I said Thielen would play the slot. Which is where I feel he's best at anyway, and he's got tons of experience there. I don't see how that would be playing him out of position.
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Minnesota Vikings Team Thread (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Heatman
- Start date
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Sorry, I missed that. Skimmed too fast, I guess!
I guess I could see it. But, to me, Metcalf seems more physical specimen than WR.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
There is no way in hell Paris Campbell is a better player than Metcalf. Dont be silly.
The only reason your talking about Campbell is because Metcalf shouldn't be there at pick 50.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I not really implying he is.
I'm saying for what the Vikings need, they're better off getting Campbell at his likely spot than Metcalf at his.
I'll just say it more simply - I don't think DKM is the right guy to add to Diggs/Thielen.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
I am all about adding more players to the offensive and defensive lines because there are still too many good players left there.
WR can be addressed in the 3rd or later rounds. If somehow Metcalf were there at pick 50 they should consider it though.
I am wondering what the Vikings would need to do to get Cody Ford. Would love if they traded up for him.
beef
Footballguy
Rotoworld just posted a mock of round 2 and it had Ford going to the Vikes so your prayers have been answered. https://www.rotoworld.com/article/mock-draft/silvas-second-round-mock-draft
BigJim®
Footballguy
Well, the conversation seems moot since he won't be there. However, what exactly is it about DK that makes you view him as nothing more than an underwear model? His production did not jump off the screen, but from what I saw he was making circus catches when given the chance.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
That would be great. I doubt Little would go before Ford like this mock, but Risner could still be there as well.Gally said:
Lots of corners and WR could cause them to fall I suppose.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
If Brown and Metcalf were there I would hope they take Brown if they are going to take a WR. Butler would be a good get as well at 50.beef said:
I would still prefer Risner or Ford over these WR.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Well so much for that. Little Ford and Risner now gone.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
He is a bit short for the TE position but a good blocker despite that and some good hands and route running ability too.
I had my heart set on another offensive lineman, but the TE are an important part of protection and run blocking as well. Smith is likely a better blocker than Rudolph is, thats not that hard. Smith will likely play some H back that Kubiak likes as well. The pick kind of hurts CJ Hams opportunity on offense.
Overall I am warming up to the pick. Cousins really likes a TE and Smith could be a Jordan Reed type option for him. They are similar size and Smith tested faster than Reed did, he also was more productive in the 2018 season than Reed was, is a better blocker than Reed is and doesn't have the medical history that Reed had.
There is a lot of things to like about the pick. I think the good offensive linemen were gone by that pick, as expected.
whole-show
Footballguy
I just don’t get Spielman. Why does he think quantity is better than quality?!
Johnny Rock
Footballguy
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Seems like Bad Rick is showing up on cue.
whole-show
Footballguy
Yeah ridiculous. Like we need that many 6th and 7th round picks. We don’t even have the cap space to sign that many players. I get that maybe you can find a gem in the rough but come on.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Vikings killing the draft
whole-show
Footballguy
I respect your opinions a lot Dan. So do you seriously think they are doing good by moving back like that? I just saw players they could have used before trading down that are now gone. I get how teams like the Pats always find gems late but haven’t really seen that from the Vikes and would rather see them take one of the players they could have instead of moving back like that and getting picks that usually don’t pan out. Not sure if your serious or not so it’s why I’m asking. I do like their picks so far a lot but hated to see them start jumping back like that where they were sitting with that pick.
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Interseptopus
Footballguy
I think they addressed some awesome spots. C was a huge need. TE was a great pick. RB was another good pick.although I admit I dont know a lot about the player aside from a mid round talent (I didnt pay much attention to RBs outside of my top 5).
The NFC North just got a lot better, a side from Detroit... who knows what they are doing.
The only thing I can think MIN is doing by trading back is channeling their inner Ted Thompson. It feels good to see another team have to go through that lol
I do think MIN is having a good draft. The major pieces are there in general, just need the small pieces. QB is an issue but if Cousins has another bland year then 2020 is a qb year for MIN
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
I was just listening to Spielman talking about the Irv Smith and Alexander Mattison picks, as well as the trades down.
