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Minnesota Vikings Team Thread (4 Viewers)
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Football Jones
Footballguy
I don’t believe the Vikings will go after Foles. I’d really be surprised. I know I wouldn’t. No way.
Minnesota has a chance to be really special if they get this right. Of course, it’s a fine line with the salary cap & long-term success. Short-term, a QB upgrade makes them the clear favorites in the NFC as things stand now.
As a Dallas fan, I hope they screw it up
(nothing personal, LOL).
Minnesota has a chance to be really special if they get this right. Of course, it’s a fine line with the salary cap & long-term success. Short-term, a QB upgrade makes them the clear favorites in the NFC as things stand now.
As a Dallas fan, I hope they screw it up
(nothing personal, LOL).
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I don't think the Vikings trade anything for Foles either and the Eagles likely want to keep him. They should. Having two viable QBs is something thats important when a lot of teams can't even find one.
IF the Vikings did it would be because DeFlippo really sold them on it.
IF the Vikings did it would be because DeFlippo really sold them on it.
BigJim®
Footballguy
I agree with this, but it would diminish DeFilippo in my eyes. He'd be saying the QB I need to be successful is a guy my new team needs forklift draft currency to obtain, and weaken its future. Not only that, but improving the team that just spanked us, who we're trying to improve to compete with in 2018. Hopefully he has more confidence than that.
need2know
Footballguy
Clear favorites my ###I don’t believe the Vikings will go after Foles. I’d really be surprised. I know I wouldn’t. No way.
Minnesota has a chance to be really special if they get this right. Of course, it’s a fine line with the salary cap & long-term success. Short-term, a QB upgrade makes them the clear favorites in the NFC as things stand now.
As a Dallas fan, I hope they screw it up
dhockster
Footballguy
Give it up. Football Jones has had the same opinion since late in the regular season. The Eagle's playoff run has been irrelevant to him.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
I don't agree with this at all. He'd be going with a guy he knows and trusts. Who wouldn't? Do you think BB would swap Brady for Rodgers? That Payton would rather have Roethlisberger than Brees? If you have a guy you know can run your O the way you want it run, why would you rather go get someone else that might not see it the same way? I totally understand someone new to both of them preferring Cousins to Foles, but I would 100% expect DeFilippo (and Pederson, actually) to prefer the guy he knows.
No matter who he gets it's gonna cost, you don't get QB's for free. Tons of cap space, a pick in trade, a rookie via pick, whatever. There's always price to pay to get a QB. It's far more important you get the right guy than it is you get the right cost. If you hit on an elite QB the price is irrelevant, that QB will take you farther than any combination of a few other positions will. You could take any three guys off that MIN team and replace them with average talents and put Rodgers in there and be much better off.
Herb
Footballguy
Agree with most of your post, but I know you're not a Vikings fan because of the bolded. This franchise to this point, with one very notable exception, has throughout it's history never been able to find an elite QB. As a fan I no longer even have an expectation this will happen, unfortunately.
That said, Foles is not an elite QB IMO. He had a spectacular run and his coaches did a great job putting him in position to make that run. Can he do it over the long haul? Is Foles good enough to play that well consistently over several seasons as opposed to three brilliant game plans over a single postseason? I have doubts. There's no way a guy like Spielman, who covets draft picks in abundance over all else, will part with the necessary capital (to a Super Bowl winning team that trounced them in the NFCCG and with whom they will have to contend with for the next few years, which we already gave a #1 pick to 2 years ago, no less) to acquire Foles. Foles is in no way a surer bet than Keenum or Bridgewater (injury concerns aside) at this stage. I'd rather overpay for Cousins than send a 2nd or whatever it would take to the Eagles for Foles. I suspect the Vikings front office feels the same.
BigJim®
Footballguy
Right, but when a nookie blankie guy may require 2 of the 3 things you mentioned, and involves moving of draft currency to the team you need to catch, that has to be considered in the general principle you are describing. It becomes too much for a comfort selection, and a viable OC should not need his team to do too much to accommodate his coaching ability. Existence of alternatives is also a consideration.
