Monday Night Football ***Saints at Bucs*** (-3.5, 41) 1st Place NFC South on the line (1 Viewer)

[Grahamburn]

NFL.com:

"Next Gen Stat of the game: The Buccaneers had a 0.7% win probability with 5:34 remaining in the fourth quarter. Their comeback win was the fourth-largest comeback according to win probability in the Next Gen era (dating back to 2016)."

I left absolutely disgusted after the 4th and 10 punt with about 7 minutes to go.

 

[Capella]

NFL.com:

"Next Gen Stat of the game: The Buccaneers had a 0.7% win probability with 5:34 remaining in the fourth quarter. Their comeback win was the fourth-largest comeback according to win probability in the Next Gen era (dating back to 2016)."

I left absolutely disgusted after the 4th and 10 punt with about 7 minutes to go.

We started to leave but then stopped at that bar 76 in the club to watch the end. That was fun.

 

[Ghost Rider]

All the ruffled feathers.

I think it is far stranger to be taking victory laps on beating a terrible team at home by 1 point.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Bucs will play at San Fran-Loss
Bucs will play Cincinnati-Loss
Bucs will play at Arizona-Maybe
At Atlanta
Carolina

8-9/7-10, probably enough to take the Division

We'll see @ San Fran. Having to roll out a 3rd string QB is pretty rough.

Exactly. SF on the road is tough for a team that's struggling on offense. But a 3rd string QB? That's no gimme for the 49ers. Could be another 17-16 game.

I've flipped my stance on the Niners game already
17-16 all over again, I can see it.
Bucs lose to Bengals the following week would make them 7-7 at that point.
And actually if they pull off a road win vs the Niners, maybe they could upset Cinci at home.
Every win they make happen inches them closer to securing a home Playoff game
They won 3 road Playoff games in 2020

Imagine somehow the Bucs win 4 of their last 5 and go 10-7
Seattle is 7-5, Niners 8-4?
Both of these teams could see a slight collapse here at the end of the season.
Imagine Tampa somehow rises tot he 3-Seed and gets out of the Dallas Cowboys way setting up San Fran/Sea as the 4-Seed
Bucs end up playing NYG/Wash/Sea, something like that in their opening Playoff game

Dallas beats San Fran
Bucs beat whoever
And the Minnesota Vikings are upset as well in the Wildcard Rd as a 2-Seed
There is a path where the Bucs could host the next round of the Playoffs vs Dallas or perhaps another NFC East team
Philly left in the NFCC, Brady and his resume would live on some more.


It's crazy to think about but it could happen

 

[Ministry of Pain]

NFL.com:

"Next Gen Stat of the game: The Buccaneers had a 0.7% win probability with 5:34 remaining in the fourth quarter. Their comeback win was the fourth-largest comeback according to win probability in the Next Gen era (dating back to 2016)."

I left absolutely disgusted after the 4th and 10 punt with about 7 minutes to go.

That was Todd Bowles at his absolute best, doing what nobody else would do in their right mind, he punts down 2 full scores with 7:00 left and the Greatest of All Time walking off the field cussing him out

 

[Grahamburn]

SF could play with Joe Montana at QB this week and they will annihilate this Bucs team.

 

[ericttspikes]

How does Dennis Allen still have a job? That was some terrible coaching.

 

[Capella]

SF could play with Joe Montana at QB this week and they will annihilate this Bucs team.

We got Tom. Gives us a chance every week.

 

[[icon]]

Can we relive the fixing in the NFL debate.

No.

 

[heckmanm]

When Hill is in at QB, is it ever anything but a keeper run? Or is it only all the plays I ever watch by coincidence?

I’ve seen him throw TDs.

after I posted that I was walking past the TV and saw him throw a pass. Just seemed like he always kept it when I was watching and I started to wonder why defenses didn't adjust to that.

 

[Rubi]

Two catches that weren't made hurt the Saints but I thought the third and 1 play call was horrible.

 

[Statorama]

How does Dennis Allen still have a job? That was some terrible coaching.

