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Minnesota Vikings Team Thread (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Heatman
- Start date
mr roboto
Footballguy
That’s the thing though he’s good enough to get us 14 points in the first quarter he’s done that a couple times. Zimmer was the wrong coach I don’t think cousins necessarily the wrong QB.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Random interesting stat:
Every year the Vikings play the Ravens its the most important game of the season. Since 1998, if the Vikings beat the Ravens they make the NFC Title game(Falcons in 98', Saints in 09' and Eagles in 2017') if the Vikings lose to the Ravens, they fire their HC(Green, Tice, Frazier, Zimmer)
Every year the Vikings play the Ravens its the most important game of the season. Since 1998, if the Vikings beat the Ravens they make the NFC Title game(Falcons in 98', Saints in 09' and Eagles in 2017') if the Vikings lose to the Ravens, they fire their HC(Green, Tice, Frazier, Zimmer)
So based on this trend, January 2026 the Vikings should lose the NFC title game again.
mr roboto
Footballguy
Yeah I agree. It is so hard to separate him from the system in a lot of peoples minds.
skol asylum
Footballguy
@AdamSchefter: Vikings requested permission to interview Buccaneers’ Vice President of Player Personnel John Spytek for their GM job, per source.
skol asylum
Footballguy
No GM yet but looks like they are also lining up lots of HC interviews.
skol asylum
Footballguy
Minnesota Vikings Head Coach Search
On Saturday, some of the names for the Vikings’ head coaching job started to emerge, courtesy of Tom Pelissero of the NFL Network. Those coaches are as follows:
Tampa Bay Buccaneers defensive coordinator Todd Bowles
Philadelphia Eagles defensive coordinator Jonathan Gannon
Green Bay Packers offensive coordinator Nathaniel Hackett
Dallas Cowboys offensive coordinator Kellen Moore
Los Angeles Rams offensive coordinator Kevin O’Connell
Dallas Cowboys defensive coordinator Dan Quinn
San Francisco 49ers defensive coordinator DeMeco Ryans
Minnesota Vikings Head Coach Search Rumors
The first name to get an interview for the Vikings will apparently be Doug Pederson, former Eagles’ head coach and Chiefs’ offensive coordinator.
There is also apparently some interest in Ole Miss head coach Lane Kiffin. . .yeah, that Lane Kiffin.
That’s all we have for now, unfortunately. Once more names and news begin to flow down, we’ll have them right here for you.
https://www.dailynorseman.com/2022/1/11/22879072/minnesota-vikings-head-coach-general-manager-search-tracker
On Saturday, some of the names for the Vikings’ head coaching job started to emerge, courtesy of Tom Pelissero of the NFL Network. Those coaches are as follows:
Tampa Bay Buccaneers defensive coordinator Todd Bowles
Philadelphia Eagles defensive coordinator Jonathan Gannon
Green Bay Packers offensive coordinator Nathaniel Hackett
Dallas Cowboys offensive coordinator Kellen Moore
Los Angeles Rams offensive coordinator Kevin O’Connell
Dallas Cowboys defensive coordinator Dan Quinn
San Francisco 49ers defensive coordinator DeMeco Ryans
Minnesota Vikings Head Coach Search Rumors
The first name to get an interview for the Vikings will apparently be Doug Pederson, former Eagles’ head coach and Chiefs’ offensive coordinator.
There is also apparently some interest in Ole Miss head coach Lane Kiffin. . .yeah, that Lane Kiffin.
That’s all we have for now, unfortunately. Once more names and news begin to flow down, we’ll have them right here for you.
https://www.dailynorseman.com/2022/1/11/22879072/minnesota-vikings-head-coach-general-manager-search-tracker
skol asylum
Footballguy
Maybe they already had preliminary talks and upcoming interviews are a formality. Maybe they asked each GM who they would be interested in hiring ahead of their interviews and are lining things up after.
skol asylum
Footballguy
I loved the agressiveness Brian Daboll's Bills had tonight. But then again can we find a Josh Allen to go with him?
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
Eagles fan here. Here’s what I wrote about Pedersen in the Dolphins thread.
“From an Eagles fan perspective -- Pederson was a very good leader, but his offenses were pretty much awful after Reich and DeFillipo left after the SB win. His offensive staff hires after that were laughable and he played a big role in the bungling of the Wentz/Hurts situation.
He's certainly the kind of coach you turn to if your goal is to get someone with the opposite persona of Flores, but I'd grill him heavily on what he would do to avoid repeating the mistakes of 2018-20.”
In addition to that, it’s been reported that the team drafted Reagor over Jefferson because that’s who Pedersen wanted.
Another reason Jeffrey Lurie fired Pedersen is that he refused to make changes to his coaching staff after 2020 despite them being desperately needed.