I actually don't disagree with much of what you are saying in principle. For example, I've said I would pay top 5 $ for Cousins, who importantly to that opinion does not involve moving draft picks at all. I am against another rookie when there are more proven options and a prospect already in development. DeFilippo has said he believes in putting a rookie in immediately to play (using Wentz as an example), and I don't think the Vikes are in position to draft anyone who is capable of that.
Herb
Footballguy
I think they are 2nd in the NFC, but unfortunately they are not that close to the Eagles. If you line up just the starters of those 2 teams, I like the Vikings slightly over the Eagles. But the Eagles depth is ridiculous. They lost a potential MVP QB and an All Pro LT, among many others, and still won the SB. They run 3-4 deep at RB, which has become an underappreciated facet of NFL offenses, the depth they have all over their defense, especially the line, is overwhelming. It exposed what we feared all year- that if the defense suffers a couple key injuries (Rhodes, Sendejo) at the wrong time, things would get ugly. The Vikes need to improve depth everywhere, especially along the lines and LB corps. I trust the FO to eventually get the QB situation figured out, whoever it ends up being. But we can't expect to go through another season like 2017, where the elite starters on defense stayed remarkably healthy all year. They really need at least 1 more decent player at T, G, DE, DT, OLB, S, CB, even if they're not starters.
The Packers aren't even a consideration. Not that they can't beat out the Vikes in the North, but their roster is not close to the caliber of ours, with QB being the (massive) exception.
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BigJim®
Footballguy
As much as it pains me to admit, I think coaching is (was?) also a difference. I like Zimmer, I really do. In no way am I calling for his head, because he accomplished a lot in 2017 despite setbacks at QB/RB, can put together a lethal defensive game plan, and can continue to grow as a coach.
However, just like a player he needs to learn from what worked for him, what didn't (and why) during self scouting. Like a lot of old school coaches, he has a tendency to 'play not to lose' when things are going good (2nd half against Saints, and at times with regular season leads), or in approach to a big games (Eagles & the Carolina regular season game which decided playoff home field advantage). That Carolina game still gnaws at me. In 2016 with nothing to lose, the Vikes used a ferocious pressure game plan that resulted in 8 sacks/3 INTs, a Newton QBR of 46, and decisive win. With home field on the line in 2017, the Vikes used a frustrating zero pass rush 'keep Cam in the pocket and let FGs decide this' game plan.
You have to tip your hat to coaches like Belichick and Pederson, who stay committed to what they do well, are not afraid to take chances, and put the pedal to the metal. An example of this was near the end of the 1st half of the Eagles game, the Eagles drove down the field with 29 seconds left and tagged a FG onto a 21-7 lead, making it a 3 possession stranglehold on momentum heading into halftime. 100/100 times Zimmer takes a knee there on offense, and his prevent defense against aggression did not work.
Coaching mentality is a huge x-factor when you are comparing similar talent. JMHO, players sense this, and it alters their performance. It's a field tilting thing.
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Football Jones
Footballguy
With a QB upgrade? Absolutely the Vikings would be the clear favorite. No question with an upgraded QB & Cook returning to go with what they already have in all 3 phases.
They have a legitimate shot to be a monster in 2018.
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Football Jones
Footballguy
I’ve been very complementary of the Eagles, but some of you guys seem to think Philly should automatically be considered favorites next year.
It simply doesn’t work that way. Ask Atlanta. Each season is its own entity. If I thought the Eagles were favorites next season, I’d say so. I’d love to say Dallas is the favorite, but that’s not the case, either.
I expect the Vikings to get a QB upgrade. If so, they’ve got to be considered clear favorites. I also believe the Rams will have a leg up on you guys. I’d put the Eagles 3rd. That’s nothing to sneeze at in the tough NFC (& it’s only going to get tougher).