In regards to Smith he mentions he will play some H back and FB and that this is important to Kubiaks offense and what they want to do blocking for the run game. He says that most of their personnel groups last year were 3 WR sets, and that they want to be more multiple this year. Irv Smith allows them to do that.
As far as Mattison they say they were looking for a RB with the same traits as Latavius Murray and that Mattison has those traits. He can catch the ball, he can block and he is a very decisive runner who can handle a lot of carries.
Mattison was not at all on my radar. I will take his word for it. A RB like Latavius Murray is not something I actively look for.
As far as the trades back. Spielman says having those extra picks allows them flexibility for the rest of the draft to either move up if they see a tier of players being depleted or continue to move down if they are not. He describes this as a scenario where they may be 5 players at a position that they value about evenly. In that case they can feel comfortable moving down and still getting one of those 5 players. From what he said the players they were looking at with pick 81 were not all that different than what they would be looking at later on, so they took the trades.
The Vikings are in a tight salary cap situation. Also possible they are looking to save money by not having as high of a 3rd round pick for all we know.
In regards to Smith he mentions he will play some H back and FB and that this is important to Kubiaks offense and what they want to do blocking for the run game. He says that most of their personnel groups last year were 3 WR sets, and that they want to be more multiple this year. Irv Smith allows them to do that.
As far as Mattison they say they were looking for a RB with the same traits as Latavius Murray and that Mattison has those traits. He can catch the ball, he can block and he is a very decisive runner who can handle a lot of carries.
Mattison was not at all on my radar. I will take his word for it. A RB like Latavius Murray is not something I actively look for.
As far as the trades back. Spielman says having those extra picks allows them flexibility for the rest of the draft to either move up if they see a tier of players being depleted or continue to move down if they are not. He describes this as a scenario where they may be 5 players at a position that they value about evenly. In that case they can feel comfortable moving down and still getting one of those 5 players. From what he said the players they were looking at with pick 81 were not all that different than what they would be looking at later on, so they took the trades.
The Vikings are in a tight salary cap situation. Also possible they are looking to save money by not having as high of a 3rd round pick for all we know.
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whole-show
Footballguy
Thanks for the input and agree with you on most of it other than you liking to see another team go through it
whole-show
Footballguy
Thanks Biabreakable for the input. A lot of it makes sense what you stated. Just don’t know if I get Spielman’s reason for moving back but what you stated as to why with the salary cap issue and paying a high 3rd makes a lot of sense.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I think he just wanted more picks and the top tiers of players were gone by then.
He does say they were not willing to move down with Smith on the board.
In my view the top players were mostly gone at that point. They had already missed the RB run. Which he said was their priority after the Smith pick.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I was actually surprised with how frank Spielman was being about some things.
For example when asked about the 30 official visits, that they use those sometimes on players they expect to go undrafted, but who they anticipate will be priority free agents. The 30 visit is a way for them to help that deal along. He says that if a player checks all the boxes, they do not meet with those players any more. Some times the visits are used as smoke screens.
I almost wonder if he had been drinking, he wasn't using Rick speak to say nothing like usual.
For example when asked about the 30 official visits, that they use those sometimes on players they expect to go undrafted, but who they anticipate will be priority free agents. The 30 visit is a way for them to help that deal along. He says that if a player checks all the boxes, they do not meet with those players any more. Some times the visits are used as smoke screens.
I almost wonder if he had been drinking, he wasn't using Rick speak to say nothing like usual.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
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Footballguy
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Footballguy
So do you think they would have picked if Paris, Metcalf or Isabella would have fallen to us? I was really hoping one would fall to us, but maybe they wouldn’t have anyways
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Oh another thing is Spielman says Jaylyn Holmes is up to 300 lbs now and they are optimistic about him and Ifedi competing for the final roster.
I was looking at this from sportrac and only the top 51 salaries count towards the cap. Well for base salary the players at 51 and later are making 570k or less, and only a few of those will count towards the cap.
The estimated contract for Mattison is 685k so still above this threshold of 570k
If the Vikings picked at 81 the projected salary for the Lions pick is 730k so perhaps harder to get under the top 51 salaries.