His playcalling became a source of frustration for fans by the end of his tenure. He had morphed from someone who was smartly aggressive in contrast to most NFL coaches at the time into someone who was often needlessly aggressive.
He could be a good hire if he learns from his mistakes and has a Reich type to design the offense. But there were many more reasons beyond injuries why he was fired.
FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
From what I have read, they have just requested permission with the teams on each which they would have to do anyway. I don't think they have set up any interviews at all. I'm assuming the GM gets hired this week, then they can interview whoever they want but at least have taken the first step that would need to be done at some point anyway. Doesn't mean they have to interview everyone they have asked permission...
BigJim®
Footballguy
The Reagor/Jefferson point is eyebrow raising. As for the rest of your assessment... what role do you give the Eagle's OL in offensive demise? As mentioned, the team gave up 65 sacks in 2020. Isn't it sort of impossible for any offensive scheme to work under that circumstance?
BigJim®
Footballguy
You are predicting a GM hire from a non playoff team or one of the 4 wild card losers?
JetMaxx
Footballguy
Very fair point about the OL. One other thing I’ll interject about Pederson that @Pip's Invitation didn’t mention but there were heavy rumors about over intrusion by Roseman and Lurie into his HC responsibilities including deciding who was active on game day. If true Pederson probably had 1 foot out the door
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
The OL was decimated by injuries in 2020. That plus Wentz trying to play hero ball all the time were the main reasons why the team was so bad.
BigJim®
Footballguy
I hear you, thanks for the input. It's maybe just me, but sort of hard to say a QB played hero ball, knowing his OL gave up 65 sacks. My reaction is of course, he had to. Just like Cousins checked down too often. Offense is all cause/effect stuff, and it almost always ties back to the OL. JMHO.
BigJim®
Footballguy
If there's a team who knows how to build the right way, and finding tough players with a fighting mentality, it's Tennessee.
FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
The GM hire isn't going to be an active GM and not sure there is much anyone can do building a roster between now and the Super Bowl...Can they not hire a GM from a team currently playing?
BigJim®
Footballguy
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I never thought Josh Allen would develop into the QB he is now and I think Daboll deserves some credit for Allens improvement.
I would be pretty happy if Daboll was their choice.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Of course the offensive line was a factor in this.
However the QB can contribute to the team giving up sacks. I don't think Wentz is a good anticipation thrower for one and the comments about hero ball I think related to him trying to scramble and holding the ball too long.
You can contrast the way Wentz played with how Foles played, and while Foles isn't that great a QB either, I bet he got the ball out quicker than Wentz did.
They didn't have very good WR at that time either which is a contributing factor in how the QB plays as well, and the coaches should be making adjustments/coaching Wentz to not hold the ball so long.
BigJim®
Footballguy
With a new GM/head coach TBD, too early to tell anything other than there's not many alternatives to riding out his 2022 contract. Depending on how the new regime views Cousins, there's a possibility they extend him in a way that reduces his cap hit for 2022.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Its my understanding that the Vikings are on the hook for $35 million in 2022 even if they trade him.
They could save the $10 million signing bonus they owe him if they did trade him which is something, but they will still have to pay him a ton.
It may not be easy to find a team willing to take on Cousins salary anyways, so they are most likely stuck with him for 2022.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Deion Sanders says Mike Zimmer and Rick Spielman hadn't spoken 'in months'
I am guessing you all have heard about this drama.
If communication and cooperation had broken down to this level it does explain a lot of things such as Brian O'Neil, Eric Kendricks and the owners comments about collaboration and teamwork.
It also kind of explains why the team didn't perform well in critical situations like the end of the half and that Zimmer may have lost the trust of the players to execute his scheme. Having his son be co defensive coordinator instead of just having Patterson have that title may be part of the players issues with Zimmer and buying into the defense as well.
As an outside observer I would guess the main divide between Zimmer and Spielman had to do with personnel decisions and Zimmer needed to do better with the defensive players he had to work with than he did.
I am guessing you all have heard about this drama.
If communication and cooperation had broken down to this level it does explain a lot of things such as Brian O'Neil, Eric Kendricks and the owners comments about collaboration and teamwork.
It also kind of explains why the team didn't perform well in critical situations like the end of the half and that Zimmer may have lost the trust of the players to execute his scheme. Having his son be co defensive coordinator instead of just having Patterson have that title may be part of the players issues with Zimmer and buying into the defense as well.
As an outside observer I would guess the main divide between Zimmer and Spielman had to do with personnel decisions and Zimmer needed to do better with the defensive players he had to work with than he did.
BigJim®
Footballguy
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
I agree that Spielman being surprised he was fired is hard for me to believe.