I can't put this all on him. A couple of absolutely crushing mental mistakes (Ingram running out of bounds when the Saints were trying to run the clock / that JAG CB letting Evans get behind him) and some brutal drops changed things entirely.

Pete Carmichael also has to remember that (a) he aint Sean Payton (b) Dalton aint Brees (c) Calloway aint Thomas

 

[Statorama]

I think the next game the Saints have will say a lot about Allen as a head coach. A loss like this, at this point in the season, can cause a team to mentally check out.

They will be coming off of a bye, will be facing a division rival at home (Falcons @ Superdome), and have some key players returning (hopefully). If they come out flat for that game....

 

[ericttspikes]

How does Dennis Allen still have a job? That was some terrible coaching.

I can't put this all on him. A couple of absolutely crushing mental mistakes (Ingram running out of bounds when the Saints were trying to run the clock / that JAG CB letting Evans get behind him) and some brutal drops changed things entirely.

Pete Carmichael also has to remember that (a) he aint Sean Payton (b) Dalton aint Brees (c) Calloway aint Thomas

True. It's not all on him, but he is a terrible coach.

He was awful with the Raiders and he's been awful with the Saints. Not sure what is left to see in the guy, his track record speaks for itself. He's a 12-37 NFL head coach. Do the Saints really want him back next year? I think the only people who are happy he hasn't been fired yet are the Eagles.

Ingram messed up. No doubt about it. My question is why was a hurt Ingram in the game with that play designed for him in that situation? He should of gotten the first down by any means necessary and certainly should've stayed in bounds, but was he really the best guy for that situation? Is that all on Pete? If that is all Pete wouldn't Dennis have a say in that? Maybe not. Maybe that is big part of the problem.

Need 1 for the first, pass play? Incomplete. We're 4-8 let's punt it from the 44 on 4th and 1? All head scratchers to me. The only way you pass on 3rd and 1 is if you're going for it 4th and 1. Again, maybe that is all Pete, but if so, the buck stops with Allen. If Pete is that incompetent, Payton must've over ruled that guy all the time.

Payton was a very aggressive coach. His last 4 seasons he went for it on 4th and 1 or 2 while tied or leading 20 of 23 times. No doubt in my mind he'd of gone for it there, and it would've been the right thing to do. Allen is not a coach who plays to win, he plays not to lose, which ironically is what usually happens.

 

[lazyike]

Crazy. They were dead. NO throwing on that 3rd and 1 was the game.

Ingram going out of bounds when he could have easily gotten the extra yard. Couldn't believe a vet made that mistake. Like he didn't want to get hit.

Paying your 27 year old pass catching back Kamara what ? 75 million ( a potential HOFer) to sit out the sidelines and passing to 33 year old Ingram who was injured late to start with….. I have no sympathy that the Saints lost….none.

 

[Grahamburn]

SF could play with Joe Montana at QB this week and they will annihilate this Bucs team.

We got Tom. Gives us a chance every week.

I don't think he's playing all that well, honestly, but I can't necessarily argue with that.

Defense is solid even with injuries. Don't turn it over. Try to steal it at the end.

 

[Capella]

I think that game last night was a testament to never ever ever ever ever ever hiring defensive coaches. It’s an offensive game now and these guys are all risk adverse. Horrible coaching on both sides.

 

[wlwiles]

I'm not saying I think the NFL is rigged. But after Ingram inexplicably stepped OOB short and then the Saints throw a freaking slant on 3rd down, I'm saying that I understand why some people who already think that may see stuff like this as fuel to their fire. Last night watching the game I was (and still am now) completely and utterly dumbfounded by what Ingram did. A veteran guy, with the big fluorescent orange stick RIGHT IN HIS FACE just sidesteps out of bounds well short late in the 4th...just no excuse in the world for that.

