My Stock Value Strategy Starts Now (3 Viewers)

[eoMMan]

Bought 325 shares of FAZ at 19.68...I'm begging for more punishment.(looking to unload these quickly...we'll see)

5% loss in 2 hours.I am sitting of FAS believing the Feds will do whatever needed to bail out this sector. I hope you catch a spike on FAZ and get out with a profit.

If you want to get out....Pre-Market: 19.70 +1.06 (5.69%) - Mar 27, 9:01AM EDT

 

[BassNBrew]

Oil back into the $52 range for those looking to exit.

 

[BassNBrew]

SCO up almost $2.

Just bought 100 UCO at $9.55.

 

[David Dodds]

sold the remaining shares of my SCO at $28.85. Took a bath in this, but happy to get out at this price as this thing was at $26+ yesterday. Just about done messing with the market here. I will recap my overall results later today. I hold no stocks at this time.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

In 2000 DXO @ $3.01.

 

[FavreCo]

Bought 325 shares of FAZ at 19.68...I'm begging for more punishment.(looking to unload these quickly...we'll see)

5% loss in 2 hours.I am sitting of FAS believing the Feds will do whatever needed to bail out this sector. I hope you catch a spike on FAZ and get out with a profit.

Back in FAS myself now at 6.78.

 

[BassNBrew]

exm is thru the roof.

 

[bigfishboy]

Bought 325 shares of FAZ at 19.68...I'm begging for more punishment.(looking to unload these quickly...we'll see)

5% loss in 2 hours.I am sitting of FAS believing the Feds will do whatever needed to bail out this sector. I hope you catch a spike on FAZ and get out with a profit.

Looking at the charts I'm a bit skeptical either of these would be big winners longer term. If I was a believer in FAS I might short FAZ and vice-versa. It just looks like the highs and lows on these things are successively lower each time they make a run.

Mark, You have said this a couple other times., but this is the first time I have actually understand what you are saying. I have read a bit on the degredation ETF's have experienced, but the articles always seem to discuss the oil ETF's. I can understand why the rollover would degrade the value over time. On the financial ETF (or other sectors for that matter), I don't understand why they would degrade over time. Can you explain it like I am Shuke? Is it the leveraging?

 

[bigfishboy]

Bought 325 shares of FAZ at 19.68...I'm begging for more punishment.(looking to unload these quickly...we'll see)

5% loss in 2 hours.I am sitting of FAS believing the Feds will do whatever needed to bail out this sector. I hope you catch a spike on FAZ and get out with a profit.

Back in FAS myself now at 6.78.

Welcome aboard the FAS train, Choo Choo!

 

[FavreCo]

Bought 325 shares of FAZ at 19.68...I'm begging for more punishment.(looking to unload these quickly...we'll see)

5% loss in 2 hours.I am sitting of FAS believing the Feds will do whatever needed to bail out this sector. I hope you catch a spike on FAZ and get out with a profit.

Looking at the charts I'm a bit skeptical either of these would be big winners longer term. If I was a believer in FAS I might short FAZ and vice-versa. It just looks like the highs and lows on these things are successively lower each time they make a run.

Mark, You have said this a couple other times., but this is the first time I have actually understand what you are saying. I have read a bit on the degredation ETF's have experienced, but the articles always seem to discuss the oil ETF's. I can understand why the rollover would degrade the value over time. On the financial ETF (or other sectors for that matter), I don't understand why they would degrade over time. Can you explain it like I am Shuke? Is it the leveraging?

One that doesn't seem to decay is SSO. It seems to firmly track the SPY x2. FAS and FAZ I am wondering about.

 

[Lord of Football]

Bought 325 shares of FAZ at 19.68...I'm begging for more punishment.(looking to unload these quickly...we'll see)

5% loss in 2 hours.I am sitting of FAS believing the Feds will do whatever needed to bail out this sector. I hope you catch a spike on FAZ and get out with a profit.

If you want to get out....Pre-Market: 19.70 +1.06 (5.69%) - Mar 27, 9:01AM EDT

Hoping to sell at the end of the day today...last hour. We'll see if this works.

 

[Buckna]

First three purchases:500 FEED @ $1.90400 GPRE @ $1.641000 SIRI @ $.247I am watching FEED and GPRE daily and hopefully realize some quick gains. I wasn't that serious about SIRI, but while researching last week I took a break and paid for my XM subscription for the coming year. My son asked what their stock was doing we looked and he was "Wow, I could buy shares of that." So we are going 50/50 on that and will hold SIRI for a while.That's it for me today...going low and slow.

