was much more QB friendly. Keenum had a great year, but again, was it him being an upgrade, or the offense in general.
I'm not a Vikings fan, though I live in the area so I follow them as much as anyone. I think Bridgewater is the highest ceiling option by a wide margin. There could still easily be a pro bowl QB in there, and he's only what 25? Keenum is probably 2nd and Bradford 3rd among the incumbents.
I think Cousins would be a waste of money. I'm not sure he's better than those guys. He's been a full-time starter for 4 years, and was extremely inconsistent, in a very QB friendly offense.
I think that would be a best case scenario. Taylor has been so good for Buffalo, arguably been the best player on their team for 3 years, and they have basically treated him like a liability. He's a top-15 NFL QB in my eyes. He was still good this year, even though they actively game planned against his strengths at times. I bet DiFilippo could get very creative with Taylor. He's clearly better than Cousins in my opinion, and will be quite a bit cheaper too.
skol asylum
Footballguy
I continue to think Bradford is the most talented QB on the team. He can't stay healthy though and he isn't mobile. Give me a solid line and he will tear apart defenses. Keenum is scrappy and works hard. Has some nice mobility but in the end probably an overachiever. Bridgewater...the guy almost lost his leg. Before that mobility was a strength. Now? He never showed much of an arm but was smart and accurate with the ball.
I'm good with Cousins but rather than didn't over pay. I'm also good with Bradford/Keenum for a year while they position for a rookie or to see if Sloter has it. I loved what Foles showed in the playoffs but I hope the Vikes don't go crazy and give up a high pick(s) for him.
I'm good with Cousins but rather than didn't over pay. I'm also good with Bradford/Keenum for a year while they position for a rookie or to see if Sloter has it. I loved what Foles showed in the playoffs but I hope the Vikes don't go crazy and give up a high pick(s) for him.
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BigJim®
Footballguy
Agree to disagree. Maybe by tainted TJack/Ponder standards he was solid, but according to NFL standards he was way below average at 3000/14 and a QBR in the 80's. I'm not going to argue he had a great OL, because it stunk, but I want to see a guy actually show something and he didn't do it for me.travdogg said:
Bridgewater played with a bad o-line, and no weapons at all. Patterson and Charles Johnson were starting WR's those years. Jairus Wright was the #1, until rookie Diggs showed up for half a season, and Rudolph was almost never healthy. 3,000/14 is impressive with that group.
When he went down in 2016, I felt he was the best QB out of the 2013-14 classes.
I agree with most points but no chance of bringing back both Bradford and Keenum.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I think Teddy Bridgewater has shown signs of being a very good QB.
I have posted some of that stuff in the Bridgewater thread.
Despite injury concerns, the Vikings have reason to turn to Teddy Bridgewater
Christian Ponder was afraid to push the ball down the field, at all. So scared of throwing an interception. He could not read defenses. He would try to run instead of risk a pass if he could. Not really fair to compare Bridgewater to Ponder in my opinion. Bridgewater is a lot better than that. Or at least he was.
I think it is pretty safe to say Pat Shurmur was an improvement over Norv Turner, Teddy only got to play for Norv. The WR were not developed yet. Teddy played with Diggs as a rookie, Thielen had not yet emerged. He was throwing to Mike Wallace and Charles Johnson a lot of the time. It also was only his second season in the league. It usually takes awhile for these guys to start playing well, and QB tend to peak later on in their careers than in their first few seasons.
I do agree with you though that Teddy needs to show improvement from what he has accomplished so far to be considered a starting QB. I think that could have happened if he had not been injured. I don't know if he can now. I don't know if the injury is going to be something that takes some of his ability away, such as his scrambling ability. This was one of the things Teddy did really well, he had good pocket presence and can move around and buy time for plays to develop, similar to Case Keenum. Who knows if he still has that mobility now though? He may not be the same player anymore. Some of the things he used to do, maybe he can't do those things as well now. Only the coaches who have seen him practice really know where he is at right now as far as that goes.