 

[Insein]

I'm not saying I think the NFL is rigged. But after Ingram inexplicably stepped OOB short and then the Saints throw a freaking slant on 3rd down, I'm saying that I understand why some people who already think that may see stuff like this as fuel to their fire. Last night watching the game I was (and still am now) completely and utterly dumbfounded by what Ingram did. A veteran guy, with the big fluorescent orange stick RIGHT IN HIS FACE just sidesteps out of bounds well short late in the 4th...just no excuse in the world for that.

Yes but other than the money line, it didn't affect the outcome betting wise. Saints still covered and it went way under.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

I would really like to hear Ingram answer the question "why did you run out of bounds?"....

after that, the coaching staff had a chance to kind of bail Ingram out and they **** the bed....you've got millions of people sitting on their sofas at home saying "stay in bounds" and then "run the ball on third and one".....it really can't be that hard....

 

[Statorama]

How does Dennis Allen still have a job? That was some terrible coaching.

I can't put this all on him. A couple of absolutely crushing mental mistakes (Ingram running out of bounds when the Saints were trying to run the clock / that JAG CB letting Evans get behind him) and some brutal drops changed things entirely.

Pete Carmichael also has to remember that (a) he aint Sean Payton (b) Dalton aint Brees (c) Calloway aint Thomas

True. It's not all on him, but he is a terrible coach.

He was awful with the Raiders and he's been awful with the Saints. Not sure what is left to see in the guy, his track record speaks for itself. He's a 12-37 NFL head coach. Do the Saints really want him back next year? I think the only people who are happy he hasn't been fired yet are the Eagles.

Ingram messed up. No doubt about it. My question is why was a hurt Ingram in the game with that play designed for him in that situation? He should of gotten the first down by any means necessary and certainly should've stayed in bounds, but was he really the best guy for that situation? Is that all on Pete? If that is all Pete wouldn't Dennis have a say in that? Maybe not. Maybe that is big part of the problem.

Need 1 for the first, pass play? Incomplete. We're 4-8 let's punt it from the 44 on 4th and 1? All head scratchers to me. The only way you pass on 3rd and 1 is if you're going for it 4th and 1. Again, maybe that is all Pete, but if so, the buck stops with Allen. If Pete is that incompetent, Payton must've over ruled that guy all the time.

Payton was a very aggressive coach. His last 4 seasons he went for it on 4th and 1 or 2 while tied or leading 20 of 23 times. No doubt in my mind he'd of gone for it there, and it would've been the right thing to do. Allen is not a coach who plays to win, he plays not to lose, which ironically is what usually happens.

Well, lets be clear - At this point I don't think anyone sees Dennis Allen as the long term solution at HC. I do think he's a very good DC and gets juice out of some sub-par talent. Given the situation the Saints were in, I felt like he was the best choice last offseason for a second chance as a HC. Thought was they'd have continuity on Defense and Offense (Pete C) with Payton leaving. I don't think Allen gets a third try at the wheel once he's through here.

Like a lot of pieces on this team, Allen is a placeholder until the big demolition begins.

 

[Statorama]

I would really like to hear Ingram answer the question "why did you run out of bounds?"....

after that, the coaching staff had a chance to kind of bail Ingram out and they **** the bed....you've got millions of people sitting on their sofas at home saying "stay in bounds" and then "run the ball on third and one".....it really can't be that hard....

This was example 1A of why teams run it three straight times to make the other team use their time outs.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I think that game last night was a testament to never ever ever ever ever ever hiring defensive coaches. It’s an offensive game now and these guys are all risk adverse. Horrible coaching on both sides.

Belichick won 6 Super Bowls and played in a couple more over the last 2 decades, not exactly an offensive guru, Brady was being held back there for most of his career.
You can go pretty far bucking the trend and being a defensive guy, but you have to be able to turn the offense over to someone you truly trust, many cannot.