FEED was my play in the stock contest. I bought in with fictional dollars at 1.67. I agree that this company should be HUGE. It's at 2.20 now

Just a heads up...FEED is now trading above the 50 day MA, closing today @ 2.70. Can't help but think if this security passes 3.00, institutions are going to increase holdings...at least I hope.

In for 1,000 shares at 2.53

 

[bigfishboy]

Bought 325 shares of FAZ at 19.68...I'm begging for more punishment.(looking to unload these quickly...we'll see)

5% loss in 2 hours.I am sitting of FAS believing the Feds will do whatever needed to bail out this sector. I hope you catch a spike on FAZ and get out with a profit.

Looking at the charts I'm a bit skeptical either of these would be big winners longer term. If I was a believer in FAS I might short FAZ and vice-versa. It just looks like the highs and lows on these things are successively lower each time they make a run.

Mark, You have said this a couple other times., but this is the first time I have actually understand what you are saying. I have read a bit on the degredation ETF's have experienced, but the articles always seem to discuss the oil ETF's. I can understand why the rollover would degrade the value over time. On the financial ETF (or other sectors for that matter), I don't understand why they would degrade over time. Can you explain it like I am Shuke? Is it the leveraging?

One that doesn't seem to decay is SSO. It seems to firmly track the SPY x2. FAS and FAZ I am wondering about.

I picked off the largest six runs of these two stocks during the last five days. Three times the increasing ETF had a greater % change than the decreasing one. Three times the decreasing ETF had a greater % change. However, in the two largest runs the decreasing stock had much larger changes than the increasing so the five day change favored the declining stock handily (33.1% vs 11.6%). Ten day and 20 day changes also favored the declining stock (55.2 vs 35.8, and 65.8 vs 18.1).I wish I could get more intraday information than just 5 days, does anyone know how (freely)?Without it, my conclusions (based on WAY too small of a sample) are that short duration intraday runs have equal proability of favoring the decliner and the increaser, but the decliner will have greater % changes on larger runs and over longer periods of time.Did I get any of that correct, Mark?

 

[Mark Davis]

I picked off the largest six runs of these two stocks during the last five days. Three times the increasing ETF had a greater % change than the decreasing one. Three times the decreasing ETF had a greater % change. However, in the two largest runs the decreasing stock had much larger changes than the increasing so the five day change favored the declining stock handily (33.1% vs 11.6%). Ten day and 20 day changes also favored the declining stock (55.2 vs 35.8, and 65.8 vs 18.1).I wish I could get more intraday information than just 5 days, does anyone know how (freely)?Without it, my conclusions (based on WAY too small of a sample) are that short duration intraday runs have equal proability of favoring the decliner and the increaser, but the decliner will have greater % changes on larger runs and over longer periods of time.Did I get any of that correct, Mark?

To be honest, I don't know the answer to that question. However, just from an intuitive basis I would have thought while financials were at their low that FAS would be at its low (which it was) and FAZ would be at its peak (which it wasn't). Let me try to put some numbers behind what I'm saying. Looking at FAZ I'll roll it back to its peak that I show. If my numbers are wrong here, someone please correct me. I'm pulling these from Yahoo Finance. I'm showing FAZ traded as high as $173.01 on Nov 20, 2008. On that same date, FAS traded as low as $13.81. From that point, both of these ETF's have fallen a long way. Wouldn't you suspect one to be up while the other is down in roughly proportionate amounts? Yet today we have FAZ at $19.90 (-88.5%) and FAS at $6.44 (-53.4%). I guess in my mind when seeing these numbers is why would anyone be long for these on anything more than a day trade basis? Even in short term trades, wouldn't shorting the other stock be the way to go?I may be missing something easy here that explains it but I don't see any motivation for being long either of these issues.

 

[eoMMan]

I picked off the largest six runs of these two stocks during the last five days. Three times the increasing ETF had a greater % change than the decreasing one. Three times the decreasing ETF had a greater % change. However, in the two largest runs the decreasing stock had much larger changes than the increasing so the five day change favored the declining stock handily (33.1% vs 11.6%). Ten day and 20 day changes also favored the declining stock (55.2 vs 35.8, and 65.8 vs 18.1).