I know you say you don’t take it personal, but you do. My honest advice is to get over it & enjoy the Super Bowl win. So what if you’re the 3rd-ranked team going into next season? My favorite team is ranked even lower, LOL.
Besides, it’s only a paper ranking. I’m confident in ranking the Vikings at the top & the Rams 2nd, but there are obviously a ton of variables.
I’m looking forward to a great season & a fantastic race for the playoffs, especially in the NFC.
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dhockster
Footballguy
Not automatically, but there should be valid reasons for why you will think they will take a step back or another team will improve over them. I can accept what you say about the Vikings, although I am not convinced yet that they select a QB that will be an upgrade at QB. But you thinking the Rams will be better is puzzling. Philly beat the Rams, beat the Falcons, beat the Vikings. The Rams lost to the Eagles, lost to the Falcons, lost to the Vikings. You think McVay COULD be a coaching genius, yet Pederson showed he may already BE a coaching genius with the dismantling of the Vikings D in the playoffs and outcoaching Belicheck in the Super Bowl.Football Jones said:
Rankings mean nothing when it comes to what actually happens next year, so I don't really care where you have the Eagles ranked. I just wished you supported your points better.
Oh, and i am loving the Super Bowl win. Can we have another parade this week?
Football Jones ranks Prescott ahead of Wentz, so don't take anything he says seriously. He's been proven wrong with every post he made during the playoffs.Not automatically, but there should be valid reasons for why you will think they will take a step back or another team will improve over them. I can accept what you say about the Vikings, although I am not convinced yet that they select a QB that will be an upgrade at QB. But you thinking the Rams will be better is puzzling. Philly beat the Rams, beat the Falcons, beat the Vikings. The Rams lost to the Eagles, lost to the Falcons, lost to the Vikings. You think McVay COULD be a coaching genius, yet Pederson showed he may already BE a coaching genius with the dismantling of the Vikings D in the playoffs and outcoaching Belicheck in the Super Bowl.
Rankings mean nothing when it comes to what actually happens next year, so I don't really care where you have the Eagles ranked. I just wished you supported your points better.
Oh, and i am loving the Super Bowl win. Can we have another parade this week?
As for actual discussion, if Minnesota manages to sign Cousins, they could well ne the league favorite to win it all next year. I agree with Herb regarding their defensive depth, though. Big positional drop offs when a starter goes down. If they straighten out the QB position and get Cook back healthy, they are a scary team.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
This is not an Eagles thread. Piss off.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
they were not winning a road playoff game with Case Keenum. He wilted after that pick 6. it was overBigJim® said:
dhockster
Footballguy
Sorry. Carrying on an argument with a Cowboy fan from another thread. I will piss off.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Report: Vikings deny QBs coach Stefanski chance to interview with Giants
I think it is a good thing that the Vikings brought in DeFlippo for a new perspective. Keeping Stefanski who was also considered for the OC position allows the Vikings to have some continuity.
If the Vikings do bring back any of their 3 QBs then they will already be familiar with Stefanski. They are staying in a similar offensive system anyways, which I think is a good thing, but Stefanski will be able to translate any new things in ways that are already familiar to the players on offense, such as the receivers.
Vikings can carry over red zone success under new OC DeFilippo
This is an area that I have seen Zimmer emphasize since he became the head coach of the Vikings. This is an area that DeFlippo specialized in with the Raiders. So it seems like a good match there as far as prioritizing red zone offense.
I think it is a good thing that the Vikings brought in DeFlippo for a new perspective. Keeping Stefanski who was also considered for the OC position allows the Vikings to have some continuity.
If the Vikings do bring back any of their 3 QBs then they will already be familiar with Stefanski. They are staying in a similar offensive system anyways, which I think is a good thing, but Stefanski will be able to translate any new things in ways that are already familiar to the players on offense, such as the receivers.