I tend to think what Sanders said about him and Zimmer not talking the last 2 months was accurate. It kind of makes sense considering that Spielman was doing chats with Paul Allen near the end which is something Zimmer would normally do.
That is something Zimmer was never good at, talking to the press. He hated it but that is part of a head coaches job.
Maybe Spielman thought he was doing things that would help him be retained. There was some talk about that possibility just a week or so before the last game.
That is something good that comes from these changes is now we are hearing things about the dysfunction of the leadership that otherwise would not really come to light. Such as Spielman recently owning up to some of his mistakes on the move the sticks podcast.
Rick Spielman: 'It was constantly like a moving target all the time'
BigJim®
Footballguy
I mean, this information and Spielman quote on the problem we've discussed ad nauseam is so frustrating. It sounds like the one thing they agreed upon 16 years into this mess. Spielman understood , but was utterly unable to solve it.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
Well there is definitely a disconnect where Zimmer is insisting that the interior offensive linemen be bigger but then when they do acquire a bigger guard such as Davis he doesn't fit the scheme that the offensive coaches are running.
Zimmer is correct that the team needs guards who can hold up in pass protection which personnel such as Bradbury, Udoh, Dozier, Samia were not able to do good enough. However those were the players who won jobs in the offense as being better fits for the scheme than their other available options.
Ezra Cleveland does seem to be a success although he hasn't always been perfect, I think he has improved. Prior to that Joe Berger is the last one who seemed to play well for the most part before he got too old.
Part of the problem is the high amount of turnover at the OC position causing changes in what they wanted their players to do and that turnover was partly because of Zimmer not being able to agree with the OC goals in regards to Norv Turner and DeFlippo or when they were more successful those OC being hired to head coaching positions with other teams in regards to Shurmur and Stefanski.
So this seems to be why the Vikings should prioritize an offensive minded head coach, so there can be more continuity with those goals for longer term development. Although I would say the problem with the team overall has been more on the defensive side of the ball. That would at least help the GM and scouting department to be more on the same page with the offensive coaches, which is important for QB development as well.
They do have some pieces with a 4 year window in place right now in ONeil, Cleveland and hopefully Darrisaw. Its possible that Davis could end up improving and contribute as well. That remains to be seen. Whoever the new coach is will have the responsibility of filling those 2 remaining spots and keeping the 3 successful ones playing well, as well as depth behind them. Hopefully whoever the Wilfs end up hiring will be able to do that and have better synergy with the GM and OCs than what Zimmer has.
The defense is still the bigger problem right now in my view but as fewer teams seem to be seeking defensive minded head coaches, maybe it will be easier to retain those than ones from the offensive side of the ball.
Zimmer is correct that the team needs guards who can hold up in pass protection which personnel such as Bradbury, Udoh, Dozier, Samia were not able to do good enough. However those were the players who won jobs in the offense as being better fits for the scheme than their other available options.
Ezra Cleveland does seem to be a success although he hasn't always been perfect, I think he has improved. Prior to that Joe Berger is the last one who seemed to play well for the most part before he got too old.
Part of the problem is the high amount of turnover at the OC position causing changes in what they wanted their players to do and that turnover was partly because of Zimmer not being able to agree with the OC goals in regards to Norv Turner and DeFlippo or when they were more successful those OC being hired to head coaching positions with other teams in regards to Shurmur and Stefanski.
So this seems to be why the Vikings should prioritize an offensive minded head coach, so there can be more continuity with those goals for longer term development. Although I would say the problem with the team overall has been more on the defensive side of the ball. That would at least help the GM and scouting department to be more on the same page with the offensive coaches, which is important for QB development as well.
They do have some pieces with a 4 year window in place right now in ONeil, Cleveland and hopefully Darrisaw. Its possible that Davis could end up improving and contribute as well. That remains to be seen. Whoever the new coach is will have the responsibility of filling those 2 remaining spots and keeping the 3 successful ones playing well, as well as depth behind them. Hopefully whoever the Wilfs end up hiring will be able to do that and have better synergy with the GM and OCs than what Zimmer has.
The defense is still the bigger problem right now in my view but as fewer teams seem to be seeking defensive minded head coaches, maybe it will be easier to retain those than ones from the offensive side of the ball.
BigJim®
Footballguy
Scheme schmeme. I think that is a bunch of fandom fiction if Zimmer was to the point of declaring a mandate, and Spielman agreed and drafted Davis because we can't have collapsing pockets with an immobile QB (I'd argue even mobile QBs need a pocket).
JMHO -There's no NFL scheme that requires undersized/turnstile interior OL like Bradbury and Elflein to get rag-dolled whenever they're asked to pass protect. OC changes aren't the reason they get heaved into a pocket; they just aren't NFL capable, and I'd wager won't succeed anywhere else either if they can't do the whole job of an interior OL. Also, scheme seemingly had nothing to do with Davis not playing (if this report is true). They drafted a guy who got too out of shape to contribute in 5 short months. That's player mentality. There's too much poor history drafting this position to blame anyone but scouting.