I cannot imagine Todd Bowles makes it to Year 2...BUT a lot hinges on the future of the QB position for Tampa Bay, wouldn't want to let that go for long. Also, the Bucs are not as empty in draft capital as a lot of others that either won a Super Bowl or were trying to get there.
And the Bucs have players that other teams want if they truly desire to start a rebuild after Brady, I'm not so sure I would do it that way.
There's plenty of good things to keep for the Bucs

I have an entire action plan i am working on for the Bucs whenever Brady says good bye and I think it will be good bye and not retirement, that might not look as clear for some right now.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

@Capella

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

That's for you in case you missed it last night. Many of my fellow Buccaneers were long asleep by the time the Bucs were down 16-3 with 3:00 left around mid field
I believe that is Wirfs but you tell me what you think as he is leaping into his arms
Easy to write this team off but a key road win vs a No 3 QB in San Fran might be the spark they need, maybe it was last night, we'll see what they do but many think Niners tear them up, I have some real doubts about that now.

Bucs inability to manufacture TDs is disturbing, think Brady has like 15 TDs on the season, maybe not that many.

 

[efactor]

I think that game last night was a testament to never ever ever ever ever ever hiring defensive coaches. It’s an offensive game now and these guys are all risk adverse. Horrible coaching on both sides.

I have an entire action plan i am working on for the Bucs whenever Brady says good bye and I think it will be good bye and not retirement, that might not look as clear for some right now.

Agree. He will keep playing and everything is set up for it to be in SF, assuming Kyle would want that and they can make the money work. 49ers are a complete team other than QB and Lance could use another year in the system. He's only 22, so no rush.

Brady would love to finish with his hometown team and the situation is set up perfectly if both sides want it to happen.

 

[Capella]

I think that game last night was a testament to never ever ever ever ever ever hiring defensive coaches. It’s an offensive game now and these guys are all risk adverse. Horrible coaching on both sides.

I have an entire action plan i am working on for the Bucs whenever Brady says good bye and I think it will be good bye and not retirement, that might not look as clear for some right now.

Agree. He will keep playing and everything is set up for it to be in SF, assuming Kyle would want that and they can make the money work. 49ers are a complete team other than QB and Lance could use another year in the system. He's only 22, so no rush.

Brady would love to finish with his hometown team and the situation is set up perfectly if both sides want it to happen.

He’s always said in the past he wants to be near his kids who are in Miami now I guess, and his son in NYC, so I doubt SF happens. I guess maybe he would do it for one year but seems unlikely based off of what he’s said in the past.

 

[efactor]

I think that game last night was a testament to never ever ever ever ever ever hiring defensive coaches. It’s an offensive game now and these guys are all risk adverse. Horrible coaching on both sides.

I have an entire action plan i am working on for the Bucs whenever Brady says good bye and I think it will be good bye and not retirement, that might not look as clear for some right now.

Agree. He will keep playing and everything is set up for it to be in SF, assuming Kyle would want that and they can make the money work. 49ers are a complete team other than QB and Lance could use another year in the system. He's only 22, so no rush.

Brady would love to finish with his hometown team and the situation is set up perfectly if both sides want it to happen.

He’s always said in the past he wants to be near his kids who are in Miami now I guess, and his son in NYC, so I doubt SF happens. I guess maybe he would do it for one year but seems unlikely based off of what he’s said in the past.

That would kind of kill that scenario if he really means it.

 

[efactor]

I would really like to hear Ingram answer the question "why did you run out of bounds?"....

after that, the coaching staff had a chance to kind of bail Ingram out and they **** the bed....you've got millions of people sitting on their sofas at home saying "stay in bounds" and then "run the ball on third and one".....it really can't be that hard....

It wasn't running out of bounds that was the issue, it was not getting the first down before he ran out. He had another couple yards easy. There was still 6 minutes left so the clock didn't stop.

Horrible play all around

 

[Capella]

I think that game last night was a testament to never ever ever ever ever ever hiring defensive coaches. It’s an offensive game now and these guys are all risk adverse. Horrible coaching on both sides.

I have an entire action plan i am working on for the Bucs whenever Brady says good bye and I think it will be good bye and not retirement, that might not look as clear for some right now.