I wish I could get more intraday information than just 5 days, does anyone know how (freely)?

Without it, my conclusions (based on WAY too small of a sample) are that short duration intraday runs have equal proability of favoring the decliner and the increaser, but the decliner will have greater % changes on larger runs and over longer periods of time.

Did I get any of that correct, Mark?

To be honest, I don't know the answer to that question. However, just from an intuitive basis I would have thought while financials were at their low that FAS would be at its low (which it was) and FAZ would be at its peak (which it wasn't). Let me try to put some numbers behind what I'm saying. Looking at FAZ I'll roll it back to its peak that I show. If my numbers are wrong here, someone please correct me. I'm pulling these from Yahoo Finance. I'm showing FAZ traded as high as $173.01 on Nov 20, 2008. On that same date, FAS traded as low as $13.81. From that point, both of these ETF's have fallen a long way. Wouldn't you suspect one to be up while the other is down in roughly proportionate amounts? Yet today we have FAZ at $19.90 (-88.5%) and FAS at $6.44 (-53.4%). I guess in my mind when seeing these numbers is why would anyone be long for these on anything more than a day trade basis? Even in short term trades, wouldn't shorting the other stock be the way to go?

I may be missing something easy here that explains it but I don't see any motivation for being long either of these issues.

Yeah, they're not designed to be held for long periods of time. Decent article here:

http://www.etfexpert.com/etf_expert/2008/0...raged-etfs.html

Edit to add:

A little better article here.... http://seekingalpha.com/article/127744-wha...day?source=feed

 

[siffoin]

I picked off the largest six runs of these two stocks during the last five days. Three times the increasing ETF had a greater % change than the decreasing one. Three times the decreasing ETF had a greater % change. However, in the two largest runs the decreasing stock had much larger changes than the increasing so the five day change favored the declining stock handily (33.1% vs 11.6%). Ten day and 20 day changes also favored the declining stock (55.2 vs 35.8, and 65.8 vs 18.1).

I wish I could get more intraday information than just 5 days, does anyone know how (freely)?

Without it, my conclusions (based on WAY too small of a sample) are that short duration intraday runs have equal proability of favoring the decliner and the increaser, but the decliner will have greater % changes on larger runs and over longer periods of time.

Did I get any of that correct, Mark?

To be honest, I don't know the answer to that question. However, just from an intuitive basis I would have thought while financials were at their low that FAS would be at its low (which it was) and FAZ would be at its peak (which it wasn't). Let me try to put some numbers behind what I'm saying. Looking at FAZ I'll roll it back to its peak that I show. If my numbers are wrong here, someone please correct me. I'm pulling these from Yahoo Finance. I'm showing FAZ traded as high as $173.01 on Nov 20, 2008. On that same date, FAS traded as low as $13.81. From that point, both of these ETF's have fallen a long way. Wouldn't you suspect one to be up while the other is down in roughly proportionate amounts? Yet today we have FAZ at $19.90 (-88.5%) and FAS at $6.44 (-53.4%). I guess in my mind when seeing these numbers is why would anyone be long for these on anything more than a day trade basis? Even in short term trades, wouldn't shorting the other stock be the way to go?

I may be missing something easy here that explains it but I don't see any motivation for being long either of these issues.

Yeah, they're not designed to be held for long periods of time. Decent article here:

http://www.etfexpert.com/etf_expert/2008/0...raged-etfs.html

First of all...is anyone able to actually short FAZ and FAS? My broker screen says it's hard to borrow and orders are getting rejected.And that is probably the rub here. The ones making consistent money on these are the market makers...who can short. I believe it is one reason why it is critical to have a sharpened form of tech analysis and a level of discipline to adhere to it....especially for the short term high risk etf's.

 

[Mark Davis]

I picked off the largest six runs of these two stocks during the last five days. Three times the increasing ETF had a greater % change than the decreasing one. Three times the decreasing ETF had a greater % change. However, in the two largest runs the decreasing stock had much larger changes than the increasing so the five day change favored the declining stock handily (33.1% vs 11.6%). Ten day and 20 day changes also favored the declining stock (55.2 vs 35.8, and 65.8 vs 18.1).

I wish I could get more intraday information than just 5 days, does anyone know how (freely)?

