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Mortgage Rates (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter MechEng
- Start date
Steeler
Footballguy
Seemed like it was the same guy who sold you the first mortgage, at least that's the way I read it. Why didn't you reach out to your friend before you closed on the mortgage 2 months ago? Why didn't you know about the 1.8% tax 2 months ago? Why couldn't that have been mitigated 2 months ago? I guess I'm just confused about the situation.
shadyridr
Footballguy
Yeah it is the same guy. I paid mortgage tax 2 months ago as part of my closing costs when I bought the house. I knew about it. Two months ago was a purchase and rates were higher. Now im thinking about refinancing already and I would have to pay another 1.8% mortgage tax. This is how it works in NYC. It sucks. Im not entirely sure what you are confused about.
gianmarco
Footballguy
For a refi, it should be much less. You can shop around and you can use institutions that aren't in your state.
Do yourself a favor and make a couple phone calls. Get the name and number of the guy in this thread. If you hear similar numbers, then you know where you stand. The costs shouldn't be so location specific in this case.
Zegras11
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Steeler
Footballguy
![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
[icon]
Insoxicated
Yield Curve Inverted, means could be looking at additional fed rate cuts coming.
Mortgage rates to continue downward?
Mortgage rates to continue downward?
shadyridr
Footballguy
Tried Wells Fargo, rate was 4% with 0.375 points and estimated closing costs were $20k
Tried Lenderfi, not licensed in NY
shadyridr
Footballguy
You have to pay recording tax of 1.8% in NYC on mortgage when you buy and you have to pay it again if you refinance. Such BS.
shadyridr
Footballguy
From your linkgianmarco said:
That does not appear to include the money I have to put in escrow for prepaid real estate taxes and homeowners insurance (realizing I will get money back from my current loan so its a wash). Now also add in appx $8k in mortgage tax and its in the same ballpark.
gianmarco
Footballguy
You don't count escrow money because, as you said, you get it back from other loan.
You said there was a CEMA option that costs you $1300 and you avoid the mortgage tax.
If you are quoting closing costs of $11,000 because it's including your escrow then that makes more sense. But you shouldn't ever do that because those aren't true closing costs as you have to pay property taxes or insurance the same no matter what.
If it's not including escrow, and CEMA is $1800, I still don't see how you get to $11K. You have a breakdown of closing costs?
shadyridr
Footballguy
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Capella
Footballguy
Here’s my closing cost refi breakdowns. Somebody take a hack here. I am shopping for the title options. Not counting my escrow. I was told I will get a discount using the same title agency but they haven’t called me back yet with that number.
1600 - underwriting and processing fees
570 - appraisal fee and credit report
2500 - lenders title ins
915 - title settlement fee
350 - title insurance services
250 - recording fee
2670 - transfer taxes
1600 - underwriting and processing fees
570 - appraisal fee and credit report
2500 - lenders title ins
915 - title settlement fee
350 - title insurance services
250 - recording fee
2670 - transfer taxes
Last edited by a moderator:
gianmarco
Footballguy
That makes sense and why there was confusion.
You don't ever include escrow when discussing closing costs because that money is being paid anyway. Even if you don't have a mortgage, you are paying for property taxes and insurance.
That escrow money doesn't factor whether or not you refi.
So, figure out the closing costs outside of that plus the CEMA. Figure out how much you save per month. That gives you a breakeven point. If it's less than 5-6 years, then likely makes sense.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Some of those are reasonable, some a little high, but overall about right. Just shop around a few different places (talk to anyone local to get recs) and go from there. Differences in a few hundred or even up to a grand or 2 can be regional so there's not much else anyone else here can probably help with (at least AFAIK).
shadyridr
Footballguy
Got a quote from a local credit union: 3.625 rate, $444 in total closing costs. I would have to pay the mortgage tax on top of that. It would take about 4.5 years to pay off and be about $160/mo in savings. She actually suggested waiting as she thought rates would only go down.
gianmarco
Footballguy
There you go. That's sounding a lot more reasonable and what I would have expected.
$160/month x 12 = $1920 per year. Even with $8k in mortgage tax, as you said, you pay that off in 4.5 years and then you keep saving beyond then. It's a no brainer unless you're moving in the next 2-3 years.
Can you do the CEMA option with the credit union?
And yes, rates should go down more, but it's never guaranteed. You can find out how their locks work as some will let you float it down even if you lock in.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Also, what is that 3.625 rate on? A 30 year fixed? Did you price out any other options like a 15 year fixed or a 10/1 ARM?
shadyridr
Footballguy
30 year fixed. I cant afford 15 year at this time. I would have done so when I purchased a few months ago if I could. Not interested in 10/1 ARM.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Going to be tough to get much lower on a 30 yr fixed. It may go down to 3.5. I can't even see it going lower than that but others who do this can answer that better.
Either way, you should definitely look at doing this. And, as already mentioned above in other posts, see if you can roll in those costs into the loan so you have nothing out of pocket.