Vikings can carry over red zone success under new OC DeFilippo
This is an area that I have seen Zimmer emphasize since he became the head coach of the Vikings. This is an area that DeFlippo specialized in with the Raiders. So it seems like a good match there as far as prioritizing red zone offense.
modogg
Footballguy
i think saying "clear" is what is getting you in trouble here. One boneheaded play by a rookie DB was the difference between them making the championship game or not. I lean toward @BigJim® a bit in that maybe the coaching could hold the Vikings back, but hard to say anything is clear at this point. if you would have told me last January that 3 of the top 4 teams in the NFC were the Vikings, Rams, Eagles i think you wouldn't have had many believers.Football Jones said:
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Yeah I wonder about that also. Not sure if it is part of the contract they have or what gives them the ability to deny the Giants interviewing him.
I guess it is because he is still under contract for 2018 and unless another team is offering a head coaching position, the Vikings can deny an interview.
So while it would be a promotion, I guess moving from assistant to OC isn't one that teams have to allow.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
Zulgad: This is one block the Vikings shouldn’t have been able to make
Not really a fan of Zulgad most of the time but I guess I agree with him here. He still worries too much about stuff though.
Not really a fan of Zulgad most of the time but I guess I agree with him here. He still worries too much about stuff though.
babydemon90
Footballguy
Nope, they can block non-HC interviews. Same thing happened with your new OC, the Eagles blocked DeFeliipo last year from interviewing, Contract was up so they couldn't this year,
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Football Jones
Footballguy
The caveat is if the Vikings get a QB upgrade. If so, I think they’re the clear favorite. In other words, there’s nobody else close enough to seriously consider at #1. And I feel confident in that ranking.
Now, if the Vikes don’t get an upgraded QB, it needs to be revisited, but I suspect they’ll get one.
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encaitar
Footballguy
The only guy out there that is really an upgrade is Cousins. I don't think the Vikings are certain to get him, there's going to be quite the bidding war.
Otherwise I think they end up with one of the three QBs they had this year and I don't see how that's an upgrade unless it's Bridgewater and he comes back 100% and improved on what he was before he got hurt. Lot of ifs in that scenario.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
I was under the impression that the Vikings have a healthier cap situation than many teams. even if they do not get Cousins 9who I do not consider as large an upgrade as do many) they seem well positioned to snag another impactful free agent. That and the return of Cook could bode well for them next season.
encaitar
Footballguy
They do. I believe they have over $60M in room and could find another $10M with restructures if they needed to. I do think they'll improve at multiple positions, but I was just referring to the QB position. Football Jones thinks that with an upgrade at QB the Vikes will be the big NFC favorites. I was saying that Cousins is really the only upgrade at QB on the market and they won't be alone in pursuing him. Plus, like you said, he might not be a huge upgrade.
I do think they could be one of the favorites for sure, but without a doubt THE favorite? There's too many good NFC teams to make that statement IMO. Hell, with Rodgers back I wouldn't call them a without a doubt favorite for the north, and I'm a Vikings fan.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
We will see if they can deal with prosperity. Sometimes that is more difficult to deal with than adversity. Right now I see Dallas and the Eagles in the East, N.O, Atlanta and to some extent Carolina in the South, the Packers and to a lesser extent the Lions in the North and the Rams in the west with the Seahawks descendant and the 49ers ascendant but two years away in the west. I see six legitimate challengers to the Vikes sans injury, and another two or three with pretenses, but who knows after the draft and free agency.
Interesting times for the Vikes. They have two out of the last three division titles and another one this year would have to be seen as a solid trend. .
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
Based on many of his posts about the Vikings, Football Jones seems to be under the impression that it's fairly easy to upgrade the QB position from year to year. I could not disagree more.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I agree with that 100%
The Vikings have been searching for a QB since Culpepper got injured and wasn't the same again. That was 2004 over a decade ago.
Sure the Vikings got lucky with Favre in 2009 who had one of his best seasons ever that year, then totally faded after that leaving the Vikings in somewhat of a rebuild situation, CBA was up in the air and delayed free agency. The Vikings ended up reaching on Christian Ponder our of desperation after going into a win now mode with Favre for 2 seasons. They wasted picks on Toby Gerhardt and others, thinking the team was more set than it actually was. It was a pretty deep hole they dug for themselves and just been climbing out of that since Zimmer was hired as the head coach plus some pretty high picks for a few years in there to build up parts of what they have now.