Without it, my conclusions (based on WAY too small of a sample) are that short duration intraday runs have equal proability of favoring the decliner and the increaser, but the decliner will have greater % changes on larger runs and over longer periods of time.

Did I get any of that correct, Mark?

To be honest, I don't know the answer to that question. However, just from an intuitive basis I would have thought while financials were at their low that FAS would be at its low (which it was) and FAZ would be at its peak (which it wasn't). Let me try to put some numbers behind what I'm saying. Looking at FAZ I'll roll it back to its peak that I show. If my numbers are wrong here, someone please correct me. I'm pulling these from Yahoo Finance. I'm showing FAZ traded as high as $173.01 on Nov 20, 2008. On that same date, FAS traded as low as $13.81. From that point, both of these ETF's have fallen a long way. Wouldn't you suspect one to be up while the other is down in roughly proportionate amounts? Yet today we have FAZ at $19.90 (-88.5%) and FAS at $6.44 (-53.4%). I guess in my mind when seeing these numbers is why would anyone be long for these on anything more than a day trade basis? Even in short term trades, wouldn't shorting the other stock be the way to go?

I may be missing something easy here that explains it but I don't see any motivation for being long either of these issues.

Yeah, they're not designed to be held for long periods of time. Decent article here:

http://www.etfexpert.com/etf_expert/2008/0...raged-etfs.html

First of all...is anyone able to actually short FAZ and FAS? My broker screen says it's hard to borrow and orders are getting rejected.And that is probably the rub here. The ones making consistent money on these are the market makers...who can short. I believe it is one reason why it is critical to have a sharpened form of tech analysis and a level of discipline to adhere to it....especially for the short term high risk etf's.

I haven't tried this. I did check on writing calls and there is a market for that. I felt like the out of the money calls on these were way overpriced given their performance.

 

[siffoin]

I picked off the largest six runs of these two stocks during the last five days. Three times the increasing ETF had a greater % change than the decreasing one. Three times the decreasing ETF had a greater % change. However, in the two largest runs the decreasing stock had much larger changes than the increasing so the five day change favored the declining stock handily (33.1% vs 11.6%). Ten day and 20 day changes also favored the declining stock (55.2 vs 35.8, and 65.8 vs 18.1).

I wish I could get more intraday information than just 5 days, does anyone know how (freely)?

Without it, my conclusions (based on WAY too small of a sample) are that short duration intraday runs have equal proability of favoring the decliner and the increaser, but the decliner will have greater % changes on larger runs and over longer periods of time.

Did I get any of that correct, Mark?

To be honest, I don't know the answer to that question. However, just from an intuitive basis I would have thought while financials were at their low that FAS would be at its low (which it was) and FAZ would be at its peak (which it wasn't). Let me try to put some numbers behind what I'm saying. Looking at FAZ I'll roll it back to its peak that I show. If my numbers are wrong here, someone please correct me. I'm pulling these from Yahoo Finance. I'm showing FAZ traded as high as $173.01 on Nov 20, 2008. On that same date, FAS traded as low as $13.81. From that point, both of these ETF's have fallen a long way. Wouldn't you suspect one to be up while the other is down in roughly proportionate amounts? Yet today we have FAZ at $19.90 (-88.5%) and FAS at $6.44 (-53.4%). I guess in my mind when seeing these numbers is why would anyone be long for these on anything more than a day trade basis? Even in short term trades, wouldn't shorting the other stock be the way to go?

I may be missing something easy here that explains it but I don't see any motivation for being long either of these issues.

Yeah, they're not designed to be held for long periods of time. Decent article here:

http://www.etfexpert.com/etf_expert/2008/0...raged-etfs.html

First of all...is anyone able to actually short FAZ and FAS? My broker screen says it's hard to borrow and orders are getting rejected.And that is probably the rub here. The ones making consistent money on these are the market makers...who can short. I believe it is one reason why it is critical to have a sharpened form of tech analysis and a level of discipline to adhere to it....especially for the short term high risk etf's.

I haven't tried this. I did check on writing calls and there is a market for that. I felt like the out of the money calls on these were way overpriced given their performance.

Yea...they'll suck the premium on any OOM straddle here making those a loser play too. Think about it...options on leveraged options. Not a very smart game to play.Don't be surprised to find in a few months 3x etfs...coming to a Barny Frank subcommittee.