There are players who the Vikings are paying more than the projected salary of Mattison however, who could be cut with very little impact to the team like Dakota Dozier for example.
The easiest way to get out of cap hell would be to just cut or trade Rudolph. But Rudolph is welcoming Bradbury to the team, face of franchise ect. so that seems awkward.
I was looking at this from sportrac and only the top 51 salaries count towards the cap. Well for base salary the players at 51 and later are making 570k or less, and only a few of those will count towards the cap.
The estimated contract for Mattison is 685k so still above this threshold of 570k
If the Vikings picked at 81 the projected salary for the Lions pick is 730k so perhaps harder to get under the top 51 salaries.
There are players who the Vikings are paying more than the projected salary of Mattison however, who could be cut with very little impact to the team like Dakota Dozier for example.
The easiest way to get out of cap hell would be to just cut or trade Rudolph. But Rudolph is welcoming Bradbury to the team, face of franchise ect. so that seems awkward.
whole-show
Footballguy
So @Biabreakable who do you think they take next or who do you want them to take? Me personally I think we need a 3rd wr and would like to see them take Ridley and then after that more oline help.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I really like Charles Omeniho DE from Texas a lot as an end 3 technique prospect. He played more DT than end for the Longhorns and I like his leverage and hands.
Maybe Spielman is full of it, but he seemed to be suggesting he expects Jaylyn Holmes to be able to contribute there this season, so perhaps they don't see it as the same priority as I do. I think he would be a great player to add. When doing mock drafts myself I would often take him in the 2nd round if all of the offensive linemen were gone, which a lot of the time they were.
I'm actually surprised he is still there.
I would be pretty excited about Hakeem Butler if they took him. Another player I am surprised is still there.
Amari Hooker the safety from Iowa has good ball skills.
Dru Samia the guard from Oklahoma.
Spielman said they had 234 players with draftable grades. So that is another reason why he wanted more picks. Plus offers were just coming to him. I don't think he got a whole lot moving down really, but he did get extra picks.
CanadianNFLJunkie
Footballguy
I didn't mind trading down once, maybe 2x, but...……. but I feel we will probably still have like 9 or 10 or 11?? draft picks. I don't see that many of these guys making the final roster though.
I like the flexibility of moving up and taking a player they like this late in the draft.... I guess it's safe to say we will draft another place-kicker...
I'd love to see us draft Stidham from Auburn but he'll probably go soon today
I like the flexibility of moving up and taking a player they like this late in the draft.... I guess it's safe to say we will draft another place-kicker...
I'd love to see us draft Stidham from Auburn but he'll probably go soon today
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I just don't get drafting backup running backs when there's starter talent available where you need a starter.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
3 hour lunch
Footballguy
Know nothing about Samia but can never have enough linemen. Skol!
beef
Footballguy
Johnny Rock
Footballguy
This is what I heard too. Allows them to go around the cap.
I hope Spielman is able to turn a few of these into 2020 picks.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Very happy they took Samia. So they got a center and a guard who I think can start. I would have liked them to get a tackle out of this draft as well. Oh well.
Charles Omenihu went to the Texans one pick ahead of the Vikings in round 5. Honestly I am not sure why he fell so far? I think he is going to be a good player in the NFL.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Agreed.
The RB I liked were mostly gone before pick 81 however.
I just don't understand why you would actively seek out a player like Latavius Murray. Especially one who is slower than Murray.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
He isn't a RB that I think you can build the offense around. More of a role player.I don’t understand why you dislike Murray so much. He played well when needed and provided a bigger back element
What Spielman likely means is that they wanted a power RB to compliment Dalvin Cook, which I think is fine. I just don't know much about Mattison (which also worries me).
When I hear Speilman say a Murray type I think of a guy who is too tall, does not have good footwork or change of direction ability but good speed.
Spielman likely doesn't mean that when he says Murray type.
I know ZImmer loved Murray, and that Murray had good YPC on his first 5 carries of the game, which is something I think they want to have at the start of games.