It isn't easy to find the right QB at all. The Vikings got really lucky with how well Keenum played last year.
I suppose you could say the rest of the team is good enough for the Vikings to win games without great QB play, but Keenum did play pretty well in several of the Vikings games last year. He played well enough that I wouldn't really expect him to play as well this season as the starter. There was some luck and some things fell the Vikings way on their way to 13 wins.
Also the team does have holes, the Vikings need upgrades to defensive tackle offensive tackle and guard besides needing likely two QBs, a starter and a back up, unless Sloter is actually going to be the back up QB this season. Beyond the offensive and defensive line needs, the Vikings likely need another LB if they are going to let Barr go after this season. While Terrence Newman has said he wants to be back, some do not trust Waynes and Alexander enough, I could see some more competition at corner.
From my perspective Cousins would be a QB upgrade from what they have had. I would have more confidence in the Vikings being able to win 10+ games in 2018 with Cousins than with any of the other options. How many wins is the difference between Cousins and Bradford or Keenum? I am not really sure. Winning 13 games is hard. I wouldn't expect the Vikings to win that many again with Keenum as the starting QB. With Cousins maybe they could.
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Football Jones
Footballguy
I’m not saying it’s easy. I realize it’s extremely difficult.
That said, they picked the right year to be looking for a QB upgrade with a very good FA class (& available QBs in general) & one of the best rookie QB classes in recent memory.
In short, the sheer number means less competition to acquire an upgrade. Put it this way, I’d be shocked if they DON’T acquire an upgrade at QB.
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Who do you folks think is the 2nd best free agent QB besides Cousins?
Would that QB actually be an upgrade over Case Keenum 2017?
Bearing in mind that Keenum did play very well statistically and in terms of team wins in 2017. A level that I do not really expect Keenum to repeat, so re-signing him in my view would be a downgrade from what may be a career year for Keenum.
Sam Bradford healthy? Could possibly be a slight upgrade over Keenum. Not a huge one. Some intangibles lost with Bradfords lack of mobility compared to Keenum or pre injury Bridgewater.
Teddy Bridgewater maybe could be an upgrade in the intangible sense? String together about 17 ifs and sure maybe this could be an upgrade.
Josh McCown? Not likely better than Keenum in 2017. McCown did have a decent year last year and a connection to DeFlippo IIRC as possible back up QB.
Who else?
Would that QB actually be an upgrade over Case Keenum 2017?
Bearing in mind that Keenum did play very well statistically and in terms of team wins in 2017. A level that I do not really expect Keenum to repeat, so re-signing him in my view would be a downgrade from what may be a career year for Keenum.
Sam Bradford healthy? Could possibly be a slight upgrade over Keenum. Not a huge one. Some intangibles lost with Bradfords lack of mobility compared to Keenum or pre injury Bridgewater.
Teddy Bridgewater maybe could be an upgrade in the intangible sense? String together about 17 ifs and sure maybe this could be an upgrade.
Josh McCown? Not likely better than Keenum in 2017. McCown did have a decent year last year and a connection to DeFlippo IIRC as possible back up QB.
Who else?
encaitar
Footballguy
Healthy yes. He played two full seasons twice in his career. Wouldn't bank on him personally.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I think Bradford is the second best free agent QB on the market (and we all know his warts), so after Cousins I do not see this free agent class as particularly compelling unless Eli and Bortles are released - and those two have their issues as well.
Football Jones
Footballguy
I’m not ruling out a trade or even a rookie. It doesn’t have to be Cousins for it to be an upgrade over Keenum.
I realize Keenum had a career year, but I view him as a low-end starter who is best utilized as a top-end backup. I don’t know what the Vikings will do, but I’m betting you get an upgrade.