I'd also probably move the word 'hopefully' before naming Cleveland. O'Niell I'll grant you, but my eyes tell me the jury is still out on Cleveland.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
There is a difference in blocking scheme where they are asking a interior lineman to be able to reach a certain point quickly as is used by the Kubiaks and other schemes that are not asking the linemen to do that.BigJim® said:
For the most part I agree with you though, either they can hold up in pass protection or they cannot. The speed to get to the outside is more about the run blocking than the pass protection although they do try to make them both look the same.
Cleveland isn't perfect but for awhile there he was getting really high grades from PFF. He ended up the season with a 68.1 grade which is above average. He was the 12th highest graded Vikings player by them according to this and he played every snap. I am sure there were some down games/plays for him along the way but as a 2nd year player moving from RG to LG I think that is a promising indicator.
O'Neil who you acknowledge as having arrived had a 73.7 grade by them. He also played every snap. So while Cleveland is not yet at this level, its not bad.
Darrisaw had 71.8 grade by them for the season which is better but he also missed a lot of playing time so that makes it more difficult to compare fairly as all players will have up and down games over the course of a season.
What did you see specifically from Cleveland that makes this questionable?
I would agree with you that he isn't there yet. We are looking for consistently good play over longer time frames here and Cleveland only has 2 seasons played so far. FWIW Cleveland had 66.2 grade from PFF in the 2020 season where he played 622 snaps compared to 1140 so that does show improvement from his rookie season in overall grade and also getting close to twice the number of plays charted. LINK
I also wanted to add that Cleveland was not getting the same amount of help as the RG was from O'Neils play beside him and the Vikings did face some very strong players such as Aaron Donald, Hicks and so on which are very difficult match ups.
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BigJim®
Footballguy
I just didn’t notice any particular difference getting push in short yardage runs or decrease pocket collapse on either side. I don’t know, we’ll see I guess. I think this OL is a long, long way from winning in the trenches.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Yeah I am not talking about the Vikings offensive linemen being elite, just that they have some pieces that are competent.
Garrett Bradbury had a 60.2 grade from PFF in 2021 61.4 in 2020 and 58.1 in 2019. we know he has not played good enough. Those grades are worse if you are just looking at pass protection also, as Bradbury does get good grades for his run blocking. Mostly because of his ability to block guys downfield not because he blows anyone off the line. He is much worse in pass protection.
All of this is relative. Dakota Dozier had a 44.6 grade in 2020. Now that is horrifically bad for how many snaps he played.
So the point I am trying to make is not that any of these linemen are great. Just that they might be good enough to not be considered a weakness compared to their peers around the league.
Of course I am hoping that Cleveland can improve some more in his 3rd season as well as Darrisaw. If Darrisaw improves and they get better play at center than Bradbury it could help Cleveland improve just from not having to over compensate for the weakness of the players on each side of him.
BigJim®
Footballguy
I hope so too. Call me greedy but having an OL that is not only serviceable, but actually controls the line of scrimmage, makes life so much better. Running, for QB, for elite receivers to run routes, and even for the defense. I look at teams like Tennessee, San Fran, Baltimore, Indianapolis... who basically churn our yards on the ground at will even when everyone knows its a run. I can't even fathom being that. New front office has its work cut out.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
Yeah Jim. I would love for the Oline to become a strength as well.
They have been so bad for so long though, it's nice to see some improvement from that at least. I hope they can continue improving.
They still have a long way to go and need 2 more quality starters to be an average or above average unit.
Baby steps.
They have been so bad for so long though, it's nice to see some improvement from that at least. I hope they can continue improving.
They still have a long way to go and need 2 more quality starters to be an average or above average unit.
Baby steps.
I'm even more greedy... What I want to see is both lines becoming strengths.
I hope the next GM builds by starting in the trenches. I really liked the San Fran approach a couple years ago where they specifically mentioned their effort in putting together a "championship defensive line".
I hope the next GM builds by starting in the trenches. I really liked the San Fran approach a couple years ago where they specifically mentioned their effort in putting together a "championship defensive line".
skol asylum
Footballguy
Heatman
Footballguy
This.
Any team that focuses on this will be extremely successful year in and year out. I have said for years if I was and NFL GM every year one of my top 2 picks would be either an offensive or defensive lineman regardless of need.
An elite O-Line will make a bunch of average offensive players look good and good players look great.
An elite D-Line will do the same for defensive players.
This is what the whole team building concept should be based around.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I prefer Poles for the reasons Judd mentioned.cap'n grunge said:
He has a track record of finding good offensive linemen and QB.