Agree. He will keep playing and everything is set up for it to be in SF, assuming Kyle would want that and they can make the money work. 49ers are a complete team other than QB and Lance could use another year in the system. He's only 22, so no rush.

Brady would love to finish with his hometown team and the situation is set up perfectly if both sides want it to happen.

He’s always said in the past he wants to be near his kids who are in Miami now I guess, and his son in NYC, so I doubt SF happens. I guess maybe he would do it for one year but seems unlikely based off of what he’s said in the past.

That would kind of kill that scenario if he really means it.

Yea he’s mentioned it many times as a factor for coming to Tampa (along with what was a good team). I guess minds can change, especially with how good SF’s roster is, but I doubt it.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

SF could play with Joe Montana at QB this week and they will annihilate this Bucs team.

I think most people expect a low-scoring game. You're that confident about a team playing Brady when one score could make all the difference?

 

[efactor]

I think that game last night was a testament to never ever ever ever ever ever hiring defensive coaches. It’s an offensive game now and these guys are all risk adverse. Horrible coaching on both sides.

I have an entire action plan i am working on for the Bucs whenever Brady says good bye and I think it will be good bye and not retirement, that might not look as clear for some right now.

Agree. He will keep playing and everything is set up for it to be in SF, assuming Kyle would want that and they can make the money work. 49ers are a complete team other than QB and Lance could use another year in the system. He's only 22, so no rush.

Brady would love to finish with his hometown team and the situation is set up perfectly if both sides want it to happen.

He’s always said in the past he wants to be near his kids who are in Miami now I guess, and his son in NYC, so I doubt SF happens. I guess maybe he would do it for one year but seems unlikely based off of what he’s said in the past.

That would kind of kill that scenario if he really means it.

Yea he’s mentioned it many times as a factor for coming to Tampa (along with what was a good team). I guess minds can change, especially with how good SF’s roster is, but I doubt it.

I like Brady and all, but he went to TB because they had a team ready to win and had Evans and Godwin (plus recruited AB and Gronk) plus a coach that was all about the passing game and a good OL.

We will see I guess but not buying the "all about the kids" narrative. I'm sure he loves them and all, but seems like signing up to play another year after he retired played into him getting divorced and being away from them. But hey, I can be pretty cynical at times

 

[Capella]

I think that game last night was a testament to never ever ever ever ever ever hiring defensive coaches. It’s an offensive game now and these guys are all risk adverse. Horrible coaching on both sides.

I have an entire action plan i am working on for the Bucs whenever Brady says good bye and I think it will be good bye and not retirement, that might not look as clear for some right now.

Agree. He will keep playing and everything is set up for it to be in SF, assuming Kyle would want that and they can make the money work. 49ers are a complete team other than QB and Lance could use another year in the system. He's only 22, so no rush.

Brady would love to finish with his hometown team and the situation is set up perfectly if both sides want it to happen.

He’s always said in the past he wants to be near his kids who are in Miami now I guess, and his son in NYC, so I doubt SF happens. I guess maybe he would do it for one year but seems unlikely based off of what he’s said in the past.

That would kind of kill that scenario if he really means it.

Yea he’s mentioned it many times as a factor for coming to Tampa (along with what was a good team). I guess minds can change, especially with how good SF’s roster is, but I doubt it.

I like Brady and all, but he went to TB because they had a team ready to win and had Evans and Godwin (plus recruited AB and Gronk) plus a coach that was all about the passing game and a good OL.

We will see I guess but not buying the "all about the kids" narrative. I'm sure he loves them and all, but seems like signing up to play another year after he retired played into him getting divorced and being away from them. But hey, I can be pretty cynical at times

I’m not saying he’s the family man of the year or anything but his kids are often at practice. The oldest took snaps at QB last week and threw to the wideouts. Who knows, maybe he will go to the west coast.

 

[rockaction]

"Never ever ever ever ever hire a defensive coach." - Capella

@Capella Want to go into the Jets thread and explain why for me? I said that when Saleh was selected and was immediately fired away at by the regulars who picked that one over the coals with steely knives.