I’d even view Bradford as an upgrade with the right backup (say McCown). Arm talent-wise, Bradford is a big upgrade over Keenum. I’m not saying that’s the answer, just one of the many possibilities.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
In 2017 Case Keenum 14.5 games 481 pass attempts (17th) 325 completions (12th) 67.6% completion rate (2nd) 3547 yards (12th) 22 TD (12th) 4.6% TD rate (12th) 7 interceptions (24th)1.5% interception rate (5th) 7.4 ypa (12th) 7.6 aypa (9th) 98.3 rate (7th) 71.3 QBR (2nd) 22 sacks (25th) 4.4% sack rate (6th)
You notice that Keenum ranks in the top 12 or better in most of these categories and 2nd a couple times, 5th 6th, 7th. of course some of these are bad to be ranked high like interceptions or sacks but good for interception or sack rate.
QBs overall did not have a very good year in 2017 but Keenum did. I would expect some of his efficiency stats to go down with another season, but maybe he keeps getting better? Who knows. This was pretty good. I just don't think it was sustainable, as ZImmer said Keenum had a lucky horseshoe or whatever. He could have been intercepted quite a few more times than he was.
Kirk Cousins
2017 16 games 540 pass attempts (8th) 347 completions (8th) 64.3% completion rate (9th) 4093 yards (7th) 27 TD (8th) 5% TD rate (8th) 13 interceptions (7th) 2.4% interception rate (16th) 7.6 ypa (9th) 7.5 aypa (11th) 93.9 rate (12th) 50.5 QBR (17th) 41 sacks (5th) 7.1% sack rate (20th)
2016 16 games 606 pass attempts (6th) 406 completions (3rd) 67% completion rate (8th) 4917 yards (3rd) 25 TD (13th) 4.1% TD rate (16th) 12 interceptions (15th) 2% interception rate (12th) 8.1 ypa (3rd) 8.0 aypa (5th) 97.2 rate (7th) 71.7 QBR (6th) 23 sacks (24th) 3.7% sack rate (5th)
2015 16 games 543 pass attempts (12th) 379 completions (7th) 69.8% completion rate (1st) 4166 yards (10th) 29 TD (13th) 5.3% TD rate (12th) 11 interceptions (15th) 2% interception rate (10th) 7.7 ypa (8th) 7.8 aypa (9th) 101.6 rate (5th) 71 QBR (6th) 26 sacks (21st) 4.6% sack rate (9th)
So not only a longer track record of performing at a high level (top 10) but more upside than Keenums season last year which still was very good but not likely something he can keep up in my opinion. The main thing that stands out is only 1.5% interception rate for Keenum last year which is better than Cousins who has on average throws an interception 2.1% of the time, which isn't bad.
I think it is pretty obvious a confluence of bad things happened for the Washinton offense last season. Jordan Reed wasn't healthy much, one of Cousins favorite targets, they lost starting WR and tried to replace them with essentially a rookie in Doctson and Pryor who got benched for him as the season wore on. Cousins didn't have as reliable receivers to work with in 2017 as the previous two seasons. Also the Redskins offensive line had a lot of injuries making it more difficult. You can see from the sack totals that nearly doubled in 2017 compared to the previous two seasons of 23 and 26 which for the number of attempts is right there with what Keenum did last season. Cousins can move and buy time. You also had the coaching change of McVey going to the Rams replaced by Mark Cavanaugh.
You notice that Keenum ranks in the top 12 or better in most of these categories and 2nd a couple times, 5th 6th, 7th. of course some of these are bad to be ranked high like interceptions or sacks but good for interception or sack rate.
QBs overall did not have a very good year in 2017 but Keenum did. I would expect some of his efficiency stats to go down with another season, but maybe he keeps getting better? Who knows. This was pretty good. I just don't think it was sustainable, as ZImmer said Keenum had a lucky horseshoe or whatever. He could have been intercepted quite a few more times than he was.