 

[eoMMan]

Don't be surprised to find in a few months 3x etfs...coming to a Barny Frank subcommittee.

If they reinstate the uptick rule, I wonder how that will affect all of these crazy short leveraged ETF's.

 

[FavreCo]

It looks to me like FAS tracks the Russell 1000 Financial Services (RGS) Index over time.

http://www.google.com/finance?q=INDEXAMEX:RIFIN.X

Run it from March 6th (virtually the bottom) to now and it is up about 140% vs the index's 40 some %.

However if you run it from Feb. 25th to now it is even with that index.

What does this mean? I got no idea other than if you buy near the low on it, you will rake it in.

 

[Lord of Football]

Bought 325 shares of FAZ at 19.68...I'm begging for more punishment.(looking to unload these quickly...we'll see)

5% loss in 2 hours.I am sitting of FAS believing the Feds will do whatever needed to bail out this sector. I hope you catch a spike on FAZ and get out with a profit.

If you want to get out....Pre-Market: 19.70 +1.06 (5.69%) - Mar 27, 9:01AM EDT

Hoping to sell at the end of the day today...last hour. We'll see if this works.

And out at 20.08...not as much run at the end of the day as I wanted but I'll take a victory with this one any way I can.

 

[TheWalkmen]

I'm thinking about getting into some FAS now hoping for an early and quick upswing Monday.

Anyone else thinking the same?

 

[Buckna]

Another good basic article on cnn about the financial etf's

http://money.cnn.com/2009/03/27/markets/th...rce=yahoo_quote

Even the chief investment officer of Direxion says that the longest you probably should hold on to either of these ETFs is for a day.

"If you are thinking of these funds but are not going to look at them for a month, then don't buy them," O'Neill said. "These are marketed to and created for people that are really actively trading their portfolios. The average turnover for all the shares in the funds is half a day."

Crazy, these ETF's are basically day trading vehicles. If you think the banks will tank today, buy the short in the morning, sell before the close. Otherwise you will probably take it in the teeth holding overnight. They must do some kind of rebalancing of their leverage on a daily basis that causes them to lose value over time.

 

[Random]

Another good basic article on cnn about the financial etf's

http://money.cnn.com/2009/03/27/markets/th...rce=yahoo_quote

Even the chief investment officer of Direxion says that the longest you probably should hold on to either of these ETFs is for a day.

"If you are thinking of these funds but are not going to look at them for a month, then don't buy them," O'Neill said. "These are marketed to and created for people that are really actively trading their portfolios. The average turnover for all the shares in the funds is half a day."

Crazy, these ETF's are basically day trading vehicles. If you think the banks will tank today, buy the short in the morning, sell before the close. Otherwise you will probably take it in the teeth holding overnight. They must do some kind of rebalancing of their leverage on a daily basis that causes them to lose value over time.

So is it fair to assume these will all eventually end up worth $0?

 

[analog_hiss]

First three purchases:

500 FEED @ $1.90

400 GPRE @ $1.64

1000 SIRI @ $.247

I am watching FEED and GPRE daily and hopefully realize some quick gains. I wasn't that serious about SIRI, but while researching last week I took a break and paid for my XM subscription for the coming year. My son asked what their stock was doing we looked and he was "Wow, I could buy shares of that." So we are going 50/50 on that and will hold SIRI for a while.

That's it for me today...going low and slow.

FEED was my play in the stock contest. I bought in with fictional dollars at 1.67. I agree that this company should be HUGE. It's at 2.20 now

Just a heads up...FEED is now trading above the 50 day MA, closing today @ 2.70. Can't help but think if this security passes 3.00, institutions are going to increase holdings...at least I hope.

In for 1,000 shares at 2.53

Hopefully today was just a low volume pullback. Did a little research last night on grain/meat prices in China and came across this report from Zhongpin, Inc. (HOGS, a meat processor in China). This is what I found interesting:

...

'We believe China's pork industry will continue to experience robust growth as the Chinese government is encouraging the modernization of the meat processing industry, improving the hygiene and quality standards, and supporting the transition from traditional wet markets to modern dry markets. Despite the temporary slight decline in pork consumption due to the impact of the worldwide economic slowdown on the Chinese economy, we believe the market fundamentals of the Chinese pork industry continue to remain strong. The Chinese government's RMB 4 trillion economic stimulus package is expected to improve the overall health of the rural economy, which should open additional market opportunities for Zhongpin by fostering the development of value-added agricultural products, modernizing the agricultural industry and increasing the living standards of farmers,' said Mr. Zhu, the Company's CEO.