I of course and hoping for the best. Teddy is good at reading defenses and I think he can be a very good QB in the NFL if he is physically able to play again.
BigJim®
Footballguy
Yeah, I don't think we'll see eye to eye on that. I'll buy a 'maybe, just maybe he's better than he looked' opinion. Sure, stranger things have happened, look at Case. It's just sort of jarring to read 'impressive' describe a QB, under any circumstances, who averaged 180/1 TD over a 27 game span. Like his OL and his receivers, he was mediocre at his best.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
DeFilippo on Choosing The Vikings, His Offense, QB Position
He says he was offered other OC positions, but that he has a lot of respect for the Vikings and couldn't pass up the opportunity to work with Zimmer and this team.
He says they are going to evaluate what the Vikings did well, and continue to do those things. Then there will be some new things that are incorporated based off of that.
Decision making, timing and accuracy are the most important qualities for a QB.
He says his input on the QB decision will be well researched.
The 2 best red zone traits are being able to run the football. RBs who can account for the unblocked player.Plays that our QBs feel comfortable with against the coverage we are seeing to throw the ball down there.
He talks about the two years he worked with coach Sparano with the Raiders.
Coach Zimmer is a coach who has made him stay up late and a mutual respect for the problems Zimmers defense present. He says ZImmer and Spielman love football, so it was really comfortable getting to know them.
He talks about finding out what a player is comfortable with and running those plays, similar to what Pat Shurmur has talked about.
He says he is a glass half full kind of guy. Very positive.
He says there is nothing better you can do than let a QB play. Situational football is only learned on the field. So if you draft a QB high, in his opinion, you should play him. He says the improvement in Wentz in his second season was because of being able to learn from and correct mistakes, that could only happen if he plays.
He says he loves Dalvin Cook coming out of the draft. Loved him. He knew he was a very special player. The skill players on the outside are special players who can really play. Rudolph is a good player. The offensive line has been greatly improved from the first time we played them (2016). All of these things were enticing to me as well as the overall team.
He says he was offered other OC positions, but that he has a lot of respect for the Vikings and couldn't pass up the opportunity to work with Zimmer and this team.
He says they are going to evaluate what the Vikings did well, and continue to do those things. Then there will be some new things that are incorporated based off of that.
Decision making, timing and accuracy are the most important qualities for a QB.
He says his input on the QB decision will be well researched.
The 2 best red zone traits are being able to run the football. RBs who can account for the unblocked player.Plays that our QBs feel comfortable with against the coverage we are seeing to throw the ball down there.
He talks about the two years he worked with coach Sparano with the Raiders.
Coach Zimmer is a coach who has made him stay up late and a mutual respect for the problems Zimmers defense present. He says ZImmer and Spielman love football, so it was really comfortable getting to know them.
He talks about finding out what a player is comfortable with and running those plays, similar to what Pat Shurmur has talked about.
He says he is a glass half full kind of guy. Very positive.
He says there is nothing better you can do than let a QB play. Situational football is only learned on the field. So if you draft a QB high, in his opinion, you should play him. He says the improvement in Wentz in his second season was because of being able to learn from and correct mistakes, that could only happen if he plays.
He says he loves Dalvin Cook coming out of the draft. Loved him. He knew he was a very special player. The skill players on the outside are special players who can really play. Rudolph is a good player. The offensive line has been greatly improved from the first time we played them (2016). All of these things were enticing to me as well as the overall team.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
babydemon90
Footballguy
For the record, most Eagles fan really don't want to trade you Foles either Dude was making high difficulty throws, reading defenses and going exactly where he needed - and you have his QB coach. We were pretty happy with the way the NFC championship game turned out, so please - stick with Bridgewater or Keenum!
Dude was making high difficulty throws, reading defenses and going exactly where he needed - and you have his QB coach. We were pretty happy with the way the NFC championship game turned out, so please - stick with Bridgewater or Keenum!
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Your Mom.