Kirk Cousins
2017 16 games 540 pass attempts (8th) 347 completions (8th) 64.3% completion rate (9th) 4093 yards (7th) 27 TD (8th) 5% TD rate (8th) 13 interceptions (7th) 2.4% interception rate (16th) 7.6 ypa (9th) 7.5 aypa (11th) 93.9 rate (12th) 50.5 QBR (17th) 41 sacks (5th) 7.1% sack rate (20th)
2016 16 games 606 pass attempts (6th) 406 completions (3rd) 67% completion rate (8th) 4917 yards (3rd) 25 TD (13th) 4.1% TD rate (16th) 12 interceptions (15th) 2% interception rate (12th) 8.1 ypa (3rd) 8.0 aypa (5th) 97.2 rate (7th) 71.7 QBR (6th) 23 sacks (24th) 3.7% sack rate (5th)
2015 16 games 543 pass attempts (12th) 379 completions (7th) 69.8% completion rate (1st) 4166 yards (10th) 29 TD (13th) 5.3% TD rate (12th) 11 interceptions (15th) 2% interception rate (10th) 7.7 ypa (8th) 7.8 aypa (9th) 101.6 rate (5th) 71 QBR (6th) 26 sacks (21st) 4.6% sack rate (9th)
So not only a longer track record of performing at a high level (top 10) but more upside than Keenums season last year which still was very good but not likely something he can keep up in my opinion. The main thing that stands out is only 1.5% interception rate for Keenum last year which is better than Cousins who has on average throws an interception 2.1% of the time, which isn't bad.
I think it is pretty obvious a confluence of bad things happened for the Washinton offense last season. Jordan Reed wasn't healthy much, one of Cousins favorite targets, they lost starting WR and tried to replace them with essentially a rookie in Doctson and Pryor who got benched for him as the season wore on. Cousins didn't have as reliable receivers to work with in 2017 as the previous two seasons. Also the Redskins offensive line had a lot of injuries making it more difficult. You can see from the sack totals that nearly doubled in 2017 compared to the previous two seasons of 23 and 26 which for the number of attempts is right there with what Keenum did last season. Cousins can move and buy time. You also had the coaching change of McVey going to the Rams replaced by Mark Cavanaugh.
dhockster
Footballguy
Bradford could be an upgrade over Keenum, IF HE COULD STAY HEALTHY. I don't think he can, and I don't see the Vikings signing him because of this. I don't see any rookies that would be an upgrade over Keenum in 2018, especially where the Vikings are drafting. Prescott was the right player to fall into an ideal situation. the chances of that happening with the Vikings are very slim.
Football Jones
Footballguy
They’d need a backup like McCown if they signed Bradford, but there are a lot of realistic options better than Keenum. The Vikings would probably still be my favorites if they signed Keenum with Cook coming back (he’s going to make a huge difference to their offense), but an upgrade at QB would make them the clear favorites.dhockster said:
With an upgrade at QB, they’d have the most offensive & defensive starting 22 talent in the league. Solid coaching & a plus organization is icing on the cake. That said, there are several teams who can pass them with the right moves.
It’s a constant battle to stay on top.
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dhockster
Footballguy
Herb
Footballguy
Assuming health is not an issue (huge assumption) Bradford and Bridgewater are probably both better. For a single year, I could argue McCown over Keenum. There are also guys that could potentially become available, like Brees, Eli or Tannehill. I'm obviously very skeptical that Keenum can continue playing like he did last year, although the addition of DiFillippo makes me more optimistic.
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Herb
Footballguy
Having an excellent team with no idea who your QB is going to be is such a typical Vikings conundrum. Here's what I'd like to see:
1. Sign Cousins, but only in the unlikely scenario where he would take a little less money to play on a team that's ready to contend immediately. Giving him $150 mil over 5 years seems like too much. Maybe $100 mil for 4?
2. If that doesn't happen, sign Keenum for 2-3 yrs in a very front loaded contract that allows the team to walk away cheaply after a year, then sign Bridgewater with some very large performance/ playing time incentives. I'd prefer Bradford over Keenum, but he just can't be trusted to stay upright.