Good luck!
I don't think NY is alone in these taxes (though I think their rates are high). I think it's typically called a Mortgage Registration Tax. Here in MN you get hit with the mortgage registration tax (0.23%) and a deed transfer tax (0.33%).
Actually, now that I'm looking it up, according to this link, most states have a deed transfer tax, but only a handful have the mortgage registration tax.
Johnny Rock
Footballguy
Yeah I hate these bs fees. I already “own” the house. It’s like paying sales tax twice but under a different tax name.
Another one is paying for the Lender’s title policy at each refi. The policy I originally bought should transfer to the new Lender, maybe charge $100 for admin to reassign.
You can get a small discount if you use the same title co. but it should be almost nothing imo.
Capella
Footballguy
culdeus
Footballguy
30yr rates can really only go so low even if all the backing rates are at 0, currently.
gianmarco
Footballguy
That's what I was saying. I can't see anything lower than 3.5%.
If it were me, I'd just lock it in now and be done with it. 1/8th of a point isn't worth risking it going up, IMO.
And ask if they can float it down if it drops.
gianmarco
Footballguy
If you are less than a year into your mortgage and thinking about refinancing, you really have to crunch the numbers and see if it's worth it. Any chance you move within the next few years?
The closing costs and what not might make it a poor decision to refinance....even if you are getting a better rate.
The closing costs and what not might make it a poor decision to refinance....even if you are getting a better rate.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
This can be hard to compare since there are different state and local fees and requirements and different loan types and structures. But just for ####s and giggles, as a lender, this is what we typically charge:
underwriting and processing fees - none
appraisal fee and credit report - credit report is about $4 per person. Appraisal usually $325 but more for multi-unit. Appraisals aren't always required.
lenders title ins - $65
title settlement fee - none
title insurance services - none
recording fee - usually $50 to $100 depending on county
transfer taxes - none
There are a few other fees that total about $100.
dgreen
Footballguy
I was on an ARM with my credit union with a rate around 2.375% that was set to adjust last Summer. So, I refinanced into a 30 year fixed at 4.75% with my credit union. Now I see I can probably get 3.375% (0.625 points) with my credit union (probably drops our monthly about $200). Before that ARM, I was on another ARM. So, I've already refinanced this house three times. The last refinance we took some money out for some home improvements (mostly floors - wood on main level, LVP in basement). Add in closing costs each time and we still owe almost as much as we did when we first bought the house almost 15 years ago. We still have plenty of equity - our LTV is probably under 0.60 - so I'm not worried from that standpoint. I just don't like the fact that our principal hasn't gone down much.
I've been thinking how I really don't want to refi again, but the current situation seems like a no-brainer. My guess is there's little chance we move in the next 6 years. If we did, it would be because our income situation has drastically improved and in that scenario I probably wouldn't worry too much whether another refi was worth it and I'd gladly move.
Worm
slimy ninja
FWIW urbanhack's guy (actually his boss since urbanhack's guy is not licensed in NC) was super quick and helpful. Locked in at 3.375 for a 30, with no points, closing costs, or costs out of pocket except for appraisal fee. Quick and easy, should close fairly quick.
dgreen
Footballguy
culdeus
Footballguy
culdeus
Footballguy
Wait, I thought it was an easier decision if you WERE inside 1 year as closing costs in those situations can be reduced.
Reduced? How so?
I could be mistaken on this but I was looking at it as you already closed on the original loan and incurred all of those various closing costs....are you saying they can be reimbursed/refunded in some way due to refinancing again within 1 year?
culdeus
Footballguy
I mean, yeah. That's normally what I have seen around here. You can get your appraisal waived, and some title insurance costs can be reduced amongst other things.
shady inc
Footballguy
Went with them also. Thanks for the contact info @skycriesmary
Moved from 4.75 to 3.75 with no closing costs and no appraisal (just purchased in Dec). Finishing up paperwork this week.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Johnny Rock
Footballguy
shady inc
Footballguy
The total loan costs were $990, but then we got a "lender credit" for $990 to net it to zero. We could have picked a lower interest rate, but the lender credit wouldn't have applied. Payback period on the 3.625 with closing costs didn't make sense in our situation so we went with the no closing costs and 3.75
ghostguy123
Footballguy
So you managed to walk in, pay nothing, and walk out with a much lower payment for the same/shorter amount of time. Nice.
My current rate of 3.75 with 10 years left seems to me like I am just gonna ride that out. I dont want to put anything down right now to lower the rate. I may as well just put whatever I would have paid right towards the principle.
-OZ-
Footballguy
-OZ-
Footballguy
gianmarco
Footballguy
-OZ-
Footballguy
True. I'm just not betting on rates being lower in the near future.
I'm contemplating, though not extremely serious, a vacation home worth about 2/3 of our home, using a 10/1 or 15. But I think non-primary home mortgages are more expensive.