...

I wish you luck...seems every time I post about FEED, it declines...so I'll shut up for now.

 

[bigfishboy]

Another good basic article on cnn about the financial etf's

http://money.cnn.com/2009/03/27/markets/th...rce=yahoo_quote

Even the chief investment officer of Direxion says that the longest you probably should hold on to either of these ETFs is for a day.

"If you are thinking of these funds but are not going to look at them for a month, then don't buy them," O'Neill said. "These are marketed to and created for people that are really actively trading their portfolios. The average turnover for all the shares in the funds is half a day."

Crazy, these ETF's are basically day trading vehicles. If you think the banks will tank today, buy the short in the morning, sell before the close. Otherwise you will probably take it in the teeth holding overnight. They must do some kind of rebalancing of their leverage on a daily basis that causes them to lose value over time.

So is it fair to assume these will all eventually end up worth $0?

That is my question, also. If what everyone is saying is correct, there has to be a point in time where the value will be zero. How can that be?

 

[TheWalkmen]

So if I placed an order w/Scottrade at 4:17 Eastern and it says it's queued for the next trading day, at what time will my order be fulfilled?

 

[eoMMan]

So if I placed an order w/Scottrade at 4:17 Eastern and it says it's queued for the next trading day, at what time will my order be fulfilled?

Depends. Did you put in a market buy order or a limit buy order? If it's the latter, you'll have to wait until the price hits what you set it for. It was just a regular market order, you should get a an execution e-mail Monday morning.

 

[Lord of Football]

So if I placed an order w/Scottrade at 4:17 Eastern and it says it's queued for the next trading day, at what time will my order be fulfilled?

I'm guessing 9:30 on Monday morning.

 

[siffoin]

Another good basic article on cnn about the financial etf's

http://money.cnn.com/2009/03/27/markets/th...rce=yahoo_quote

Even the chief investment officer of Direxion says that the longest you probably should hold on to either of these ETFs is for a day.

"If you are thinking of these funds but are not going to look at them for a month, then don't buy them," O'Neill said. "These are marketed to and created for people that are really actively trading their portfolios. The average turnover for all the shares in the funds is half a day."

Crazy, these ETF's are basically day trading vehicles. If you think the banks will tank today, buy the short in the morning, sell before the close. Otherwise you will probably take it in the teeth holding overnight. They must do some kind of rebalancing of their leverage on a daily basis that causes them to lose value over time.

So is it fair to assume these will all eventually end up worth $0?

That is my question, also. If what everyone is saying is correct, there has to be a point in time where the value will be zero. How can that be?

Send a note to Bernie Madoff...he can tell you.

 

[TheWalkmen]

So if I placed an order w/Scottrade at 4:17 Eastern and it says it's queued for the next trading day, at what time will my order be fulfilled?

I'm guessing 9:30 on Monday morning.

I guess what I'm confused with is the after-market and before-market trading. Like today, for FAS, the open was 6.38 but the previous close was 6.86. So if FAS opens at 6.50 Monday, at what price would my order be fulfilled considering I put in a market order and it closed at 6.34 today?

 

[Mark Davis]

Another good basic article on cnn about the financial etf's

http://money.cnn.com/2009/03/27/markets/th...rce=yahoo_quote

Even the chief investment officer of Direxion says that the longest you probably should hold on to either of these ETFs is for a day.

"If you are thinking of these funds but are not going to look at them for a month, then don't buy them," O'Neill said. "These are marketed to and created for people that are really actively trading their portfolios. The average turnover for all the shares in the funds is half a day."

Crazy, these ETF's are basically day trading vehicles. If you think the banks will tank today, buy the short in the morning, sell before the close. Otherwise you will probably take it in the teeth holding overnight. They must do some kind of rebalancing of their leverage on a daily basis that causes them to lose value over time.

So is it fair to assume these will all eventually end up worth $0?

That is my question, also. If what everyone is saying is correct, there has to be a point in time where the value will be zero. How can that be?

I don't know. But I also don't know the answer to how the two sides of the financial ETF's could have fallen 55% and 88% over a less than 6 month period. Something just doesn't smell right.