Murray lost the short yardage job to Dalvin Cook last year, but I think that was mostly due to poor blocking. They needed Dalvins vision and change of direction to have a better chance of executing those plays with defenders in the backfield. Maybe they can block better.
I am going to watch Mattison today and have an open mind about it. I don't know much about him. Maybe he doesn't have some of the flaws Murray has which have always bothered me. He is shorter for one, so easier to run with the pad level needed to convert those short yardage runs more easily.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I just watched a condensed version of the Boise State vs Fresno bowl game.
There was snow in this game which thankfully covered up their ugly blue field that camouflages their players.
Mattison had 30 carries in this game but most of those were cut out of the condensed version of the game unfortunately, to watch the whole game is 2.5 hours.
He has some good runs inside where he hits the gap with good speed. He has some decent footwork to change gaps and follow his blocking. He runs into the back of his blocker on one play but is able to get to the outside and score after doing so. He almost drop kicks a defender with a hurdle. He gets his bell rung at one point but he is able to finish the game. He has some of his better runs after this happens.
I do think Gary Kubiak is having a lot of influence on their picks in this draft, so if he thinks Mattison is worth that pick I am not going to argue.
There was snow in this game which thankfully covered up their ugly blue field that camouflages their players.
Mattison had 30 carries in this game but most of those were cut out of the condensed version of the game unfortunately, to watch the whole game is 2.5 hours.
He has some good runs inside where he hits the gap with good speed. He has some decent footwork to change gaps and follow his blocking. He runs into the back of his blocker on one play but is able to get to the outside and score after doing so. He almost drop kicks a defender with a hurdle. He gets his bell rung at one point but he is able to finish the game. He has some of his better runs after this happens.
I do think Gary Kubiak is having a lot of influence on their picks in this draft, so if he thinks Mattison is worth that pick I am not going to argue.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I found some other clips of Mattison to watch. While I tried to be a blank slate, Spielmans comparison to Murray still stood out in my mind. I have decided I do not like the comparison.
I see better footwork and cutting ability from Mattison than I do from Murray. He also runs with better pad level than Murray does. So two of the things I do not like about Murray do not seem like weaknesses in Mattison.
Then I came across this from Matt Waldman talking about one of Mattisons plays. Waldman emphasizes some traits that Mattison demonstrates in the play that are unlike Latavius Murray in my opinion.
I just disagree with Spielmans comparison.
I see better footwork and cutting ability from Mattison than I do from Murray. He also runs with better pad level than Murray does. So two of the things I do not like about Murray do not seem like weaknesses in Mattison.
Then I came across this from Matt Waldman talking about one of Mattisons plays. Waldman emphasizes some traits that Mattison demonstrates in the play that are unlike Latavius Murray in my opinion.
I just disagree with Spielmans comparison.
CanadianNFLJunkie
Footballguy
Thoughts on the draft, in particular the late rounds, love Watts the big DT who can rush the passer inside and Boyd, who was great value later on. I just wonder about the log-jam of CBs we have now. The old saying is you can't have enough CB's. Seems we are setting ourselves up to move away from Rhodes or Waynes next off-season, if not sooner. I re-watched the NFL combine and didn't much out of the 2 WR's we took.
Sad to see we didn't upgrade the 3rd WR position as well as upgrade at the Safety position. I guess/hope we'll be looking for players cut to fulfil those roles.
I heard some names of the undrafted street free agents we signed, any good words on any of them?
Sad to see we didn't upgrade the 3rd WR position as well as upgrade at the Safety position. I guess/hope we'll be looking for players cut to fulfil those roles.
I heard some names of the undrafted street free agents we signed, any good words on any of them?
Biabreakable
Footballguy
The Vikings are going to play less 3 WR sets anyways. Irv Smith is going to be that guy I think.
I think they will be fine at WR and someone besides Tredwell will step up. It will be a pretty small role in the overall offense anyways imo.
I think they will be fine at WR and someone besides Tredwell will step up. It will be a pretty small role in the overall offense anyways imo.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Vikings will need to clear salary cap space to sign rookies
I think the Vikings need to do something to be able to afford Bradburys contract.
I think the Vikings need to do something to be able to afford Bradburys contract.