Just to be sure, I pretty much totally agree with you, but. . .

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Grahamburn]

SF could play with Joe Montana at QB this week and they will annihilate this Bucs team.

I think most people expect a low-scoring game. You're that confident about a team playing Brady when one score could make all the difference?

Yes. Absolutely hammering SF money line.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I think that game last night was a testament to never ever ever ever ever ever hiring defensive coaches. It’s an offensive game now and these guys are all risk adverse. Horrible coaching on both sides.

I have an entire action plan i am working on for the Bucs whenever Brady says good bye and I think it will be good bye and not retirement, that might not look as clear for some right now.

Agree. He will keep playing and everything is set up for it to be in SF, assuming Kyle would want that and they can make the money work. 49ers are a complete team other than QB and Lance could use another year in the system. He's only 22, so no rush.

Brady would love to finish with his hometown team and the situation is set up perfectly if both sides want it to happen.

He’s always said in the past he wants to be near his kids who are in Miami now I guess, and his son in NYC, so I doubt SF happens. I guess maybe he would do it for one year but seems unlikely based off of what he’s said in the past.

That would kind of kill that scenario if he really means it.

Yea he’s mentioned it many times as a factor for coming to Tampa (along with what was a good team). I guess minds can change, especially with how good SF’s roster is, but I doubt it.

I like Brady and all, but he went to TB because they had a team ready to win and had Evans and Godwin (plus recruited AB and Gronk) plus a coach that was all about the passing game and a good OL.

We will see I guess but not buying the "all about the kids" narrative. I'm sure he loves them and all, but seems like signing up to play another year after he retired played into him getting divorced and being away from them. But hey, I can be pretty cynical at times

I’m not saying he’s the family man of the year or anything but his kids are often at practice. The oldest took snaps at QB last week and threw to the wideouts. Who knows, maybe he will go to the west coast.

I'll take it a few steps further, from all reports the parents are doing everything to make it as easy on the kids as they can.
I have not seen a lot of biting in the media back and forth
Tom is not sporting a new girl friend on his arm wherever he goes
People forget that Tom has a child with Bridget Moynahan and again from all reports, both Giselle and Tom made his 1st son feel like part of the family when they had their two other children.
I rail on Brady plenty, I've been super critical because of my Miami roots but i have enjoyed these last 2 going on 3 seasons with him grabbing the TB QB position by the horns and winning another Super Bowl, his 7th trophy.

I'm bitter about Miami being his ***** for 2 decades but he left me with a sweet taste here at the end, wish more fans that hate him could experience what it's like on this side. I'm bummed he is wanting to kick up to the booth, he'd make an amazing Head Coach/Figurehead, love him/hate him.

And I'll pivot this into another discussion to have in future posts.
As an NFL owner, before you hand out $250M to a QB and still not be sure you have the right guy...
Pay Brady $20M to coach the football team, more than double what anyone else gets and pair him with one of the best up and coming superstar QBs and see what you truly have
Brady should have been coaching Justin Herbert as an example. Whoever the top QB in the '23 Draft, let Brady take a young mind and coach them up their 1st 3-4 seasons in the NFL
Maybe Brady can't run a defense or the other half the team you need in order to have success but he would also instill some great things into a young QB, could set your franchise up for a decade long successful run.

I'm just saying with all the money that gets tossed around and you can pay coaches as much as you want to lure them, why not back the truck up for a Head Coach like Tom Brady? They hired Jeff Saturday. I want Brady to turn my rookie QB into a future CEO of the offense and team. Someone that will command respect and get it from his other players. The man is 45 years old and jogged off the field after willing his team down 2 TDs with 3:00 left to go in a Monday Night Showdown and likely saved the Bucs' season...45 YRS OLD, that's about my age and I often think about that. When Brady retires, the next oldest guy is going to be like a decade younger than me. So yeah I want Brady to hang on as long as possible, he comes from the same generation as I do.