 

[Woozy Foozy]

I don't know. But I also don't know the answer to how the two sides of the financial ETF's could have fallen 55% and 88% over a less than 6 month period. Something just doesn't smell right.

Didn't anyone read the Sack Boy posts?!

 

[Woozy Foozy]

Sorry, is this a recommendation to buy or sell?

Just saying what I see. The trend on FAZ is down and has been so since 3/10 (and the DOW, SP500 and QQQQ is still up). BUT, I'm seeing the first signs that the market may be rolling over. For FAZ, confirmation of the trend flipping from a Sell signal to a Buy signal would occur when the price closes ABOVE $23.80 on a 120 minute chart. Has that happened yet? No.Thus if you were short from 3/10...my "recommendation" would be to remain short. I would not entertain going long FAZ until $23.80 is booked.If you are on the sidelines, I'd stay there. It is likely much of the juice has been squeezed from this bull run, but it is too early to commit to a short position (or in the case of FAZ a long position).

Thanks, siffoin. I listened to your advice and waiting until SKF dropped below $90 yesterday. Made a little over $1000 to spend this weekend.

 

[Ten Yard Fight]

So if I placed an order w/Scottrade at 4:17 Eastern and it says it's queued for the next trading day, at what time will my order be fulfilled?

I'm guessing 9:30 on Monday morning.

I guess what I'm confused with is the after-market and before-market trading. Like today, for FAS, the open was 6.38 but the previous close was 6.86. So if FAS opens at 6.50 Monday, at what price would my order be fulfilled considering I put in a market order and it closed at 6.34 today?

You should get it near the OPEN price today, regardless of whether that is higher or lower.

 

[TheWalkmen]

So if I placed an order w/Scottrade at 4:17 Eastern and it says it's queued for the next trading day, at what time will my order be fulfilled?

I'm guessing 9:30 on Monday morning.

I guess what I'm confused with is the after-market and before-market trading. Like today, for FAS, the open was 6.38 but the previous close was 6.86. So if FAS opens at 6.50 Monday, at what price would my order be fulfilled considering I put in a market order and it closed at 6.34 today?

You should get it near the OPEN price today, regardless of whether that is higher or lower.

Well, I actually just tried to cancel my order since FAS is down huge pre-market. Who is able to trade pre-market? Institutional investors?

 

[FavreCo]

sold the remaining shares of my SCO at $28.85. Took a bath in this, but happy to get out at this price as this thing was at $26+ yesterday. Just about done messing with the market here. I will recap my overall results later today. I hold no stocks at this time.

Joining you on the sidelines at open. I am guessing that this bear market rally is done.

 

[David Dodds]

Dryships in SERIOUS TROUBLES here

http://www.reuters.com/article/governmentF...NG3147120090330

* Says gets going concern notice from auditors

* Notice due to reclassification of $1.8 bln debt as current

* Says may not get covenant waiver

March 30 (Reuters) - Greek dry bulk carrier DryShips Inc (DRYS.O) said it got a going concern notice from its auditors as the company reclassified $1.8 billion of long-term debt as current.

Last week, DryShips said it was in discussions with its some of its lenders concerning current breaches of loan covenants, and pending the outcome of such discussions it has reclassified about $1.8 billion in debt as short-term.

In a regulatory filing with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission, the company said it may not be successful in obtaining covenant waivers or modifications or its lenders may accelerate its indebtedness.

"If our indebtedness is accelerated, it would be very difficult in the current financing environment for us to refinance our debt or obtain additional financing and we could lose our vessels if our lenders foreclose their liens," the company said in a regulatory filing.

Several other dry bulk carriers like Star Bulk Carriers Corp (SBLK.O) and Eagle Bulk Shipping Inc (EGLE.O) have recently obtained covenant waivers in the backdrop of falling freight rates and weak asset values.

However, DryShips said it will generate sufficient cash from operations and proceeds from new equity to satisfy its liquidity needs for the next 12 months.

In the latest fourth quarter, the company posted a $1.02 billion loss, hurt mainly by a goodwill impairment charge, and forecast a loss from the disposal of three capesize newbuildings.