3. Take Lamar Jackson if he happens to fall, regardless of whatever else happens.
1. Sign Cousins, but only in the unlikely scenario where he would take a little less money to play on a team that's ready to contend immediately. Giving him $150 mil over 5 years seems like too much. Maybe $100 mil for 4?
2. If that doesn't happen, sign Keenum for 2-3 yrs in a very front loaded contract that allows the team to walk away cheaply after a year, then sign Bridgewater with some very large performance/ playing time incentives. I'd prefer Bradford over Keenum, but he just can't be trusted to stay upright.
3. Take Lamar Jackson if he happens to fall, regardless of whatever else happens.
BigJim®
Footballguy
I'm with you on all but #3. The non-Cousins options just seem like pure "man I hope this guy has 2 legs by midseason" gambles. Could work out great, but could also blow up miserably.My current pipe dream is that Cousins decides he made enough money over the past 2 seasons, truly wants to join a contender with a good OC before he turns 30, and accepts a long-term contract which does not hamstring the team he hopes to remain a contender. Probably need to stop listening to KFAN if I want to continue toting the Cousins banner... listening to PA/Bercich yesterday was a wet towel on that possibility. PA was saying we should try to sign both Bridgewater/Bradford for a combined $23-$25 million, because signing Cousins will leave the Vikings out of other FA contention. I really don't get that... how paying $25MM for 2 QBs frees the Vikes for aggressive FA but paying for Cousins leaves us with crickets (his soundbyte). Maybe they are assuming the Vikes need to pay $40MM/per, but I think that is unlikely to be necessary if Cousins truly limits his pool to contending teams.
ETA: Both PA/Bercich suggested the only way we keep Keenum is to franchise tag. Unless I misunderstand what that means financially (paying average of top X at that position) I do not see how that is even in consideration vs. doing a long-term deal with Cousins.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
I like Jackson too. It seems like the buzz about him isn't very strong from mocks and stuff so far. I would be happy if the Vikings could draft him.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I like Berchich but PA isn't the brightest bulb on the tree.
I agree with what you are saying the difference between signing Cousins and signing Keenum (especially with a franchise tag) and Bridgewater for less money combined while possible also seems unlikely to me. You are talking about a difference of maybe $8 million for Cousins compared to Bradford or Keenum. It could be less than that. I don't see how that $8 million difference means the Vikings wont be able to sign other quality free agents.
Even at $30 million a year for Cosins (possible price) the Vikings still have $30 million in cap space left.
Who are these free agents that the Vikings need to sign more than the best free agent QB?
I have been hearing some talk about the Panthers guard being good, but they likely keep him. If they don't another team may pay him more than the Vikings want to anyways.
There are some free agent nose tackle types available in free agency that the Vikings do not need with Linval Joseph under contract.
There really are not any impact free agents for the Vikings to target at other positions of need besides QB. Yes the Vikings need offensive and defensive line. These are players that teams usually do not allow to become free agents, and if they do those players are very expensive to sign because so many other teams are interested in them.
The only consideration in regards to spending 17% of the salary cap on Cousins would be re-signing soon to be Vikings free agents Kendricks, Diggs, Hunter, Waynes as has already been talked about. The Vikings with $30 cap space remaining might use the rest of that money on extending these players contracts instead of making any other big signings in free agency.
I can't even remember the Panthers guards name right now. Maybe he is pretty good, but I don't see how he is good enough that the Vikings should go cheap(er) with Keenum or Bradford in order to try to sign him. The defensive tackles do not fit what the Vikings need and I wouldn't be surprised if they bring back Tom Johnson on a more reasonable contract instead, then add a lower level free agent defensive tackle who Zimmer thins can contribute. The big money defensive tackles are not players the Vikings need right now because they are not under tackles.
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skol asylum
Footballguy
Is Aaron Rodgers ready for his swan song defection to the Vikings yet?