Shares of the company were trading down 38 cents at $5.48 in trading before the bell. The company's stock closed at $5.86 Friday on Nasdaq. (Reporting by Supantha Mukherjee in Bangalore; Editing by Jarshad Kakkrakandy)

 

[David Dodds]

My take on DRYS news is that EXM could be in the exact same position as it is trying to renegotiate debt right now (and have delayed earnings reports because of this). Add in a resign CEO and my guess is there situation is quite similar.

But between ships being retired, new ship orders cancelled and now possible two of the biggest companies in this sector bleeding so much money they could go under....I love this sector longer term. Shipping will pick up and then there will be less ships to handle it all. I think EXM will weather this storm, but think DRYS could actually be in deep trouble. The company to watch going forward coiuld be Diana Shipping (DSX) who has been stockpiling cash for just this situation to develop. I could see them making a play to buy up vessels at huge reductions and catapult themselves to huge marketshare.

With the NASDAQ down and the BDI down again and all of this bad news, I likely am going to buy some of these shippers starting today and sit on them.

 

[David Dodds]

OK I am officially sick here. I just purchased 5,000 shares of EXM at $4.28

 

[David Dodds]

Bought 5,000 FEED at $2.34

 

[David Dodds]

added 10,000 FREE at $1.23

 

[St. Louis Bob]

In 2000 DXO @ $3.01.

Added another 1000 DXO @ $2.88That makes 3000 @ $2.97

 

[Ten Yard Fight]

So if I placed an order w/Scottrade at 4:17 Eastern and it says it's queued for the next trading day, at what time will my order be fulfilled?

I'm guessing 9:30 on Monday morning.

I guess what I'm confused with is the after-market and before-market trading. Like today, for FAS, the open was 6.38 but the previous close was 6.86. So if FAS opens at 6.50 Monday, at what price would my order be fulfilled considering I put in a market order and it closed at 6.34 today?

You should get it near the OPEN price today, regardless of whether that is higher or lower.

Well, I actually just tried to cancel my order since FAS is down huge pre-market. Who is able to trade pre-market? Institutional investors?

It probably would have filled at 5.40, which wouldn't have been that bad.

 

[David Dodds]

added 10,000 more FREE at 1.15

 

[Spark026]

One guy asked about pre-market trading:

It should be an available option with your broker. I'm sure how long before or after the bell will vary, but my discount broker allows me to execute orders 1 hour before and after the bell provided I manually enter the trade in the provided pre-after market fields during the pre-after market hours. Basically, if I set a trade during regular hours it will only execute during regular hours. Trades set during pre-after hours will only execute during those hours, and will also cancel automatically if they don't hit there price(provided its a limit order).

You've probably know this but your trades during regular hour can be "day orders", which cancel at the end of the day if your price doesn't hit or GTC (Good till Cancelled), which will execute any time during regular trading hours day after day until the price is hit or you go back in and manually cancel the order.

PS - On the trade front, if your looking for a short-term trade that also has long-term upside BAC (Bank of Amercia) below 6 and WFC (Wells Fargo) below 14. BAC is down nearly 20% on the day, and relatively a safe buy compared to the likes of Citi. WFC is down 10%, which discounts the recent gains enough to start entering back in. I'd look to enter both around 2:30 EST, and plan to add to your position later this week should this sell-off continue to linger.

Also, I beleive the annoucement of the quarterly earnings good or bad will likely give the bank stocks a boost as uncertainty is a huge factor for the financials current value. The only thing thats going to bring the major banks further down is govt intervention, and I believe BAC and WFC can see the light at the end of that. Citi not so much, still too risky, even if it hits $2 this week.

(Qualifier: Only for people with high risk tolerance for high volitility stocks.)

 

[rpreswood]

FAS is down 20% today. Anyone think this is a Buy at $5/share?

 

[Lord of Football]

FAS is down 20% today. Anyone think this is a Buy at $5/share?

Thinking about sticking my pinky toe in this but I'm a little scared. I'll probably wait until just before the closing bell.

 

[Deadpool]

well, my faz position went profitable today...

i'm going to hold it hoping for some continuation tomorrow...

 

[Ten Yard Fight]

FAS is down 20% today. Anyone think this is a Buy at $5/share?

Thinking about sticking my pinky toe in this but I'm a little scared. I'll probably wait until just before the closing bell.

My guess is that the overall market, including the financials are down for the week. I don't know if I'd jump in FAZ after the 20% run today, but I'd hold it till Friday if I owned it. I'm holding SCO and DXD (Short Dow).